- 6,875
- 1,319
Yes, you read the thread right, they are not the same. Yes in both games they function similarly in powering things and amping people, but if we look at the lore between the two games, we see that they are not truly the same.
In Galaxy it is general knowledge that Power Stars are the mature forms of Lumas, they are the power source of the observatory, and there are multiple different versions of them like the Grand Star
We don't get that same lore treatment in N64 (there are only silver stars) or any other games outside of Galaxy, all that we know is that Bowser is using the Power Stars to take over the painting worlds and that we need to collect the Power Stars in order to unlock the Bowser levels.
And also to ask, if the Power Stars between the games were the same, then in SMG2 why didn't Lubba just go and use the ones from Peach's castle to power the Starship? Assuming Mario had collected all 120 (to 150 if counting 64 DS) of them, Lubba would have more than enough to go straight to Bowser! But that doesn't happen.
Now, in a previous thread when I posed this issue the answer that I got was PIS or that Rosalina wouldn't have knowledge of the Power Stars in the castle; well to that I say, there's really no way she couldn't. You have Mario, the one who collected all the power stars, and several toads from the castle on the Starship, and you're saying they haven't even made a passing mention on the castle's power stars? They literally are right by the power source! There's no way they couldn't at least say "Oh, this Starship runs on Power Stars, just like how Peach's castle has Power Stars."
And to add, when Bowser took Peach's Castle in SMG1, did he use the Power Stars in the castle or no? He had just before stolen the Power Stars from the Observatory which would make his total number of Power Stars at is disposal at 240-270 Power Stars (223-263 if only counting regular Power Stars), but you only collect 120 power stars? And they are only the Comet Observatory's Power Stars?
The answer to all these questions are simple, the power stars in n64 and Galaxy are not the same, and the n64 Power stars would not work for the comet Starship or not provide enough power for it.
And also for my conjecture I don't think Bowser used the Castle's Power Stars since he didn't take the Castle in SMG2, only Peach. Now it could have been possible for Bowser to have taken the Power Stars from the Castle without taking the Castle itself, but like in SMG1 we only collect 120 Power Stars, and we see Bowser trying get more Power Stars via the Comet Observatory, so the question is would he need to get more Power Stars if he already had 120 of them to use? I think no...
Yes, I know in Galaxy's intro we see Toads finding a Grand Stars, but how long has it been since that Grand Star was found? A couple of centuries? A milennium? Whose to say they haven't used up the Grand Star's power up by then? And we don't see the Grand Star in Mario 64 anyway, and there's nothing the relates to n4's power stars to that Grand Star, so it's inconsequential.
From this, I propose we make two keys for Power Stars, one for Mario 64 (and other games) and another for Galaxy
As for the power of Power Stars and lumas in Galaxy, well it's not as cracked up to be. Now before anyone goes into a nerd rage, yes, I do support High 4-C lumas and power stars (keep in ming I'm not talking about Grand Stars), Power Stars are considered the mature form of lumas, and it's supported in the Japanese text that lumas can turn into Suns which I will show and break down here (as a warning some words I couldn't translate)
この星はとてもなつかしいにおいがするのです。百年の一度チコたちと訪れることがとても楽しみだったあなたの中にいるチコもいずれ成長し「スター／星」のないます。あるものは惑星になり…あるものは太陽のそしてあるものはパワースターにまります。わたしは、彼らが生まれかわれる場所を求めるともに旅をしているのです。それが、こんなことになんて…
この - this (something or someone close in posotion to the speaker (including the speaker), or ideas expressed by the speaker)
星 - star (usu. not including the Sun) or planet (usu. not including Earth); heavenly body
は - Particle that marks the topic of a sentence
とても - very; awfully; exceedingly
なつかしい - dear (old); fondly-remembered; beloved; missed; nostalgic
におい - aura; whiff; smacks of ...; sense; flavour; flavor (Not sure about this)
が - indicates sentence subject (occasionally object)
するのです - (Need to be translated)
百年 - century; hundred years
の - Particle that is used to indicate 'of'
一度 - once
チコたち - all lumas
と - Particle that is used to indicate 'if/and/with'
訪れる - to visit
こと - (uncertain translation)
が - indicates sentence subject (occasionally object)
とても - very; awfully; exceedingly
楽しみ - enjoyment; pleasure; diversion; amusement; hobby
だった - was; were
あなた - you?
の - Particle that is used to indicate 'of'
中に - inside (It describes how another entity relates to the inside of X)
いる - to be (of animate objects); to exist
チコ - luma
も - too; also; in addition; as well
いずれ - where; which; who
成長し - growth; development; growing up; becoming an adult
「スター／星」- Star
の - Particle that is used to indicate 'of'
ないます - (certain translation)
ある - determiner meaning a certain ...; some (uncertain translation)
もの - (uncertain translation)
は - Particle that marks the topic of a sentence
惑星 - planet
に - Particle that marks the person or thing that receives the object
なり- or something; for instance ... (though there are other suitable options)
ある - determiner meaning a certain ...; some (uncertain translation)
もの - (uncertain translation)
は - Particle that marks the topic of a sentence
太陽 - Sun
の - Particle that is used to indicate 'of'
そして - conjuction for and; and then; thus; and now; and finally
ある - determiner meaning a certain ...; some (uncertain translation)
もの - (uncertain translation)
は - Particle that marks the topic of a sentence
パワースター - Power Star
にまります - (uncertain translation)
わたし - Pronoun for I
は - Particle that marks the topic of a sentence
彼ら - pronoun for they; them
が - indicates sentence subject (occasionally object)
生まれ - birth; birthplace
かわれる - (uncertain translation)
場所 - place; location; spot; position
を - Particle that marks the object of the verb
求める - to want; to wish for
とも - (uncertain translation)
に - Particle that marks the person or thing that receives the object
旅 - travel; trip; journey
を - Particle that marks the object of the verb
している - inflection of 'する'/to do
の - Particle that is used to indicate 'of'
です - to be/is
それ - indicating an item or person near the listener, the action of the listener, or something on their mind
が、- indicates sentence subject (occasionally object)
こんな - this sort of; this kind of; like this; such
こと - (uncertain translation)
に - Particle that marks the person or thing that receives the object
なんて - things like; something like; someone like; such a thing as; (the fact) that; to think that
If anyone here is willing to look at this to mess to translate it properly, I'll be more than happy
But back to the point, it is definitely evident that regular power stars (and my extension lumas) are large star level, however I'm not sure if galaxy level could really fit for them. Yes we see hungry lumas turning into galaxies, but the "galaxies" they turn into aren't necessarily what we've at VS Battles defined as galaxy according to the AP page, they aren't nearly they size of the Milky Way anyway. So I'm not sure if that justification is correct. I downgrade for regular power stars should be needed.
And if this is possible, I think it maybe warrented to change 'With the Power Star' for Mario to 'With the Baby/Little Luma' since it can explain Mario being able to traverse space at MFTL+ speeds and use the Spin, and also in SMG2 Bowser says he acquired the Power of the Stars which did amp him which would apply the same for the Little Luma for Mario. Not I've been argued that it could only have happened in SMG2 but the ending of SMG did an Alien X to reset the universe to right before the events of SMG with only Mario, Rosalina, and a couple of Lumas (most likely including the Little Luma) knowing what really happened. If you don't believe me, well event happen again like the Star Festival when 100 years definite have not passed and te founding of the Toad Brigade. So to ask, why would the Little Luma amp Mario in one game but not the other? If the Little Luma is in both games and remembers the experiences it had in SMG, wouldn't Occum's Razor suggest that the Little Luma amped Mario in both games? It doesn't make sense why the Little Luma would withhold power from Mario, if the Little Luma remembers the experience it should have amped Mario in both Galaxy games.
Also for more proof, she says this in a dialogue screen of the Japanese SMG:
大切な人を取り戻すには星々をわたる力が必要です あなたに星の子／チコをお貸ししょう
大切な (taisetsu na), precious/important
人 (hito), person
を (o), this is used to mark the object that a verb will act on (in this case the object is the important person)
取り戻す (torimodosu) (this is the verb), to take/get back
には (niwa), in order to
星々 (hoshiboshi), stars
を - (o), again used to mark the object that will be acted on by a verb (in this case the stars will be acted on by the verb after it)
わたる - (wataru), to cross over/go across
力 - (chikara), power
が - (ga) marked the subject in this case power (力) is the subject
必要 - (hitsuyou), required, needed
です - (desu) is
あなた - you
に - Particle that marks the person or thing that receives the object (あなた)
星の子／チコ - luma
を - Particle that marks the object of the verb
お貸ししょう - inflection of 'to lend'
Notice how she uses the kanji '力' and uses the kun reading 'ちから', this means a couple of different things including 'force, strength, might, vigour, vigor, energy, capability, ability, proficiency, capacity, faculty, efficacy, effect, effort, endeavours, endeavors, exertions, power, authority, influence, good offices, agency, support, help, aid, assistance, stress, emphasis, means, resources'
Edit: It's been brought to my attention that there are some things I forgot about, so I've decided to fix my explaination up
In Galaxy it is general knowledge that Power Stars are the mature forms of Lumas, they are the power source of the observatory, and there are multiple different versions of them like the Grand Star
We don't get that same lore treatment in N64 (there are only silver stars) or any other games outside of Galaxy, all that we know is that Bowser is using the Power Stars to take over the painting worlds and that we need to collect the Power Stars in order to unlock the Bowser levels.
And also to ask, if the Power Stars between the games were the same, then in SMG2 why didn't Lubba just go and use the ones from Peach's castle to power the Starship? Assuming Mario had collected all 120 (to 150 if counting 64 DS) of them, Lubba would have more than enough to go straight to Bowser! But that doesn't happen.
And to add, when Bowser took Peach's Castle in SMG1, did he use the Power Stars in the castle or no? He had just before stolen the Power Stars from the Observatory which would make his total number of Power Stars at is disposal at 240-270 Power Stars (223-263 if only counting regular Power Stars), but you only collect 120 power stars? And they are only the Comet Observatory's Power Stars?
The answer to all these questions are simple, the power stars in n64 and Galaxy are not the same, and the n64 Power stars would not work for the comet Starship or not provide enough power for it.
And also for my conjecture I don't think Bowser used the Castle's Power Stars since he didn't take the Castle in SMG2, only Peach. Now it could have been possible for Bowser to have taken the Power Stars from the Castle without taking the Castle itself, but like in SMG1 we only collect 120 Power Stars, and we see Bowser trying get more Power Stars via the Comet Observatory, so the question is would he need to get more Power Stars if he already had 120 of them to use? I think no...
Yes, I know in Galaxy's intro we see Toads finding a Grand Stars, but how long has it been since that Grand Star was found? A couple of centuries? A milennium? Whose to say they haven't used up the Grand Star's power up by then? And we don't see the Grand Star in Mario 64 anyway, and there's nothing the relates to n4's power stars to that Grand Star, so it's inconsequential.
From this, I propose we make two keys for Power Stars, one for Mario 64 (and other games) and another for Galaxy
As for the power of Power Stars and lumas in Galaxy, well it's not as cracked up to be. Now before anyone goes into a nerd rage, yes, I do support High 4-C lumas and power stars (keep in ming I'm not talking about Grand Stars), Power Stars are considered the mature form of lumas, and it's supported in the Japanese text that lumas can turn into Suns which I will show and break down here (as a warning some words I couldn't translate)
この星はとてもなつかしいにおいがするのです。百年の一度チコたちと訪れることがとても楽しみだったあなたの中にいるチコもいずれ成長し「スター／星」のないます。あるものは惑星になり…あるものは太陽のそしてあるものはパワースターにまります。わたしは、彼らが生まれかわれる場所を求めるともに旅をしているのです。それが、こんなことになんて…
この - this (something or someone close in posotion to the speaker (including the speaker), or ideas expressed by the speaker)
星 - star (usu. not including the Sun) or planet (usu. not including Earth); heavenly body
は - Particle that marks the topic of a sentence
とても - very; awfully; exceedingly
なつかしい - dear (old); fondly-remembered; beloved; missed; nostalgic
におい - aura; whiff; smacks of ...; sense; flavour; flavor (Not sure about this)
が - indicates sentence subject (occasionally object)
するのです - (Need to be translated)
百年 - century; hundred years
の - Particle that is used to indicate 'of'
一度 - once
チコたち - all lumas
と - Particle that is used to indicate 'if/and/with'
訪れる - to visit
こと - (uncertain translation)
が - indicates sentence subject (occasionally object)
とても - very; awfully; exceedingly
楽しみ - enjoyment; pleasure; diversion; amusement; hobby
だった - was; were
あなた - you?
の - Particle that is used to indicate 'of'
中に - inside (It describes how another entity relates to the inside of X)
いる - to be (of animate objects); to exist
チコ - luma
も - too; also; in addition; as well
いずれ - where; which; who
成長し - growth; development; growing up; becoming an adult
「スター／星」- Star
の - Particle that is used to indicate 'of'
ないます - (certain translation)
ある - determiner meaning a certain ...; some (uncertain translation)
もの - (uncertain translation)
は - Particle that marks the topic of a sentence
惑星 - planet
に - Particle that marks the person or thing that receives the object
なり- or something; for instance ... (though there are other suitable options)
ある - determiner meaning a certain ...; some (uncertain translation)
もの - (uncertain translation)
は - Particle that marks the topic of a sentence
太陽 - Sun
の - Particle that is used to indicate 'of'
そして - conjuction for and; and then; thus; and now; and finally
ある - determiner meaning a certain ...; some (uncertain translation)
もの - (uncertain translation)
は - Particle that marks the topic of a sentence
パワースター - Power Star
にまります - (uncertain translation)
わたし - Pronoun for I
は - Particle that marks the topic of a sentence
彼ら - pronoun for they; them
が - indicates sentence subject (occasionally object)
生まれ - birth; birthplace
かわれる - (uncertain translation)
場所 - place; location; spot; position
を - Particle that marks the object of the verb
求める - to want; to wish for
とも - (uncertain translation)
に - Particle that marks the person or thing that receives the object
旅 - travel; trip; journey
を - Particle that marks the object of the verb
している - inflection of 'する'/to do
の - Particle that is used to indicate 'of'
です - to be/is
それ - indicating an item or person near the listener, the action of the listener, or something on their mind
が、- indicates sentence subject (occasionally object)
こんな - this sort of; this kind of; like this; such
こと - (uncertain translation)
に - Particle that marks the person or thing that receives the object
なんて - things like; something like; someone like; such a thing as; (the fact) that; to think that
If anyone here is willing to look at this to mess to translate it properly, I'll be more than happy
But back to the point, it is definitely evident that regular power stars (and my extension lumas) are large star level, however I'm not sure if galaxy level could really fit for them. Yes we see hungry lumas turning into galaxies, but the "galaxies" they turn into aren't necessarily what we've at VS Battles defined as galaxy according to the AP page, they aren't nearly they size of the Milky Way anyway. So I'm not sure if that justification is correct. I downgrade for regular power stars should be needed.
And if this is possible, I think it maybe warrented to change 'With the Power Star' for Mario to 'With the Baby/Little Luma' since it can explain Mario being able to traverse space at MFTL+ speeds and use the Spin, and also in SMG2 Bowser says he acquired the Power of the Stars which did amp him which would apply the same for the Little Luma for Mario. Not I've been argued that it could only have happened in SMG2 but the ending of SMG did an Alien X to reset the universe to right before the events of SMG with only Mario, Rosalina, and a couple of Lumas (most likely including the Little Luma) knowing what really happened. If you don't believe me, well event happen again like the Star Festival when 100 years definite have not passed and te founding of the Toad Brigade. So to ask, why would the Little Luma amp Mario in one game but not the other? If the Little Luma is in both games and remembers the experiences it had in SMG, wouldn't Occum's Razor suggest that the Little Luma amped Mario in both games? It doesn't make sense why the Little Luma would withhold power from Mario, if the Little Luma remembers the experience it should have amped Mario in both Galaxy games.
Also for more proof, she says this in a dialogue screen of the Japanese SMG:
大切な人を取り戻すには星々をわたる力が必要です あなたに星の子／チコをお貸ししょう
大切な (taisetsu na), precious/important
人 (hito), person
を (o), this is used to mark the object that a verb will act on (in this case the object is the important person)
取り戻す (torimodosu) (this is the verb), to take/get back
には (niwa), in order to
星々 (hoshiboshi), stars
を - (o), again used to mark the object that will be acted on by a verb (in this case the stars will be acted on by the verb after it)
わたる - (wataru), to cross over/go across
力 - (chikara), power
が - (ga) marked the subject in this case power (力) is the subject
必要 - (hitsuyou), required, needed
です - (desu) is
あなた - you
に - Particle that marks the person or thing that receives the object (あなた)
星の子／チコ - luma
を - Particle that marks the object of the verb
お貸ししょう - inflection of 'to lend'
Notice how she uses the kanji '力' and uses the kun reading 'ちから', this means a couple of different things including 'force, strength, might, vigour, vigor, energy, capability, ability, proficiency, capacity, faculty, efficacy, effect, effort, endeavours, endeavors, exertions, power, authority, influence, good offices, agency, support, help, aid, assistance, stress, emphasis, means, resources'
Edit: It's been brought to my attention that there are some things I forgot about, so I've decided to fix my explaination up
Last edited:
