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My Little Pony FiM Revision Thread (Warning: Season 9 Spoilers) [Part 2]

The 2nd Existential Seed said:
Wasn't Starlight shown relative to current Twilight still, or at least strong enough to hold back amped Chrysalis and tank a direct blow from Tirek ? If so shouldn't she be affected ?
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She mostly dodged every shot from chrysalis, and the blast Starlight hit did nothing to her. Adding that Starlight was knocked out just by an indirect hit (the shockwave of that mountain busting power surge she had), it makes me think ultimate chrysalis was way stronger than starlight (I dare to say she's the strongest one of the 3 villains) (I also don't recall her tanking tirek)
 
"But feats are very important. You can't just write them off because you think they mess up the powerscaling. Especially when they're in such abundance. Also, it does make sense for Twilight to be Celestia tier, as she's ascending to the throne, and it's been many years since she became a Low 4-C. It's logical to assume that she's gotten stronger since season 4. She's actually been shown training before, so that solidifies my point even further."

You have a point. However, the reason I consider her deflecting Sombra's blasts (before she and her friends used the power of friendship mind you, which I don't really consider an outlier) to be an outlier is because this was after multiple statements, including ones from herself mind you, that she and her 5 friends stood no chance against him in a direct physical confrontation. The blasts themselves should have required the power of friendship to be deflected, yet she did that on her own. This causes problems because Sombra appears to be the most powerful pony to have ever existed. The Pony of Shadows statement that Star Swirl was only slightly stronger than Twilight, who was stated to stand no chance against him in a direct physical fight even with the help of the rest of the Mane 6, as well as the fact that the two sisters had to work together to defeat him, suggests that he by himself has more power than any other individual pony, period. He should have easily been able to overpower her with his blasts, only being stopped with the Power of Friendship. I consider the deflecting of his spells by Twiliht alone to be an outlier for that reason.
 
Her blast pushed back Chrysalis which is actually impressive considering Starswirl could only at most make Tirek flinch. Both times Starlight got knocked out she had her back turned and got caught off-guard, so you can't really say it counts. Not to mention the first KO gets negged by the fact that Starlight was back at full power and ready to fight in less than half a minute after she gets hit the second time.

Oh, and did I forget to mention she was exhausted when she got hit the second time?
2019-09-22 1943


Look at her. Freeing everyone clearly took a bit of magic out of her as evidenced by the bags under her eyes. So not only was she off-guard, but she wasn't even at full power when she got hit the second time.
 
Oh and as much as I hate the scene: Tirek is undoubtably the strongest of the three judging by how badly he stomped the Pillars.
 
I know this is a bit off topic but I was kinda hoping Tirek would recognize Starswirl and comment about there past since it was his brother Scorpan's warning to Celestia and Luna that defeated him in the first place.
 
First off: Why not? If you don't show the scripts then I have no reason to believe you.

Secondly: That doesn't take away my point that Cozy was strong enough that a combined magic blast was needed. It doesn't matter if it would've one shot her or not, it still shows Celestia and Luna weren't confident they could do it individually.
 
Frieza force soldier 100 said:
You have a point. However, the reason I consider her deflecting Sombra's blasts (before she and her friends used the power of friendship mind you, which I don't really consider an outlier) to be an outlier is because this was after multiple statements, including ones from herself mind you, that she and her 5 friends stood no chance against him in a direct physical confrontation. The blasts themselves should have required the power of friendship to be deflected, yet she did that on her own. This causes problems because Sombra appears to be the most powerful pony to have ever existed. The Pony of Shadows statement that Star Swirl was only slightly stronger than Twilight, who was stated to stand no chance against him in a direct physical fight even with the help of the rest of the Mane 6, as well as the fact that the two sisters had to work together to defeat him, suggests that he by himself has more power than any other individual pony, period. He should have easily been able to overpower her with his blasts, only being stopped with the Power of Friendship. I consider the deflecting of his spells by Twiliht alone to be an outlier for that reason.
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Twilight has repeatedly been shown underestimting herslf. It's very in-character for her to believe that she's too weak and be wrong. Also, she wasn't exactly on the same level of Sombra. See was clearly struggling a lot. This was especially obvious in the beam clash where she was almost defeated before her friends stepped in.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
Her blast pushed back Chrysalis which is actually impressive considering Starswirl could only at most make Tirek flinch. Both times Starlight got knocked out she had her back turned and got caught off-guard, so you can't really say it counts. Not to mention the first KO gets negged by the fact that Starlight was back at full power and ready to fight in less than half a minute after she gets hit the second time.

Oh, and did I forget to mention she was exhausted when she got hit the second time?
2019-09-22 1943


Look at her. Freeing everyone clearly took a bit of magic out of her as evidenced by the bags under her eyes. So not only was she off-guard, but she wasn't even at full power when she got hit the second time.
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Sure, but that's because Chrysalis wasn't xpecting an attack, and again, it didn't hurt her. I think the only reason she got pushed back was because she was in the air. If her feet were firmly planted on the ground, I'm sure she would have been able to resist the blast.

That's true, but it still burned her skin. I don't think that would've changed if she was at full power.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
Oh and as much as I hate the scene: Tirek is undoubtably the strongest of the three judging by how badly he stomped the Pillars.
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Well, that's basically just overpowering one Low 4-C and a bunch of 6-Bs. That's even easier than the situation Cozy was in, and sure, she lost, but that's only because of strategy. She didn't have trouble overpowering any of them through brute strength. Though I do agree Tirek is probably the strongest of the three.
 
GokuSparkle said:
That's true, but it still burned her skin. I don't think that would've changed if she was at full power.
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She's trying to attack her. Her not expecting an attack is an assumption at best. However it's blatantly not speculation that Starlight not only wasn't expecting an attack but had her back turned.

The burn mark is completely gone when we see her again. At best it burned some fur, not her skin.

It absolutely would've changed if she was at full power. Having more of her full power makes her more able to defend herself. A man who just ran for half a day straight without rest isn't taking a punch as well as a person who is fully rested and not tired. Both their stamina and durability are going to be affected.
 
Yeah I would say Tirek is definitely the most powerful there. The bell distributed power equally amongst the three. Cozy obviously would be the weakest among them (though still very powerful) Chrysalis was weaker than evil Twilight, which is likely an equal to Twilight. Tirek with Discords power up is hard to guess. I would say it is very probable he was buffed to above Chrysalis though (but still weaker than Sombra was at the time)

So yeah, with the bell evenly distrubuting power. Tirek would be the strongest. And with the pillars magic it is safe to say he is considerably stronger than the other two. Him not growing with the pillars is likely just the writers/animators not wanting to have to deal with giant Tirek walking around again.
 
Also another reason to not even consider Tireks size increase in season 9 is "The Summer Sun Setback" If we still use his size growth in anyway than that random Earth Pony is literally as powerful as Chrysalis was as his growth was equal between them So yeah season 9 was really inconsistent with that compared to s4. I guess that one Earth pony is also just a potential secret badass.
 
Drunkfrank said:
Also another reason to not even consider Tireks size increase in season 9 is "The Summer Sun Setback"
If we still use his size growth in anyway than that random Earth Pony is literally as powerful as Chrysalis was as his growth was equal between them So yeah season 9 was really inconsistent with that compared to s4. I guess that one Earth pony is also just a potential secret badass.
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As I've pointed out multiple times already: It just means Tirek was on the verge of getting his third form.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
She's trying to attack her. Her not expecting an attack is an assumption at best. However it's blatantly not speculation that Starlight not only wasn't expecting an attack but had her back turned.

The burn mark is completely gone when we see her again. At best it burned some fur, not her skin.

It absolutely would've changed if she was at full power. Having more of her full power makes her more able to defend herself. A man who just ran for half a day straight without rest isn't taking a punch as well as a person who is fully rested and not tired. Both their stamina and durability are going to be affected.
Click to expand...
It's possible that she wouldn't have take damage, I suppose. But that would be because she would shield if she was on guard. However you slice it, Starlight is not Chrysalis level. She either got knocked out or seriously hurt, while Chrysalis never actually got damaged by anything that hit her.
 
Bell powered the Trio up to Alicorn levels and Cozy probably could've taken a Princess one-on-one while Tirek and Chrysalis clearly could contend with Twilight, Starlight, and Starswirl.

I'd say by virtue of scaling, Chrysalis is definitely around her love-powered stats and could go higher given she could probably still take love if she wanted to like Tirek to add onto her already Alicorn level stats.
 
GokuSparkle said:
Lightbuster30 said:
She's trying to attack her. Her not expecting an attack is an assumption at best. However it's blatantly not speculation that Starlight not only wasn't expecting an attack but had her back turned.

The burn mark is completely gone when we see her again. At best it burned some fur, not her skin.

It absolutely would've changed if she was at full power. Having more of her full power makes her more able to defend herself. A man who just ran for half a day straight without rest isn't taking a punch as well as a person who is fully rested and not tired. Both their stamina and durability are going to be affected.
Click to expand...
It's possible that she wouldn't have take damage, I suppose. But that would be because she would shield if she was on guard. However you slice it, Starlight is not Chrysalis level. She either got knocked out or seriously hurt, while Chrysalis never actually got damaged by anything that hit her.
Click to expand...
Um no, their physical stats are blatantly influenced by their magic. If she wasn't tired from magical exertion she wouldn't have taken as much damage. Wrong. How do you think being on guard works? You can brace yourself and take attacks better if you are focused and aware of what your opponent is doing. You will take more damage if you do not brace for it. This is a fact.

Again, wrong. She got knocked out when she had her back turned and her guard lowered, and only got injured from a combination of that and exhausting her magic. But hey, if people want to pretend that is the same as getting knocked out at full power and defences at their highest (I reiterate that this is completely unrelated to energy shields since the concept called "bracing" exists) then they can go ahead. Not gonna make it true. She would've taken less damage, end of story.

And yet Chrysalis couldn't stop the force of Starlight's blast from knocking her back. Starlight isn;t doing that if she's not remotely in the same league as her. The only argument is the completely baseless assumption that she wasn't expecting it. Which is again, baseless.
 
Statements don't mean much and script statements that didn't make it in the episode matter even less.

buuut, Thorax in the script says that "Chrysalis is more powerful than ever. There's no telling what she'll do if she gets ahold of us" Anywho, I mean you can say Tirek was just on the verge of final form if you wish but based on SSB and the finale it's pretty clear Tireks growth is mostly inconsistent when it comes to power scaling in s9
 
Drunkfrank said:
Statements don't mean much and script statements that didn't make it in the episode matter even less.
buuut, Thorax in the script says that "Chrysalis is more powerful than ever. There's no telling what she'll do if she gets ahold of us" Anywho, I mean you can say Tirek was just on the verge of final form if you wish but based on SSB and the finale it's pretty clear Tireks growth is mostly inconsistent when it comes to power scaling in s9
Click to expand...
It's pretty not clear if you payed attention to the simple fact his second form needed three towns of ponies to hit his third form in Season 4, which suggests his forms can vary in power based on how much magic he absorbs. He doesn't automatically grow everytime he absorbs magic, only after absorbing a set amount of it.
 
To go more into details with on vs off-guard: Being off guard means you are relaxed and so is your body. Everything is loose when off-guard or not in combat or not expecting something. When on guard and on the defensive, you are more tense and your body harder. This naturally allows you to take and absorb damage better than if your body is loose.

To use an example: If you have a buddy punch you in the gut or head while you brace for it, it isn't nearly as bad as if he surprises you when you're not looking, right? If you don't see the punch your brains are getting scrambled far worse than if you have a split second to tense up. When you tense, your muscles absorb some of the shock. When you're loose, the head snaps and the brain bounces around the walls of your skull.

Taking an impact is just better if you are aware it's coming in general.
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
Bell powered the Trio up to Alicorn levels and Cozy probably could've taken a Princess one-on-one while Tirek and Chrysalis clearly could contend with Twilight, Starlight, and Starswirl.
I'd say by virtue of scaling, Chrysalis is definitely around her love-powered stats and could go higher given she could probably still take love if she wanted to like Tirek to add onto her already Alicorn level stats.
Click to expand...
Considering her form actually changed, I'd think she's at least a decent amount stronger than her post-love absorption form.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
Um no, their physical stats are blatantly influenced by their magic. If she wasn't tired from magical exertion she wouldn't have taken as much damage. Wrong. How do you think being on guard works? You can brace yourself and take attacks better if you are focused and aware of what your opponent is doing. You will take more damage if you do not brace for it. This is a fact.

Again, wrong. She got knocked out when she had her back turned and her guard lowered, and only got injured from a combination of that and exhausting her magic. But hey, if people want to pretend that is the same as getting knocked out at full power and defences at their highest (I reiterate that this is completely unrelated to energy shields since the concept called "bracing" exists) then they can go ahead. Not gonna make it true. She would've taken less damage, end of story.

And yet Chrysalis couldn't stop the force of Starlight's blast from knocking her back. Starlight isn;t doing that if she's not remotely in the same league as her. The only argument is the completely baseless assumption that she wasn't expecting it. Which is again, baseless.
Click to expand...
Maybe you're right. I have some arguments, but in the end, it's speculation more than anything. So this just proves even more (since Twilight scales to Starlight) that season 9 Twilight is 4-C/High 4-C.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
To go more into details with on vs off-guard: Being off guard means you are relaxed and so is your body. Everything is loose when off-guard or not in combat or not expecting something. When on guard and on the defensive, you are more tense and your body harder. This naturally allows you to take and absorb damage better than if your body is loose.

To use an example: If you have a buddy punch you in the gut or head while you brace for it, it isn't nearly as bad as if he surprises you when you're not looking, right? If you don't see the punch your brains are getting scrambled far worse than if you have a split second to tense up. When you tense, your muscles absorb some of the shock. When you're loose, the head snaps and the brain bounces around the walls of your skull.

Taking an impact is just better if you are aware it's coming in general.
Click to expand...
I just wanted to note that Starlight did glance back right before Chrysalis' shock wave explosion hit her, so the "caught off guard" thing doesn't really apply to that scenario. Though it does apply to the example in 25.
 
GokuSparkle said:
Lightbuster30 said:
To go more into details with on vs off-guard: Being off guard means you are relaxed and so is your body. Everything is loose when off-guard or not in combat or not expecting something. When on guard and on the defensive, you are more tense and your body harder. This naturally allows you to take and absorb damage better than if your body is loose.

To use an example: If you have a buddy punch you in the gut or head while you brace for it, it isn't nearly as bad as if he surprises you when you're not looking, right? If you don't see the punch your brains are getting scrambled far worse than if you have a split second to tense up. When you tense, your muscles absorb some of the shock. When you're loose, the head snaps and the brain bounces around the walls of your skull.

Taking an impact is just better if you are aware it's coming in general.
Click to expand...
I just wanted to note that Starlight did glance back right before Chrysalis' shock wave explosion hit her, so the "caught off guard" thing doesn't really apply to that scenario. Though it does apply to the example in 25.
Click to expand...
It debatably does. She had immenesly less than a second from the time she turned her head and the time the explosion hit her. Muscle tensing (and magic reinforcment since they can clearly control their output) doesn't happen instantly. Don't get me wrong, it can happen pretty fast, but I'm not sure if it's fast enough. The first hit is more open ended.
 
I watched it frame by frame. Starlight had less than an eye blinks time to tense her muscles. More importantly, she also had her magic defenses down as well, which gives her the problem of focusing on two defenses at one time on top of having no clue what Chrysalis is doing..
 
Wait, why ISN'T Base Rainbow Massively FTL+? She's literally the fastest pony in Equestria. She's always been shown as able to react to the highest tier attacks and ponies.
 
GokuSparkle said:
Wait, why ISN'T Base Rainbow Massively FTL+? She's literally the fastest pony in Equestria. She's always been shown as able to react to the highest tier attacks and ponies.
Click to expand...
I've never seen her react to a top tier attack once beyond an outlier for outpacing Tempest's bombs.
 
I guess maybe because ponies' combat/reaction speeds are MFTL+, but not travel speeds

But yeah I don't really remember Rainbow dodging anything MFTL+, though it would make sense that she could...
 
Frieza force soldier 100 said:
We know she's very fast. That doesn't mean others can't be faster even if we never see it in show. Do you think she's faster than Spitfire, Discord, or Celestia?
Click to expand...
Well, I'm not sure about Discord, but yes, she's probably faster than Celestia and Spitfire. Celestia has honestly no speed feats.
 
Okay, let's talk about that. First off, Lightning Dust's record on the Dizzytron (or whatever it's called) is only half a second behind dash's, even though the device was set at maximum dizziness in her case when it wasn't for Dash. Now than, correct me if I'm wrong, but returning only half a second later than Dash when she was much dizzier implies that she's faster than her, right? Next, Celestia is extraordinarily more powerful than her. Now than, correct me if I'm wrong, but if a character is extraordinarily more powerful than another, powerscaling assumes they are also faster, right? Also, if you think about it, Discord can teleport halfway across Equestria with a literal snap of his fingers, so that technically makes him the fastest character in the series.
 
That's debatable, but anyways, Dash has probably gotten faster since then. Also, does that mean Twilight is much faster than Rainbow because she's tier 4? No. Dash is literally someone that has spent her whole life flying, and it's literally her talent. Celestia seems to mostly be a sedentary being, so I doubt she's faster. She even said at the end of Sonic Rainboom that Rainbow is the best flyer in Equestria. And teleportation isn't speed. That's like saying Goku since the Android Saga has infinite speed due to instant transmission. Rainbow's travel, reaction, combat, etc. speed, is what I was talking about.
 
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