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My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

SuperStar said:
What are the counterarguments for down scaling FFHW from 100%?
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It didn’t clash with 100% at all, it just made an explosion that launched Deku away.

Deku’s arm was horrendously ****** yo already so he wasn’t even at full power with 100% (confirmed Vs Muscular that his punches get weaker with broken limbs in this key)

He didn’t contribute all the power of that explosion either, as it was a mix of the cold air and heat, with the air pressure supplied by Deku.

Deku didn’t throw a punch, he just had 100% in his arm and jumped forward with a palm extended, so it didn’t even carry any force to scale to.

Cementoss put up blocks and stopped them from actually clashing in the first place.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Deku didn’t throw a punch, he just had 100% in his arm and jumped forward with a palm extended, so it didn’t even carry any force to scale to.

Cementoss put up blocks and stopped them from actually clashing in the first place.
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Cementoss is 7-A+ now, so that kind supports Heatwave downscaling. Though it can cause issues since Izuku's weakened attack would've been weakened further.

Izuku's punch/palm is irrelevant, since he jumped with 100% and was using 100% in his arm as he threw his hand out. It being a punch doesn't matter, the power doesn't magically change because he opens his hand. Normal punching mechanics don't work with super natural enhancers. Izuku's weight and posture is irrelevant.

The other stuff is true though, they didn't fully clash and Izuku was weakened.
 
Izuku did unleash wind pressure/shockwave with his 100% attack. We can see in the panel here, that the shockwave from their attack reaches and "clashes". Look at how Cementoss' Walls bend and break, it shows the direction of force. The middle wall breaks straight, while the others curve into the direction of the attack.

How strong is this is up in the air. But even weakened 100% attacks can harm Muscular, so they aren't below 7-A+.

If Heatwave does scale, the most it can be is 550 Megatons. It's NOT equal to 100%, if Izuku was fine he'd likely blow straight through it.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Cementoss is 7-A+ now, so that kind supports Heatwave downscaling. Though it can cause issues since Izuku's weakened attack would've been weakened further.

Izuku's punch/palm is irrelevant, since he jumped with 100% and was using 100% in his arm as he threw his hand out. It being a punch doesn't matter, the power doesn't magically change because he opens his hand. Normal punching mechanics don't work with super natural enhancers. Izuku's weight and posture is irrelevant.

The other stuff is true though, they didn't fully clash and Izuku was weakened.
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The issue with all of this is that Todoroki isn’t doing it by himself.

The air pressure provided by Deku is quite clearly having a massive effect on how much destruction is caused. If Deku’s coming from the left with 7-A+ force in his punches and provides enough air pressure that just that can break Cementoss’s walls, then how in the heck are we claiming Shoto is the exact same power with his normal Flashfreeze Heatwave? The amount of cold air created in this fight, a result of Deku using Air Pressure to break his ice attacks, is not something he ever readily has available, so trying to say every Flashfreeze heatwave he has should scale to 100% because 100% helped create the first Flashfreeze heatwave is ridiculous.

Not to mention, no one even comments on this. Endeavor thinks Deku is the same as All Might, so if he genuinely thought Shoto was as strong if not stronger than All Might with just that attack, by himself, as in can do it without any additional input or help from Deku and still be 7-A+, he would have mentioned it.

Your claim that “they clashed so they’re equal” is faulty because we don’t even know what the result of that clash would have been if not for the explosion. Hell it’s not even a “Clash” to begin with. Deku launches his hand forward, Shoto shoots fire forward, and the air pressure + cold + heat from their attacks and the prior ones makes an explosion. There is an explosion because their forces combine, not because Shoto creates every bit of it and then just overpowers 100%.

If your claim is based off of Cementoss’s blocks bending, then you’re not saying Shoto’s Flashfreeze is 7-A+, you’re saying his fire side is 7-A+. Your claim is assuming he explosion is coming from his palm, when it’s actually originating from the center where the air pressure and fire mix together. So again, Shoto is not the source of the attack, he is providing energy that results in an explosion that pushes Deku away.

You could barely even call this attack a Flashfreeze Heatwave given the amount of help Shoto gets from Deku to create it in the first place.

Also, trying to say Cementoss is 7-A so they should scale is ridiculous since Cementoss scales to Geten who scales to normal Dabi. Are we trying to say that UA beginnings Shoto’s Flashfreeze heatwave is stronger than Flashfire Fist Endeavor? Is Shoto during this moment somehow surpassing his future self’s flashfire fist? Hell, Kirishima and Sato break Cementoss’ concrete formations too, are they 7-A+? Is anyone who cracks the Sports Festival flooring 7-A+ because Cementoss made it?

It makes no sense at all for him to scale to 100% even downscaling. He did not clash with him, he blew him away because the explosion sent him flying after the air and heat combined into a sudden explosion. They do not scale to Cementoss, unless we think this attack is stronger than Flashfire fist Endeavor or that Kirishima is also 7-A+.

And if you say “Cementoss can control how strong he makes them,” then that just puts more doubt on the blocks they destroyed in this clash being 7-A+ since he doesn’t even know Deku is as strong as All Might, so you’d have to rely on him thinking they’re genuinely gonna kill each other.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Your claim that “they clashed so they’re equal”
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Literally stated they aren't equal, and said that I believe that if Izuku was fine he'd probably blow straight through Heatwave. Even with Cementoss' walls.

I wasn't expecting such disagreement and heavy emotion. Let's have a normal chill discussion, nothing heated alright?
 
TheRustyOne said:
Not even that. He'd be downscaling from Weakened 100% as a possibility. I was never suggesting it was equal in that moment.
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Your suggestion is based on them doing similar damage to Cementoss’ shields. How is that not an implication of them being equal? Not to mention, again, the explosion was only possible due to Deku’s air pressure, so saying that Shoto can shoot off that level of power again, or enough to the point that it warrants a rating and isn’t just a one time thing that is only possible because he’s fighting Deku, is ludicrous to me.
 
As I'm not the one suggesting the 7-A+ rating, just giving the idea out since other people have.

I'm not going to argue with anyone for or against it, I'm just going to watch and give my opinion if needed.

I was not prepare, ready, or even desire going into such an argument with someone.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
At the very least, after Chapter 184, as Hawks is the No. 2 Pro Hero.
No mention of the Endeavor Agency, though.
Click to expand...
Izuku and Bakugo first meet Hawks in the Endeavor Agency, they make it clear Hawks hasn't met Izuku before in Chapter 244.

Hawks doesn't know his name and says "You're the kid who smashes up his own fingers, right?". Which means it takes place after that moment in the Endeavor Agency.
 
Ah.
Never mind, then.

Joint Training Arc Neito gets upgraded from 13.70 to 15.08 tons of TNT. In that case, does 8% Izuku get bumped from 41.11 to 45.24 tons of TNT?
 
Last edited:
Bruh said:
So base EA Monoma can beat up base EA Kirishima......Meaning?
Click to expand...
Nothing, both of them already scale to the same value of 13.70 Tons.

Nullflowerblush said:
Joint Training Arc Neito gets upgraded from 13.70 to 15.08 tons of TNT. In that case, does 8% Izuku get bumped from 41.11 to 45.24 tons of TNT?
Click to expand...
Kirishima did that feat with his Hardening on, not his base.
 
Base Kirishima's durability scaling to 13.70 Tons comes from Monoma after a scaling chain.

That'd be circular scaling. 13.70 Tons comes from Monoma using Twin Impact, which creates a second impact that is several times stronger. Accepted as being 3X.
 
Metalballrun said:
If it comes to pass, should be noted that it's a "Varies up to 7-A" type of attack.
Click to expand...
Yeah he can lower the output of any of his attacks. But do we label people holding back as Varies?

Isn't something like Re-Destro's Stress, Muscular's Pump Up, or Gigantomachia's Endurance Quirk. Which makes them stronger via stress, muscle fibers, and Morale.
 
I'll wait for the Sport festival clash to be evaluated so that we'll have a safety net to fall back on if downscaling from weakened 100% gets rejected
 
TheRustyOne said:
Yeah he can lower the output of any of his attacks. But do we label people holding back as Varies?

Isn't something like Re-Destro's Stress, Muscular's Pump Up, or Gigantomachia's Endurance Quirk. Which makes them stronger via stress, muscle fibers, and Morale.
Click to expand...
Flashfreeze Heatwave works with some level of preparation, Shoto uses Half-Cold to remove heat from or cool an area, and then rapidly heats the area with Half-Hot. So it's dependent on the area that was chilled. His first one vs Deku was the largest because of how much he cooled the area by overusing Half-Cold, I reckon.

Of course, we can just choose to put it at 7-A if that's how it works, though it should be understood how the power of the attack varies. Flashfreeze Heatwave being 7-A isn't something Shoto can do at mere moments like how Re-Destro or Muscular increases their strength.
Technically he can do it quicker by spamming his ice attacks and creating a dome before using the attack, however, but that kinda still takes time.

Just my two cents though. I think either is fine.
 
He doesn't need large prep, he did a full power Flashfreeze Heatwave against Leviathan in World Heroes' Mission.

Just make giant ice and use his fire to make the expansion/shockwave. Yet it has setup, I imagine more ice/fire equal greater boom.

Though I'm also find with either as well.
 
Bruh said:
Did it hurt Leviathan?
Click to expand...
He didn't seem to have any obvious damage. Leviathan already has 7-A+ durability that is 550 Megatons though.

That's also when Shoto stated he was going to use his most powerful move, which is why Flashfire Fist > Flashfreeze Heatwave.

Which is why I'm iffy about Heatwave being 7-A+, considering there seems to be a noticeable gap between Heatwave and his Jet Kindling. Though maybe Leviathan's heat resistance was overwhelmed by the Flashfire Fist's high temperature? Current Heatwave didn't seem to damage someone who managed to survive his Flashfire.
 
TheRustyOne said:
He didn't seem to have any obvious damage. Leviathan already has 7-A+ durability that is 550 Megatons though.

That's also when Shoto stated he was going to use his most powerful move, which is why Flashfire Fist > Flashfreeze Heatwave.

Which is why I'm iffy about Heatwave being 7-A+, considering there seems to be a noticeable gap between Heatwave and his Jet Kindling. Though maybe Leviathan's heat resistance was overwhelmed by the Flashfire Fist's high temperature? Current Heatwave didn't seem to damage someone who managed to survive his Flashfire.
Click to expand...
What's the maximum limit for downscaling? 3x? Maybe we could just downscale it to 3x weaker than 100% as FFHW is clearly inferior to Flashfire which in itself is weaker than 100%, it doesn't have to be 7-A+. But overall I'm still neutral on the subject, would need more arguments to form a final opinion on the matter
 
Bruh said:
What's the maximum limit for downscaling? 3x? Maybe we could just downscale it to 3x weaker than 100% as FFHW is clearly inferior to Flashfire which in itself is weaker than 100%, it doesn't have to be 7-A+. But overall I'm still neutral on the subject, would need more arguments to form a final opinion on the matter
Click to expand...
No multiplier at all. We don't give out random multipliers for downscaling.

We downscale to a previous tier and that is it, also the number they downscaling to has to be close to what they're downscaling from. Heatwave can't go below 550 Megatons, which means Flashfire Fist Jet Kindling is weaker than 748 Megatons but can one shot someone who basically tanked 550 Megatons.

If Heatwave is weaker than that, it means it probably not 7-A. There's nothing from the "clash" to suggest it should downscale to baseline 7-A, which is 100 MT.

Like I said, I'm iffy with 7-A Heatwave.
 
Heatwave seems to deal more force than heat damage, it is after all a result of a sudden spike in temperature, so it's not as heat-based as Flashfire that goes over 2000 degrees Celsius.
I haven't really watched WHM yet though so can't say.
 
I think if you saw the movie you'd be able to tell. The power of Flashfire Fist Jet Kindling did more damage to the surroundings than his Flashfreeze Heatwave.

There was a waterfall that Shoto had frozen nearby, his Heatwave explosion didn't destroy it. Yet his Jet Kindling shattered basically the entire waterfall. Despite the fact that both Heatwave and Jet Kindling were not aimed at the waterfall but at Leviathan. Leviathan was closer to the waterfall when he got hit by Heatwave as well.

And got closer to Shoto before getting hit with Jet Kindling, so the raw impact of the attack surpasses Heatwave. Shoto directly states he's going to use the most powerful move he has, before ending the fight with Jet Kindling. So I'm certain Flashfire Fist > Flashfreeze Heatwave.

Likely the sheer heat did overcome Leviathan's resistance, but I still lean towards the above as well.
 
I'll wait for Therefir's opinion on the matter. He was the one who(jokingly?) proposed the idea in the High 8C to 8B thread after all
 
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