Nanatsu no Taizai: Conceptual Manipulation

[Faa_Tzy]

I think people didn't open the scans, which isn't a problem, I did exactly the opposite, I opened the scans and didn't see what the OP had written

scan 3 says that the spirits "provide essence" not that they "are the essence" that is, the word essence here is not of a fundamental aspect/building block but rather of meaning/central idea/meaning this makes more sense with the other scans
For example this statement:
WE LIFE SPIRITS USE THE HOPES OF OTHERS TO SPREAD LIFE......BUT WE ALSO USE THEIR DESPAIR TO SPREAD DEATH.
this
Here he explains how his way of giving "essence" works, to give "idea/meaning" to life they spread hope while there is life and despair when there is death

Another point that supports the interpretation that essence = idea in NNT is this scan where Merlin says:

OF TALL THE RACES, HUMANS POSSESS THE MOST EXTREMES OF BOTH GOOD AND EVIL LIGHT AND DARKNESS WITHIN THEIR NATURE. THEIR EXISTENCE IS THE ESSENCE OF CONTRADICTION.

being the essence of "good, evil and contradictions" prove that essence = idea in the context of NNT because these things are not physical and do not need building blocks and exist purely on a plane of ideas

This is my interpretation of essences in NNT , and as spirits are giving essence with their existence on a universal scale they should fit very well as type 2 concepts

Eh, I'm not even very familiar with scans, but thanks for helping. I missed the word "provide" here.

But for this, I think Chaos embodies the essence of their contradictory nature. Actually, I'm not adding this as a CM 2 feat. Rather, it's proof that Chaos is a big part of Life Spirits.

 

[Faa_Tzy]

i going to repeat, being essence =/= being conceptual

Sorry, because I also misinterpreted for number 3 about CM 2. That Life Spirits are the essence givers for every living thing. As Gorilla explained

I also interpreted a bit about Life Spirits being the "source" of everything. However, what is emphasized is just living things. Specifically as spreading death and life.

 

[Faa_Tzy]

In fact, Life Spirits should be attached to every creature. This was proven by Percival affecting (touching) Behemoth's Life Spirits directly. The behemoth's Life Spirits, which were previously in despair, after being touched immediately experienced pleasure, or seemed to become a good hope.

This also happened to the Behemoth directly (in the physical world). Previously, the Behemoth caused an earthquake that was about to collapse the Demon realm. After being influenced by Percival (the Behemoth's Life Spirits), the earthquake stopped and the Behemoth went back to sleep.

Which means that death (earthquake) will not happen to Demon realm, because the life spirits have been influenced by Percival to save Demon realm (this should include spreading life anyway).

This should add to the criteria of CM 2, that every abstract concept is tied to the object it defines in reality/the physical world.

 

[speedster352]

In fact, Life Spirits should be attached to every creature. This was proven by Percival affecting (touching) Behemoth's Life Spirits directly. The behemoth's Life Spirits, which were previously in despair, after being touched immediately experienced pleasure, or seemed to become a good hope.

This also happened to the Behemoth directly (in the physical world). Previously, the Behemoth caused an earthquake that was about to collapse the Demon realm. After being influenced by Percival (the Behemoth's Life Spirits), the earthquake stopped and the Behemoth went back to sleep.

Which means that death (earthquake) will not happen to Demon realm, because the life spirits have been influenced by Percival to save Demon realm (this should include spreading life anyway).

This should add to the criteria of CM 2, that every abstract concept is tied to the object it defines in reality/the physical world.

We really need a staff that is familiar with these sort of things

 

[Vietthai96]

i'm literally an expert in this field

 

[Faa_Tzy]

i'm literally an expert in this field

I knew it
either way, I still need someone who understands this very well, including yourself.

But, what do you think of the little additions above? I mean would there be any change in your plans, or would you still reject it?

 

[Vietthai96]

i will return tomorrow to check them, it is midnight in my country and i need to sleep, my beautiful sleep

 

[Everything12]

In fact, Life Spirits should be attached to every creature. This was proven by Percival affecting (touching) Behemoth's Life Spirits directly. The behemoth's Life Spirits, which were previously in despair, after being touched immediately experienced pleasure, or seemed to become a good hope.

This also happened to the Behemoth directly (in the physical world). Previously, the Behemoth caused an earthquake that was about to collapse the Demon realm. After being influenced by Percival (the Behemoth's Life Spirits), the earthquake stopped and the Behemoth went back to sleep.

Which means that death (earthquake) will not happen to Demon realm, because the life spirits have been influenced by Percival to save Demon realm (this should include spreading life anyway).

This should add to the criteria of CM 2, that every abstract concept is tied to the object it defines in reality/the physical world.

This is not conceptual manipulation. This is not manipulating the concept of death, this is manipulating living beings so that they causes events that lead to things dying.

 

[Vietthai96]

I'm close to sleep, then E12 appear out of nowhere

He really know when to jump into a discussion, then disappear again like he converts himself to nonexistent

 

[Everything12]

Nah, I just have a life out of the forums but still try to do my role when I'm on and it's a topic I have an opinion on.

 

[speedster352]

Nah, I just have a life out of the forums but still try to do my role when I'm on and it's a topic I have an opinion on.

Anyway would abstract existence still work?

 

[Everything12]

No, I don't think so. They seem more like a form of spiritual energy that exists within all living thing than an abstraction.

 

[Faa_Tzy]

This is not conceptual manipulation. This is not manipulating the concept of death, this is manipulating living beings so that they causes events that lead to things dying.

Is OP evidences still unable to prove the abstract?

Btw, I'd like to discuss this scene in raw form.
"すべてを 育む源さ" "It's the source that nurtures everything."

It should also be the context here, it will be the same as the one above

It states Life Spirits as the source of all things, which means all living things in NNT are nourished by Life Spirits. But since the context emphasizes life and death, I think this refers to Life Spirits being the source of life and death for everything (in my wank mind this refers to the source creating the concept of death and life by propagating it), but what do you think?

How about this part?

No, I don't think so. They seem more like a form of spiritual energy that exists within all living thing than an abstraction.

Does the first, and also the third evidence still not prove anything?

 

[Vietthai96]

Being source of something, essence of this or that isn't really make it being conceptual

 

[Faa_Tzy]

I know that. But isn't it, at least the above criteria can be 'similar' to concepts, or there are abstract ones such as not having a form (wait, isn't not being able to be interacted with physically or non-physically included as abstract?)

Also here Chaos could be a big part of Life Spirits, and Chaos is an abstract entity (as will, also as good, evil, darkness, and light). Supposedly, this situation also makes Life Spirits abstract, because it would be impossible otherwise.

 

[Vietthai96]

I know that. But isn't it, at least the above criteria can be 'similar' to concepts, or there are abstract ones such as not having a form (wait, isn't not being able to be interacted with physically or non-physically included as abstract?)

i mean, you can stretch them to conceptual depend on how you interpreting them, and while abstract is non-physical, being non-physical isn't mean it is abstract

Also here Chaos could be a big part of Life Spirits, and Chaos is an abstract entity (as will, also as good, evil, darkness, and light). Supposedly, this situation also makes Life Spirits abstract, because it would be impossible otherwise.

Chaos is a will is stated in one of the scan, so i'm fine with Chaos being abstract entity, or AE1, but again not all abstract correlate to conceptual. I re-read all the scans, so as i said before, being essence of something is a nice supporting argument, but not the main one so there is still lacking major evidences to make it conceptual, such as it must shape and define something, created the world is fine and all, but not really connected to concept. Still, i'm fine with Possibly CM2, but you need to ask staffs, since their votes decide the outcome of the thread

Anyway time sleep time have come, so i need to go to bed

Edit: Chaos being AE1 based one it being a will, and Possibly CM2 via Chaos is fine by me. But Life Spirit isn't anything AE or CM

 

[Faa_Tzy]

i mean, you can stretch them to conceptual depend on how you interpreting them, and while abstract is non-physical, being non-physical isn't mean it is abstract

Ok, I understand.

while abstract is non-physical, being non-physical isn't mean it is abstract

Because in the proof Life Spirits are the ones that give essence, especially to living beings. One of them is the essence of life and the essence of death. Can't this also be said to be abstract?

But Life Spirit isn't anything AE or CM

How can it be if Chaos is AE1 and Possibly CM 2, while Life Spirits aren't? Even though Life Spirits are part of Chaos (according to OP)

Have a nice sleep and are you awake?

 

[Vietthai96]

Even though Life Spirits are part of Chaos (according to OP)

Life Spirit isn't part of Chaos from what is shown, more like Life Spirit was created by Chaos, so no

 

[Faa_Tzy]

Life Spirit isn't part of Chaos from what is shown, more like Life Spirit was created by Chaos, so no

1. Life Spirit is shown to be part of the "Greater being".

Even No. 1 has proven that Life Spirit is part of the 'Greater being'. I have also provided 3 other proofs, I don't understand why you suddenly reject them.

 

[Vietthai96]

Even No. 1 has proven that Life Spirit is part of the 'Greater being'. I have also provided 3 other proofs, I don't understand why you suddenly reject them.

Oke then, then i'm fine with Life Spirit being AE1 and have CM2

 

[Faa_Tzy]

Oke then, then i'm fine with Life Spirit being AE1 and have CM2

Oke, thanks alot!

 

[Zangnewbie]

Agree

 

[Zangnewbie]

I'm here to provide additional information about "essence".Firstly, everything has an essence, as stated in this claim.Secondly, the "essence" governs everything.For example, the essence of magic governs magic itself, or the essence of the soul governs the existence of an individual.With all of the above, I believe that "essence" is certainly a form of concept

 

[Faa_Tzy]

I'm here to provide additional information about "essence".Firstly, everything has an essence, as stated in this claim.Secondly, the "essence" governs everything.For example, the essence of magic governs magic itself, or the essence of the soul governs the existence of an individual.With all of the above, I believe that "essence" is certainly a form of concept

Thanks for the additions. I accept it, sorry I deleted the comment because it was purely from my own misunderstanding.

 

[Zangnewbie]

For example, I present evidence that "essence" is a foundational aspect by demonstrating its ability to dominate other aspects like magic and soul.
P/s: Demonstrating the dominance of an aspect is a prerequisite for it to become a concept.

 

[Zangnewbie]

Thanks for the additions. I accept it, sorry I deleted the comment because it was purely from my own misunderstanding.

Certainly, I'm glad you understood.

 

[speedster352]

We just need at least 2 more staff to look at the crt and approve the changes.

Thanks for the additions. I accept it, sorry I deleted the comment because it was purely from my own misunderstanding.

 

[Faa_Tzy]

For example, I present evidence that "essence" is a foundational aspect by demonstrating its ability to dominate other aspects like magic and soul.
P/s: Demonstrating the dominance of an aspect is a prerequisite for it to become a concept.

things related to the essence have been refuted above. I mean, it's just an essence and it's not a concept, and it wouldn't be a CM either (unless the specifics are explained).

But I don't have to be right, I didn't think more about essence (like the evidence you provided). So, i'll understand further.

We just need at least 2 more staff to look at the crt and approve the changes.

Some staffs have been called, so it's just a matter of waiting.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

This is not conceptual manipulation. This is not manipulating the concept of death, this is manipulating living beings so that they causes events that lead to things dying.

I find myself in agreement with this and RaveeCPN's take.

 

[speedster352]

I find myself in agreement with this and RaveeCPN's take.

Could you specify a bit?

 

[Faa_Tzy]

I find myself in agreement with this and RaveeCPN's take.

Thanks!

Maybe there's a bit of a reason?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I find their arguments more persuasive, simply.

 

[Faa_Tzy]

I find their arguments more persuasive, simply.

Ok I understand it, thank you.

2 staffs have refused, does it look like I don't have a chance?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Well, maybe other staff could be convinced. But I would recommend you research even more both our standards and how they could be applied to Nanatsu and try again in 3-4 months (that's the wait period to try the argument again using the current evidence; if you find other evidence not discussed here, you can make another thread whenever)

 

[Faa_Tzy]

Well, maybe other staff could be convinced

If only I could get more staff to come here, can my thread get a day to be closed?

But I would recommend you research even more both our standards and how they could be applied to Nanatsu and try again in 3-4 months (that's the wait period to try the argument again using the current evidence; if you find other evidence not discussed here, you can make another thread whenever)

Understood.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

If the staff is here, and can my thread get a day to be closed?

Sure, I don't mind waiting for another 24 hrs.

 

[speedster352]

Bump

 

[Vietthai96]

Bump

It get rejected, at least from what i remember 1 admin and 1 thread mod disagreed

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Sure, I don't mind waiting for another 24 hrs.

Since this extra wait period long passed, I have closed this