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My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

AtomicSekiro said:
Redestro was only overpowered because his prosthetic legs snapped. I also don’t think he was at maximum stress and wasn’t using his massive AOE energy attacks, just brute strength while somewhat unprepared.
Click to expand...
He was somewhere near max stress since he had his kinda-wings out, but his prosthetics definitely attributed to his loss in that clash.
 
I really hope they don't force Deku back into school. Next chapter we will probably see more of Bakugo, Uraraka and Iida since they hardly did anything this chapter.
 
Actually yes bring him back. He'll be a great excuse for the League of Villains to destroy school.
 
Earthyboy said:
First of all, I never even stated the air pulled the clouds in. If you actually read my argument, I said that it was the cyclone that pulled the clouds in. This is just proof that you didn't bother trying to understand most of my argument and just went for a straw man.
Click to expand...
“Oh, I don't know. Because the wind pressure traveled omnidirectionally? The air was blown omnidirectionally.”
This was the statement you made, in response of me asking how would it draw clouds in, you stated that the air was blown omnidirectional. So how is it a strawman? If the air was blown omnidirectional that means its blowing away, you made this statement not me. I fail to see how you forgot your own claim and then try to put the strawman on me when in reality its you failing to understand your own argument.
Earthyboy said:
If you're just going to waste your time biting at my neck while saying I'm committing fallacies left and right, then I can't take you seriously. You have provided no evidence of this whatsoever.
Click to expand...
The evidence is in the statement itself. I quoted it. You literally stated the only logical answer to this was that the clouds were pulled in, that would quite literally classify as a false dilemma and you havent refuted that fact.
Ive given multiple arguments, which you have literally disregarded and before you say “claiming i disregarded it doesnt prove anything” Ill elaborate on it.
In this statement you say in your previous post you proved why it was irrelevant so lets see what exactly did you say in the last response.
All you said was it spinning in a 360 rotation means nothing and that he pulled the clouds over a long distance. So in which part do you explain why it doesnt matter? You quite literally ignored my whole response and simply claimed it doesnt matter, something you have yet to prove.
If things were pulled in at an omnidirectional angle, they would be flowing towards the middle as the force pulling them was spinning. They wouldn’t be flowing at a 360 angle as that goes against them being pulled. Ill give multiple examples of this. Example one is this hurricane from space. Now why would this be a good example in regards to your “evidence”. A hurricane spins with so much force that it drags clouds in near it as its spinning, and you can literally see the clouds around it being spun and dragged into the middle. Take a good look at how these clouds are being dragged into the middle. It is not a complete 360 motion. Heres another. Notice how the water around it is being pulled in a spun by the spinning force. Notice how the water is being pulled in? This applies to all mights feat.
If your claim was indeed correct (nothing supports it besides “clouds spinning”) and these clouds were pulled in over great distances by a spinning source, then they would be spinning in the ways that I have provided.
Simply calling this irrelevant will be an act of red herring. Directly tackle my argument or concede.
So not only did you falsely claim that you explained why its irrelevant, you completely disregarded the argument which is extremely disrespectful as it wastes my time.
Earthyboy said:
Once again, this is proof that you have not in fact, read anything I said. If you paid attention to at least a few of my paragraphs, I said that before the storm even started to form, the cyclone had already died down and dissipated. The cyclone wasn't the thing making the clouds spin because it already disappeared long before the clouds appeared on the screen.
Click to expand...
Ive read over your “paragraphs” and I have responded to them, can you elaborate on how that is “evidence” of me not reading your paragraphs? I fail to see how that is the case.
The cyclone vanishing means nothing.
The momentum that was generated by them is what matters. The cyclone was powerful enough to create clouds, and since the source creating them was spinning, i fail to understand why it wouldnt make any sense for it to spin as well. Can you please explain why it wouldnt make any sense?
Going by your own reasoning. Its impossible for the cyclone to be the reason for the spinning because as its gone meaning its effect is no longer taking place.
So the reason for the clouds spinning is because they were pulled in and the force of the cyclone was still in place, amirite? This same reasoning can be applied to all might creating spinning clouds.
———-
After reading the feat again, its started to rain immediately after he generated the punch and then its stated that the rising air current and the pressure for it caused rain. This is a real life concept that can quite literally cause rain.
In the manga he changed the weather by making it rain.
Nothing suggests he dragged clouds over a large distance, or cause any clouds to spin. Meaning the anime quite literally contradicts the manga and goes against the canon guidelines.
So the feat represented in the anime is completely different from the manga. This should be enough to simply scrap this since reasoning isnt gonna help at all
 
Also im not responding to anymore debate the pulling cloud thing as literally no one agrees with the reasoning snd you arent down to listen to reason so im not gonna stress myself out over something so little
 
BruhMomento0260 said:
Principal Nezu dumb as a brick acting like his security system is gonna do something against Shigiraki's decay
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Yeah NGL I didn't know what he was thinking when he decided to send away the students and replace it with a barrier which AFO could easily pop open.

TimmyTurneo: Also im not responding to anymore debate the pulling cloud thing as literally no one agrees with the reasoning snd you arent down to listen to reason so im not gonna stress myself out over something so little
Click to expand...
This discussion overall has made me uncomfortable and no one is really interested in talking about it anymore besides Earthboy. So I would like it to not be present anymore in this thread. Could anyone else besides Timmy (they're dipping out of the conversation) please take this elsewhere so we could continue talking about something more relevant?
 
BruhMomento0260 said:
Principal Nezu dumb as a brick acting like his security system is gonna do something against Shigiraki's decay
Click to expand...
Why would AFO send Shigaraki? Shiggy is still most likely uncompleted and AFO's actions have made it quite clear he has no interest in chasing after Deku directly until Shigaraki's procedure is fully completed.
 
I don’t think AFO is dumb enough to attack the school who has a teacher has the ability to completely shut him down with his eyes (Aizawa), and has Endeavor on speed dial. And also an unlimited supply of sentient robots, some of which the size of buildings.

Like, sure, he COULD get into the school… but then what? Almost all of the Paranormal Liberation Front army is defeated. The heroes still have so many powerhouses, AFO has himself, Shigaraki who isn’t complete and in a critical/comatose state most likely, and a handful of Nomu’s. He lost Nagant and Muscular and his next hitman was taken out in an instant. Against Aizawa, Endeavor, an even stronger Deku, literally every student in the school and every pro hero who works at the school plus the robot army. Unless AFO found some more Muscular and Nagant tier villains he’d have a tough time taking the school AND capturing Deku on top of that who can now use 100% speed bursts to run away at any time.

AFO himself may not even have regen like Shigaraki, so if he gets flamed by Endeavor after Aizawa shuts his quirks down, he’s basically done.
 
AFO already tried to get a regeneration factor quirk in the past and tried to use it to heal himself from the heavy damage he sustained from his first battle with All Might, but the regeneration quirk had like no effect because his body had already cauterized those injuries and he stated he should've gotten the quirk sooner so that wouldn't be an issue.
 
AtomicSekiro said:
I don’t think AFO is dumb enough to attack the school who has a teacher has the ability to completely shut him down with his eyes (Aizawa), and has Endeavor on speed dial. And also an unlimited supply of sentient robots, some of which the size of buildings.

Like, sure, he COULD get into the school… but then what? Almost all of the Paranormal Liberation Front army is defeated. The heroes still have so many powerhouses, AFO has himself, Shigaraki who isn’t complete and in a critical/comatose state most likely, and a handful of Nomu’s. He lost Nagant and Muscular and his next hitman was taken out in an instant. Against Aizawa, Endeavor, an even stronger Deku, literally every student in the school and every pro hero who works at the school plus the robot army. Unless AFO found some more Muscular and Nagant tier villains he’d have a tough time taking the school AND capturing Deku on top of that who can now use 100% speed bursts to run away at any time.

AFO himself may not even have regen like Shigaraki, so if he gets flamed by Endeavor after Aizawa shuts his quirks down, he’s basically done.
Click to expand...
That's fair, now that I think about it.
 
AtomicSekiro said:
Almost all of the Paranormal Liberation Front army is defeated.
Click to expand...
Honestly I don't know if there even is a Paranormal Liberation Army to be defeated anyways. A shit load of them were arrested while a lot got away and then there was a mass prison break. The ones that were broken out of prison or got away most likely didn't regroup. The last we saw them, it was just AFO/Shigaraki chilling out with some Nomu, Dabi, Spinner, and Skeptic. Toga is separated from the group and on the run and Compress was being treated for his injuries the last we saw him and is likely imprisoned.
AtomicSekiro said:
Shigaraki who isn’t complete and in a critical/comatose state most likely,
Click to expand...
Shigaraki is being possessed by AFO at the moment. and is capable of attacking, but is indeed still incomplete. Shigaraki's decay played a large part in the prison breaks iirc.
 
Crimson_Shadow101 said:
Honestly I don't know if there even is a Paranormal Liberation Army to be defeated anyways. A shit load of them were arrested while a lot got away and then there was a mass prison break. The ones that were broken out of prison or got away most likely didn't regroup. The last we saw them, it was just AFO/Shigaraki chilling out with some Nomu, Dabi, Spinner, and Skeptic. Toga is separated from the group and on the run and Compress was being treated for his injuries the last we saw him and is likely imprisoned.
Click to expand...
Speculation time: what are all these people gonna do now?
 
I mean, from what the leaks are saying, they only know he has Blackwhip, Danger Sense, Smokescreen and Float. So if he decides to yeet out of there with Fa Jin, they aren't catching up except for probably Iida.

And that's also interesting: Everyone except his two best friends have responded to him in one way or another. So if he tries Fa Jin, Iida can respond, and if he tries Float, Uraraka can respond. This chapter seems to be getting everyone's feelings and worries about him out, but next chapter is probably where the two who befriended him first are going to step in.

Also none of their attempts seem to even be effective when he actually musters the will to try against them, but he kinda is just letting things happen because he doesn't want to harm them and is tired.
 
AtomicSekiro said:
I don’t think AFO is dumb enough to attack the school who has a teacher has the ability to completely shut him down with his eyes (Aizawa), and has Endeavor on speed dial. And also an unlimited supply of sentient robots, some of which the size of buildings.

Like, sure, he COULD get into the school… but then what? Almost all of the Paranormal Liberation Front army is defeated. The heroes still have so many powerhouses, AFO has himself, Shigaraki who isn’t complete and in a critical/comatose state most likely, and a handful of Nomu’s. He lost Nagant and Muscular and his next hitman was taken out in an instant. Against Aizawa, Endeavor, an even stronger Deku, literally every student in the school and every pro hero who works at the school plus the robot army. Unless AFO found some more Muscular and Nagant tier villains he’d have a tough time taking the school AND capturing Deku on top of that who can now use 100% speed bursts to run away at any time.

AFO himself may not even have regen like Shigaraki, so if he gets flamed by Endeavor after Aizawa shuts his quirks down, he’s basically done.
Click to expand...
But afo speed blitz and one shots all them
 
TimmyTurnero said:
“Oh, I don't know. Because the wind pressure traveled omnidirectionally? The air was blown omnidirectionally.”
This was the statement you made, in response of me asking how would it draw clouds in, you stated that the air was blown omnidirectional. So how is it a strawman? If the air was blown omnidirectional that means its blowing away, you made this statement not me. I fail to see how you forgot your own claim and then try to put the strawman on me when in reality its you failing to understand your own argument.

The evidence is in the statement itself. I quoted it. You literally stated the only logical answer to this was that the clouds were pulled in, that would quite literally classify as a false dilemma and you havent refuted that fact.
Ive given multiple arguments, which you have literally disregarded and before you say “claiming i disregarded it doesnt prove anything” Ill elaborate on it.
In this statement you say in your previous post you proved why it was irrelevant so lets see what exactly did you say in the last response.
All you said was it spinning in a 360 rotation means nothing and that he pulled the clouds over a long distance. So in which part do you explain why it doesnt matter? You quite literally ignored my whole response and simply claimed it doesnt matter, something you have yet to prove.
If things were pulled in at an omnidirectional angle, they would be flowing towards the middle as the force pulling them was spinning. They wouldn’t be flowing at a 360 angle as that goes against them being pulled. Ill give multiple examples of this. Example one is this hurricane from space. Now why would this be a good example in regards to your “evidence”. A hurricane spins with so much force that it drags clouds in near it as its spinning, and you can literally see the clouds around it being spun and dragged into the middle. Take a good look at how these clouds are being dragged into the middle. It is not a complete 360 motion. Heres another. Notice how the water around it is being pulled in a spun by the spinning force. Notice how the water is being pulled in? This applies to all mights feat.
If your claim was indeed correct (nothing supports it besides “clouds spinning”) and these clouds were pulled in over great distances by a spinning source, then they would be spinning in the ways that I have provided.
Simply calling this irrelevant will be an act of red herring. Directly tackle my argument or concede.
So not only did you falsely claim that you explained why its irrelevant, you completely disregarded the argument which is extremely disrespectful as it wastes my time.

Ive read over your “paragraphs” and I have responded to them, can you elaborate on how that is “evidence” of me not reading your paragraphs? I fail to see how that is the case.
The cyclone vanishing means nothing.
The momentum that was generated by them is what matters. The cyclone was powerful enough to create clouds, and since the source creating them was spinning, i fail to understand why it wouldnt make any sense for it to spin as well. Can you please explain why it wouldnt make any sense?
Going by your own reasoning. Its impossible for the cyclone to be the reason for the spinning because as its gone meaning its effect is no longer taking place.
So the reason for the clouds spinning is because they were pulled in and the force of the cyclone was still in place, amirite? This same reasoning can be applied to all might creating spinning clouds.
———-
After reading the feat again, its started to rain immediately after he generated the punch and then its stated that the rising air current and the pressure for it caused rain. This is a real life concept that can quite literally cause rain.
In the manga he changed the weather by making it rain.
Nothing suggests he dragged clouds over a large distance, or cause any clouds to spin. Meaning the anime quite literally contradicts the manga and goes against the canon guidelines.
So the feat represented in the anime is completely different from the manga. This should be enough to simply scrap this since reasoning isnt gonna help at all
Click to expand...
Alrighty then, I'm putting an end to this once and for all.

You straw-manning me.​

How is it not a straw-man? I said that the only thing the air is doing here is creating the clouds over a long distance, not pulling it in. That's what the cyclone did. Meanwhile, you took my argument out of context and pretended that I said it was the air being blown omnidirectional that pulled the clouds in.

Let me break this down as coherently as possible for you since you're incapable of understanding basic logic apparently.
  • I said that the air was the reason that the clouds were created via CAPE over a dozen kilometers away. And the cyclone was responsible for pulling said clouds in.
  • You said that my argument was saying, "the air was pulling in the clouds omnidirectional." Which I never stated. Hell, the only reason I even mentioned wind pressure to begin with was because of the fact that you asked me how All Might could simultaneously create the clouds, while pulling them in over a long distance.
CONCLUSION; if you're taking your opponent's arguments completely out of context, so you can refute the stuff the argument never even mentioned, thanks to the fabricated bullshit within your own rendition of the opponent's arguments, that counts as a straw man. Which is exactly what you just did.

You could scream into my ear that I'm wrong, and it wouldn't do you any justice that you just straw-manned me.

Me committing the "false dilemma" fallacy.​

Oh boy, you dug yourself deep this time.

The false dilemma fallacy is when a person presents several options, (sometimes fewer) as the only logical outcomes, when in fact there are several more possible outcomes. They're basically choosing to ignore said outcomes. Which is fallacious behavior.

This doesn't line up for me. Because for one, I've given evidence suggesting why All Might pulling the clouds in is the only possible explanation as to why they're rotating in the first place, (regardless if they're not supposed to be doing a 360 if they're being pulled in).

It doesn't matter if the clouds aren't spinning like they should be spinning if they were sucked in from an external force. It's not like the clouds are spinning for absolutely no reason at all. There's no funnel cloud present, it's not a hurricane or a tropical storm. For the clouds to be showing movement like this in the first place, to be spinning in a 360 movement, not unlike the cyclone All Might generate himself, that would have to imply the cyclone pulled them.

You could argue about the semantics of whether or not the clouds being pulled in and then doing 360 rotations are realistic or not, but you'd be repeating yourself. That's all you'd be doing. I've already provided evidence proving you wrong, backed up my arguments, shown you the error in your logic. So there's nothing else you can really do other than babble more and more about this. You're just gonna have to cope with the fact that this part of your argument doesn't make sense.

The momentum of the cyclone.​

If the cyclone itself dissipated, the momentum it would produce would have to die down. That's just how physics works. If a tornado ceases to exist, chances are? The objects that it was spinning and carrying along with it would as well.

Unless you're trying to argue that the momentum of the cyclone lasted for over 10 seconds, even after the cyclone dissipated, (which you would require evidence for), the momentum of the cyclone shouldn't even be brought up.

The effects of the cyclone.​

I will say this, your guess on what my argument meant was a very good guess! But it's still wrong.

The cyclone already started to bring the clouds in over a long distance way before it started dissipating, one could easily conclude that. It's not possible for the momentum of the cyclone to last 10 seconds, so this is the only logical conclusion. Unless we're going to pull the, "because it's fiction, things can be different!" card.

The clouds raining.​

No.

The clouds raining has no refuted on whether or not All Might's cyclone pulled the clouds in. As I already stated and even proven before, it's possible for the clouds to be created by the wind pressure carried over a long distance, and then brought in via the cyclone. The rain is just the result of the clouds being generated via the wind pressure, which I will remind you, traveled a large distance.

The anime vs manga.​

This shouldn't even be brought up at this point, but here we go.

Nothing suggests he brought the clouds in over a long distance in the manga, sure. But nothing disproves that he did so. And so we can use the anime. Once again, there's literally nothing that separates the manga and anime version of the feat other than the fact that the clouds were shown to be spinning in the anime, which doesn't contradict shit from the manga.

Conclusion​

I don't have much more to say other than the fact your concession was accepted. Since you willingly left the debate on your own. Have a nice day.
 
ÆONS said:
This discussion overall has made me uncomfortable and no one is really interested in talking about it anymore besides Earthboy. So I would like it to not be present anymore in this thread. Could anyone else besides Timmy (they're dipping out of the conversation) please take this elsewhere so we could continue talking about something more relevant?
Click to expand...
That's fine. Once my CRT opens back up? We can take the argument into there.
 
AtomicSekiro said:
Just like how Shigaraki speedblitzed and one shot everyone he came across in the war arc? Oh wait, that didn’t happen. He had a hard fight from start to end and would have died if he didn’t have regeneration; something AFO has not been shown to possess anymore, at least, not in his fight with All Might.
Click to expand...
If afo speed blitz can one shots aizawa i fail to see what chance everyone else has
 
But AFO can’t blitz Aizawa and one shot because he’d have no quirks to do so, and if he tries to use physicals, he gets evaporated by Endeavor. Why would he risk that? Oh, and he‘d probably have a heart attack on the spot due to lack of longevity quirk.

If Shigaraki couldn’t, why could AFO, who is /probably/ physically weaker and slower? (I think)
 
Right. Although many MHA characters are physically slow in movement speed, most characters or at least the veterans have pretty high perception. They might not be able to move at supersonic or hypersonic speeds but they can perceive things moving at such speeds and for Aizawa, that's all he needs.


Also AFO's physical speed is unknown apart from scaling to All Might who wasn't even using his speed much & Edgeshot. We don't even know if he has a speed quirk or how fast his top speed is if he had one.
 
AtomicSekiro said:
But AFO can’t blitz Aizawa and one shot because he’d have no quirks to do so, and if he tries to use physicals, he gets evaporated by Endeavor. Why would he risk that? Oh, and he‘d probably have a heart attack on the spot due to lack of longevity quirk.

If Shigaraki couldn’t, why could AFO, who is /probably/ physically weaker and slower? (I think)
Click to expand...
Physically AFO is so strong, he was capable of taking and blocking multiple attacks from AM without any sign of using any quirks
 
No. Shigaraki began running at Aizawa, Aizawa grabbed his knife, Shigaraki reached Aizawa, Shigaraki viciously headpat Aizawa, then Deku snagged him with Blackwhip.
 
Plus dont you think he would keep eraser head in mind? If his goal was to take UA out why would he just attack head on when he could easily attack them from range and kill most if not all people
 
TimmyTurnero said:
Physically AFO is so strong, he was capable of taking and blocking multiple attacks from AM without any sign of using any quirks
Click to expand...
Yes. He’s physically muscly strong. Endeavor uses /fire/.

All Might was holding back most of their fight to protect civilians. He only truly punched 3 times. The first was when he was beginning to lose his muscle form, and knocked AFO on his ass and destroyed his mask and breathing support, making him lose his composure a bit. The second hit him in the face and made him clench his teeth and look pretty angry. The last completely incapped him long enough for him to get to Tartarus.

He never tried going blow to blow besides when Bakugo was super close so All Might had to hold back, or using his Ultimate Quirk Combination.
 
I was thinking about the other time.

Aizawa is still staring right at him tho, despite being mostly turned away the page before. He’s just not physically capable of moving faster.

And Shigaraki is literally falling apart and was saved by regen, is faster and stronger than AFO physically from what we know so far. AFO doesn’t have regen. So if he tried this he would he dead. He would lose.
 
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