My Little Pony: Equestria Girls Upgrade Top-Tiers : " At least Low 2-C "

[Lightbuster30]

@Light That part could always either be PIS, or just a Pony not caring considering the magical stuff that goes in Equestria on a regular basis. Also a regular pony wouldn't really know what was going on anyways.

A world full of new hairless Apes and what appaears to be a Daemon attacking people? C'mon man. I'm gonna need a whole lot more than that to accept PIS.

"EDIT"

They don't have to know whats going on to respond. It's one thing to go about your day. It's another to act like you literally can't see it. No shift in facial expressions. Not even a raised eyebrow or anything. PIS is way too big of a stretch for me.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Anyway, should we go with Low 2-C Gloriosa in lack of better options/further staff input then?

I think so. Plus, Darkanine did agree with Gloriosa scaling, so we do have a very knowledgable member voicing his agreement (Even if off-site, and former member).

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Is that fine with you Medeus?

 

[PeaceOnTheRise]

Why is Gloriosa being 4-B/4-A not a potentially better option? She still doesn't have any factual Low 2-C feats. My example with Big Mac was a joke meant to demonstrate how ridiculous can things get if we only go by the immediate narrative, which is the main basis for Low 2-C here.

Even if a single element failing to activate against Discord is not proof enough of exponential increase, we still have Sunset with the crown being relatively weak (which is unexplainable without bringing up either the EoH evolution or the exponential increase theory) and Gloriosa herself becoming much stronger after picking up two last geode shards, which wouldn't make sense if she just added 2/7th of their combined power to what she already had. I still go with the exponential theory.

The magic absorbed from HuMane Six only started displaying reality tearing powers after Sci-Twi drained the portal. Even if we take into consideration that Midnight still got beaten by the power of 6 (I'm counting Sunset as well) Elements, that would be a perfect time for their combined power to evolve. And no, I' not going by just their transformation (I only brought it up because you did when talking about the geodes). We currently have two alternatives:

1) The EoH have been Low 2-C for quite some time before FG, which makes the Dazzlings (who'd normally be 4-B) Low 2-C purely because of how they stood up against the Elements.

2) Both the Dazzlings and the combined EoH have been 4-B throughout RR and most of FG. The EoH's combined power evolved in the climax to combat Midnight. Their individual powers could have somewhat evolved as well, but not to the Low 2-C level (at least as far as HuMane 5 goes).

I prefer the second one because the entire scaling can easily be traced down to Midnight's concrete feats. It also provides Dazzlings a consistent tier, without needing to artificially make them stronger just for this one fight for a later movie to make sense.

Meanwhile, Promestein has provided her input on Gloriosa and Midnight in LoE.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3795820#2

 

[Lightbuster30]

She agreed without hearing any context other than you trying to use the same arguments you used on me. And she's someone who explicitly has little knowledge on the verse to begin with. A knowledgeable staff member is more reliable.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I will attempt a more proper response when home at the computer. I'm not doing this over the phone.

 

[PeaceOnTheRise]

Then we need to qualify which staff members from the Antvasima list are knowledgeable on the verse.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Darkanine is the only knowledgeable member who still gives commentary. He may not be staff anymore, but his word was highly trusted on My Little Pony. Aside from Medeus and Ant, he's the only knowledgeable member on the verse still willing to comment. If I came frank: My Little Pony is kinda screwed over considering the lack of staff members with in depth knowledge.

 

[ÆONS]

Your reasoning based off of a pony in Equestria does not make sense to me. You cannot conclude the speed/rate of the rifts because of a perspective of that one pony because there are many possible reasons behind his dismissiveness. The first, and most obvious reason, was they were familiar with the magic displayed to them since they seen much more threatening things before. Between facing Discord's crazy reality warping magic, Twilight messing up the day and night cycles by accident, Tirek fodderizing everyone, the Windigoes, Princess freaking Celestia getting one-shotted by a changeling they never heard of before. Yet they were completely resolved because of the heroines and their magic of friendship. In fact that can also be another reason why he did not react, he may have expected the OG Mane 6 to fix everything and stop the rifts because that was what they always have specialized in, resolving gigantic incidents. He may have thought that things can go back to normal because of them. Either way, the bottom line is that we cannot infer the speed/rate the portals based off of a pony's reaction because of multitudes of reasons, it could be added for almost no reason other than some hidden humor, which is undeniable. In fact, it implies that the EqG villains are weaker than who they faced, but that is another headcannon and I think it should not be used. Hence, I think his reactions should be considered an outlier, we can go on forever about this but it won't reach a conclusion.

 

[Lightbuster30]

.

It is a moot point anyhow. After re-watching the battle, it turns out they did respond tp the portals. That was entirely my bad. The first time I watched the scene it looked like none them responded.
However, I want to make one thing clear: Constantly experiencing weirdness does not excuse what I thought was total lack of reactions. The ponies the ponies have nowhere near reached a point of "Oh, reality is collapsing in on itself. Interesting". In other words: Total desensitization.

That said, my previous point still stands.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yes, I do support the upgrade to Low 2-C.

 

[Firestorm808]

I understand the reasoning for Magic of Friendship = Low 2-C, but why are we saying that the individual Powered-up Dazzlings and Pony-ups are Low 2-C? Shouldn't they only scale from Starswirl?

 

[Lightbuster30]

Minor thing, but according to Darkanine, the Elements growing and evolving is way overthinking stuff. He says that them evolving isn't really concrete and shouldn't be used.

@The 2nd Existential Seed where did you even get the idea the Elements evolve from?

 

[ÆONS]

Even if what you said is indeed true it is still not right to base the rate of growth of the rifts because of the observations and reactions of the ponies in their universe. They can feel sad, happy, terrified, or whatever their reactions should not impact the progression of the rifts in any way. Midnight was tearing apart the two realities and was going to destroy them both lest she was not stopped (Which was considered to be a roughly 2-C feat). I don't care about how the humans or ponies feel, their reactions change nothing. We cannot infer the progression of the rifts based off of their reactions, we need to literally observe how those rifts specifically were growing and developing.

As to address Firestorm's point, what I got from Seed was that Sunset Shimmer got the power of 5 of the 6 elements and she became Daydream, which is her Tier 2 form, and fought Midnight Sparkle. The Dazzlings overpowered all 6 of the elements and the character's pony-up forms, they were only defeated when Sunset joins the group and they yeet them to oblivion by summoning Big Mama Celestia. There was also little indication the H.U. Elements evolved after the Dazzling's clash with the heroines and Sunset becoming a Sun God, so I guess they could be used as a sort of proof that the Mane 6 were Tier 2. Though since Light made a comment that Darkanine suggested we should not count something like this, the only other person we can use to scale is Starswirl. And it's shown rather clearly that they were way stronger than the time Starswirl banished them to the H.U. so a possible tier would be "At least 4-B (Scales to Starswirl and are considerably stronger than him), possibly/likely far higher (Assuming we can use the previous explanation about the Dazzlings overpowering more elements than Daydream possessed, I only put far higher rather than Low-C or 2-C just because of what Darkanine said and I am in conflict with Light. I am not even that sure if what Seed said about it was legitimate and completely warrants a Tier 2 key so yeah.)

 

[Lightbuster30]

1.

2. There was also little indication the H.U. Elements evolved after the Dazzling's clash with the heroines and Sunset becoming a Sun God, so I guess they could be used as a sort of proof that the Mane 6 were Tier 2. Though since Light made a comment that Darkanine suggested we should not count something like this,
1. That was mainly in response to Seed trying to use their reactions as proof Equestria was being affected at the same rate anyways. Not like it matters seeing as I've conceded to this specific point.

2. Sorry, but mind elaborating a bit here? As in, the Humane 6? And where does Starswirl fit in here? Are we talking about the Dazzlings before absorbing negativity from the Humane 6?

 

[ÆONS]

1.

2. There was also little indication the H.U. Elements evolved after the Dazzling's clash with the heroines and Sunset becoming a Sun God, so I guess they could be used as a sort of proof that the Mane 6 were Tier 2. Though since Light made a comment that Darkanine suggested we should not count something like this,

1. That was mainly in response to Seed trying to use their reactions as proof Equestria was being affected at the same rate anyways. Not like it matters seeing as I've conceded to this specific point.
2. Sorry, but mind elaborating a bit here? As in, the Humane 6? And where does Starswirl fit in here? Are we talking about the Dazzlings before absorbing negativity from the Humane 6?

1. Okay.

2. The Humane 6 yes. I was using Starswirl because Firestorm suggested it and because he is the only character besides Sunset and Twilight who were P.U. residents to interact with the Dazzlings/Sirens and was the one to fight and banish them to the H.U. in the first place so yeah.

 

[Lightbuster30]

So what do you mean"they could be tier 2"? You backed up on what you said afterwords and said we shouldn't count it based on what Darkanine said. All Darkanine said was that we shouldn't say the Elements were growing stronger because it's overthinking things.

 

[ÆONS]

So what do you mean"they could be tier 2"? You backed up on what you said afterwords and said we shouldn't count it based on what Darkanine said. All Darkanine said was that we shouldn't say the Elements were growing stronger because it's overthinking things.

Is that so? Okay then. I'm still going to wait for Seed's input about this since he was the person I got such conclusions from to begin with.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I'd like to know where he even got it from. I have a vague idea though.

 

[Firestorm808]

Here's how I see the scaling should be:

Likely 4-B = Starswirl < Prime Dazzzling < Powered-Up Dazzling < Pony Up < Gloriosa < Sci-Twi Pony Up

Low 2-C = Midnight Sparkle = Daydream Shimmer < or = Magic of Friendship Laser

It's not likely that Pony Up Sci-Twi still has the Low 2-C magic of Mignight Sparkle in the same way Sunset Shimmer doesn't have the same magic as Daydream Shimmer.

 

[Lightbuster30]

"It's not likely" is pure headcanon. Especially when Midnight's plan is to go back to doing what she's doing in the Friendship games. That's not happening if she's 4-B when she takes over Twilight. This is made all too clear. Midnight isn't pulling that magic out of nowhere. She's not going to turn into Midnight and BAM! Low 2-C again. It's gotta come from somewhere.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Oh, and unlike Twilight, Sunset didn't have an alter ego living inside her mind constantly threatening to take over and go back to tearing apart the world when they escaped. Bad comparison. Very very bad comparison.

 

[Firestorm808]

Okay, but you agree that the other Pony-Up forms aren't Low 2-C, yes?

 

[Lightbuster30]

I don't know how strong the pony up forms are. I know that via scaling to the Dazzlings they individually have near Low 2-C durability via taking their combined attack. "Near" Becuase you'd have to divide the AP between each of the Rainbooms. I'd give them "unknown" individually, save for human Twilight.

"The Dazzlings aren't-" Yes they are. Darkanine is perfectly fine with my reasoning for the Pony Elements scaling and the Human Elements haven't done anything that justifies randomly growing infinitely stronger than their Pony counterparts.

 

[Firestorm808]

So at least 4-B, possibly Low 2-C?

 

[Lightbuster30]

So at least 4-B, possibly Low 2-C?

For now. I'm working on something that makes it a huge possibility of straight up Low 2-C. But that all depends on if I ever get it accepted. It would definitely make Discord's "all reality" statements legit. I know that. And if we can get that legit, then the Pony Elements have all the more reason to scale to the Human ones. Wouldn't change the final result, but would give it more support.

 

[Antvasima]

So what is left to do in this thread?

 

[PeaceOnTheRise]

If we throw the evolution theory out entirely, I guess everyone who ever resisted the combined Elements in any way would get a Tier 2. Still doesn't necessarily mean Gloriosa is Low 2-C. You could ask Darkanine or other staff members about the exponential growth theory.

 

[Lightbuster30]

If we throw the evolution theory out entirely, I guess everyone who ever resisted the combined Elements in any way would get a Tier 2. Still doesn't necessarily mean Gloriosa is Low 2-C. You could ask Darkanine or other staff members about the exponential growth theory.

That could just be outliers for those people. But if I ever get my my newest project accepted, they won't be.

 

[Antvasima]

So what is left to do in this thread?

^

 

[ÆONS]

Nothing, shut it down.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Before we do it, am I free to edit the Pony Elements since the "evolving and growing stronger" is apparently bunk? That was the reason why Seed said they shouldn't scale.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I would say so, but it is safer to ask them about it first.

 

[Firestorm808]

Are we downgrading the pony up Humane 6 excluding Sci Twi to At least 4-B, possibly Low 2-C?

 

[Lightbuster30]

Are we downgrading the pony up Humane 6 excluding Sci Twi to At least 4-B, possibly Low 2-C?

Not sure why we'd do that. Are you talking about the fact that they wouldn't be Low 2-C individually? Because in that case, an "unknown" rating is probably much better suited.

 

[Firestorm808]

Yes.

Sunset's profile has the following for her Pony-Up key.

At least Universe level+ (Comparable to the Pony-Up forms of Twilight Sparkle and Rarity who each fought evenly against a Powered-Up Dazzling, higher with the Magic of Friendship (One shotted all three Powered-Up Dazzlings)

We've agreed that the Magic of Friendship, Daydream, Midnight, and Pony-Up Sci-Twi are Low 2-C. The other characters individually are some unknown degree lower but stronger than Starswirl.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Bump.

That was back when the feat was considered extremely close to 2-C, which would still actually be really close to 2-C [since they are affecting both realities] , just not as close as previously noted ... Hence why I believe they individually could be Low 2-Cs of considerable magnitude.

Also I remember from a while ago, from a Dragon Ball Heroes storyline, back when upgrading them to 2-B was merely a possibility, affecting two universes minimally, in the almost exact same circumstance as the feat we have, was considered 2-C. The context was literally "they were affecting two universes", no context on affecting their totality or anything profound [with one world being on the verge and the other... not so much, just like this situation] , was considered 2-C by a knowledgable member of Tier 2.

 

[Antvasima]

So should we place them at "Unknown" tiering individually then?

Also, I think that a new thread seems more appropriate in order to scale the pony world Elements of Harmony.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Can't we just do this now? I'm really not in the mood to debate this all over again. Arguments for it have already been made. Now's the perfect time to analyze them, especially when arguments about the Pony Elements were made in the opening post itself. And to be honest, Seed shouldn't have said anything about it in the first place. Yeah, he's in support now but it shouldn't have been said to begin with.

 

[Antvasima]

It is not the main topic, and it is much easier to get new staff contributors if the thread is not very long.