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My Little Pony General: From Dawn til Twilight

Amelia_Lonelyheart

Amelia_Lonelyheart

Luckiest Lady in the Land
She/Her
VS Battles
Retired
10,674
6,326
Ha, puns.

With Generation 4 in its last (relative) days, and Gen 5 rumored to premiere in the following years, quite a bit is happening in the world of Equestria right now. Season 10 comics, the Transformers crossover, and thsee weird Pinkie Pie shorts on YouTube I don't think anyone really comprehends. Use this thread to discuss everything MLP, from previous generations to spin-offs, to calcs and feats, to just say your thoughts on the franchise thus far!

Last wiki thread

Edit: Thread title altered because the original seemed a bit misleading.
 
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Would a weird cross between mlp and kingdom hearta be fun? Riku could go all 'I walk the path to dawn' in front of nightmare moon marking her think his explicit goal is beating her up and getting the sun to rise, sora could travel with twilight and her friends being his stange stangly positive teaching twilight the value of friendship for the first against nightmares moon.
 
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And on the second visit, we skip over discord, but people account storys of the chaos more threatening then light or darkness, bring sora to ponder Suddenly and strangely 'chaos..beyond light? And darkness?' And the second vist would cover the crystal empire, sambra's shadow presence thing operating like the power out areas in the INFUMASE games, swarming with heartless, ha I wonder what sora's worst fear would be?
 
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Nightmare Moon and Sombra def fit the bill for KH villains more then Discord; maybe Discord can be an ally or summon like Genie? Could be fun! Tirek could also work in Sombra's place since he fits a similar archetype, but has more of a "main villain" vibe.
 
I was thinking discord would be a secret boss, in the post game if you wonder into the garden area of Canterlot a cutscene would play featuring the 3 sora, Donald, and goofy getting into a fight with Donald getting angry over something stupid at sora and goofy trying to be a mediator, but it spirals outwards, and much like with the Cuite mark crusaders in the show, discords statue would crack and he would be free. Trigger lingering will level boss fight with changing terrain and acid chocolate rain
 
Tho if discord was a summon I imagine him either doing area of effect damage with 'chocolate acid rain' or making heartless all pink and wearing baby cloths or something as they gain large cartoony spiral eyes and attack other enemies for a time, i imagine eventually they'd turn back to normal but summons are aways over powered so maybe they won't and they just will aways be brainwashed until you hit them or something
 
I was told you can still talk about revisions if you do it on a discussion thread, so as long as that is true, I suppose this couldn't hurt. This is a two-part comment to shorten things. If it turns out I'm wrong and I shouldn't be trying to talk about this yet, I will simply delete these comments and post them later when appropriate.

Anyways, I think we should remove scaling to the Elements of Harmony for the Alicorn tiers. This would naturally cut off Low 2-C for them. The EoH are portrayed as some of the most powerful forces of magic in the world. Nightmare Moon was helpless against them, and Sombra was straight up vaporized. Scaling to them was only ever to serve as supplementary evidence for what was already likely, it was never supposed to be the main reasoning for the tier.

With the fabric of reality statements not actually counted as tier 2, they kinda don't have anything beyond 3-A to High 3-A to stand on. High 3-A was rejected based on being flowery language, but at a second look, I'm not sure how being called infinite in power, then being planned on being used to corrupt and make empty an infinite number of Universes can be counted as flowery. That's like, the opposite of flowery, he calls their power infinite, then plans to use them in a feat that would require infinite power. Sure, you might say they have the range or speed to do such things, but he's blatantly not talking about those attributes. It is simply not possible to affect an infinite number of Universes without infinite range, speed, or power, and he's only talking about one of them.

So, without concrete proof of anything tier 2, it is probably best to downgrade the alicorn tiers to High 3-A. The Pony of Shadows can keep his rating since he explicitly couldn't be defeated by the Elements outright.
 
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Lightbuster30 said:
I was told you can still talk about revisions if you do it on a discussion thread, so as long as that is true, I suppose this couldn't hurt. This is a two part comment to shorten things.

Anyways, I think we should remove scaling to the Elements of Harmony for the Alicorn tiers. This would naturally cut off Low 2-C for them. The EoH are portrayed as some of the most powerful forces of magic in the world. Nightmare Moon was helpless against them, and Sombra was straight up vaporized. Scaling to them was only ever to serve as supplementary evidence for what was already likely, it was never supposed to be the main reasoning for the tier.

With the fabric of reality statements not actually counted as tier 2, they kinda don't have anything beyond 3-A to High 3-A to stand on. High 3-A was rejected on the basis of being flowery language, but at a second look, I'm not sure how being called infinite in power, then being planned on being used to corrupt and make empty an infinite number of Universes can be counted as flowery. That's like, the opposite of flowery, he calls their power infinite, then plans to use them in a feat that would require infinite power. Sure, you might say they have the range or speed to do such things, but he's blatantly not talking about those attributes. It is simply not possible to affect an infinite number of Universes without infinite range, speed, or power, and he's only talking about one of them.

So, without concrete proof of anything tier 2, it is probably best to downgrade the alicorn tiers to High 3-A. The Pony of Shadows can keep his rating since he explicitly couldn't be defeated by the Elements outright.
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However, that being said I have been discussing stuff with friends on Discord and found an interesting; yet overlooked, feat that could not only allow the characters to keep their tier 2 ratings but even put them into the next tier above them.

This potential feat is scaling Star Swirl the Bearded to the mirror portals, which when shattered, accelerated the process of two Universes merging with each other. What happened was Celestia constantly traveling through a prototype mirror portal caused the link between the two Universes to become unstable and form a rift. This rift was causing paradoxes and breaking down the dimensional walls between the two universes. When Evil Celestia blasted Evil Luna, regular Luna was blasted backward into the mirror portal, shattering it. The instant this happens, the Universes begin to completely merge with one another, to the point where Celestia can simply fly through the tears in reality caused by the merging to fight her parallel self.

We know for a fact the mirror was directly responsible for this because it's shattering is what accelerated the merging. Evil Celestia wanted to fight Celestia. Her original plan was to injure Evil Luna (The Paradoxes had linked Celestia and Luna with their evil versions, meaning damage to one caused damage to the other) and by extension normal Luna, then Celestia would come rushing through the mirror portal. Instead what happens as a cause of this, is the mirror shatters, and both realities begin to crumble so badly, that it begins to form rips between them, allowing Celestia to pass through. This is not what Evil Celestia planned, even if it was better. This statement directly implies things wouldn't be so dire if she hadn't indirectly shattered the portal, as it wasn't part of the plan. I mean, we went from a slow forming green sky to a visual of the worlds merging into each other and tears in reality that you could pass through the instant the mirror broke. It's clear the mirror becoming unstable is what was causing the paradoxes and merging.

So, what does this have to do with Star Swirl? Well, he enchanted the mirror in the first place. Back before Star Swirl had the prototype and the Equestria Girls mirror, he had dozens of mirrors leading to different dimensions. After the incident with the parallel Pony of Shadows, rather than have one mirror per world, he made a prototype that was intended to go to any singular world. Basically, it was Star Swirl's magic that enchanted the mirrors in the first place. And since his magic empowered the mirror, we figured it would be possible to scale him to the mirror.

As it stands, the current suggestions for revising the profiles is this, starting with Star Swirl:

Solar System level (Replicated Celestia's Sun moving feat every day with 5 others before Celestia stepped in), likely High Universe level (Superior to Alicorn Twilight Sparkle, who could harm Evil Luna, took a hit from Evil Celestia, and could fight Sombra with difficulty)

Solar System level (Replicated Celestia's Sun moving feat every day with 5 others before Celestia stepped in), likely High Universe level (Superior to Alicorn Twilight Sparkle, who could harm Evil Luna, took a hit from Evil Celestia, and could fight Sombra with difficulty) to Low Multiverse level (Enchanted the mirror portal, which linked two Universes when it became unstable and almost completely merged them when shattered)

Whatever the case may be, our current justifications aren't good enough for Low 2-C.
 
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^^^
I despise the scalling of the comics to the show not gona lie, it's like, like, legends vs EU for starwars man,
 
Lightbuster30 said:
Also, it really isn't anything like Star Wars EU. I'm getting real tired of these false comparisons to other series.
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The EU had many different 'levels' of canon, please take my word for it, it was convoluted at times, some things were canon to a set of storys, some things were canon only to themselves, and somethings were regarded as canon as the movies.

Then legends came, and non of it was canon, and now people compare all of it to eachother, because it's all 'legends' and it's all 'noncanon' even tho it was never ment to be that way

And now there's the show, before an element from the comics was canon if it was confirmed by the show (such as what happened to the Phoenix baby) and after ' season 10' was announced in the comcis everything from them became canon... even tho that wasn't what was orginal intented
 
Darkmon_cns said:
And now there's the show, before an element from the comics was canon if it was confirmed by the show
Click to expand...
Right, I'm just going to say that this is not how the rules work. This was made up by vsbw. This is not how the official rules between the comic and cartoon work.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
No no, I meant different continuity from what is currently considered canon? I heard George Lucas said it was a different world from his and Disney outright non-canonized it in 2014.
Click to expand...
Well that's getting into semantics i suppose, The EU was rebranded as legends when Disney canon started, and when asked if anything was coming back or if anything that use to be a thing like the old republic was still around, they would give the non answer 'there's some truth to legends'
You could certainly call it a different continuity, it certainly isn't connected to Disney canon. Tho like I said calling the EU '1 continuity' is technically wrong, but that's how people like to act to legends :/

Lightbuster30 said:
Right, I'm just going to say that this is not how the rules work. This was made up by vsbw. This is not how the official rules between the comic and cartoon work.
Click to expand...
I was less referring to this wiki and more to how I saw people treat the comics in general in the community before the 'season 10' comic
 
Darkmon_cns said:
I was less referring to this wiki and more to how I saw people treat the comics in general in the community before the 'season 10' comic
Click to expand...
No, that's definitely a wiki only rule. The wiki is the only place I know of that accepts comics as long as they get referenced. But I've been talking with people. People who know the comics far better than I could dream of. I don't know if I'll ever talk get around to talking about it, but I know now that we're treating the MLP comics the wrong way. For now though, I'm satisfied with the current rules.
 
Oh, I don't doubt most people outside the wiki see the comics as non-canon. But this specific rule is something I've only ever seen here.
 
Well it was less some sort of written rule and more of me seeing alot of a, 'but look this happened, that one time in the comics must be canon' and no one really aguing
 
Well I was arguing. Only reason I'm not right now is because I promised to stop. Of course, that was before new information came to light; by which I mean old information taken in a new context.
 
I guess I don't actually remember those old thing all that well, I know some people didn't like the idea of anything from the comics being canon, but they just didn't like comics I guess, but I don't remember how exactly things went thinking about it
 
Lightbuster30 said:
Well I was arguing. Only reason I'm not right now is because I promised to stop. Of course, that was before new information came to light; by which I mean old information taken in a new context.
Click to expand...
O I avoided revision threads for mlp like the plage after the verse reached tier 4, I probably never read it
 
Lightbuster30 said:
Anyways, I think we should remove scaling to the Elements of Harmony for the Alicorn tiers. This would naturally cut off Low 2-C for them. The EoH are portrayed as some of the most powerful forces of Magic in the world. Nightmare Moon was helpless against them, and Sombra was straight up vaporized. Scaling to them was only ever to serve as supplementary evidence for what was already likely, it was never supposed to be the main reasoning for the tier.
Click to expand...
No, he turned intangible and escaped, since he came back to destroy the Tree of Harmony.
 
...Anyway.

I agree. The basis that their infinite power statement was "flowery" is kind of dumb to me. There's not really anything "poetic" about the statement, and their goal was to reshape the infinite multiverse. I think High 3-A is fine.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
Using their own Friendship Magic doesn't make it more powerful. Sombra specifically destroyed the Tree of Harmony because he feared the Elements.
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I never said it did, I meant he wasn't vaporized by the Elements because he was never actually hit. Yes he destroyed the Tree because the Elements, and when they killed him, they weren't using the Elements.

Did I misinterpret your words or something cause I'm lost here.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
The magic they used to kill Sombra is the same magic they use with the Elements of Harmony. Just, you know, without the Elements. Why does it matter if they weren't using the Elements if it's the same magic?
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Even if not, if the magic is just as powerful or weaker, it dosen't really affect your agument?
 
Amelia_Lonelyheart said:
Well, the High 3-A feat has always been arguably 2-A, but we decided against it for various reasons.
Click to expand...
Mostly them being that there's no proof space-time is being affected. I mean, they can, but apparently affecting the fabric of the Universe isn't doesn't automatically mean you're affecting all of it.
Amelia_Lonelyheart said:
their goal was to reshape the infinite multiverse. I think High 3-A is fine.
Click to expand...
You know this is kinda funny if you don't have any context for this.
 
Yeah, I think it was pretty clear that their stuff was affecting the physical world exclusively, no space-time stuff involved.
 
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