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Naruto FTL downgrade.

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CloverDragon03 said:
I'd recommend including the image in your OP to explain your reasoning behind the distance you used for Naruto's movement. Just for those that don't have the full context
Click to expand...
I think they need to make their px image bigger, the reasoning why the distance was used is the angular direction they used for Naruto's face. I think a more accurate version of this would be to take his head height and consider a 45º movement.
 
The_Yellow_Topaz said:
I think they need to make their px image bigger, the reasoning why the distance was used is the angular direction they used for Naruto's face. I think a more accurate version of this would be to take his head height and consider a 45º movement.
Click to expand...
Added it as another end.
 
Can't you just base it on how much Naruto moved his head after the beam made contact with the staff, and do some stuff with distance, SoL and frames? Also, he didn't just move his head; his body nearly rotated 90 degrees. Simply turning your head isn't dodging an attack going to your cranium unless they're aiming at your eye or ear. Madara was dead center.
 
Golden_Void said:
Can't you just base it on how much Naruto moved his head after the beam made contact with the staff, and do some stuff with distance, SoL and frames?
Click to expand...
Madara bent his head, and thus made the laser swing around, so it's not known if the staff was hit due to Naruto dodging or that
Golden_Void said:
Also, he didn't just move his head; his body nearly rotated 90 degrees.
Click to expand...
Not for a usable calc, no. The laser was 17cm away, tilting your head 45 damn degrees wouldn't be possible with just his neck, but the body movement was proportional to the head movement so there's no need to calc that, it's not like we're saying his body wasn't moving along with it. Unless you're trying to tell me 45º angular movement away from the laser isn't enough to get off it's tracks.
 
The 45 degree movement in and of itself is flawed because it falls under the same premise as the op. We see he moves 45 degrees after the laser passes his head, so it would also be a highball of sorts.
 
The_Yellow_Topaz said:
Madara bent his head, and thus made the laser swing around, so it's not known if the staff was hit due to Naruto dodging or that

Not for a usable calc, no. The laser was 17cm away, tilting your head 45 damn degrees wouldn't be possible with just his neck, but the body movement was proportional to the head movement so there's no need to calc that, it's not like we're saying his body wasn't moving along with it. Unless you're trying to tell me 45º angular movement away from the laser isn't enough to get off it's tracks.
Click to expand...
He didn't tilt his head; he ducked down diagonally. Point being - Naruto had to bend his torso and duck his head down to dodge the beam; he didn't just rotate 45 degrees. The total distance moved should be considered for the feat to be valid, among OP's concerns.
 
The_Yellow_Topaz said:
I love how there are two pages of comments and NONE OF THEM are discussing the OP, arguing or anything else. It's ridiculous.

I agree with the CRT, and to those who don't understand the problem:

  • The original calculation measures how far away Lightfang is from Naruto's face. (17cm)
  • Then, it measures how much Naruto's head moved in the last frame.
  • The problem arrives when you consider the frame used to measure Naruto's movement we can see the laser crossed not only the originally measured 17cm, but it goes off-screen.
  • The original calculation compares this head movement to the original 17cm, which is irrefutably incorrect because we see Lightfang travelling further than 17cm in the same shot.
That means we either go frame by frame and stop once Lightfang is right above Naruto's torso, meaning a shorter head movement. Or, we keep the head movement, but measure the actual distance travelled by the light (which should not be the option picked because it goes off screen, and we can't measure it to it's full extent). The low end would be to masure the minimum distance Naruto would need to move in order to not get hit.

Either way, this results in a downgrade. I hope this made it easier for people to understand how this calc is fundamentally flawed in it's core, just a few adjustments would suffice, it's not like the feat is invalidated.
Click to expand...
@Vzearr
First of all, I would like to say that I do not agree with the issue. Coming to what you said, what you said about the distance the light travels is complete nonsense. It would be better if we evaluate and look at the manga panel rather than the anime panel. As you can see in the panel I posted below, the distance the light reaches can be interpreted as the top of Naruto's head at most. You cannot prove whether there is a sequel or not.



The bending distance that OP says is also nonsense according to the manga panel. We can see that Naruto leans from the top of Madara to the distance of Madara's stomach.

Screenshot_20240216-114153.jpg
 
Patates said:
@Vzearr
First of all, I would like to say that I do not agree with the issue. Coming to what you said, what you said about the distance the light travels is complete nonsense. It would be better if we evaluate and look at the manga panel rather than the anime panel. As you can see in the panel I posted below, the distance the light reaches can be interpreted as the top of Naruto's head at most. You cannot prove whether there is a sequel or not.



The bending distance that OP says is also nonsense according to the manga panel. We can see that Naruto leans from the top of Madara to the distance of Madara's stomach.

Screenshot_20240216-114153.jpg
Click to expand...
The manga does not help at all. It’s unclear and still falls under the premise of the OP.
 
Vzearr said:
The manga does not help at all. It’s unclear and still falls under the premise of the OP.
Click to expand...
The use of anime panels is not accepted as correct in many naruto topics I have discussed. It would be absurd for this issue to be an exception. It would be healthier to draw a conclusion by taking the flow of the anime and manga together.
 
Patates said:
The use of anime panels is not accepted as correct in many naruto topics I have discussed. It would be absurd for this issue to be an exception. It would be healthier to draw a conclusion by taking the flow of the anime and manga together.
Click to expand...
The manga doesn't actually change anything though. It would still fall under the premise of the OP. The manga is actually worse to use because we don't have a clear line of the minimum distance Naruto travelled.
 
Vzearr said:
The manga doesn't actually change anything though. It would still fall under the premise of the OP. The manga is actually worse to use because we don't have a clear line of the minimum distance Naruto travelled.
Click to expand...
In my impression, a clearer drawing can be made with the angle of the manga panel. It is more or less obvious how high up Naruto is from Madara and how far he lowers his head. Since I am not good at calculations, I will not comment further.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
The issue with the manga is it doesn’t show Naruto dodging the beam, it shows him dodging the beam and the neck swing. Whereas the anime actually shows him suck the beam, that’s why the anime is being used over the manga currently tbh
Click to expand...
The issue of using manga and anime panels for calculation has been discussed before, I don't want to discuss it here, maybe someone will open this issue in the future...😜
 
Patates said:
The issue of using manga and anime panels for calculation has been discussed before, I don't want to discuss it here, maybe someone will open this issue in the future...😜
Click to expand...
No they won't. We've had a CRT going back and forth over this and it works perfectly with our rules. Don't get your hopes up.
 
Vzearr said:
Something like this.
Click to expand...
I agree with that

If I understand the issue correctly, the speed of all characters in the verse should be deducted from ftl. But I'll say one thing, we know there's multiple instances of the speed of light in naruto verse, so we're supposed to take them all as exaggerated, right? ( and that's really a lot ) so I'm not sure if all of the ftl characters in the verse should all be dropped
 
KLOL506 said:
No they won't. We've had a CRT going back and forth over this and it works perfectly with our rules. Don't get your hopes up.
Click to expand...
I still think that a combination of manga and anime should be used for the calculation, but ultimately my opinion will not change anything, you know better as the calculation team.
 
Vzearr said:
Something like this.
Click to expand...

Hard disagree with the first end. Naruto does not move in a straight line like that. I recommend completely removing that.

Good try with the second end but Naruto doesn’t just move his head. He kinda just spun his entire body to evade it. So rather than only using face height use either size of head - center of body or something.
 
Golden_Void said:
He didn't tilt his head; he ducked down diagonally. Point being - Naruto had to bend his torso and duck his head down to dodge the beam; he didn't just rotate 45 degrees. The total distance moved should be considered for the feat to be valid, among OP's concerns.
Click to expand...
Alright, but saying his body rotated almost 90 degrees is still pointless because that rotation was only seen after the laser went far past Naruto's body. Instead, one should probably take half his height and rotate around 30º
Example30degrees.png


We can calculate Arc Length by identifying the Axis of Rotation, which would be Naruto's center of mass, which is slightly below his belly button since he is still kind of straight in that shot, likely wouldn't shift by much. 30 degrees would likely do the job, while still allowing for the beam to break his staff.
 
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