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Nanatsu no Taizai Changes
- Thread starter RavenSupreme
- Start date
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- nanatsu no taizai
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It's not invalid by context, you're the only one who's said that. It was already approved by a calc group member.
Again
If you read the manga and are up to date on it, this shouldn't be a question for you. Each Archangel has a Grace that gives them nature-themed abilities. Sariel creates wind and air. Mael/Escanor creates heat and light. Tarmiel creates water. We've seen him creating water. His water pillar attack for example appeared out of thin air. This means he takes molecules/atoms and turns them into water. The Ocean was directly stated to be created by his Grace as well, so your entire point is invalid.
The only alternative to this is assuming mass-energy conversion, which would yield astronomically high Large Planet+ results. Now that would need overly specific evidence, but this? No.
Again
If you read the manga and are up to date on it, this shouldn't be a question for you. Each Archangel has a Grace that gives them nature-themed abilities. Sariel creates wind and air. Mael/Escanor creates heat and light. Tarmiel creates water. We've seen him creating water. His water pillar attack for example appeared out of thin air. This means he takes molecules/atoms and turns them into water. The Ocean was directly stated to be created by his Grace as well, so your entire point is invalid.
The only alternative to this is assuming mass-energy conversion, which would yield astronomically high Large Planet+ results. Now that would need overly specific evidence, but this? No.
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What is it that I have to be the one to say it? I am the only one who actually sees that the calculation is invalid to use. No matter who approved it, it remains invalid. I do not understand why you sent all these examples, they continue to prove nothing on your point. I will not prolong this, just wanted to make my point that the calculation is invalid.
If you want to use an authority call, stating that someone approved the calculation, I talked to the Executor N0 about it some time ago, he was saying the same thing about calculation. I did not want to say it here but I had no other choice either.
If you want to use an authority call, stating that someone approved the calculation, I talked to the Executor N0 about it some time ago, he was saying the same thing about calculation. I did not want to say it here but I had no other choice either.
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"Why is it i have to be the one to say it?" Not to be rude but, maybe you're just wrong? Everyone provided a solid explaination above
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If you "have to be the one to say it," "it" being your own opinion, then join the calc group and get back to me. On this site calcs need to be approved by a calc group member. I did it, it was reviewed, I had to revise it and got lower values, and then it was approved. At the risk of sounding curt, deal with it.
"I do not understand why you sent all these examples, they continue to prove nothing on your point."
I explained things because it appeared you didn't know the context behind Tarmiel's powerset. You haven't actually disproved anything, all you've done is ignore evidence you don't like.
"I do not understand why you sent all these examples, they continue to prove nothing on your point."
I explained things because it appeared you didn't know the context behind Tarmiel's powerset. You haven't actually disproved anything, all you've done is ignore evidence you don't like.
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For the last time. Dude, I do not give a damn about who approved, the calculation is wrong. I do not care who he is, the calculation remains invalid. Just because it approved, does the calculation become valid even I presenting points to be valid? Ah yes, speaking of these points, you have not refuted any. He was arguing about the Graces, which does not change literally anything I said, he created the water, yes, but it is not valid for the method used in the calculation. That you can not understand.
Sorry for any rudeness, if you've been offended, sorry.
Sorry for any rudeness, if you've been offended, sorry.
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See that's the thing, you're saying that you're presenting valid points, but you haven't. All you're doing is disagreeing with a calc group member's evaluation, which doesn't matter. Again, if you want to argue he created the water another way, then I guess we're going for 5-A NNT. Which we're not.
"Sorry for any rudeness, if you've been offended, sorry."
Tbh dude get out of here with the false apology. You were the first one to start being confrontational with the "why do I have to be the one to say it" stuff, so either own it or don't bother with the passive aggressiveness.
"Sorry for any rudeness, if you've been offended, sorry."
Tbh dude get out of here with the false apology. You were the first one to start being confrontational with the "why do I have to be the one to say it" stuff, so either own it or don't bother with the passive aggressiveness.
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How will someone understand if you do not explain?
"Dude, I do not give a damn about who approved, the calculation is wrong. I do not care who he is, the calculation remains invalid."
Based on what? You complained that there was no evidence of water creation, the evidence was shown and you ignore it. Prove your point instead of simply saying it is wrong, use quotes and scans if you feel it is necessary.
"Dude, I do not give a damn about who approved, the calculation is wrong. I do not care who he is, the calculation remains invalid."
Based on what? You complained that there was no evidence of water creation, the evidence was shown and you ignore it. Prove your point instead of simply saying it is wrong, use quotes and scans if you feel it is necessary.
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To make it clear for anyone just entering the thread and confused about what's going on:
- Tarmiel creates water with his Grace, Ocean.
- We've seen him create water out of thin air.
- Domain of God is directly stated to be created by their Graces.
- So within a pocket dimension, Tarmiel creates an ocean.
- 5-A NNT makes no sense narratively and there's no direct statement of mass-energy conversion, so enthalpy of formation was used instead.
- It was accepted, and this thread is to decide on scaling that needs to be applied.
- Tarmiel creates water with his Grace, Ocean.
- We've seen him create water out of thin air.
- Domain of God is directly stated to be created by their Graces.
- So within a pocket dimension, Tarmiel creates an ocean.
- 5-A NNT makes no sense narratively and there's no direct statement of mass-energy conversion, so enthalpy of formation was used instead.
- It was accepted, and this thread is to decide on scaling that needs to be applied.
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Archangel level characters and up are going to High 6-B. They're a bit over baseline.
50k tiers were being argued earlier but it looks like they'll at least go to Low 6-B based on the Danafor feat using vaporization.
50k tiers were being argued earlier but it looks like they'll at least go to Low 6-B based on the Danafor feat using vaporization.
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@Peter
Yeah. Also did we work out the Matrona-Elaine characters?
@Zezu
It was done by Unsealed Demon Mel who several characters are scaled from. If we don't scale the Commandments to 6-B via the reasoning quoted right above by Kami, then it's an important feat for the lower high-tiers.
Yeah. Also did we work out the Matrona-Elaine characters?
@Zezu
It was done by Unsealed Demon Mel who several characters are scaled from. If we don't scale the Commandments to 6-B via the reasoning quoted right above by Kami, then it's an important feat for the lower high-tiers.
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Matrona would probably be like you said At least 7-B Likely 7-A. Elaine with Wings is currently scaled to the High 7-A's so she will probably still be scaled to Merascula so a low end High 6-C. Hunter Fest Ban will probably be Likely High 6-C as well since he is currently scaled to less than half power Base Galand. Everybody else like True Spirit Spear King will probably just be At least 7-A Possibly higher. If High 6-C Post-Wing Elaine and Hunter Fest Ban doesn't get accepted than they'll be At least 7-A Possibly higher just like True Spirit Spear King.
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The scaling seems ok to me, I gotta say I'm a little sketched on Elaine being Tier 6 though. IIRC she made huge hurricanes to block Melascula's back but I don't think she ever actually damaged her. I'll go with whatever most people think she should be.
Regarding the 26k and up characters, a few need more elaboration. Nakaba broke power levels into three stats for a reason.
1. Fraudrin, despite having an overall higher PL than Base Galand, actually has significantly lower attack power, and unlike the other Commandments has no good showings against the Archangels or other Commandments. He wasn't able to break through Sariel's barrier unlike Derieri, even in Full Size. And he was put into a near death state by a Low 6-B attack, although we don't know if he was in Full Size at that time. He wasn't big when Mel caught him with Liz, so I doubt it.
2. Melascula's physical durability is trash tier, even Base Ban was able to affect her. Her magic/black matter scales to the high-level Commandments but physically she's like 7-B material.
3. Same for Grayroad's physical strength without magic/black matter, although at least she's 7-A with it.
So IF we scale the Commandments to 6-B via the reasoning above, I think a strength or magic stat comparable to Galand's 25,000 should be required. Grayroad and Melascula only scale via their magic/black matter and Fraudrin doesn't really scale at all. He might scale to Base Galand in AP with Full Size, but that's a big might.
Regarding the 26k and up characters, a few need more elaboration. Nakaba broke power levels into three stats for a reason.
1. Fraudrin, despite having an overall higher PL than Base Galand, actually has significantly lower attack power, and unlike the other Commandments has no good showings against the Archangels or other Commandments. He wasn't able to break through Sariel's barrier unlike Derieri, even in Full Size. And he was put into a near death state by a Low 6-B attack, although we don't know if he was in Full Size at that time. He wasn't big when Mel caught him with Liz, so I doubt it.
2. Melascula's physical durability is trash tier, even Base Ban was able to affect her. Her magic/black matter scales to the high-level Commandments but physically she's like 7-B material.
3. Same for Grayroad's physical strength without magic/black matter, although at least she's 7-A with it.
So IF we scale the Commandments to 6-B via the reasoning above, I think a strength or magic stat comparable to Galand's 25,000 should be required. Grayroad and Melascula only scale via their magic/black matter and Fraudrin doesn't really scale at all. He might scale to Base Galand in AP with Full Size, but that's a big might.
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Fraudrin did pretty well against a half power level post time skip meliodas, who had power and strength nearly comparable to Meliodas' true power from the previous arc. This was true size. He could also be at this tier due to being superior to grayroad.
Melascula physically power scales to Gowther, who has feats on the level of low 7-B.
Melascula physically power scales to Gowther, who has feats on the level of low 7-B.
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@Peter
Well my opinion is clear by now, my reasoning for 6-B Commandments is quoted a few comments above this, and KamiYasha agrees as well. The reasoning still stands since no one's refuted it yet.
Well my opinion is clear by now, my reasoning for 6-B Commandments is quoted a few comments above this, and KamiYasha agrees as well. The reasoning still stands since no one's refuted it yet.
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But don't forget, escanos was using all the power he saved(10year) and use all against mel, so next time whenever escanonr goes in high non , he is no where near to the lvl when he fight meliodas in rage mode mode, also hawk is just a gag or comic relif character, he is hurt by many weak attack and shrug off high attacks
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Also scaling didn't accurate, depends on character powers a low lvl charactercan hurt high lvl on also archangle have holy magic and since demon are weak to it, i don't think any archangel scale to 6-B until i am missing somethingPeter1129 said:
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Also can anyone cross check those calc, because it look fake, i sometimes check some other calcs, but those one are looking in accurate, or a simple wanking, since if a fanboy do some calc, and another fanboy approved it. Also sorry if i offended anyone
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High 6-B is clearly a wanking, angels have holymagic to hurt demons. Escanor using his all 10 year worth save strength, inaccurate calsc. Etc.Peter1129 said:
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@9TailAcno
Judging from your behavior in basically every thread I've seen you in, I don't know if you're trolling or not. If you're being serious, then please go read the manga and/or this thread again. Everything has already been explained more than once. It's clear you haven't read anything, because nothing in the High 6-B calc has anything to do with holy magic hurting demons.
Judging from your behavior in basically every thread I've seen you in, I don't know if you're trolling or not. If you're being serious, then please go read the manga and/or this thread again. Everything has already been explained more than once. It's clear you haven't read anything, because nothing in the High 6-B calc has anything to do with holy magic hurting demons.
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This is what currently needs to be resolved. The 7k-21k characters seem to be agreed, the AA and up characters are agreed, all that's left to do is properly scale the 26k-61k characters.KamiYasha said:
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@9TailAcno
I somewhat agree with the Holy Magic thing about Elizabeth, but for the others that makes 0 sense with the scaling of the series. They have been able to hurt them with punches, kicks, charges, etc, not just Holy Magic, and they've been portrayed as consistently far superior to the 10 commandments, especially in the recent chapters where they're comparable to Truth Estarossa who has a PL of 88,000.
Now, about the Elizabeth thing, she was portrayed as comparable to Demon Meliodas from 3000 years ago - for those who don't know, 3000 years ago Meliodas is the same as post time skip Meliodas. She also withstands a gigantic beating from The Supreme Diety, and survives exactly as long as Meliodas. She's also assisted equally against Derieri and Monspeet.
For those who don't know, Elizabeth has equal power to Goddess Elizabeth from 3000 years ago.
Anyway Holy Magic has been shown to hurt beings superior to them, but inferior Demons have also resisted Holy Magic from superior Archangels.
I somewhat agree with the Holy Magic thing about Elizabeth, but for the others that makes 0 sense with the scaling of the series. They have been able to hurt them with punches, kicks, charges, etc, not just Holy Magic, and they've been portrayed as consistently far superior to the 10 commandments, especially in the recent chapters where they're comparable to Truth Estarossa who has a PL of 88,000.
Now, about the Elizabeth thing, she was portrayed as comparable to Demon Meliodas from 3000 years ago - for those who don't know, 3000 years ago Meliodas is the same as post time skip Meliodas. She also withstands a gigantic beating from The Supreme Diety, and survives exactly as long as Meliodas. She's also assisted equally against Derieri and Monspeet.
For those who don't know, Elizabeth has equal power to Goddess Elizabeth from 3000 years ago.
Anyway Holy Magic has been shown to hurt beings superior to them, but inferior Demons have also resisted Holy Magic from superior Archangels.
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@ByAsura
What do you think of the reasoning above for scaling the Commandments? So far it's agreed on by me and Kami, but no one's tried to refute it so we're in limbo.
What do you think of the reasoning above for scaling the Commandments? So far it's agreed on by me and Kami, but no one's tried to refute it so we're in limbo.
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7k is just barely 7-A for being much stronger than characters who are stronger than mid end 7-B so no High 7-A. 16k-21k would only be barely High 6-C scaling to less than half power Galand and Merascula. Everybody around 7k-15k will probably be At least 7-A possibly higher since Dark said we shouldn't backwards scale to a tier in between without feats.
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@Malik
I sort of agree, but it's inconsistent with the series at some points, but not others. Like, they can one shot Estarossa level opponents, yet they have trouble doing the same to people way weaker. But agree with them being a portion, with the exception of higher level ones, like Zeldris and Estarossa pre Truth who are implied and stated somewhat comparable very consistently.
I sort of agree, but it's inconsistent with the series at some points, but not others. Like, they can one shot Estarossa level opponents, yet they have trouble doing the same to people way weaker. But agree with them being a portion, with the exception of higher level ones, like Zeldris and Estarossa pre Truth who are implied and stated somewhat comparable very consistently.
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Yeah after rereading the fight 3000 years ago and studying it closely, I seriously can't believe Nakaba meant to make the Commandments hundreds of times weaker, it doesn't make sense.
Edit @ByAsura: So are you fine with scaling Commandments to 6-B (with obvious exceptions like small form Fraudrin, Melascula's physical stats etc.)? What are you proposing with Zeldris and Base Estarossa?
@Peter
What do you think of the reasoning a few comments above in the quote?
Edit @ByAsura: So are you fine with scaling Commandments to 6-B (with obvious exceptions like small form Fraudrin, Melascula's physical stats etc.)? What are you proposing with Zeldris and Base Estarossa?
@Peter
What do you think of the reasoning a few comments above in the quote?
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@ByAsura
So you mean Zeldris and Base Estarossa would be "At least 6-B" whereas weaker Commandments would be just "6-B"?
So you mean Zeldris and Base Estarossa would be "At least 6-B" whereas weaker Commandments would be just "6-B"?
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