My Hero Academia General Revisions Discussion

[Damage3245]

It could not require more energy, because when he melted the ice he didn't create any flames.
Why do you refuse so much to use this feat? It's quite consistent with Jiro's feat.

Because I think it's inconsistent with the scaling of the series and I have reasons to doubt the validity of the feat. Stain being 8-C from this one feat affects too many characters.

And it's consistency with Jiro's feat isn't relevant. The class is full of people at different levels of power.

 

[Therefir]

Well I think is consistent with the scaling (I'm not sure why you say it's inconsistent, there are five Building level feats), and I have already demonstrated you the validity of the feat. Stain being 8-C only affect like three characters -_-

 

[Damage3245]

I'm not saying it's inconsistent for the entire series but for the characters it would affect at the time.

Even if I granted the 0.40 tons fire blast, one of my points is that it didn't fully hit Stain. Only half of the fire blast hit Stain at best (it actually looks like a bit less than half). It's a stretch to me to say that Stain withstood the attack when he was hit by a fraction of it and is contributed heavily to incapacitating him.

 

[Therefir]

Although most of us don't agree with that argument for several reasons, some of then were that the size of the fire does not matter because when he did that feat there wasn't even fire in the first place, that the 0.40 tons feat was done extremely casual, that Iida caused more damage to Stain than Todoroki, etc.

 

[Damage3245]

Iida and Todoroki were causing two different types of damage there; Iida was kicking him in the ribs (and I don't doubt Iida's physical attacks are greater than Todoroki's physical attacks) but Todoroki was burning his face. On the face of it, broken ribs appear to be more damage than being badly burnt but that can be explained by Todoroki's first blast not being as strong as you're assuming it to be.

And size may matter if you're directly comparing the fire blast to the 0.40 tons value; the 0.40 tons would be for the entire attack, right? So Stain not being hit by the full attack means he's not being hit by the full 0.40 tons.

 

[Therefir]

I think you are over complicating this with the types of damage thing.

The 0.40 tons feat is the casual power of his fire side, it doesn't matter if Stain wasn't hit by the whole fire, since it was calced at 0.40 when Todoroki wasn't even attacking someone.

 

[Andytrenom]

I agree with Therefir.

 

[Schnee_One]

I have one question.

Wasn't, the calc for high hypersonic rejected?

 

[VersusJunkie54]

I have one question.
Wasn't, the calc for high hypersonic rejected?

No, and to be frank that evaluation was well.... shit.

We had a whole thread discussing it, and agreed that it could be used in that context. Raven's evaluation boils down to "I don't like blitzing so it can't be used cause I say so" An incredibly weak argument

 

[Andytrenom]

@Garg I think we just worked out a compromise

 

[Schnee_One]

Have the thread?

And man, this verse still needs some speed feats.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I agree with Therefir as well.

 

[Schnee_One]

I agree as well.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

I also agree with Therefir

 

[Js250476]

I also agree

 

[Damage3245]

I think you are over complicating this with the types of damage thing.
The 0.40 tons feat is the casual power of his fire side, it doesn't matter if Stain wasn't hit by the whole fire, since it was calced at 0.40 when Todoroki wasn't even attacking someone.

I still don't get this point. Why does Todoroki attacking someone mean the fire he used must be as powerful or more powerful? They were two entirely different uses of his Quirk; melting a stadium-sized block of ice and attacking someone in the head to incapacitate them.

I don't see a reason why the first use has to be weaker than the second just because it wasn't a person he was vaporizing.

 

[Therefir]

Todoroki was putting much more effort into the attack he used against Stain than when he melted the ice, what is so hard to understand?

The fact that his fire side was used in different ways doesn't mean that it can't be used to measure the power of his fire.

 

[Damage3245]

What are you proposing Stain's ratings/justifications be changed to? Because we both agree at least that they profile is written currently isn't great.

 

[Therefir]

Stain's rating should be 8-C for being able to grievously harm Iida's arm, and for being able to overpower him with one kick, with the pro heroes thing as a supporting feat.

In his durability it should say that he survived Todoroki's fire, and that he managed to block one kick of Iida using Recipro Burst.

 

[Damage3245]

You did agree earlier in the thread that Stain's AP could be downgraded to 9-A+. He greviously injured Iida's arm by stabbing him with knives/swords; the use of a sharp weapon can overcome a low-level single tier difference.

 

[Therefir]

We scale characters to the people that they can hurt even if they were using sharp weapons, and Todoroki is not baseline 8-C.

 

[Damage3245]

We scale characters to the people that they can hurt even if they were using sharp weapons, and Todoroki is not baseline 8-C.

You said his justification for AP was harming Iida, and Iida's only attacks that inflicted damage on Stain was with Recipro Burst so Stain 'overpowering' him by kicking him the in arm wouldn't be the same as overpowering his Recripro Burst.

And it's already been acknowledged on this thread that 9-A+ characters can harm 8-C characters with bladed weapons. Maybe I'm not too familiar with the tiering system but I bet 9-A+ characters can harm 8-C characters even without bladed weapons, right?

The application of damage is a lot more effective when done through a single piercing attack compared to something like a shockwave. (Which is similar reason why a 100% punch from Izuku would be more destructive than just being hit by a shockwave from him).

 

[Therefir]

It depends, sometimes a difference x2 is enough to be unable to hurt someone, that's why we always scale them to the characters that they can hurt.

Also, I don't see any other users of bladed weapons being treated like that, why would Stain be the exception? You can use the same argument in almost any tier and with any other users of bladed weapons who are baseline, a High 8-C+ can hurt a 8-B with sharp weapons, a 8-A+ can hurt a Low 7-C with bladed weapons, etc.

 

[Damage3245]

It depends, sometimes a difference x2 is enough to be unable to hurt someone, that's why we always scale them to the characters that they can hurt.
Also, I don't see any other users of bladed weapons being treated like that, why would Stain be the exception? You can use the same argument in almost any tier and with any other users of bladed weapons who is baseline, a High 8-C+ can hurt a 8-B with sharp weapons, a 8-A+ can hurt a Low 7-C with bladed weapons, etc.

I may be wrong but I think after a certain threshold the weapon of choice becomes irrelevant.

But you do see how a bladed/piercing weapon concentrating the energy of an attack into a point can do more damage than a more widespread attack like Todoroki's fire blast or Izuku's shockwave?

 

[Therefir]

Stain's attacks doesn't have Building level of energy, but they can hurt people who have Building level in durability.

 

[Damage3245]

Stain's attacks doesn't have Building level of energy, but they can hurt people who have Building level in durability.

Pretty much. I may not be fully familiar with the tiering system and its rules but I don't think there's a rule that a character must on the same tier as someone in order to hurt them.

EDIT: I also wouldn't call him kicking Iida to the ground a showcase of him overpowering Iida or using it as Lifting Strength; that's a Striking Strength feat.

EDIT2: Your justification of Iida is wrong as well. He never harmed Stain without using Recipro Burst so at best he would be only Building level with Recipro Burst.

 

[Therefir]

I'm pretty sure he first kicked Iida and then overpowered and crashed him against the ground.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm pretty sure he first kicked Iida and then overpowered and threw him against the ground.

On the page you linked for it, he kicked Iida in the arm and then he kicked him again. He didn't throw him.

 

[Therefir]

I mean crashed, and that also counts as a lifting strength feat, if you can move someone who is Class 5 in lifting strength for example, then you are Class 5 too. It's actually more difficult to move something with a kick or punch.

I'm very tired right now, so I'll finish the revision later.

 

[Damage3245]

That would seem only to matter if the person you were kicking was putting up active resistance against being moved; instead Iida was already at a disadvantage since he had Stain's entire weight on him and he was being kicked.