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My Hero Academia - Scaling Revisions [Top Tier Edition]

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Machia was in bad shape from the sedative. He even stated before falling down that all of his strength was gone. That doesn't really mean anything for Endeavor.
 
Then something isn't right here. Nejire is complete AP base hero just like Endeavor yet even he had immense trouble going against Hood and the only way for him to even beat it was to use his full power (I will assume he could had done that from the beginning but since there are people around he was forced to hold back)

Those NHEs are suppose to be comparable to Hood, which means Nejire is legit in the same leagues as Endeavor which doesn't make sense
 
It doesn't mess up any scaling, no one scales to Nejire's AP.

Provide some evidence that this messes up the scaling.
 
TheRustyOne said:
It doesn't mess up any scaling, no one scales to Nejire's AP.

Provide some evidence that this messes up the scaling.
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calm down dude lol I got rid of the last sentence because I also realized it wouldnt mess up scaling, but this doesn't change the fact of what I said above so plz dont ignore what I also said before that
 
Nothing I stated there implied any aggression?

Nejire still scales, you've yet to provide any proof that Nejire can't scale beyond you not liking it, or that she's a student. Those aren't arguments, you need to provide a scene of Nejire's AP being vastly inferior to Hood level opponents. Or some kind of statement that makes her not scale.

Saying it doesn't make sense to you is not a argument.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Nothing I stated there implied any aggression?

Nejire still scales, you've yet to provide any proof that Nejire can't scale beyond you not liking it, or that she's a student. Those aren't arguments, you need to provide a scene of Nejire's AP being vastly inferior to Hood level opponents. Or some kind of statement that makes her not scale.

Saying it doesn't make sense to you is not a argument.
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I literally did though??? I already said to above too. Nejire being Low 7-B+ wouldnt make sense by the fact that the NHE (who are comparable to Hood) gets taken down by Nejire yet Endeavor had to beat that same Hood with his full power

Pretty much Nejire with Wave >= Endeavor (Full Power)
 
She didn't take it down, what are you talking about?

She harmed it, she didn't killing it or knock it out, her attack seemed to injure it. Why are you comparing Endeavor and Nejire, there's nothing in universe that compares them to each other. Nothing says Nejire's AP can't be on the same tier as Endeavor or the others. I refuse to response to you again until you actually provide a proper argument.

As I do not want to waste anyone's time.
 
There is no evidence that any of the NHE or other High-ends scale to Hood physically beyond the base stats.

Again "comparable" doesn't mean the exact same physical strength to Horikoshi otherwise he would have given all the High-ends strength enhancing quirks.

Hood has like 4 of them while Helmet has none, this makes him not only physically inferior to Hood but even the other High-ends Mirko fought.

However, he is considered "comparable" since he has spatial manip which is arguably more dangerous.

If a character in MHA can restrain or go toe toe in a fist fight with Helmet, it does not suddenly mean that they are comparable to Hood in a fist fight or strength contest.

And the same probably goes for all the other HEs and NHEs. Quirks is too varied of a power system for people to make physical strength the only metric for "comparable".
 
TheRustyOne said:
She didn't take it down, what are you talking about?

She harmed it, she didn't killing it or knock it out, her attack seemed to injure it. Why are you comparing Endeavor and Nejire, there's nothing in universe that compares them to each other. Nothing says Nejire's AP can't be on the same tier as Endeavor or the others. I refuse to response to you again until you actually provide a proper argument.

As I do not want to waste anyone's time.
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If u honestly cant see what im saying then theres an issue right there. I legit gave u an argument and for some odd reason u refuse to even see what I mean. The mere fact she could harm an NHE while Endeavor couldn't unless he used his FP says so much
 
Nejire didn't just harm a NHE, she restrained one too at the end of the fight by pinning it with her waves. And she did it long enough to speak out a sentence.
 
Gitagon said:
There is no evidence that any of the NHE or other High-ends scale to Hood physically beyond the base stats.

Again "comparable" doesn't mean the exact same physical strength to Horikoshi otherwise he would have given all the High-ends strength enhancing quirks.

Hood has like 4 of them while Helmet has none, this makes him not only physically inferior to Hood but even the other High-ends Mirko fought.

However, he is considered "comparable" since he has spatial manip which is arguably more dangerous.

If a character in MHA can restrain or go toe toe in a fist fight with Helmet, it does not suddenly mean that they are comparable to Hood in a fist fight or strength contest.

And the same probably goes for all the other HEs and NHEs. Quirks is too varied of a power system for people to make physical strength the only metric for "comparable".
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Then why is Nejire Low 7-B+ with her waves? im not trying to dig out at anyone here because I know thats how Horikoshi does things, but im a bit confused then if Nejire fought someone who is "comparable" in a different way
 
Gitagon said:
Nejire didn't just harm a NHE, she restrained one too at the end of the fight by pinning it with her waves. And she did it long enough to speak out a sentence.
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She probably harmed it, since we can't be to sure we settled on a possibly. But it seems to be struggling against her, and was trying to move.
 
BlackeJan said:
Then why is Nejire Low 7-B+ with her waves? im not trying to dig out at anyone here because I know thats how Horikoshi does things, but im a bit confused then if Nejire fought someone who is "comparable" in a different way
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Unlike the High-ends Mirko fought, we don't really know the specific quirks of the Near High-ends.

Hori did reveal some of the quirks of the Hospital High-ends in the recent Volume so the same might be done for the Near High-ends in the next volume.
 
I don't really understand what the problem is here, the Near High-Ends were stated to be as strong as Hood, so the complete hospital High-Ends would obviously scale as well.
 
They were stated to be as strong as Hood, that's a clear statement of strength.

There's nothing to discuss, unless you have proof Mirio is wrong. Everyone saw Hood's strength on tv and fight Endeavor.
 
So are we just ignoring that Endeavor was toasting Hood the entire fight until Hood got a cheap shot in by tearing his head off?

Like, where is this stipulation that Nejire is stronger than Endeavor coming from just cause she can fight Hood level, mindless Nomu? Endeavor literally was one shotting Hospital High Ends when he went for their heads, and that's ignoring the basic properties of: Fire Hot, It Kill Easier.

This belief that Nejire can't be in Endeavor's tier, when Endeavor himself has better showings than literally every non AFO/OFA hero, is beyond me.
 
These characters being in the same tier is not the same as them being superior or comparable in similar situations. That's like saying anyone that is star level in dragon ball can beat anyone else that is star level in dragon ball.
 
TheRustyOne said:
They were stated to be as strong as Hood, that's a clear statement of strength.

There's nothing to discuss, unless you have proof Mirio is wrong. Everyone saw Hood's strength on tv and fight Endeavor.
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Yep are we also can’t forget after Mirio said they’re comparable to Hood he said that you can’t get tagged by those things or your done
Clearly talking about strength even if they’re inferior to an extent due to not having a Strength Amp like Hood has
 
If you want my honest opinion on characters scaling to weakened All Might? It's more like most of them downscale heavily instead of just being comparable. They're only really strong enough to give All Might a run for his money, but once he gets serious? They probably wouldn't stand much of a chance. Don't get me wrong, they're still in the same tier technically and would be able to damage All Might, it's just that it would probably take only a few dozen, if not several hits from All Might to really heavily damage them.

Endeavor, while powerful, lacks the speed necessary to really contend with All Might, as he needed to push himself and his quirk beyond his limits, along with Hawks' support to even stand a chance against Hood.

And this is ignoring the fact that Weakened All Might is VASTLY weaker compared to when All Might was still at full power. (Before he transferred One for All to Deku). To the public eyes? The difference between pre and post transferal All Might is probably minimal, if not unnoticeable at all, but to us the readers? The only reason All Might was still considered the strongest is that even in his weakened state, he remains amongst one of if not the most powerful characters in the series. No one could really rival him if we factored in all of his stats.

If All for One is capable of cranking out Nomu's that can contend with All Might, while he himself struggled to fight All Might at full power, it just says something about how weakened both characters really are.

So while, yes, some of the characters are within the excess of Low 7-B, the excess would probably be very small if not baseline. With the exceptions being Shigaraki, Endeavor, and Mirko to an extent. (Although she got heavily injured by just combatting a few of the High-Ends.)
 
Therefir said:
I don't really understand what the problem is here, the Near High-Ends were stated to be as strong as Hood, so the complete hospital High-Ends would obviously scale as well.
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To be fair, saying a character is strong in mha doesn't translate solidly to AP. Characters saw DS's speed coupled with his seeming lack of weaknesses and Tokoyami's ability to just avoid danger and concluded him as incredibly strong and seemingly invincible. Todoroki is also considered crazy strong "stronger than most pros" but his raw AP is inferior to Bakugo and others like 5% Deku who never received such accolades at the time.

The metric of strength can mean how difficult they are to beat or how much raw power they have and even then power isn't limited to big booms.
 
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For Mirko and Endeavor, they both took high damage from their fights with the High-ends. For Mirko, she does have the speed and strength to hang with them and while she could gravely injure them, they have regen. She also got injured when Woman palmed her in the face.

For Endeavor, I'd even say his AP is straight up > High-ends, his dura is impressive but still, without regen, he can't really fight protracted fights with them. Then there's obviously his shit stamina with Flashfire. His speed is also not up to par.

Endeavor is actually an AP monster especially with what we have seen with Prominence Burn. It's his other stats: speed, durability & especially stamina that prevent him from being All Might level, not simply power.

All Might has really well rounded stats. Even against USJ Nomu, he only took damage from direct blows to his weak spot. He could tank his own strength being reflected back at him + AFO's own strength and only then did his arm get injured. Rivet Stab which f**led up Bakugo and Endeavor couldn't even pierce his skin.

Add speed onto that + his own attack power. For strength types, affecting air pressure is a big marker in this series.

A lot of the other top tiers have only 1 stat maxed out while lagging behind in others.

Hawks - Speed maxed out. Weak AP and dura.

Jeanist - in terms of restraining which I guess is AP, he is near the top but obviously dura and speed aren't his strong points.

Of course all this is in comparison with All Might.
 
Can you guys me your opinion on their strength with numbers? Since they're scaling to 3.9 MT, use that as the baseline.

USJ Nomu>3.9 MT since the All Might he was equal to was an unknown amount stronger than his fight with Wolfram. While Kamino All Might and AFO are<3.9 MT as All Might's power got weaker, though not enough to go below Low 7-B+. Low 7-B+ starts at 3.65 MT, which is where I'd put Kamino All Might and AFO.

Where would you place everyone who scales to Low 7-B? Who's above or below 3.9 MT?
 
TheRustyOne said:
Can you guys me your opinion on their strength with numbers? Since they're scaling to 3.9 MT, use that as the baseline.

USJ Nomu>3.9 MT since the All Might he was equal to was an unknown amount stronger than his fight with Wolfram. While Kamino All Might and AFO are<3.9 MT as All Might's power got weaker, though not enough to go below Low 7-B+. Low 7-B+ starts at 3.65 MT, which is where I'd put Kamino All Might and AFO.

Where would you place everyone who scales to Low 7-B? Who's above or below 3.9 MT?
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That's kinda hard to do.

I think Nejire would be low end small city. She could pin a NHE but we don't know it's quirks. It might've had less raw strength than Hood.

Endeavor ignores dura so he's kinda irrelevant but if we're talking dura he should downscale a lot as well since he coughed blood from Hood's direct hits or got pierced through. Whatever his durability is it'd scale significantly below 3.9 maybe to the same degree as Nejire's AP. Him taking blows from Shiggy is weird since the Air Cannon to the face was from a disoriented Shigaraki who was getting his skin burned off. The next hit was likley not serious as Shigaraki took the time to pose and taunt him. Last hit was just a graze rather than a full blow.

Mirko can tear through High Ends so she should be above 3.9. Maybe like 5 MT. However most of the Hospital High Ends lack enhancer quirks and the only one we see who does has just 1 bulk up ability. So she could end up scaling lower. Whatever she scales to though it should be above Endeavor's durability.
 
You want my opinion?

100% Deku >> Shigaraki >= USJ AM = Endeavor/Mirko AP > High-Ends >=< 45% Deku > USJ Nomu > 3.9 MT feat > Kamino AM/AFO > Everyone's durability > Nejire

Edit: Endeavor/Mirko rip High Ends apart so they're higher
 
45% Deku unironically has the best dura feats among anyone that scales to Low 7-B off High Ends/Shigaraki but he hasn't really hit anyone at 45% so idk where he's at truly
 
Insert_creative_name_here_12 said:
Oh yeah I've been meaning to ask this, but where's it said Deku's 100% has been increasing in power?
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Idk if his 100% specifically is stated to be increasing in power, but it's at least heavily implied that the power itself has just been getting stronger the longer he holds it, as it is intended to work.

For instance, the emergence of the users was due to the quirk not only being passed, but also the added strength Deku has put into at, as the first says that they only recently gained the abilities they now have due to the power going past a certain point.

So naturally, if the power is increasing, the amount he's using is also increasing.

There's also him beating up Shigaraki who was supposed to be at the least USJ All Might tier who is unknowingly stronger than the 3.9 MT feat. So he went from being somewhere weaker than USJ AM to being able to rock someone on his levels shit, and would've killed him if he didn't have regen.
 
Insert_creative_name_here_12 said:
Oh yeah I've been meaning to ask this, but where's it said Deku's 100% has been increasing in power?
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One For All getting stronger over time is the main basis of the Quirk, as All Might explained to Deku using torches.

I also doubt All Might's 100% was as strong as when he got the Quirk from Nana.
 
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Kingofwolves999 said:
Idk if his 100% specifically is stated to be increasing in power, but it's at least heavily implied that the power itself has just been getting stronger the longer he holds it, as it is intended to work.

For instance, the emergence of the users was due to the quirk not only being passed, but also the added strength Deku has put into at, as the first says that they only recently gained the abilities they now have due to the power going past a certain point.

So naturally, if the power is increasing, the amount he's using is also increasing.

There's also him beating up Shigaraki who was supposed to be at the least USJ All Might tier who is unknowingly stronger than the 3.9 MT feat. So he went from being somewhere weaker than USJ AM to being able to rock someone on his levels shit, and would've killed him if he didn't have regen.
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Yeah you’re right. Checked the chapters and the first notes OFA grew rapidly before the 4 month skip
 
One thing the anime did in All Might vs USJ Nomu that I loved is showing USJ Nomus's arm rippling when he went fist to fist with All Might while the latter's arm remained stationery.

This shows that All Might's AP is >>>>> USJ Nomu but the latter was able to hang due to Shock Absorption.

Also the speed upgrade Bakugo got is massive since USJ to present day. He went from being a statue to USJ Nomu even when looking right at him to straight up combating opponents of that speed tier easily. Not only his movement speed, but the speed at which he can perceive things increased greatly.
 
Sorry if this is a necro or anything but there is no evidence that the Near High Ends, or even Hood, are anywhere close to USJ Nomu.

USJ Nomu in terms of pure power, is way above them all.
High Ends are only considered better because they have more quirks and are INTELLIGENT, unlike USJ Nomu.

USJ Nomu was completely fine after All Might punched him away. He “lost” because he lacked his own intelligence to return to USJ on his own and Shigaraki didn’t have the means to send him orders from that distance. If he was a High End he would’ve just come back and one punched All Might who now couldnt even take a single step without losing his muscles form.

Basically, in power:

USJ Nomu = Weak All Might >>>>> Endeavour = High End Hood >>> Near High Ends.
 
AtomicSekiro said:
Sorry if this is a necro or anything but there is no evidence that the Near High Ends, or even Hood, are anywhere close to USJ Nomu.

USJ Nomu in terms of pure power, is way above them all.
High Ends are only considered better because they have more quirks and are INTELLIGENT, unlike USJ Nomu.

USJ Nomu was completely fine after All Might punched him away. He “lost” because he lacked his own intelligence to return to USJ on his own and Shigaraki didn’t have the means to send him orders from that distance. If he was a High End he would’ve just come back and one punched All Might who now couldnt even take a single step without losing his muscles form.
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Doctor verbatim says that the High Ends are superior in stats to the Upper Tier Nomu, with a picture of USJ Nomu for reference of what an Upper Tier is. The belief that USJ Nomu is some sort of outlier is fan only belief. He was just built to be strong, fast and immune to blunt damage, which is all AM has, which makes the fight harder.

Being able to create beings on par with weakened, post-losing one for all, at his limit All Might is not exactly far fetched nor does it create some kind of scaling/lore inconsistency. All Might at his best would one tap literally every High End.
 
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