My Hero Academia General Revisions Discussion

[Therefir]

9-A+ characters can't break the ribs of 8-C characters, also they should scale to Todoroki's casual fire.

 

[Damage3245]

9-A+ characters can't break the ribs of 8-C characters, also they should scale to Todoroki's casual fire.

As I mentioned in the post above, Stain wasn't hit by the full fire blast. Only his head was hit by a portion of it, and it badly burnt him.

Since Todoroki's fire can vary in potency, and since Stain wasn't hit by the full blast, I'd feel more confident putting him down as 9-A+ because of it, not 8-C.

 

[Therefir]

The size of the fire doesn't matter, since Todoroki's fire was calculated at 0.40 even when he wasn't attacking someone.

 

[Damage3245]

The size of the fire doesn't matter, since Todoroki's fire was calculated at 0.40 even when he wasn't attacking someone.

Size might not, but potency does. Though it might seem unconnected, there is a strong correlation between the size of his attacks and the power behind them (Case in point; look at how huge his Giant Ice Wall attacks are compared to his other much smaller bursts of ice).

If Stain was only his by a small portion of his flame, it means he wasn't tanking/enduring the full amount and the amount of damage he took was less than if he took the full thing head-on.

And I don't think that Todoroki calc is applicable to all of his fire feats; the calc is based on unfounded assumptions anyway like Todoroki was the sole person responsible for clearing up the Giant Ice Wall. Now, I'm not saying there is proof he did with help, or that he did it alone. I'm saying that the offscreen feat is too unreliable to calced as his casual fire attacks.

If you want a solid, unambiguous calc for his fire, then you should be looking at calcing one of his actual attacks somehow.

 

[Reppuzan]

Damage is making the most sense right now in my opinion.

 

[Therefir]

In all calculations we have to assume a lot of things, or we wouldn't be able to calc the feats, I don't know what you have with this calc in particular

Even ignoring Todoroki's feat, Deku and Iida should be baseline 8-C for being superior to Jiro, since her feat is really close to 8-C.

As for the Stain, he should still be 8-C because he damaged Iida's arm permanently.

 

[Therefir]

Furthermore Iida can use Recipro Burst without hurting himself, this ability makes him more powerful than before and it doesn't increase his durability, so Iida always had 8-C durability in that battle.

 

[Damage3245]

In this case I think there is too much for assume for us to reliably use that calc for scaling purposes. We don't know how long the feat took, or whether Todoroki did it alone or with help. We don't know if his ice-melting rate compares to his usual fire attacks. But even if we did grant him 8-C casual fire attacks because of it; Stain took only a small portion of the attack, and it was enough to badly burn his face and contributed to taking him out of the fight completely.

Jiro's feat happened a lot later in the series after she improved herself and got new equipment. I can understand saying Izuku and Iida are superior to Jiro from the Vs. Hero Killer Arc but for all we know her using her Qurik can output more power than Iida's Engine or Izuku's early 5% Full Cowl.

Just because she's not an important character doesn't mean she can't have a higher AP than the characters from earlier in the series. Especially when you consider how destructive her sound waves are compared to Iida's kicks.

Stain damaging Iida's arm using bladed weapons is not an 8-C feat. A 9-A+ character can hurt an 8-C character, especially using bladed weapons (and as I've stated above, I don't think Iida had 8-C durability during that fight).

 

[Therefir]

Even if we say that Iida is not superior to Jiro in that arc, his Recipro Burst/Extend should still be 8-C, since it increases his power exponentially, this should scale to his normal durability and to Izuku and Stain, although I don't know if Deku 5% should scale in AP, since Iida's Recipro Burst/Extent is faster and probably stronger than Deku 5%.

I agree with downgrading Stain's AP but not his durability.

 

[Damage3245]

His Recipro Burst increases his speed, sure, but is there a calc that puts him at 8-C for using that to attack? (Iida doesn't get his current AP rating from calcs either, just from scaling Stain and Jiro so his 9-A rating doesn't have a set value and we can't say it just jumps to 8-C using this Super Move.)

If he has a calc for either his base AP or his AP with Recipro Burst, that'd be helpful.

 

[Therefir]

Recipro Burst increases his speed (and therefore the power of his kicks), it's not the first time that a character jumps to another tier thanks to a power boost, especially when this character is very close to another tier.

 

[Damage3245]

It does require a bit more than that though; especially since the only reason he had a 9-A rating was scaling to Jiro (which his base attacks probably don't) and hurting Stain (which I don't think he did without Recipro Burst). I'll reread the fight to see if he attacks Stain with his base attacks.

 

[Therefir]

I don't see the problem of being 8-C scaling from a 9-A+ character, there are other verses that also do something like this, but worse, because at least Jiro's feat is really close to 8-C.

 

[Damage3245]

Tenya only harms Stain using Recripro Burst + Recripro Extend, and I see no reason for his basic attacks to scale to Jiro's Super Move.

So really we'd be scaling him to 9-A+ from Stain and Jiro; not 8-C.

 

[Therefir]

I don't think it's a super move, that's like saying Deku's iron soles are a super move.

 

[Damage3245]

A named technique like Detroit Smash, or Recripro Burst or Heartbeat Fuzz (which Jiro uses) is a Super Move. I don't have a problem scaling Iida's Recipro Burst to 9-A+ to match Jiro.

Deku's iron soles are equipment that help his kicks, but are not a super move by themselves.

 

[Therefir]

She only uses an amplifier of her quirk, with that reasoning, no one should scale from her feat.

Deku's iron soles are technically an "amplifier" of his quirk, since it increases the power of his kicks.

 

[Damage3245]

So we should remove Jiro's feat from people's profiles for scaling purposes?

 

[Therefir]

I don't know, lets wait everyone's opinions.

 

[TheRustyOne]

So we have three 8-C feats.

Yo"s Dura 0.30 tons

Pixie-Bob's attack 0.56 tons

Todoroki's Casual flames 0.40 tons

None of these scales to anyone?

 

[Damage3245]

Not anyone in the current discussion of Stain, Iida, Aizawa and Tomura.

I don't think anyone scales directly to Pixie-Bob's earth manipulation.

Some characters already have Yo's calc in their profile.

 

[Therefir]

I just recalced Jirou's feat at 0.31 tons

 

[Damage3245]

That calc will also have to be re-accepted to be used.

EDIT: You probably should have made that a new blog post.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Why wouldn't people scale to Pixie-Bob's attack, she hit them with it.

Or am I missing something?

 

[TheRustyOne]

About Tomura, I think his AP should be Unknown since we've never seen him attack without his Quirk. Tomura's Dura should scale to Bakugo's AP since he was trying to knock him out and there's no reason for Bakugo to hold back against a villain.

Stain should scale to the students in terms of his Dura since they were hitting him with everything.

Aizawa should scale to Stain since he's rated as being superior to him in terms of AP.

 

[Damage3245]

About Tomura, I think his AP should be Unknown since we've never seen him attack without his Quirk. Tomura's Dura should scale to Bakugo's AP since he was trying to knock him out and there's no reason for Bakugo to hold back against a villain.
Stain should scale to the students in terms of his Dura since they were hitting him with everything.

Aizawa should scale to Stain since he's rated as being superior to him in terms of AP.

We already went over most of your points:

Bakugou's AP varies and his explosion appears to be no more than Small Building level, like his usual smaller explosions.

Iida and Izuku were both likely 9-A+ and Stain being hit by Todoroki's fire blast has numerous reasons for not being 8-C. So Stain would be 9-A+.

 

[Damage3245]

Why wouldn't people scale to Pixie-Bob's attack, she hit them with it.
Or am I missing something?

Each of them is only being hit by a small fraction of the overall 'attack', and you can't think that she intended to actually hurt them with that. That was her way of moving them down into the Beasts Forest.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Bakugo needs to be downgraded then if his explosions aren't 8-C.

 

[Therefir]

Sometimes I think that Damage doesn't understand the meaning of scaling and AOE fallacy.

 

[Damage3245]

Bakugo needs to be downgraded then if his explosions aren't 8-C.

Bakugou's explosions vary in potency. He is capable of 8-C (and higher) explosions and he is also capable of producing weaker explosions.

Bakugou's explosion in Tomura's face is basically a slap in the face at his offer of teaming up. He wasn't actually trying to kill him and we know for a fact he can produce bigger explosions so he wasn't using his full power.

And Therefir; I think you're misusing the AOE Fallacy. I fully understand the meaning of scaling.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I can understand Bakugo explosions not being 8-C against Uraraka because it was a tournament and it was against another student.

But Bakugo said he was planning on knocking out two or three of them. That means he was trying to knock Tomura out who wasn't even fazed by it.

Tomura is a villain, it makes no sense for Bakugo not to at least put effort into that attack.

Saying that his attack didn't look 8-C makes no sense, because by that logic no one scales to anything. Kirishima should be downgraded since Bakugo's explosions didn't look 8-C.

 

[Damage3245]

Saying that his attack didn't look 8-C makes no sense, because by that logic no one scales to anything. Kirishima should be downgraded since Bakugo's explosions didn't look 8-C.

If Bakugou's 9-A explosions have a relatively consistent size and Bakugou's 8-C explosions have a relatively consistent size, what is the problem in comparing the size of the explosions and trying to deduce how powerful it is from that?

 

[Therefir]

That's hilarious, the majority of Bakugou's explosions are not even 9-B+ in size, but they can still hurt people like Deku, are you going to say that Uraraka has more durability than Deku now?

 

[Damage3245]

That's hilarious, the majority of Bakugou's explosions are not even 9-B+ in size, but they can still hurt people like Deku, are you going to say that Uraraka has more durability than Deku now?

No, but I'm saying there is still a correlation between the size of the majority of Bakugou's explosions and the power output he has behind them.

It's unquestionable that his biggest explosions are his most powerful ones (and none of his smaller explosions have been calced to be Building level). The one he used against Tomura doesn't seem to be one of his Building level explosions, so why should I assume that it is?

 

[TheRustyOne]

The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces.

We are aware that this technically violates the principle of conservation of energy, as it should logically disperse upon impact, but fiction generally tends to ignore this fact, so we overlook it as well.

 

[Damage3245]

The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces.
We are aware that this technically violates the principle of conservation of energy, as it should logically disperse upon impact, but fiction generally tends to ignore this fact, so we overlook it as well.

Thank you, but I do not need that quoted at me. I know what the AOE fallacy is.

I'm not saying "If Bakugou's explosion was building level, we'd expect the whole League of Villains bar to explode".

I'm saying that Bakugou's explosion vary in potency (notice I'm saying potency and not DC), and the explosion he used on Tomura is not one of his more potent explosions.

 

[Therefir]

No, but I'm saying there is still a correlation between the size of the majority of Bakugou's explosions and the power output he has behind them.

It's unquestionable that his biggest explosions are his most powerful ones (and none of his smaller explosions have been calced to be Building level). The one he used against Tomura doesn't seem to be one of his Building level explosions, so why should I assume that it is?

How strange, it turns out the explosion that Bakugou used against Uraraka is one of the biggest.

 

[Damage3245]

Actually, Bakugou has used far huger explosions (particularly at the end of the Sports Fest when he destroyed the falling rubble), and later against All Might.

In the case of that one panel you calced to get Bakugou's explosion against Uraraka, it may have simply been a case of slighty bad art (with Bakugou looking like a stick figure) from a far zoomed-out perspective.

Also, I find it curious that you're okay with calcing his explosion against Uraraka based on size but not his explosion against Tomura. How interesting.

 

[Therefir]

Why are you are using his strongest explosions as an example?, also I'm pretty sure if I calc the size of his first "strongest explosion", it would be actually lower than the one he used against Uraraka.

Now it's bad art because it suits you, uh?

 

[Damage3245]

Why are you are using his strongest explosions as an example?, also I'm pretty sure if I calc the size of his first "strongest explosion", it would be actually lower than the one he used against Uraraka.
Now it's bad art because it suits you, uh?

No, I'm just pointing out it may be a bad perspective which makes the explosion look larger and more impressive than it might be.

I also notice you didn't answer my point about calcing based on size for the Uraraka explosion, but not calcing based on size for the Tumura explosion.

EDIT: I'm using his strongest explosions as examples because those were the ones originally calculated to be 8-C.