Naruto-Boruto Low 5-B Upscale

[DuDE01010]

Borushiki =< Fatigued Rinnegan-less Sasuke < Kinshiki < Full powered Sasuke.

Borushiki is rated 5C here, so unless his rating is changed, then Kinshiki remains 5C.

 

[sageof8paths]

Don't you read? I literally said I'm just thinking in what media we're going to use. You don't need more than 2 neurons to know that there is a clear scale difference between anime and manga. Arguing for an upgrade using elements from both media is bizarre, as you simply take the parts that suit you and build a mixed argument between the two media. You only argument in favor of the manga's scale is that Sasuke "wasn't at his peak", which is nothing more than a guess. You basically say "If Sasuke can hit the fused Momoshiki, then he wasn't going in his maximum against Kinshiki at all." I don't think it's enough to ignore the inconsistencies in relation to Kinshiki, if we take that into account, it would possible mask several inconsistencies in the verse...

My position here is: Establish which media will be used. Because the manga is inconsistent, and there is no justification for Sasuke to be stronger against Momoshiki, but in the anime there is. So in this specific case, the anime should be taken into account. This my position is just about the scale between: Sasuke, Kinshiki and Momoshiki, but there's still one thing I want to know.

What is the justification for Kinshiki to scale above Toneri? I went on his profile and the justification mentions the fight with Sasuke. But I ask:

-If we're going to ignore the fight with Sasuke, what's the justification for Kinshiki to scale for Toneri?

-If we are going to consider that Sasuke wasn't at his maximum against Kinshiki because he was fatigued or any other justification, what justification do we have for scale this "tired" Sasuke above the BSM Naruto from The Last?

I think we always have to have a justification for scales, or not?

He should scale above toneri for numerous reasons such as him being a full blooded otsutsuki, toneri got one shotted by bsm naruto who would be far weaker than current naruto and fatigued sasuke unless u think bsm naruto scales to momoshiki. If kinshiki was that weak, they would just have one shotted by them

 

[GTsek]

Borushiki =< Fatigued Rinnegan-less Sasuke < Kinshiki < Full powered Sasuke.

Borushiki is rated 5C here, so unless his rating is changed, then Kinshiki remains 5C.

That's just what I'm asking. And this justification of his being fatigued is only valid for the anime. Only in the anime did he clearly get fatigued.

Taking into account the OP's arguments, the manga scale would be:

Sasuke = Kinshiki < Base Momoshiki < Fused Momoshiki < Sasuke...

I think that scale Sasuke "fatigued" to Naruto BSM needs more support

 

[GTsek]

He should scale above toneri for numerous reasons such as him being a full blooded otsutsuki, toneri got one shotted by bsm naruto who would be far weaker than current naruto and fatigued sasuke unless u think bsm naruto scales to momoshiki. If kinshiki was that weak, they would just have one shotted by them

But you have to prove that the fatigued Sasuke is stronger than the Naruto BSM from The Last. And his "fatigued" justification is only for the anime.

 

[sageof8paths]

That's just what I'm asking. And this justification of his being fatigued is only valid for the anime. Only in the anime did he clearly get fatigued.

Taking into account the OP's arguments, the manga scale would be:

Sasuke = Kinshiki < Base Momoshiki < Fused Momoshiki < Sasuke...

I think that scale Sasuke "fatigued" to Naruto BSM needs more support

Don’t know why I didn’t use this sooner. Here is specifically says sasuke travelling to kaguyas dimensions diminishes his ocular powers. We know ocular powers scale to physical stats because of what happened to madara. He goes from getting one shot by naruto and sasuke individually to being able to fight both of them at the same time. In his profile it’s stated he went from continental to moon level lmao. Can we end this debate now?

 

[DuDE01010]

That's just what I'm asking. And this justification of his being fatigued is only valid for the anime. Only in the anime did he clearly get fatigued.

Taking into account the OP's arguments, the manga scale would be:

Sasuke = Kinshiki < Base Momoshiki < Fused Momoshiki < Sasuke...

I think that scale Sasuke "fatigued" to Naruto BSM needs more support

Borushiki is 5C and he couldn't beat a fatigued Sasuke who just had his Rinnegan destroyed. So OP's reasoning for 5C Kinshiki stands.

 

[sageof8paths]

Borushiki is 5C and he couldn't beat a fatigued Sasuke who just had his Rinnegan destroyed. So OP's reasoning for 5C Kinshiki stands.

Thank you

 

[sageof8paths]

That's just what I'm asking. And this justification of his being fatigued is only valid for the anime. Only in the anime did he clearly get fatigued.

Taking into account the OP's arguments, the manga scale would be:

Sasuke = Kinshiki < Base Momoshiki < Fused Momoshiki < Sasuke...

I think that scale Sasuke "fatigued" to Naruto BSM needs more support

Also I never stated sasuke was above fused momoshiki. I said they’re relative who is stronger doesn’t matter. All that matters is that they both scale to around 398.6 Exatons

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Don’t know why I didn’t use this sooner. Here is specifically says sasuke travelling to kaguyas dimensions diminishes his ocular powers. We know ocular powers scale to physical stats because of what happened to madara. He goes from getting one shot by naruto and sasuke individually to being able to fight both of them at the same time. In his profile it’s stated he went from continental to moon level lmao. Can we end this debate now?

Madara gaining a second Rinnegan, which Obito stated was the only way to access the full power of the Rinnegan, is not comparable to Sasuke's energy being drained from being a lone wolf all these years. His ocular powers were weakened (i.e., his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan reverted to a regular Sharingan; his Rinnegan lost its tomoe) because his energy was exhausted from all of the Space-Time Ninjutsu and sleepless nights, traveling around the world to find more clues about the Otsutsuki.

Actually, what exactly were you trying to argue again? I genuinely lost track while writing this. Are you trying to argue that Sasuke is always exhausted, which leaves him in a constant state of weakness? Were you also trying to argue that his Sharingan's power diminishing meant that his power also took a dive? Because, that is not the case; only the Rinnegan is stated to actually increase the user's strength because of how much divine Chakra is contained within them; Obito gained a boost, Sasuke gained a boost that pushed him from below Ay to Ten-Tails Jinchūriki Madara level, and Madara received a boost that allowed him to one-shot all the Tailed Beasts after reviving himself, and his power only rose afterwards.

And, I hate to burst your bubble, but his Rinnegan was on full-blast, three tomoe and all.

Borushiki is 5C and he couldn't beat a fatigued Sasuke who just had his Rinnegan destroyed.

Yeah, he wasn't exactly trying to. His plan was to capture Kawaki, who would be his sacrifice to the God Tree, and then flee the scene using Space-Time Ninjutsu. He was not in a combat mindset; he was just trying to pick up his goody bag and then leave the party.

Also. Even with an attack that Momoshiki considered weak, he managed to strike Sasuke in the chest and leave him floored.

 

[DuDE01010]

Yeah, he wasn't exactly trying to. His plan was to capture Kawaki, who would be his sacrifice to the God Tree, and then flee the scene using Space-Time Ninjutsu. He was not in a combat mindset; he was just trying to pick up his goody bag and then leave the party.

Except the fact the Borushki states he too would be injured if he was to fight Sasuke and couldn't let his guard down. Despite the fact that Sasuke just had his Rinnegan destroyed and was wounded. Kinshiki fought a much stronger version of Sasuke.

Also. Even with an attack that Momoshiki considered weak, he managed to strike Sasuke in the chest and leave him floored.

He was hit in the vitals and was caught off guard. This has happened to multiple characters.

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

Sasuke gained a boost that pushed him from below Ay

Um, you sure?

 

[GTsek]

Don’t know why I didn’t use this sooner. Here is specifically says sasuke travelling to kaguyas dimensions diminishes his ocular powers. We know ocular powers scale to physical stats because of what happened to madara. He goes from getting one shot by naruto and sasuke individually to being able to fight both of them at the same time. In his profile it’s stated he went from continental to moon level lmao. Can we end this debate now?

Null has already talked good about Rinnegan, and Sasuke's exhaustion. There's no reason to say that Sasuke wasn't doing his best against Kinshiki. Anyway, that you can prove to me that Sasuke used the portal several times before fight with Kinshiki? there is a possibility that he was already been there in the dimension for a long time. And even if he arrived just before the battle, there's no way to prove he used the portal several times before the fight. If we follow your argument, it means that every time he used a portal before fighting, he got weak, that means he was weak against Momoshiki and Kinshiki in Momoshiki's dimension, and against Jigen and Ishiki as well...

But yes, we can finish here. If you want to make this messy scale, I can't do more than I've already done by arguing here.

 

[joshpiece]

Sasukes clearly not at full strength vs kinshiki drop the idiotic arguments, he didn’t even use EMS…. A clear amp that would mean sasuke’s fighting at 100%

 

[GTsek]

Sasukes clearly not at full strength vs kinshiki drop the idiotic arguments, he didn’t even use EMS…. A clear amp that would mean sasuke’s fighting at 100%

So he didn't seriously fight anyone in the manga, because he never used EMS, just to use Amaterasu.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Sasukes clearly not at full strength vs kinshiki drop the idiotic arguments, he didn’t even use EMS…. A clear amp that would mean sasuke’s fighting at 100%

Could you explain why the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan increases one's combat ability? I'd concede my argument if you do.

 

[InfiniteCosmology]

There is still a clear problem of scale here.

Manga and Anime contradict each other a lot, but they are both canonical, the overall scales of the manga are extremely confusing, clearly Kodachi had no idea what he was doing, and the anime sought to correct the bullshit he did.

In the manga, Sasuke fights Kinshiki 3x (ice dimension, arena, Momoshiki dimension). And in absolutely none of them he shows fatigue, he is always the same (only with the Sharingan). And at the 3 fights he is pressured by Kinshiki. After that, his only feat against the fused Momoshiki is to simply attack him from behind after Momoshiki is thrown away by Naruto. After that he caught by Momoshiki's Jutsu and does nothing against him alone. And in no time did he use EMS.

In the anime fight is different, Pierrot literally corrected the whole scale, we must not forget that in the anime, Sasuke has the Lightning Shunshin and the EMS. In the first fight with Kinshiki (ice dimension) he used only Shunshin + Sharingan, and was clearly fatigued, he even staggered at the end. The second time (exam arena) he doesn't use Sharingan or Lightning Shunshin, and still manages to oppose Kinshiki even though both are not using the Lightning Shunshin. The third time (Momoshiki dimension) Sasuke was only with the Sharingan and without the Lightning Shunshin, while Kinshiki didn't use the Lightning Shunshin either (and eve was pressured for the kages). And in the fight against fused Momoshiki, Sasuke with the Sharingan and without the Shunshin was obliterated, and after that, he activates the EMS and uses the Shunshin to fight with Momoshiki, which clearly demonstrates that he saw the need to amplify himself in order to fight .

Basically, in the manga it would look like this:
-Sasuke fight with Kinshiki 3x and is pressured at all, and doesn't have a direct confrontation with the fused Momoshiki, so he is comparable to Kinshiki and inferior to Momoshiki. For there is no justification for putting him and fused Momoshiki on the same level.

In the anime it would look like this:
-Sasuke + EMS + Lightning Shunshin = Fused Momoshiki > Fatigued Sasuke + Sharingan + Lightning Shunshin = Kinshiki + Lightning Shunshin > Sasuke "base" + Sharingan = Kinshiki "base".

The "base" means they are without the Shunshin.

So which one will we use? the factor of the existence of EMS and Lightning Shunshin, and Sasuke's clear need to use both for fighting with fused Momoshiki could be a justification for any inconsistencies involving Kinshiki, after all he wasn't at his maximum against Kinshiki, so i vote for using the most consistent

vsbattles considers manga images as the best proof for Naruto.

 

[joshpiece]

Do I actually have to prove the MS amps the user…. Did you even read the story or are you just being obtuse and ignorant just Bc.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Yah, ya do.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

If you're speaking on the Sharingan sharpening the user's perception, that is not combat ability, believe it or not.

 

[GTsek]

If EMS really amplifies statistics then Sasuke in the manga is just being an idiot who doesn't use it even though he knows he can get stronger, lol...

 

[DuDE01010]

Sasukes clearly not at full strength vs kinshiki drop the idiotic arguments, he didn’t even use EMS…. A clear amp that would mean sasuke’s fighting at 100%

This means nothing. Sasuke never used the EMS against Juubidara, Kaguya, Naruto, Jigen, Isshiki or Borushiki. The EMS was only ever used to do flame control in Naruto and Amaterasu in Boruto. Are you suggesting Sasuke only took fused Momoshiki seriously?

 

[joshpiece]

so now we just lying?

 

[GTsek]

so now we just lying?

Lol, he just used it just for the amaterasu. Show him using it to fight if you have it.

 

[DuDE01010]

so now we just lying?

Good one......You sure got me.

This means nothing. Sasuke never used the EMS against Juubidara, Kaguya, Naruto, Jigen, Isshiki or Borushiki. The EMS was only ever used to do flame control in Naruto and Amaterasu in Boruto. Are you suggesting Sasuke only took fused Momoshiki seriously?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

so now we just lying?

You have yet to prove that Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan is a strength enhancer (like the Rinnegan).

 

[GTsek]

At no moment in the manga he use the EMS to fight. Are you telling us that he can simply be at least 2x stronger and just doesn't use it? You see, if you are saying that it with EMS is comparable or superior to fused Momoshiki, and that without EMS it is comparable to Kinshiki, EMS at least doubles its AP. That is, Sasuke was fighting opponents (Momoshiki and Isshiki) 2x stronger than him and didn't use EMS because he's dumb, lol...

 

[DuDE01010]

I love Sasuke's new EMS design lol.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Wait, is he using the Susano'o with a basic Sharingan?
No disrespect to Ikemoto, but what the hell is going on with this art?
Maybe Sasuke really is just perpetually jobbed, and he is fighting every battle without being at full power.

 

[GTsek]

I love Sasuke's new EMS design lol.

Sasuke says, "We need to finish him right here and now." And what does he do? He use the EMS? No...

Clearly the EMS doesn't up his AP.

 

[DuDE01010]

Wait, is he using the Susano'o with a basic Sharingan?
No disrespect to Ikemoto, but what the hell is going on with this art?
Maybe Sasuke really is just perpetually jobbed, and he is fighting every battle without being at full power.

He was doing that in Naruto as well.

 

[GTsek]

The curious thing is that since he received the Rinnegan, he only used the EMS to fight once time, and it was in the anime against the fused Momoshiki... He fight with Kaguya, Madara, Naruto and Ishiki without using the maximum of his AP .

 

[DuDE01010]

 

[joshpiece]

No disrespect to Ikemoto, but what the hell is going on with this art?

It’s Bc the manga just does wtv and leaves it to the anime to clean it up… probably the main reason manga sales are consistently going down.

I’ll prepare my argument for the EMS/MS buff tomorrow morning.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

The obvious solution is to create two keys 1 for manga and 1 for anime /s

 

[GTsek]

It's time to separate Boruto's characters into 2 profiles, 1 for the anime and 1 for the manga.

 

[Damage3245]

It's time to separate Boruto's characters into 2 profiles, 1 for the anime and 1 for the manga.

Finally. About time.

We do the same with Dragon Ball Super.

 

[InfiniteCosmology]

You have yet to prove that Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan is a strength enhancer (like the Rinnegan).

 

[DuDE01010]

Why is this Kinshiki argument still happening?

Borushiki is 5C. A wounded and Rinnegan-less Sasuke was able to keep up with Borushiki and is stated to be capable of hurting him.

Kinshiki on the other hand stalemated a much superior Sasuke who had his tomoed Rinnegan and Sharingan active.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

We discussed this last time.

 

[GTsek]

Why is this Kinshiki argument still happening?

Borushiki is 5C. A wounded and Rinnegan-less Sasuke was able to keep up with Borushiki and is stated to be capable of hurting him.

Kinshiki on the other hand stalemated a much superior Sasuke who had his tomoed Rinnegan and Sharingan active.

Why Borushiki is 5-C? for fighting with Sasuke? But Sasuke without Rinnegan is 5-C for fighting with Borushiki? You just mentioned a circular scale.