Naruto Multiplier Additions

[Ghostimuscrime]

Hello my friends, I'd like to implement some simple multipliers additions for the verse, I apologize for the size, I'll try my best to make this straightforward
I've broken up the 5 topics in sections so it would be easier for you to respond with their corresponding letters, without further ado let us start

SECTION A

Naruto's Birth of the Ten-Tails' Jinchūriki Key does not have Majestic Attire Susano (MAS)
listed in the profile so it should be added, my proposal for justification are as follows :

higher with Majestic Attire Susano (The Majestic Attire Susano is the strongest War God, putting it above the Ashura Avatar
which is three times stronger than his base due to merging three clones into one avatar) [300 Teratons]

Changing my interpretation to the 2x bare minimum

upto Continent level with Multi Rasengan Barrage (While using the Majestic Attire Susano Naruto creates 9 massive rasengans
from each of the nine tails of the War God to combine together and blast Juubito's shields) [1.8 Petatons]


Naruto obviously can do this with him and Sasuke alone but gave it to them so they can help create an opening for the sword to
stab Obito so they should get the full rating

---

SECTION B
SIX PATHS KEY


Naruto creates 9 rasenshuriken amped by each Bijuu and launches them together at kaguya to form one big powerful destruction,
this should get a 9x multiplier from his base stats


higher with Sage Art Super Tailed Beast Rasenshuriken (Naruto makes 9 rasenshuriken incorporating each of their special chakra
into it and launches them simultaneously at Kaguya to perform one big devastating attack) [7.613 Zettatons]

EDIT : So I forgot to mention that the Rasengan Barrage is accepted as a 2x multiplier for clashing two spirals together, Since Kaguya tanked this with little scratches her profile had the 2x value in her durability section, I'm arguing since it's 9 rasenshurikens the multiplier should change to 9x for Naruto's ap

EDIT 2 : Stepping down and agreeing with Net's interpretation

---

SECTION C
Naruto has these powers even in the New era so these multipliers should also be included in Adult form as well

KCM Base - 1.692 Zettatons (L5B) (2x due to Fused Momo doubled AP)
9 Rasenshuriken Attack - 15.228 Zettatons (L5B) (9x)
MAS (strongest wargod) - 5.076 Zettatons (L5B) (3x) (Above Asura Avatar)
Nonuple Rasengan Barrage from MAS - 45.684 Zettatons (L5B+) (27x) (Makes 9 rasengan from the MAS and combines that attack)

Isshiki dwarfs their power so much that nothing naruto can do would harm him to the point of contemplating death, putting Isshiki
above the L5B+ attack to hopefully get upscaled to Baseline 5B

---

SECTION D
The first gate is accepted to be a 5x speed buff , Kakashi has displayed the ability to use the first gate so his profile should get that
listed as it is a canon ability of his, changes as follows

Key	Base	Upto with First Gate
P1+P2	MHS+ [Mach 7981.5194]	Subrel [Mach 39907.597]
War Arc	Subrel [Mach 39907.597]	Relativistic [Mach 199537.985]
DMS	FTL+ [10c]	FTL+ [50c]
New Era	FTL [9.12c]	FTL+ [45.6c]

Isshiki scales above the 45.6c value due to speed being one of the largest factors in establishing superiority as you can blitz/catch
the enemy off guard. Narusasu were stated to stand a better chance than anyone in Konoha, so MAS should be above 45.6c

---

SECTION E

Preface
Naruto is 10x faster than Base Kashin Koji

1. Baseline for Kashin Koji
In a previous thread, I tried to upgrade KK’s AP, after reviewing counterarguments—particularly from Sparkle, whose points I
acknowledge—I am no longer pursuing that AP upgrade. However, if you check the agreement section there was a somewhat
consensus that Base KK scales to at least 10c, due to his confidence against Delta. --> HERE <-- Even if one argues he would
hax abilities to deal with Delta it still requires 10c speed for combat, this speed will apply to both KK and Base 10% Jigen rather
than the 9.13c they currently have.

---

2. Isshiki’s Transformation and the 10x Multiplier

In Chapter 48, Upon Isshiki’s transformation, KK explicitly observes that Isshiki’s power has increased by an “order of magnitude”
beyond Jigen’s when noting it's instantaneous shrinking. The Japanese text uses the term Keta Chigai (ケタ違い), directly meaning
a “digit difference” or “order of magnitude difference. “Keta” represents a positional digit (like tens, hundreds, thousands) rather
than a loose or undefined increase paired with Chigai (違い) meaning difference, most often used to indicate a multiplication by 10
when moving from one “digit” level to the next.

Due to meaning “Digit Difference” in its literal sense this phrase is mathematically grounded, not merely rhetorical like the higher level
it has an established connotation as a 10x increase. (For qualitative increase the accurate word would instead be Dan Chigai [段違い]
meaning level difference)

So the accurate translation would be

“In the blink of an eye, it’s shrinking…! Compared to the time of Jigen, the power is of a completely different magnitude…!!”

This is why, in various manga contexts, “keta chigai” denotes a clear multiplier. A few examples of this phrase has been used to upgrade
off a few digits in the wiki previously are, Cero Oscura from BLEACH and Naruto God Tier Speed upgrades both make use of this phrase to denote
their digit differences

The VIZ English translation softens this to “another level,” which downplays the significance of the original language. “Another level” while
implying a qualitative improvement fitting for Dan Chigai [段違い] , lacks the numerical weight of “Keta Chigai” (ケタ違い) and as a result,
misrepresents the clear quantitative leap implied in the original Japanese.

Since KK said this in reference to how instantaneous the jutsu was it is referring to the shrinking speed. Thus, if Base Jigen’s jutsu speed is
set at 10c, Isshiki’s transformation—bearing this explicitly stated “keta chigai”—places his jutsu speed at a logical 100c.

---

3. Naruto’s Scaling to Isshiki’s Jutsu Speed:
Naruto’s combat performance surpasses Isshiki in everything speed wise


-Blitzed Isshiki many times, not allowing him to react
-Intercepted the microscopic high speed rods and is able to go back and pick one up and strike more of them down before they can hit him
-He can Intercept the rods before they even get to expand to full size (He was so fast,some of them were still in the process of expanding)
-His Supermassive Rasengan was so fast Isshiki’s shrinking speed was not fast enough to shrink the Jutsu in time and as a result was blastedwith the Jutsu

---

Changes:

Kashin Koji :
FTL+ was about to take down Delta | Higher with Sage Mode [10c, higher]

Isshiki :
FTL+ Superior to Jigen, Naruto, Sasuke and everyone in Konoha. MFTL with Shinjutsu (Kashin Koji noted the speed of Isshiki’s Shinjutsu
was an order of magnitude superior to Jigen’s when referring to it’s instantaneous speed) [45.6c, 100c]

Naruto :
FTL (TL) | FTL+ (Base and KCM) | higher with MAS (Stated that Naruto and Sasuke are the only two shinobi capable of combating Isshiki
putting them above first gate Kakashi | MFTL with Baryon Mode (Was too fast for Isshiki’s Shinjutsu to keep up) [9.13c, 10c, 45.6c, 100c]


Acknowledgments
Lastly I would like to give credits to my friend DJ Talks for identifying the original Japanese term in the raws, which clarified the
mistranslation from VIZ’s “another level” to the more precise “10x.”


All that being said thank you for your patience and let's hope this is evaluated smoothly

Agree :
A :
B :
C :
D : Suigetsuhyugs, KaydeeX, Kidkinsey, karo_senpaii, Daoist_Pepe, MasqueTLDF, Stryker861, Apollonir.Scale,

Robo432343, Planck69, LephyrTheRevanchist (Kakashi Upgrades Only),DarkDragonMedeus, LordGriffin1000 (Kakashi Upgrades Only)​

E : Suigetsuhyugs, karo_senpaii, Daoist_Pepe, MasqueTLDF,

Apollonir.Scale, Stryker861, LephyrTheRevanchist, DarkDragonMedeus, UchihaSlayer96 (Section E, the multiplier section), LordGriffin1000 ​

​

---

Disagree :

A : KaydeeX, LordTracer, LephyrTheRevanchist, DarkDragonMedeus, UchihaSlayer96​

B : KaydeeX, LephyrTheRevanchist, DarkDragonMedeus​

C : KaydeeX, LephyrTheRevanchist, DarkDragonMedeus, UchihaSlayer96​

D: LephyrTheRevanchist (Isshiki >1GK), Damage3245 (Isshiki>1GK), LordGriffin1000 (Isshiki>1GK), UchihaSlayer96 (Isshiki>1GK)
E:

Damage3245 (Only KK~Delta bit)​

---

Neutral :

Damage3245 (Section E, the multiplier section)​

[Mode Vote = ITALIC]

 

[DavidTPPM]

Multipliers? In my Naruto?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Multipliers? In my Naruto?

Dare I say Naruto deserves it more than anyone

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I'm actually fine with E section, the D section also seems fine it's mostly already accepted anyways, but a multiplier for every rasengan? I mean the rasengans using bijuu chakra aren't stated to be all on equal level even more so when we know the bijuu are clearly not at all equals.
Naruto should get 1000 multiplers because he can spam clones with rasengan

 

[KaydeeX]

Well composed CRT
As for the AP multipliers given, they are not really how it works given the criteria here, since it’s an attack fired simultaneously not concurrently so i’m not going to address that since it’s kind of fundamentally flawed.
The kakashi section seems fine atleast

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I'm actually fine with E section, the D section also seems fine it's mostly already accepted anyways, but a multiplier for every rasengan? I mean the rasengans using bijuu chakra aren't stated to be all on equal level even more so when we know the bijuu are clearly not at all equals.
Naruto should get 1000 multiplers because he can spam clones with rasengan

To my knowledge Naruto only adds the special traits of each Bijuu chakra to the rasenshurikens to amplify their effect, the Base AP should be equal since it says Naruto needed clones to make this implying all of them are the same level

Well composed CRT
As for the AP multipliers given, they are not really how it works given the criteria here, since it’s an attack fired simultaneously not concurrently so i’m not going to address that since it’s kind of fundamentally flawed.
The kakashi section seems fine atleast

Alright Thank you,

Isn't the concurrently the same as simultaneously? for the Juubito one they did show each individual rasengan merge when blasting the shields so I thought that should qualify as a multiplier, I can understand your contention for the multi bijuu rasenshuriken tho

 

[karo_senpaii]

Wow nice. At first glance I'm fine with section D. E looks nice but will look into it more..section A to C i have to look at it more but i already disagree with a couple of things. For one Asura mode doesn't even exist at that stage

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Wow nice. At first glance I'm fine with section D. E looks nice but will look into it more..section A to C i have to look at it more but i already disagree with a couple of things. For one Asura mode doesn't even exist at that stage

Well the transformation of both are more or less a few chapters apart, I would like to think the avatars would be thought of by Kishi and Naruto and Sasuke combining together should logically place them many times above their attack variations anyway

Without that the chain would change to
MAS (at least 2x) - 200 TT (L6B)
rasengan barrage - 1.8 PT (6A)

 

[Kidkinsey]

Kakashi stuff works perfectly fine
The ashura avatar works too
The rasen shuriken stuff I'm not 100% sure if it'll qualify as a multiplier but since it's 9x the power it should atleast have that listed alongside it

 

[karo_senpaii]

Well the transformation of both are more or less a few chapters apart, I would like to think the avatars would be thought of by Kishi and Naruto and Sasuke combining together should logically place them many times above their attack variations anyway

Without that the chain would change to
MAS (at least 2x) - 200 TT (L6B)
rasengan barrage - 1.8 PT (6A)

Naruto just learnt to use sage mode combined with kurama like 2 chapters prior. I don't think it makes sense for him to also know how to send a clone to gather nature energy, fuse 3 shadow clones together and take it all.
Still looking at the rasengan barrage

 

[Planck69]

First Gate and Chakra Avatar multipliers seem fine. The others don't really seem to be proper multipliers so I'm neutral to them.

 

[Damage3245]

higher with Majestic Attire Susano (The Majestic Attire Susano is the strongest War God, putting it above the Ashura Avatar
which is three times stronger than his base due to merging three clones into one avatar) [300 Teratons]

This doesn't really make a lot of sense. That the combination of Naruto and Sasuke combining their jutsu together is stronger than the result of Naruto combining himself with two of his clones.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

First Gate and Chakra Avatar multipliers seem fine. The others don't really seem to be proper multipliers so I'm neutral to them.

What do you think of the final one? It's a stated increase instead of the inferred multipliers

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Only Sections D and E (as long as the translation for this one is correct) seem legit here.

 

[JohnHendrix212]

Honestly, Naruto's Avatar merging with two clone avatars and getting 3x boost is bogus as all hell, and ignores the fact that Shadow Clone divides his chakra evenly, so merging would basically just return his chakra back to normal.

It's clear that the merging of the Avatars weren't supposed to be for a power boost, because the Nature Amp was for that. The merging was done so Naruto's Avatar could stabilise both Ultra Rasenshurikens using three arms each, because a single arm couldn't do it.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Honestly, Naruto's Avatar merging with two clone avatars and getting 3x boost is bogus as all hell, and ignores the fact that Shadow Clone as divides his chakra evenly, so merging would basically just return his chakra back to normal.

It's clear that the merging of the Avatars weren't supposed to be for a power boost, because the Nature Amp was for that. The merging was done so Naruto's Avatar could stabilise both Ultra Rasenshurikens using three arms each, because a single arm couldn't do it.

It would also be against our current multiplier standards as well:

Multipliers come from direct statements instead of being reasoned from something else. That means, for example, that if a verse has powerlevels or statistics, the doubling of a statistic or power level should not be concluded to correspond to the power of the character doubling, unless it is clearly specified to work that way.

We need a proper statement saying his power triplicates.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

This doesn't really make a lot of sense. That the combination of Naruto and Sasuke combining their jutsu together is stronger than the result of Naruto combining himself with two of his clones.

Well that was accepted for the New Era MAS multipliers and it's lore accurate for Naruto and Sasuke together be far stronger than 3x naruto since they're mixing their powers instead of regular addition, it's lore accuate given this statement

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Honestly, Naruto's Avatar merging with two clone avatars and getting 3x boost is bogus as all hell, and ignores the fact that Shadow Clone divides his chakra evenly, so merging would basically just return his chakra back to normal.

It's clear that the merging of the Avatars weren't supposed to be for a power boost, because the Nature Amp was for that. The merging was done so Naruto's Avatar could stabilise both Ultra Rasenshurikens using three arms each, because a single arm couldn't do it.

The Ashura Avatar was already accepted as a 3x multiplier, the AP of clones generally remain the same and it would be redundant to merge avatars simply to carry two attacks

It would also be against our current multiplier standards as well:

We need a proper statement saying his power triplicates.

Well Rasengan Barrage is accepted as a 2x multiplier
It involves the rasengan clashing together

The Juubito one has the same effect where many rasengan clash and merge with each other (I get your contentions with the rasenshuriken tho)

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

One thing I forgot to add

for SECTION B
It was accepted in Kaguya's Profile durability section
Her durability scaled to 2x Narutos ap off of tanking the sage art rasenshuriken
Since the rasengan barrage statement stating two rasengan clashing together is a 2x+ buff she was given 2x the durability of naruto
I'm arguing since it's already accepted as a multiplier it should get the 9x treatment since 9 rasenshuriken are fired instead of the two from the databook

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Well Rasengan Barrage is accepted as a 2x multiplier
It involves the rasengan clashing together

The Juubito one has the same effect where many rasengan clash and merge with each other (I get your contentions with the rasenshuriken tho)

Rasengan Barrage, if you notice, has an actual statement. "Power increases more than twice"

Find a similar statement for the Asura Avatar

-

One thing I forgot to add

for SECTION B
It was accepted in Kaguya's Profile durability section
Her durability scaled to 2x Narutos ap off of tanking the sage art rasenshuriken
Since the rasengan barrage statement stating two rasengan clashing together is a 2x+ buff she was given 2x the durability of naruto
I'm arguing since it's already accepted as a multiplier it should get the 9x treatment since 9 rasenshuriken are fired instead of the two from the databook

Because the Rasenshuriken as a technique scales above the barrage, that has an actual statement. Find a statement for the multiple Rasenshurikens if you want to apply a multiplier to being hit by multiple of them.

-

Only Sections D and E (as long as the translation for this one is correct) seem legit here.

Actually, re-reading OP.

I disagree with scaling Isshiki to a hypothetical First Gate Kakashi, unless you can show he actually used the technique against him.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Rasengan Barrage, if you notice, has an actual statement. "Power increases more than twice"

Find a similar statement for the Asura Avatar

But it's already on their profiles? I'm not arguing it should be listed because it's already there
the new era MAS is already scaled above it, I was arguing the old war arc MAS should as well

Because the Rasenshuriken as a technique scales above the barrage, that has an actual statement. Find a statement for the multiple Rasenshurikens if you want to apply a multiplier to being hit by multiple of them.

Well I would argue that since the rasenshuriken is a variant of the rasengan and we know 2 rasengan clashing together gives a more than 2x increase, so 9 of them clashing together in Kaguya's face would be a 9x multiplier, listing a multiplier for each attack variant is rather redundant since we know how the multiplication works

It wasn't stated the sage art multi bijuu rasenshuriken is above rasengan barrage, it just makes use of the same rule as one of the variants

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

But it's already on their profiles? I'm not arguing it should be listed because it's already there
the new era MAS is already scaled above it, I was arguing the old war arc MAS should as well

Gotta fix them issues then, because as of now, I wouldn't scale it at all considering the proof of it isn't even usable per current standards

Well I would argue that since the rasenshuriken is a variant of the rasengan and we know 2 rasengan clashing together gives a more than 2x increase, so 9 of them clashing together in Kaguya's face would be a 9x multiplier, listing a multiplier for each attack variant is rather redundant since we know how the multiplication works

It wasn't stated the sage art multi bijuu rasenshuriken is above rasengan barrage, it just makes use of the same rule as one of the variants

The problem is

We need the statement, boss

 

[JohnHendrix212]

I disagree with scaling Isshiki to a hypothetical First Gate Kakashi, unless you can show he actually used the technique against him.

The premise is that Naruto and Sasuke are the ones who has the most chances in beating Isshiki. Hence, they're faster than all of Konoha, including Kakashi and his techniques. Isshiki overwhelmed Naruto and Sasuke with speed, which means he scales over the hypothetical First Gate Kakashi.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

The premise is that Naruto and Sasuke are the ones who has the most chances in beating Isshiki. Hence, they're faster than all of Konoha, including Kakashi and his techniques. Isshiki overwhelmed Naruto and Sasuke with speed, which means he scales over the hypthetical First Gate Kakashi.

Nah, we need something concrete to scale

 

[Damage3245]

One thing I forgot to add

for SECTION B
It was accepted in Kaguya's Profile durability section
Her durability scaled to 2x Narutos ap off of tanking the sage art rasenshuriken
Since the rasengan barrage statement stating two rasengan clashing together is a 2x+ buff she was given 2x the durability of naruto
I'm arguing since it's already accepted as a multiplier it should get the 9x treatment since 9 rasenshuriken are fired instead of the two from the databook

You're arguing that Kaguya is 9x more durable than Naruto's AP? But Naruto was able to rip off one of her arms by himself.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Gotta fix them issues then, because as of now, I wouldn't scale it at all considering the proof of it isn't even usable per current standards


The problem is

We need the statement, boss

but we already have a statement, we know what type of attacks serve as multipliers, this time naruto makes use of more numbers of them

Nah, we need something concrete to scale

the wiki always had scaled characters above hypothetical match ups tho?
and Kakashi is already considered too trivial for the cast to even be brought against Momoshiki, so by occams razor any form of Kakashi should be inferior to them anyway
I don't see the need to show everything explicitly

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

You're arguing that Kaguya is 9x more durable than Naruto's AP? But Naruto was able to rip off one of her arms by himself.

no, Kaguya can stay as she is (the volume she tanks compared to the full blast is bad for upgrading anyways)
I'm saying naruto should get the 7ZT value in his profile for this particular attack combo

 

[KaydeeX]

Nah, we need something concrete to scale

requiring a tangible evidence to "scale" would be appropriate solely in the context of a counterargument that directly challenges the proposed premise thereby necessitating a comparative analysis or evidentiary validation. the proposed evidence or arguments seems fine enough

 

[KaydeeX]

oh and i agree with option D so far. E seems like a stretch

 

[Daoist_Pepe]

You're arguing that Kaguya is 9x more durable than Naruto's AP? But Naruto was able to rip off one of her arms by himself.

Just stop man, it is already established how emotions amp characters in Naruto.

even higher with Empowerment (After becoming enraged at Black Zetsu for insulting Obito, Naruto uses a chakra arm to claw off Kaguya's arm[68]),

I agree with with only D and E

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

oh and i agree with option D so far. E seems like a stretch

Can you tell me your contentions with E?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

requiring a tangible evidence to "scale" would be appropriate solely in the context of a counterargument that directly challenges the proposed premise thereby necessitating a comparative analysis or evidentiary validation. the proposed evidence or arguments seems fine enough

"There's no feat. But there's no evidence the feat wouldn't exist, tho!"

Yeah, no.

 

[KaydeeX]

"There's no feat. But there's no evidence the feat wouldn't exist, tho!"

Yeah, no.

Except there is a statement supporting that the feat could exist. False equivalence

 

[Sasukesama0492]

I agree

 

[Damage3245]

I fully disagree with scaling over hypothetical First Gate Kakashi here for speed. Kakashi almost never uses the First Gate, and never in an actual significant battle scene.

 

[Digital_Franz]

I completely disagree with Isshiki's transformation and the Speed Stuff. There's no indication that he's 10x faster. All that's said is that he's so much more powerful that in the blink of an eye he dispelled the jutsu. When power is multiplied, it doesn't apply to Speed until it's stated.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I fully disagree with scaling over hypothetical First Gate Kakashi here for speed. Kakashi almost never uses the First Gate, and never in an actual significant battle scene.

I mean, Roshi never uses his Moon level Kamehameha in for combat purposes either but db characters still receive scaling above them due to hypothetical superiority

What do you think of the final section

 

[Damage3245]

I mean, Roshi never uses his Moon level Kamehameha in for combat purposes either but db characters still receive scaling above them due to hypothetical superiority

What do you think of the final section

Section E? I'm still mulling it over.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I completely disagree with Isshiki's transformation and the Speed Stuff. There's no indication that he's 10x faster. All that's said is that he's so much more powerful that in the blink of an eye he dispelled the jutsu. When power is multiplied, it doesn't apply to Speed until it's stated.

no one is arguing "since power is increased speed should too" my argument said the speed is directly stated to be 10x superior
we know why he said its 10x superior and that is after noting the instantaneous speed, not his physical power, not his chakra levels, simply the shrinking's speed
there is absolutely no room for you to to interpret them talking about a different statistic so you are wrong.

 

[Digital_Franz]

no one is arguing "since power is increased speed should too" my argument said the speed is directly stated to be 10x superior
we know why he said its 10x superior and that is after noting the instantaneous speed, not his physical power, not his chakra levels, simply the shrinking's speed
there is absolutely no room for you to to interpret them talking about a different statistic so you are wrong.

When it was Jigen, he didn't have a problem with Speed but with absorption power. He couldn't absorb the flames. As soon as he transformed and returned to his original form, he instantly absorbed the flames. I don't consider this a Speed feat but uh, everyone has their own interpretation I suppose.