My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

[Bruh]

If we do want a number or atleast a possibility of a multiplier, 75% Complete Shigaraki is = to Weakened All Might while 100% is equal to Prime Might, so the Prime Might is 1.333x higher than the weakened AM tier

I vaguely remember us scaling 100% to 2x 45% and 8% to 1,6x 5%, did that ever happened or is my onset dementia kickin in?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Prime All Might is 60x stronger so he should be 18.78 teratons with the new calcs smh

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

Prime All Might is 60x stronger so he should be 18.78 teratons with the new calcs smh

We'd need to prove that the current shock absorbtion thing is wrong
IT'S STUPID AND NOT HOW THE QUIRK WORKS but I dont have the energy to make a google doc writing why it's wrong

I vaguely remember us scaling 100% to 2x 45% and 8% to 1,6x 5%, did that ever happened or is my onset dementia kickin in?

We attempted to do that, but it got rejected cause "the percentages aren't actually literal" and despite them not being linear and instead being exponential increases we aren't allowed to use them as "at least" values

 

[Bruh]

We attempted to do that, but it got rejected cause "the percentages aren't actually literal" and despite them not being linear and instead being exponential increases we aren't allowed to use them as "at least" values

A series with actual percentage not having usable multiplier while others without them does, isn't that something. It would've made upscaling for % without feats so much easier, couldn't we have done something like "at least with X%, possibly higher"?

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

A series with actual percentage not having usable multiplier while others without them does, isn't that something. It would've made upscaling for % without feats so much easier, couldn't we have done something like "at least with X%, possibly higher"?

You'd think

 

[AtomicSekiro]

We'd need to prove that the current shock absorbtion thing is wrong
IT'S STUPID AND NOT HOW THE QUIRK WORKS but I dont have the energy to make a google doc writing why it's wrong

We attempted to do that, but it got rejected cause "the percentages aren't actually literal" and despite them not being linear and instead being exponential increases we aren't allowed to use them as "at least" values

What’s “the current shock absorption thing”?

 

[AtomicSekiro]

If the USJ Nomu was a High End, wouldn’t the villains straight up have won?

Also, Nagant replaces Mustard in forest training arc. What changes? She doesn’t have air walk.

 

[Bruh]

If the USJ Nomu was a High End, wouldn’t the villains straight up have won?

Maybe, depending on how smart it is and what quirks it has but no HiEnd were operational at the time of the USJ arc so the Nomu was their best choice

Also, Nagant replaces Mustard in forest training arc. What changes? She doesn’t have air walk.

She would outskill, outspeed and AP-stomp everyone. Probably wouldn't kill any students but capturing Bakugo and Tokoyami would be a guarantee. The lack of air walk is meaningless considering her speed, range, enhanced senses, analytical prediction and curving bullets

 

[Gitagon]

USJ Nomu with intelligence would have been insane. Also my prediction for this arc was that Shinsou would control USJ Nomu to fight AFO or Shigaraki but now it seems

Spoiler

he's gonna be controlling Gigantomachia. Not what I thought, but close to the mark. I think USJ Nomu could also make a good potential weapon for the heroes side.

 

[Bruh]

Spoiler

he's gonna be controlling Gigantomachia. Not what I thought, but close to the mark. I think USJ Nomu could also make a good potential weapon for the heroes side.

Spoiler

If Horikoshi had bother to give Koda a quirk awakening so that he can control any living things with animalistic intelligent, we could have Koda controlling the USJ Nomu rn

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

What’s “the current shock absorption thing”?

That shock absorption works more like a defense stat then anything, subtracting damage from the total damage dealt to be the total damage taken.

The quirk itself works more like a bar from what’s stated in series, the “limit” to what it can absorb is what happens when the bar hits the cap. All Might‘s Prime and Weakened punches would be absorbed, but Prime Might would will the bar far quick than Weakened Might.

Let’s say All Might in his weakened state does 1 unit. Shock absorption’s can hold 300 units before being overrun, Prime Might would have to do 60 units each punch to finish it in 5 blows. Of course vs battle doesnt use it like that, despite that being how the quirk is stated to WORK (All Might defeated the USJ Nomu by overloading shock absorption, not by going over his defense stat)

 

[Gitagon]

Exactly how I understood it. It's almost similar to Star and Stripes barometer explanation.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I mean, for where we are currently in the series, seeing Prime AM level characters, a 60x gap doesn’t seem impossible for what the gap in power is.

Weak All Might = USJ Nomu =< High Ends = High 6-C < Prime AM

We see that Shigaraki can literally donut, mutilate and destroy High 6-C characters with ease, even just swiping his hand by their face enough to brutally maim them…

But then he weirdly doesn’t one shot Mirko/Suneater with a direct punch?

Like he punches through Bakugo with no problem when he got just a little bit upset, Vs the others he was completely pissed off. So how did he not just tear through them, idk.

Maybe his defense form lowers his AP? But that doesn’t make any sense or is implied.

Looking back through it, the only time Shigaraki actually felt “damage” was against Bakugo’s HIC and when he evolved. He says that “stung a little” and then starts freaking out. A direct kick from Mirko doesn’t register to him as “real damage,” and it’s really only after he starts getting anxiety over being so pressed that damage starts to stick.

Durability wise, I would agree that a 60x multiplier should be fine since Shigaraki himself says that none of their attacks really hurt him until Bakugo, and then he starts getting worse defense due to his mental state.

However AP wise… idk, it’s so weird.

He is clearly strong enough to justify such a gap. 100% a 60x gap between himself and the other pros would be fine.

But that scene of his defense mode not one shotting then is such a weird one. He can mutilate and tear holes in their body with just his mouth-growths and swipes of his palm… but a full on punch doesn’t kill Mirko?

Starting to think Mirko and Suneater living those hits is the outlier tbh.

Other than that, I would be fine with a 60x Prime AM, as we can clearly see that Shigaraki can justify that level of gap.

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

I mean, for where we are currently in the series, seeing Prime AM level characters, a 60x gap doesn’t seem impossible for what the gap in power is.

Weak All Might = USJ Nomu =< High Ends = High 6-C < Prime AM

We see that Shigaraki can literally donut, mutilate and destroy High 6-C characters with ease, even just swiping his hand by their face enough to brutally maim them…

But then he weirdly doesn’t one shot Mirko/Suneater with a direct punch?

Like he punches through Bakugo with no problem when he got just a little bit upset, Vs the others he was completely pissed off. So how did he not just tear through them, idk.

Maybe his defense form lowers his AP? But that doesn’t make any sense or is implied.

Looking back through it, the only time Shigaraki actually felt “damage” was against Bakugo’s HIC and when he evolved. He says that “stung a little” and then starts freaking out. A direct kick from Mirko doesn’t register to him as “real damage,” and it’s really only after he starts getting anxiety over being so pressed that damage starts to stick.

Durability wise, I would agree that a 60x multiplier should be fine since Shigaraki himself says that none of their attacks really hurt him until Bakugo, and then he starts getting worse defense due to his mental state.

However AP wise… idk, it’s so weird.

He is clearly strong enough to justify such a gap. 100% a 60x gap between himself and the other pros would be fine.

But that scene of his defense mode not one shotting then is such a weird one. He can mutilate and tear holes in their body with just his mouth-growths and swipes of his palm… but a full on punch doesn’t kill Mirko?

Starting to think Mirko and Suneater living those hits is the outlier tbh.

Other than that, I would be fine with a 60x Prime AM, as we can clearly see that Shigaraki can justify that level of gap.

It's not even the multiplier I care about, it's the fact that shock absorbtion in series is directly stated to be something that has to be OVERRUN not just that it cannot fully absorb strikes from Prime Might level characters

Shigaraki thought All Might hadn't gotten ANY weaker after seeing what he did the the USJ Nomu, Prime might's attacks would have been full absorbed as well until he hit his cap

 

[Kingofwolves999]

60x multiplier antifeats:

Pre-Evolution Bakugo hurting Shigaraki (Only possible with his strongest move (Howitzer Impact Cluster) via burning him. Couldn’t even move Shigaraki with the actual force of it, not an antifeat)

Evolved Bakugo hurting Shigaraki (The only person Shigaraki says actually did “real damage,” meaning it’s stronger than his own Howitzer. featless beyond that, could just have grown that strong, not an antifeat)

Mirko hurting Shigaraki with her kicks (Only occurred after he took damage from Bakugo, at which point he demonstrably gets weaker due to his mental state. Begins to panic and gets more effected, wouldn’t call this comparable to if she hit him at the start of the fight, would not call it an antifeat)

The Big Three (Nejire’s beams do not hurt Shigaraki. Though we see marks on his skin, Mirio + Nejire combo is stated to actually deal no damage at all, Mirio even stating the attack didn’t so much as scratch his skin. Plasma cannon, Suneater’s ultimate move, did nothing to Shigaraki despite using Nejire’s power, further cementing that he takes no damage from her, so no antifeat)

The Narrator (“Thanks to Erasure, he couldn’t heal the accumulating damage to his body,” doesn’t specify what damage he’s taken, Bakugo + his evolved state, as well as Mirko’s later kicks when he was weakened, could be enough, would not claim as an antifeat)

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Biggest possible antifeat is that he didn’t splatter Mirko and Suneater across the walls when he punched them but that seems like outlier to me now.

THERE IS NO WAY POSSIBLE WAY that he can punch holes in Bakugo, tear Mirko’s limbs off with just his finger mouths, and even mutilate bodies just by swiping his real hand really fast by their heads, and then not one shot kill them when he punches directly. That makes 0 sense to everything else shown in the fight.

It's not even the multiplier I care about, it's the fact that shock absorbtion in series is directly stated to be something that has to be OVERRUN not just that it cannot fully absorb strikes from Prime Might level characters

Shigaraki thought All Might hadn't gotten ANY weaker after seeing what he did the the USJ Nomu, Prime might's attacks would have been full absorbed as well until he hit his cap

True, that’s how USJ Nomu works.

It’s like:

You need to beat Nomu. He has 300 HP.

Weakened AM punches him 300 times. Hp = 0.

Prime AM punches him 5 times. Hp = 0.

Clearly Prime is 60x stronger than Weakened. Shock Absorption works like aura form RWBY, or a health bar. It has a set limit that is reached after enough force is put into him. If Prime reaches that limit 60x faster than Weakened, then Prime is 60x stronger.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Can't wait for a statement from Tomura comparing Izuku to All Might and stating that he could likely defeat the USJ Nomu with a single blow at 100%, making Izuku 300x more powerful than Beginning of Series All Might.

 

[SuperStar]

Based

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Yeah the 60x multiplier is not consistent in the verse. An enraged Shigaraki can punch Mirko at full power and not instantly either donut her or shatter every bone in her body or just straight up turn her to paste

 

[Bruh]

If we treat Mirko and Sun Eater surviving an enraged Shigaraki's attack as outlier then the 60x multiplier could really work. There's a bunch of feats of Shigaraki effortlessly tanking hits and mauling the heroes with his attacks. It would fit with how Shock Absorption works as well. Also would make Prime AM more durable than Fist Bump to the Earth which i like

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Yeah the 60x multiplier is not consistent in the verse. An enraged Shigaraki can punch Mirko at full power and not instantly either donut her or shatter every bone in her body or just straight up turn her to paste

Which is outlier to all his other feats.

He swipes his hand past Bakugo’s face, not even aiming to hurt him, and tears his flesh while breaking his arm with a simple grab. He punches a hole in Bakugo’s chest after getting just upset enough. He completely tanks every single attack sent his way, with nothing even remotely damaging him per his own words except for Bakugo, and after he realized Bakugo hurt him, had a mental breakdown that weakened him.

Literally everything in the fight points to Shigaraki should have smeared Mirko and Suneater on the ground with a full on, serious punch to the face. From his durability to his strength to even his finger hands being enough to mess them up while being wildly weaker than his main body. Hell, his Air Pressure was enough to send Mirko flying and damage her immensely, how the heck would a straight punch not knock her head off?

All of Shigaraki’s feats, except for not one shotting Mirko and Suneater, are consistent with a 60x gap. It is an absolute mystery why they did not just straight up turn into red paste when he hit them.

Either his evolved defensive form is way weaker AP-wise, or them surviving is just an outlier/plot armor, cause nothing in the story until that point shows that they should have lived that attack.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Literally every scaling issue we have with Prime AM characters is linked solely to “Mirko and Suneater survived punches that they should not have survived.”

Like literally, even if Deku and Shigaraki got a High 6-A feat, we would be subject to “does everyone else scale cause Mirko/Suneater?”

They very clearly should not have lived that attack, and should not scale to Shigaraki. Either Defense Mode is weaker AP-wise, or this feat is just a straight outlier.

 

[Therefir]

What outliers, when has Shigaraki or Prime AFO has ever demonstrated to have 60 times the strength of their previous selves, which were fighting the heroes? You want me to believe all those cases involving characters surviving hits from both 75% Shigaraki/Weakened AFO and 100% Shiggy/Prime AFO were the outliers, and not the ridiculous 60 times stronger implication?

The statement is not consistent with itself, as it implies USJ Nomu can take 4 hits from someone 60 stronger than his own durability.

If anything, they being 60 times stronger is the outlier and inconsistent with their portrayal in the current war.

Deku might not even be using 100% right now, and somehow you think that he is 60 times stronger than the 100% Deku who fought against Shiggy during the previous war? Hold on, is Deku scaling from Shiggy also an outlier? Imao.

 

[Therefir]

The 60x times multiplier will just **** up the scaling beyond recognition, and would require classifying many genuine feats as outliers.

It would also make the power of Weakened All Might and Weakened AFO and their struggle a joke, which wouldn't be consistent with their portrayal in the series.

Their Prime versions are stronger, yes, but not by that much.

 

[Hk1488]

Biggest possible antifeat is that he didn’t splatter Mirko and Suneater across the walls when he punched them but that seems like outlier to me now.

THERE IS NO WAY POSSIBLE WAY that he can punch holes in Bakugo, tear Mirko’s limbs off with just his finger mouths, and even mutilate bodies just by swiping his real hand really fast by their heads, and then not one shot kill them when he punches directly. That makes 0 sense to everything else shown in the fight.



True, that’s how USJ Nomu works.

It’s like:

You need to beat Nomu. He has 300 HP.

Weakened AM punches him 300 times. Hp = 0.

Prime AM punches him 5 times. Hp = 0.

Clearly Prime is 60x stronger than Weakened. Shock Absorption works like aura form RWBY, or a health bar. It has a set limit that is reached after enough force is put into him. If Prime reaches that limit 60x faster than Weakened, then Prime is 60x stronger.

Bro you literally just making things up bruh. Why would you even require anti feats to dismiss the 60x multiplier when there is no feats supporting it. Let me tell you how the wiki treats shock absorption(which logically makes more sense, is more consistent and closer to reality than a 60x multiplier)

Nomu has shock absorption at a certain level let's say about 1000
Weakened all might deals 1001 damage but his shock absorption makes the damage dealt to him 1. He has 300 HP so he survives 300 punches. Prime all might does 1060 damage therefore after the absorption it only takes 5 punches to get rid of the 300 HP. Of course the gap between prime am and weakened am is way bigger than 1.06 times but those numbers are just examples.

 

[Damage3245]

Yeah, 60x multiplier isn't valid in the first place.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

It would also make the power of Weakened All Might and Weakened AFO and their struggle a joke

All Might had his respiratory system nearly destroyed and his stomach removed, deteriorated during the recovery from his surgeries, and has been rapidly losing the last few bouts of One For All that have built up in his body approaching the Kamin theo Incident. In the past, he could fight crime nonstop for 72 hours; in the beginning of the series, he can barely last 3 hours.

All For One lost his face to scar tissue and was weakened by All Might to the point he was surviving off of live support and required his myriad Quirks to even navigate the world. On top of, like, old age.

Not saying 60x is valid, but completely consistent with the narrative. There is nothing insignificant about their rematch; they are two impossibly untouchable powerhouses still. With their prime iterations being that stronger, that only adds to their status as legends of the past century, revered and remembered by all.

 

[Gitagon]

Bro you literally just making things up bruh. Why would you even require anti feats to dismiss the 60x multiplier when there is no feats supporting it. Let me tell you how the wiki treats shock absorption(which logically makes more sense, is more consistent and closer to reality than a 60x multiplier)

Nomu has shock absorption at a certain level let's say about 1000
Weakened all might deals 1001 damage but his shock absorption makes the damage dealt to him 1. He has 300 HP so he survives 300 punches. Prime all might does 1060 damage therefore after the absorption it only takes 5 punches to get rid of the 300 HP. Of course the gap between prime am and weakened am is way bigger than 1.06 times but those numbers are just examples.

Yeah, I don't get how people turned this into a multiplier discussion when it's about how shock absorption works.

 

[Therefir]

All For One lost his face to scar tissue and was weakened by All Might to the point he was surviving off of live support and required his myriad Quirks to even navigate the world. On top of, like, old age.

AFO was in an even worse condition a few chapters ago and yet he nearly killed Endeavor.

My point is that their power wouldn't be irrelevant at this war.

 

[Bruh]

How about we scale Primes to at least 2,2x 45% as a compromise?.....Anyone?......No one?.......Ok....

 

[Hk1488]

All Might had his respiratory system nearly destroyed and his stomach removed, deteriorated during the recovery from his surgeries, and has been rapidly losing the last few bouts of One For All that have built up in his body approaching the Kamin theo Incident. In the past, he could fight crime nonstop for 72 hours; in the beginning of the series, he can barely last 3 hours.

All For One lost his face to scar tissue and was weakened by All Might to the point he was surviving off of live support and required his myriad Quirks to even navigate the world. On top of, like, old age.

Not saying 60x is valid, but completely consistent with the narrative. There is nothing insignificant about their rematch; they are two impossibly untouchable powerhouses still. With their prime iterations being that stronger, that only adds to their status as legends of the past century, revered and remembered by all.

Yes you are saying 60x is valid bro what you on about. It's simply a baseless assumption and completely inconsistent with the manga. A surgery doesn't make you 60 times weaker bro ever seen a grow man after injury struggle to bench 1 kg xD

 

[Therefir]

I was fine with using the movie chart to make Prime characters a few times stronger but nooo...

 

[Bruh]

I was fine with using the movie chart to make Prime characters a few times stronger but nooo...

How much stronger would they be if we used it?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Yes you are saying 60x is valid bro what you on about.

Not too good with English?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

How much stronger would they be if we used it?

Pretty sure the chart read a 5x difference between his prime and his current strength.

 

[Bruh]

Pretty sure the chart read a 5x difference between his prime and his current strength.

Holy! And here i am fine with at least 2,2x by using the percentages. 5x isn't too bad of a difference, definitely not anything scaling breaking

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

I was fine with using the movie chart to make Prime characters a few times stronger but nooo...

Please let’s go back to using that

Please Therefir (wait does that also affect speed? Oh yeah and I’m about to send ya something on the fandom page)

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

I’d be down to use the movie chart, prime tier characters would become Low 6-B

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

5x would also make sense in the scaling as it’s possible for Mirko to survive a hit from someone 5x stronger than her

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

Thought the Power Difference was 15000 QP at Prime, and in his Two Heroes Appearence (what used to be his weakest Key) it was 2500, so should be a 6x difference in Power and Speed.

Makes little to no difference I just thought it was something to bring up