Nanatsu no Taizai Changes

[CNBA3]

equal to their power, as stated that anyone in their dimension had to have the same pl in order to escape. I am not saying they can't harm one another, I am saying that the AA are using attacks that are stronger than the domain which his later move had more water than what he produced whith his grace. then Esta admited that they are really strong and that one commandment will not cut it. that would strongly suggest that the domain being that level is outlier.

 

[Zezu1995]

dont it matters that estrossa was fighting two of them with 88k+ PL?

 

[Peter1129]

That's not the point. CNBA3 is trying to say Tarmiel's Ocean Creation feat is an outlier for some reason that I can't understand.

 

[CNBA3]

the point is that this feat was done by creation of water, yet when Tarmiel attacked Esta after gaining a commandment he was still overpowered by drastically less amount of watter created and esta fully admited to not be able to win in his current state

 

[Peter1129]

So you're trying to argue that Tarmiel's ocean creation feat is an outlier because an attack that uses less water could damage Estarossa? Yeah that makes no sense at all AP =/= Destructive Capability. Just because this attack uses less water doesn't mean it's much less powerful.

 

[CNBA3]

their are both basically attack potency, they are feats used the same way to attack Esta with the first having tornado added and then an attack the destroys on a molecular level.

 

[Zezu1995]

the ocean was just a trap for enemies.. the tornado/thunder was a fusion of their grace . as for the water peircer that was an attack , ocean trap wasnt

 

[Peter1129]

Tarmiel created an ocean and it's High 6-B there are no contradictions in the series so it's not an outlier. Other attacks that look weaker managing to damage 2C Estarossa doesn't make the feat invalid.

 

[CNBA3]

but it does, more = casual, less = serious, that is basically what Tarmiel did with his powers, the math does not add up at all, and basically did more with that casual than he did with later attack which begs the question, was more water not the answer and he had to use less water?

 

[Peter1129]

Well than I guess Vademon's 3-C dimension creation feat is an outlier since when it gets serious its attacks are creating and throwing planets and asteroids instead of galaxies, even though it maintains a Galaxy within its dimension just by existing. You see the problem here now? This is basically the same with Tarmiel creating a ocean that's High 6-B but when he fights seriously he uses attacks that seem less powerful even though they aren't.

 

[CNBA3]

i don't know who that is so I wouldn't know. His attack is only that powerful because it is basically combined with the other AA

 

[Zezu1995]

the issue is that CNBA thinks that the ocean trap was an offensive attack... no it was just a trap

 

[Peter1129]

@CNBA3 No we only calced the size of the ocean which is what Tarmiel created not the size of the dimension which was created by combining their powers. Also now that Zezu mention it that wasn't even an attack it was just a place to trap enemies in.

 

[Antvasima]

Just a mention that I am personally fine with the upgrades.

 

[fandom_9TailAcno]

they were trapped in perfect cube tbh.

And why the didnt able to break it?

 

[ByAsura]

Because it's the Perfect Cube. It is basically unbreakable, especially since the one casting it is Merlin.

@CNBA3

Ban and Meliodas' fight destroyed only an arena at one point, and this was when they were more serious than when they wrecked the Baste Dungeon that had a seal capable of protecting against 10 town level tyrant Dragons. It's also called fiction. What if Goku or Superman leveled the planet everytime they moved? The story would be over instantly. Even Demon Meliodas could destroy Liones, yet he doesn't.

 

[CNBA3]

yet both of them did not even have sacred treasures which draw out their full potential, not even any weapons for that matter, even Meliodas didn't have full counter to use. even Fraudrin mentioned to destroy all of liones while at 31, which should equate to or even be bigger than what Mel did to Danafor while he was 56 PL. see the logic there?

 

[Zezu1995]

they were trapped in perfect cube tbh.

And why the didnt able to break it?
only time PC was broken was with absolute cancel.. other than that it repels every attack doubling its power

 

[GalaxianAegis]

As it has already been stated here, Perfect Cube is a technique that has never been broken in the series by sheer power yet. The only way we know to get around it is to have it dispelled by a mage i.e. Chandler or Merlin.

That's why it's useful for locking things away or protecting the main group from harm for the most part. The mechanics of the spell itself make using more power against it a bad idea.

 

[ByAsura]

yet both of them did not even have sacred treasures which draw out their full potential, not even any weapons for that matter, even Meliodas didn't have full counter to use. even Fraudrin mentioned to destroy all of liones while at 31, which should equate to or even be bigger than what Mel did to Danafor while he was 56 PL. see the logic there?

They didn't need Sacred Treasures, since the example here focuses on that much damage without it. Actually, this proves my point entirely, they constantly get stronger, yet they rarely ever do city levels of destruction in a fight. Anyway, this point is entirely moot because of the perfect cube being there, meaning that they couldn't have destroyed anything.

He would do it with a sacrificial self destruction, and we don't know how it would have acted, we don't know if it was going to be like Meliodas' Darkness Pillair, or if it was just going to be an outward blast.

No, i don't see the logic here because the logic you are using is an AoE fallacy. They don't have to destroy things to be at a certain level, it's just called power scaling, and there actually are calculations for this from other characters, literally Meliodas of all people, who we are using for the Small Country level calc from his destruction of Danafor via vaporization.

 

[Malikobama1]

Figured I'd kickstart the thread again. Everyone at AA level is taken care of except for Escanor. Dark added a new key for his near-noon form so at some point stats for that form will be added in.


We should take care of the lower-tier characters since they're not controversial. As was agreed earlier, it's sketchy to keep backscaling through more than one tier from whatever the Commandments are upgraded to. So people like Matrona won't be scaling.

The only ones who will backscale are Hunter Fest Ban (PL~16000) for taking half of Galand's strength, and Post-Wings Elaine for being significantly stronger than HF Ban and blocking Melascula's escape with huge hurricanes.

_________________________________________________________________________

You need to be a little over two times as powerful as BoS Diane (3250 - 1800 strength/900 magic) to be 7-A.

Matrona (7600) has over two times her strength (4400) AND magic (2200), so she's baseline 7-A or "At least 7-B, likely 7-A"

Post-Training Base Diane (8000) is more powerful than Matrona. She's baseline 7-A.

BoS Berserk Meliodas (10300) is more powerful than that. He's 7-A.

True Spirit Spear King (11000+) is more powerful. Again, 7-A.

Pre-Training Diane w/Friends was far more powerful than TSS King, so again.

Despite HF Ban being around 16000 and scaling to Galand, we can't assume a fully linear scaling for obvious reasons, so anyone below him shouldn't scale imo.

 

[George_Hatziantoni]

I don't know wether this is the right place to ask but since it's an nnt revision board Nakaba confirmed that Meliodas' commandment before leaving the 10C was love it should be added on his profile http://l.*************/store/manga/...3bdd7a4dab7e029367342e4c0b795d&ttl=1527447600 Also why didn't Meliodas tier change to Small Country level for destroying danafor?

 

[Antvasima]

Can you summarise what still needs to be done here please? I am very tired.

 

[Peter1129]

Well the only thing left is deciding if the Ten Commandments And those comparable to them should be High 6-C/Low 6-B scaling from Meliodas Danafor Vaporization or 6-B via backwards scaling from the High 6-B Archangels.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

I agree with Malikobama on the lower tier suggestions.

 

[Antvasima]

The archangels said that they have roughly twice the power levels of most of the commandments.

 

[Dark649]

The archangels were also toying with the commandments, things got harder for them due to the Indura forms.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes.

 

[Peter1129]

So currently we have

High 6-C/Low 6-B Commandments supporters: Dark649, Antvasima?

6-B Commandments supporters: Malikobama, KamiYasha, ByAsura

 

[Malikobama1]

- Sariel and Tarmiel had their Graces back then, Sariel used his offensively and both used them defensively.

- Ludoshel stated he needed to intervene, meaning he suspected Sariel and Tarmiel wouldn't succeed their mission. Note that he intervened before any sign of Indura happened. He intervened because Tarmiel/Sariel were getting pressured.

- Sariel and Tarmiel started off the fight confident and joking around, but pay attention as it goes on. Sariel's expression switches to shock and then shock/fear, which is when Ludoshel intervenes. Tarmiel stops talking and concentrates on holding off both Derieri and Galand, and he loses his smirk.

- Tarmiel's Ocean creation feat is the epitome of casual.

- Sariel/Tarmiel state that they're only about twice as powerful as "you Commandments" in general. Which is why Ludoshel felt he needed to intervene.

- Both Sariel and Tarmiel are damaged multiple times by Monspeet/Derieri/Galand.

- Monspeet/Derieri/Fraudrin all tank Omega Ark with barely any injury, despite it being an attempted kill-shot.

The evidence is overwhelming for the Commandments to scale to a large fraction of the Archangel's power, which is why I'm arguing for a 6-B rating, as AA are lower-end High 6-B. The Danafor feat would simply be a supporting feat but nothing important.

I agree with this.

I'll quote this again so people don't have to scroll. This is the evidence for 6-B Commandments as opposed to Low 6-B.

 

[Zezu1995]

guys i found something turns out commandments dont work on other commandments other than their ow

 

[Antvasima]

@Malik

Well, I suppose that seems to make sense, but I would prefer to see what other staff members think.

 

[Malikobama1]

@Antvasima

Well KamiYasha already agreed with it and at the top Burning Full Fingers said he doesn't mind either way, and Dark hasn't addressed it yet.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. As I mentioned, that seems to make sense to me, but you should probably remind Dark649 to comment here via his message wall.

 

[Dark649]

What Malikobama1 seems reasonable.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Then I think that the suggested changes can be applied.

 

[Malikobama1]

Ok, sounds good.

 

[Peter1129]

Question shouldn't Post-Revival Meliodas w/ Demon Mark Be High 6-B? During the war 3000 years ago when Ludoshel tried to intervene Meliodas told Elizabeth to leave the Archangels to him which would mean he should be on the levels of the Archangels w/ Demon Mark. This is further backed up when Ludoshel didn't try to attack Meliodas until he told Sariel and Tamriel to back him up.

 

[Malikobama1]

You're right.

Edit: It's updated

 

[Zezu1995]

UM shouldnt we put elizabeth as a sin now? shes leading the sins since mel left