Naruto Lightning Speed + Senjutsu

[Damage3245]

I mean, him being old doesn't mean he's reliable. But absolutely nothing in the text or situation implies that he was lying about the lightning's speed.

I agree. I don't think he's lying. I just don't think we can use his statement to reliably say that Kirin is faster than natural lightning.

> u really didn't read manga did u? its cumulonimbus cloud to ground

'Cloud to ground' isn't mentioned anywhere.

 

[Rocker1189]

So you're saying Konohamaru and Kage Naruto can make a rasengan each using 10% of their chakra and stalemate each other?

And are you also saying use of more chakra only increases strength, not speed?

Obviously it depends on konohamaru's control of chakra and kage Naruto and obviously not. If you said current konohamaru and kid or even teenage Naruto, without any transformations I would say yes.

Naruto's chakra control is much mich better than Konohamaru's.

I am saying depending on the technique, yes, speed generally is not affected by chakra amount unless the point of the jutsu(8 gates) is to increase speed.

 

[Aernasilver]

Well, to my understanding Kirin is naturally cloud to ground lightning. So I don't see why it should be slower or faster than what we use here.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I just don't think we can use his statement to reliably say that Kirin is faster than natural lightning.

But that's the thing damage, it isn't faster than natural lightning. Its faster than the accepted medium speed of lightning used on this site.

The speed and current during the final stages of the lightning stepped leader were determined from features of the electric field waveform. The average speed of the leader tip was found below the height where dE/dt was zero for close lightning. This height was in the range 0.6-2.0 km for flashes at the distances considered here, 3.6-5.7 km. For 10 stepped leaders observed near Tampa, Florida, the mean final one-dimensional speed was 4.4×10^5 m/s, the standard deviation was 3.8×10^5 m/s, and the range was 1.0-14×10^5 m/s. These speeds are consistent with other stepped leader speeds reported in the literature that were found using optical techniques.

Source

Using the main wiki source the results is that lightning has a variable speed of 100,000 m/s and 1,400,000 m/s. I've seen reports that get lightning up to 2,400,000 m/s as well. Zetsu's lightning being 880,000 m/s or 1,000,000 m/s is something lightning IRL can and has been.

 

[Omimi]

I mean, him being old doesn't mean he's reliable. But absolutely nothing in the text or situation implies that he was lying about the lightning's speed.

yes but we have 0 evidence that he knows nothing and not reliable

 

[Rocker1189]

I agree. I don't think he's lying. I just don't think we can use his statement to reliably say that Kirin is faster than natural lightning.

> u really didn't read manga did u? its cumulonimbus cloud to ground

'Cloud to ground' isn't mentioned anywhere.

We dont need a statement to say it is faster than normal lightning when it is displayed. And it is certainly implied to be faster when it used up and entire storm cloud for 1 blast.

that does not matter when Kirin is indeed cloud to ground.

 

[Qawsedf234]

yes but we have 0 evidence that he knows nothing and not reliable

I feel like you must've stopped reading my comment after the first sentence as my next six words say exactly that.

 

[AstralKing7]

@AstralKing7;the argument that Sasuke is just being cocky is false because Black Zetsu agrees with him. Even in his assessment he thinks it would be impossible for someone to evade.

At that moment it was Itachi who was half blind and low on chakra and even Zetsu started acknowledging that something was wrong with Itachis body physically. Sasuke also knew he was going blind because Itachi told him that to his face. But guess what? Itachi blocked the attack so you know what that means. Sasuke was exaggerating hard. You can still think your right while exaggerating which is what Sasuke was doing. He thought it was the truth but it ended up not being so

 

[BlackeJan]

People saying he's a liar does confuse me since there's absolutely nothing implying such a thing. But saying it faster than lightning when the distance between the hideout and the thunderbolt is unknown is something I disagree with (also Sasuke moved Kirin a bit closer before it was fired anyways).

Sorry but that's like saying that all of DBZ characters laser attacks are SoL lasers can fit SoL. Doesn't matter, it's said it's faster then any average lighting and AGAIN this is anime, why try to apply logic like that to something with super powers?

 

[Rocker1189]

Well, to my understanding Kirin is naturally cloud to ground lightning. So I don't see why it should be slower or faster than what we use here.

It has been shown to be faster and it is within lightning speeds so there is indeed no issue. Just random headcanon being brought up.

 

[Omimi]

also why would bz lying to himself?

its fiction and we should takewhat writer give us .

wiki standard or anyone opinion is not over the info manga gave us

so dont use wiki standard/our opinion over manga info

 

[Damage3245]

Sorry but that's like saying that all of DBZ characters laser attacks are SoL lasers can fit SoL. Doesn't matter, it's said it's faster then any average lighting and AGAIN this is anime, why try to apply logic like that to something with super powers?

Kirin isn't directly stated to be faster than average lightning.

 

[Jvando]

There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that Zetsu was lying about that statement unless you want to provide some evidence instead of merely stating he was. Also, as pointed out, the time frame (1/1000) could literally mean only one of two things:

1) To the target

2) or two the ground

You don't need to make some incredible leap in logic or some exaggerated assumptions to come to this logical conclusion. I'm sure we use this kind of logic in a majority of cases.

 

[Rocker1189]

https://imgur.com/a/j7g9pF0 used multiple highlights incase we are blind here.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Sorry but that's like saying that all of DBZ characters laser attacks are SoL lasers can fit SoL. Doesn't matter, it's said it's faster then any average lighting and AGAIN this is anime, why try to apply logic like that to something with super powers?

I changed my mind in a comment afterwards and made multiple comments about how the current rating is fine. Its faster than the accepted average speed of lightning, but is still within the IRL realistic bounds of lightning. I think its fine to keep.

Also the idea that you can't apply logic to something on a site trying to categorize stuff with hard numbers seems like a self-defeating mind set to have.

 

[Rocker1189]

Kirin isn't directly stated to be faster than average lightning.

It does not need to be directly stated, people destroy cities and get country level calcs from it. Kirin is no different.

 

[Omimi]

I feel like you must've stopped reading my comment after the first sentence as my next six words say exactly that.

lol u are right

 

[Damage3245]

@Rocker; Cumulonimbus clouds can form as low as 200 m.

Claiming that Black Zetsu was specifically referring the clouds that Sasuke created when he said 'lightning travels at 1/1000 of a second' is a big assumption.

 

[AstralKing7]

The obvious solution there is to not assume that Kakuzu's False Darkness actually travels at lightning speed.

All the databook says is that the lightning bolts are transformed into a spearlike form, and that it travels at high speed.

EDIT: Anyway, this thread is primarily about Kirin and Senjutsu-based Lightning techniques.


Obvious solution? You mean the obvious downplay option. That dudes lightning met all the standards of real lightning except one and was accepted plus it's even said to travel in the air at high speeds but you wanna say it's not lightning speed with no further proof explaining yourself? Good one damage. Assumptions need to be explained

 

[Rocker1189]

@Rocker; Cumulonimbus clouds can form as low as 200 m.
Claiming that Black Zetsu was specifically referring the clouds that Sasuke created when he said 'lightning travels at 1/1000 of a second' is a big assumption.

And Kirin did noto form that low, point less comment. my point is it is a cumulonimbus.

It is not a big assumption at all considering that Zetsu specifically talked about sasuke's move and their points coincide. Your bias against Naruto is showing very very hard.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'd recommend that people stop being so aggressive. This thread is getting heated and I don't think anyone would like it to be preemptively closed due to toxicity.

 

[Damage3245]

And Kirin did noto form that low, point less comment. my point is it is a cumulonimbus.

It is not a big assumption at all considering that Zetsu specifically talked about sasuke's move and their points coincide. Your bias against Naruto is showing very very hard.

So you're assuming that Zetsu calculated how high the clouds were above the ground, assumed a speed of lightning, and then calculated that it would take that lightning exactly 1/1000 of a second to reach the ground from that height.

Call me biased all you want, but this just seems a bit much to me.

 

[Omimi]

> u really didn't read manga did u? its cumulonimbus cloud to ground

'Cloud to ground' isn't mentioned anywhere.

krirn was produce by cumulonimbus cloud?

height is given in manga

 

[Rocker1189]

So you're assuming that Zetsu calculated how high the clouds were above the ground, assumed a speed of lightning, and then calculated that it would take that lightning exactly 1/1000 of a second to reach the ground from that height.

Call me biased all you want, but this just seems a bit much to me.

Black zetsu is nearly an author's mouthpiece to the level of kakashi when analyzing jutsu. Maybe not exactly, but around the same point.

Everything is a bit much for you when regarding Naruto.

 

[Callsign_Castle]

The height of Sasuke's clouds were never given.

 

[Aernasilver]

Damage is known for trying to keep things as accurate as possible so attacking him or calling him bias is a bit much.

 

[Rocker1189]

The height of Sasuke's clouds were never given.

So we calc it, like we do eveything. The height of SK palace is never given either.

 

[AstralKing7]

So you're assuming that Zetsu calculated how high the clouds were above the ground, assumed a speed of lightning, and then calculated that it would take that lightning exactly 1/1000 of a second to reach the ground from that height.

Call me biased all you want, but this just seems a bit much to me.


Kishi set up the fight to be that way with the context of Zetsus words.

 

[Rocker1189]

Damage is known for trying to keep things as accurate as possible so attacking him or calling him bias is a bit much.

apart from in Naruto, I am recounting my own observations not others.

His so called non bias is laughable to me when he uses minimum mountain heights for Naruto calcs based on assumptions himself.

 

[BlackeJan]

Damage is known for trying to keep things as accurate as possible so attacking him or calling him bias is a bit much.

We love @Damage trust me we do....though saying accurate can be faulty when he even agree to a joke calc blog made by @Callsign himself

 

[Omimi]

@Rocker; Cumulonimbus clouds can form as low as 200 m.

Cumulonimbus clouds can form as high as 4000m

 

[Jvando]

So you're assuming that Zetsu calculated how high the clouds were above the ground, assumed a speed of lightning, and then calculated that it would take that lightning exactly 1/1000 of a second to reach the ground from that height.

Call me biased all you want, but this just seems a bit much to me.

I mean, didn't Zetsu plan every crappy event that happened in the story over the millennia including all the Shinobi World Wars? With his knowledge and intellect, sure, why wouldn't the be able to do all that?

 

[Omimi]

The height of Sasuke's clouds were never given.

cumulonimbus cloud

 

[Qawsedf234]

cumulonimbus cloud

That isn't a height, just a cloud type.

But on topic I think its fine to use the speed rating. Can't add much more than that.

Again however, I would recommend that people stop dog-piling on Damage. It just derails and makes everyone look worse.

 

[Callsign_Castle]

I mean, didn't Zetsu plan every crappy event that happened in the story over the millennia including all the Shinobi World Wars? With his knowledge and intellect, sure, why wouldn't the be able to do all that?

Zetsu manipulated the descendants of Ashura and Indra, as well as edited the tablet to manipulate the Uchiha, and tried to get descendants to awaken the rinnegan. That's an entirely different category than "general facts about planet Earth".

 

[Rocker1189]

Qawsedf234 wrote
Again however, I would recommend that people stop dog-piling on Damage. It just derails and makes everyone look worse.

right well, so I dont say anything stupid I guess I am getting off the thread for now to cool off.

 

[AstralKing7]

General facts about earth>

Actually being right about general facts about earth

ƒñ¿ƒÿæthe point of this thread is?

 

[Damage3245]

Zetsu's Statement: "The speed of lightning is 1/1000 of a second... it's faster than sound!"

People's Interpretatio: "The lightning from these specific clouds formed on the spot by Sasuke can travel to the ground in exactly 1/1000 of a second."

Why should we go with that intrepretation exactly? When Black Zetsu isn't explicitely referring to these clouds, or the lightning travelling to the ground from these clouds?

 

[AstralKing7]

I think every Kirin calc explains why we use cumulonimbus cloud and it's hight.

Like seriously thunder clouds

 

[Jvando]

Zetsu's Statement: "The speed of lightning is 1/1000 of a second... it's faster than sound!"

People's Interpretatio: "The lightning from these specific clouds formed on the spot by Sasuke can travel to the ground in exactly 1/1000 of a second."

Why should we go with that intrepretation exactly? When Black Zetsu isn't explicitely referring to these clouds, or the lightning travelling to the ground from these clouds?

I suppose just some basic reasoning. There is nothing else that Zetsu could have meant aside from the amount of time it takes for the lightning bolt to hit the target or the ground. You would need a greater leap in logic to assume he meant something completely different.