My Hero Academia General Revisions Discussion

[Damage3245]

We don't know how many time has passed between panels, the guy who was frozen is not even there.

And it isn't stated that Todoroki removed the whole thing.

I noticed you used a page from an unofficial translation earlier that said "Todoroki unfroze what he had created" implying he removed the whole thing, but the official translation doesn't use that line. It isn't mentioned at all that he removed the whole thing.

 

[Therefir]

The only logical thing is that Todoroki unfroze that ice, because who else has the power to erase that ice before the next battle? They never said that the matches were suspended until Todoroki or anyone else cleans the stadium.

 

[Damage3245]

The only logical thing is that Todoroki unfroze that ice, because who else has the power to erase that ice before the next battle? They never said that the matches were suspended until Todoroki or anyone else cleans the stadium.

Endeavour is there; and while he might not approve of Todoroki exclusively using his ice in battle up to that point, that isn't a reason for why he wouldn't help with the removal of the ice in the stadium.

> They never said that the matches were suspended until Todoroki or anyone else cleans the stadium.

Well, the matches didn't start again until the ice was cleared.

 

[Therefir]

This is what Izuku said in the anime.

 

[Therefir]

> Endeavour is there; and while he might not approve of Todoroki exclusively using his ice in battle up to that point, that isn't a reason for why he wouldn't help with the removal of the ice in the stadium.

It is hard to believe in Endeavor helping his son after the discussion they had before the fight.

 

[Damage3245]

This is what Izuku said in the anime.

That's not what he said in the official translation of the manga.

 

[Therefir]

It looks more like the other translations, there has to be a reason.

 

[Damage3245]

Putting aside the translation issue; don't you think the the scale of the two feats is completely different? Vaporizing the Giant Ice Wall according you involves spreading his heat over a huge area over several minutes in order to clear it.

The fire blast used against Stain was over a much smaller area, was a lot quicker and Stain didn't withstand the full amount. He only caught the edge of the blast and was knocked out. You can understand why I'm skeptical at Stain being given Building level durability from this (and by extension Izuku and Iida).

 

[Therefir]

My calc takes that into account, if Todoroki had vaporized that ice in one second, then the feat would be 240 tons. 0.40 tons is the amount of power that Todoroki puts out every second to vape the ice in ten minutes, that's why I say the size of the flames doesn't matter, in this feat he doesn't even uses his flames.

 

[Damage3245]

My calc takes that into account, if Todoroki had vaporized that ice in one second, then the feat would be 240 tons. 0.40 tons is the amount of power that Todoroki puts out every second to vape the ice in ten minutes, that's why I say the size of the flames doesn't matter, in this feat he doesn't even uses his flames.

That takes into account how quickly it happens but what about the size? You say that he vaporizes the entire ice structure which covers a huge volume, but that is much, much larger than the first blast he uses against Stain (and once again, Stain is only hit by a portion of that fire blast).

 

[Therefir]

He can spread all that heat on the Giant Ice Wall, but when he attacks, he concentrates all that power to create flames, at least this is what I understand of his power.


I have found 4 manga translations that say something similar to Deku in the anime, I'm starting to think that the official translation ****** up something.

 

[Damage3245]

Or the alternative explanation is that he didn't spread his heat over the entire Giant Ice Wall at once since we never saw him doing that? Melting the apartment at once involving him touching the wall, not the ice, and he could have conducted his heat through the building.

 

[Therefir]

If he didn't spread the heat over the entire Giant Ice Wall, then the top of the ice would be still in the stadium.

Conducting the heat through his ice make makes more sense since it's his quirk.

 

[Damage3245]

No, the top wouldn't be there because the whole thing would be eventually cleared away. He just wouldn't have done it in a single use of his fire side.

> Conducting the heat through the ice make makes more sense since it's his quirk.

His Quirk is generating ice and fire. Not being able to conduct heat through ice simultaneously.

I think, for the sake of consistency, Stain should be rated at 9-A+ for not dying to Todoroki's fire blast. He was still badly burnt, and taken out of the fight, but saying he withstood is being too generous I think.

This would make Izuku's 5% punch at the time Small Building level which is consistent with him having Small Building level durability at the time and not harming himself when he uses Full Cowl. Stain being able to harm Tododroki and the others can be explained by the fact that he was using swords and knives; being slightly tougher than another character doesn't mean swords will just bounce off of you. The way that the force is delivered from a single piering point compared to a widespread shcokwave can explain how he can harm them.

 

[Therefir]

Are you suggesting that Todoroki went to the top of the stadium to be able to clean all the ice? That makes no sense, and he doesn't have the time anyway.

He need to be able to spread his heat through the ice or he could not unfreeze even Sero.

 

[Damage3245]

Are you suggesting that Todoroki went to the top of the stadium to be able to clean all the ice? That makes no sense.
He need to be able to spread his heat through the ice or he could not unfreeze even Sero.

Heat spreads, sure, but not through the whole thing simultaneously. He didn't need to vaporize the whole thing to free Sero.

I'm not saying Todoroki went to the top either; as the bottom of the ice is cleared away then the rest of it would fall without anything to support it.

This is, again, why I think using an offscreen feat is bad. Because we don't see him clearing the whole thing we have to come up with explanations like 'Todoroki vaporized the ice from top to bottom simultaneously'.

 

[Therefir]

> I'm not saying Todoroki went to the top either; as the bottom of the ice is cleared away then the rest of it would fall without anything to support it.

That would kill a lot of people, and would destroy part of the stadium, and that doesn't discredit the feat in any way, since he still vapes the whole ice in a short time.

> This is, again, why I think using an offscreen feat is bad. Because we don't see him clearing the whole thing we have to come up with explanations like 'Todoroki vaporized the ice from top to bottom simultaneously'.

I understand your opinion, but there is a lot of offscreen feats that were calced and can be used, even in the calculation guide says that if you don't have a timeframe, you can assume it.

 

[Damage3245]

>Not only that would kill a lot of people, but that doesn't discret the feat anyways, since still he vapes the whole ice in a short time.

It wouldn't kill a lot of people if the melting process was controlled and if assistance was provided to ensure no ice fell and hurt people.

>I understand your opinion, but there is a lot of offscreen feats that were calced and can be used, even in the calculation guide says that if you don't have a timeframe, you can assume it.

It's not just about the timeframe but having to assume he melted the entire structure simultaneously.

And then assuming he concentrates that huge-reaching heat into a much smaller fire blast in order to make the fire blast more powerful than it appears.

I think until Todoroki gets better on-screen feats of his fire usage, the best case for now would be to downgrade Stain.

 

[Therefir]

> It wouldn't kill a lot of people if the melting process was controlled and if assistance was provided to ensure no ice fell and hurt people

Even if it were controlled, they would have to evacuate all the people in the stadium, that would take a lot of time, and it would also cancel the festival, once again you are making more assumptions than me.

> It's not just about the timeframe but having to assume he melted the entire structure simultaneously.

If he can't melt the whole ice at the same time, then the ice in the top would fall, destroying part of the stadium, and this is assuming that they already evacuated all the people there, but that never happened.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm not saying that's how it all went down; I'm saying that while we assumptions are necessary sometimes for calcs to work, having to make all these assumptions just for the feat to happen in the first place and then to extrapolate that feat and use it for scaling purposes for several characters is unreasonable.

Even if I granted that the calc is legit and Todoroki vaporized the entire ice structure, Stain wouldn't need to be Building level to survive being hit by a portion of Todoroki's fire attack which may be weaker than his heat melting the ice structure. A Small Building level character could survive it while being badly burned and knocked unconscious.

 

[Therefir]

I mean, if we think about it, Todoroki melting the whole ice is the only assumption that it wouldn't take a lot of time and it wouldn't cause a disaster.

I think I already explained why the size of the fire does not matter, and I also think that you are giving Todoroki too much credit, he is not the only one who contributed to incapacitate Stain.

 

[Damage3245]

He is the one that landed the final blow; he even said it was his chance and after he hit Stain, Stain was out of the fight. Of course being kicked in the ribs by Iida certainly contributed to that too but Todoroki's was the finishing blow.

If a combined attack from Izuku and Iida didn't knock Stain out (without Izuku punching Stain in the face too) but Todoroki's and Iida's attacks knocked Stain out then Todoroki contributed more than Izuku.

 

[Therefir]

In my opinion, Stain was about to lose consciousness with the attacks of Iida and Deku.

I think is more like they all contributed with the incapacitation of Stain, rather than Todoroki having more power than both Iida and Deku. Also, let's not forget that Iida broke Stain's ribs.

Let's wait to see what everyone thinks.

 

[TriforcePower1]

For now, I think that Therefir makes sense. Todoroki melting the whole thing requires less assumpions.

 

[Damage3245]

There is also the matter that we do know that Todoroki's output can vary heavily; from his Giant Ice Walls to his much smaller ice formations, and from his 100% Smash-cancelling fire blast to him simply melting ice with a touch. I don't think we can classify his fire blast on Stain as a 'serious first blast' in the same way that his Giant Ice Wall would be a 'serious ice blast'.

For him to vary from Small Building level output to much, much higher depending on the amount of flame he puts out wouldn't be inconsistent for the series. Remember as well; though he was trying to take down Stain with the others, he also was not aiming to kill him. As a hero-in-training, they're supposed to be taking in villains to arrest them and he wouldn't be using a lethal amount of fire against a villain.

 

[Therefir]

The real question is why Todoroki would hold back against Stain? Even Deku, who don't want to kill anyone, put so much power into his blow that he almost breaks his hand.

Also, the feat was calced when he wasn't trying to attack something, that means when he actually tries to attack with his flames, they would be always stronger than that feat.

 

[Damage3245]

The real question is why Todoroki would hold back against Stain? Even Deku, who don't want to kill anyone, put so much power into his blow that he almost breaks his hand.

Actually when Deku did use his Quirk for the first time against living people (Tomura/Nomu & Todoroki) he did subconsciously hold himself back enough to the point where he didn't break his arm at all. (Which was before he learnt Full Cowl)

 

[Therefir]

I think that was only 5%, they exaggerated that punch a lot in the anime.

 

[Andytrenom]

I firmly believe that the fire used against Stain scales to the Sports Festival feat. As for whether the feat is legit or not, even though I want to agree with Therefir that it is, truth is I can't give a confident answer right now.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Therefir

I'm not sure if this is 5%.

 

[Damage3245]

I firmly believe that the fire used against Stain scales to the Sports Festival feat. As for whether the feat is legit or not, even though I want to agree with Therefir that it is, truth is I can't give a confident answer right now.

Even though the application of his Quirk appears very different? Widespread heat across a volume almost as big as the entire stadium compared to a relatively small jet of flame used against Stain?

 

[Andytrenom]

@Damage The volume has nothing to do this, a casual usage of his ability will logically be weaker than an attack used in a life or death situation against a dangerous opponent like Stain.

 

[Damage3245]

@Damage The volume has nothing to do this, a casual usage of his ability will logically be weaker than an attack used in a life or death situation against a dangerous opponent like Stain.

Does it? The battle against Deku in the Sports Fest wasn't life or death yet the fire blast he used to cancel out Deku's 100% smash was obviously far stronger than the fire blast he used against Stain. If Todoroki can hold himself back from his maxiumum output there's no reason why he can't hold himself back further (especially if the heat he used against the Giant Ice Wall would be lethal when concentrated).

 

[Andytrenom]

I said a '''casual''' usage will be weaker than one used in a life or death situation. It being casual is the main reason why it should be weaker.

 

[Damage3245]

A wave of heat over a huge area for several minutes doesn't strike me as the definition of casual even if Todoroki was never shown to be fatigued (because we didn't see Todoroki by the end of or for them majority of the melting process).

 

[Therefir]

@Reppuzan If that was 100%, the only possible explanation is that Nomu's shock absorption absorbed all the damage of the punch.

@Damage3245 Todoroki was only able to summon that amount of power using both sides of his power, like Aizawa explained "All that chilled air was heated in an instant, making it expand", also, he never used that attack again.

 

[Andytrenom]

A wave of heat over a huge area for several minutes doesn't strike me as the definition of casual

You are not even describing a mental state here, of course it won't strike you as the definition of casual.

 

[Therefir]

A wave of heat over a huge area for several minutes doesn't strike me as the definition of casual even if Todoroki was never shown to be fatigued (because we didn't see Todoroki by the end of or for them majority of the melting process).

It's more like "A heat wave in a huge area for every second", the 10 minutes is the amount of time in which I divided the feat. If I take 10 minutes, then I have to divide the feat by 600 seconds.

240 tons / 600 = 0.40 tons.

 

[Damage3245]

It's only casual in the sense that he isn't in combat when he's melting it. Why could it not require more energy to melt the ice than to attack Stain to incapacitate him?

 

[Therefir]

It could not require more energy, because when he melted the ice he didn't create any flames.

Why do you refuse so much to use this feat? It's quite consistent with Jiro's feat.