My Hero Academia: Awakened Shigaraki CRT

[CloverDragon03]

I was worried about the reception that would come from making this CRT, but at this point, I really want to do so because this has been bugging me so... oh well. Yes, I think Awakened Shigaraki should be 8-A. I am 99% sure this topic has been debated before, but I've been rereading the My Villain Academia arc and it just seems clearer and clearer to me that Shigaraki should scale to 100% Stress Re-Destro.

First and foremost, Shigaraki stops the force of Re-Destro's punch with one hand. While it's true that he was using Decay, he had to exert an equal and opposite force in order to completely stop his punch to begin with (as the net force would be equal to 0, and as such, Shigaraki would be exerting a force that's equal in magnitude but opposite in direction). That's basic physics. Plus, he had to be touching Re-Destro for a short period in order to start the Decay process, and he was able to stalemate Re-Destro's punch for that period before Decay began.

Next comes the page that immediately follows the one I just linked. A massive shockwave is formed from Re-Destro's punch. Not only that, but this shockwave is actually the 8-A feat on Re-Destro's profile. As shown by the left side of the page where Shigaraki walks out from the dust kicked up by the shockwave, he withstands the 8-A shockwave just fine (despite being at the origin of it). Also, just as support, post-Gigantomachia Training, pre-Awakening Shigaraki survives multiple hits from Re-Destro. So, there's that.

So, yeah, I understand the argument that he was using Decay, but I think even with that, he's shown enough on the side of AP and Durability to scale to 100% Stress Re-Destro (no, I will not mention him blocking Re-Destro's Claustro-amped punch, that was anime only).

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Following

I also brought popcorn

 

[CloverDragon03]

Following

I also brought popcorn

Stay a while, it'll be fun

 

[KingTempest]

meh, looks fine to me

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Makes sense tbh.

 

[Damage3245]

First and foremost, Shigaraki stops the force of Re-Destro's punch with one hand. While it's true that he was using Decay, he had to exert an equal and opposite force in order to completely stop his punch to begin with (as the net force would be equal to 0, and as such, Shigaraki would be exerting a force that's equal in magnitude but opposite in direction). That's basic physics. Plus, he had to be touching Re-Destro for a short period in order to start the Decay process, and he was able to stalemate Re-Destro's punch for that period before Decay began.

100% disagree with this. Shigaraki is not stopping Re-Destro's attack with equal counter-force; he's simply destroying it. He even says he is destroying it before it connects with him.

I know you've said you've already acknowledged it, but I still maintain this as my main reason for disagreeing with this proposal.

My other reason is that a less than 100% Re-Destro effortlessly crushed Shigaraki's hand with just two fingers, and he tore off a part of Shigraki's hand with a glancing blow from his earlier attack. It seems pretty clear to me that Shigaraki's durability is nowhere close to Re-Destro's AP, let alone 100% Re-Destro.

 

[LordTracer]

The OP makes sense to me.

 

[Fikriskps]

I was worried about the reception that would come from making this CRT, but at this point, I really want to do so because this has been bugging me so... oh well. Yes, I think Awakened Shigaraki should be 8-A. I am 99% sure this topic has been debated before, but I've been rereading the My Villain Academia arc and it just seems clearer and clearer to me that Shigaraki should scale to 100% Stress Re-Destro.

First and foremost, Shigaraki stops the force of Re-Destro's punch with one hand. While it's true that he was using Decay, he had to exert an equal and opposite force in order to completely stop his punch to begin with (as the net force would be equal to 0, and as such, Shigaraki would be exerting a force that's equal in magnitude but opposite in direction). That's basic physics. Plus, he had to be touching Re-Destro for a short period in order to start the Decay process, and he was able to stalemate Re-Destro's punch for that period before Decay began.

Next comes the page that immediately follows the one I just linked. A massive shockwave is formed from Re-Destro's punch. Not only that, but this shockwave is actually the 8-A feat on Re-Destro's profile. As shown by the left side of the page where Shigaraki walks out from the dust kicked up by the shockwave, he withstands the 8-A shockwave just fine (despite being at the origin of it). Also, just as support, post-Gigantomachia Training, pre-Awakening Shigaraki survives multiple hits from Re-Destro. So, there's that.

So, yeah, I understand the argument that he was using Decay, but I think even with that, he's shown enough on the side of AP and Durability to scale to 100% Stress Re-Destro (no, I will not mention him blocking Re-Destro's Claustro-amped punch, that was anime only).

Jjk

 

[speedster352]

Seems fine

 

[LordGriffin1000]

100% disagree with this. Shigaraki is not stopping Re-Destro's attack with equal counter-force; he's simply destroying it. He even says he is destroying it before it connects with him.

I know you've said you've already acknowledged it, but I still maintain this as my main reason for disagreeing with this proposal.

My other reason is that a less than 100% Re-Destro effortlessly crushed Shigaraki's hand with just two fingers, and he tore off a part of Shigraki's hand with a glancing blow from his earlier attack. It seems pretty clear to me that Shigaraki's durability is nowhere close to Re-Destro's AP, let alone 100% Re-Destro.

Going to agree with Damage. If he's destroying the attack before it truly connects then i don't see why he'd scale.

 

[CloverDragon03]

100% disagree with this. Shigaraki is not stopping Re-Destro's attack with equal counter-force; he's simply destroying it. He even says he is destroying it before it connects with him.

I know you've said you've already acknowledged it, but I still maintain this as my main reason for disagreeing with this proposal.

Believe it or not, I looked at this line for a good minute or so thinking about how this still connects with my claim, as it's probably the most valid counterclaim, and this is what I came up with:

"Before it connects" is rather vague. Does he mean before it touches him? Or before he himself is struck by the move? I've concluded that the former interpretation, which is what would nuke my proposition, doesn't make sense due to the nature of his Quirk. He needs to be touching something in order to Decay it, as he wasn't touching anything already that would decay Re-Destro via spreading to him. He hasn't shown himself capable of decaying the very air around him either, so he wouldn't be able to use Decay on Re-Destro without the attack actually touching him.

My other reason is that a less than 100% Re-Destro effortlessly crushed Shigaraki's hand with just two fingers, and he tore off a part of Shigraki's hand with a glancing blow from his earlier attack. It seems pretty clear to me that Shigaraki's durability is nowhere close to Re-Destro's AP, let alone 100% Re-Destro.

These were done before Shigaraki's awakening, which is not relevant to the CRT. I mentioned pre-Awakening Shigaraki surviving hits from Re-Destro as support, but it could just as easily be discarded and I'd still maintain my stance.

 

[Damage3245]

"Before it connects" is rather vague. Does he mean before it touches him? Or before he himself is struck by the move? I've concluded that the former interpretation, which is what would nuke my proposition, doesn't make sense due to the nature of his Quirk. He needs to be touching something in order to Decay it, as he wasn't touching anything already that would decay Re-Destro via spreading to him. He hasn't shown himself capable of decaying the very air around him either, so he wouldn't be able to use Decay on Re-Destro without the attack actually touching him.

Oh, I don't doubt that he touched the attack to decay it. All I'm saying is that he didn't tank it or withstand it, or use his durability to survive it or his strength to stop it.

I think it's pretty clear what happpened, and that is that he used his Quirk to destroy the attack.

Which means he wouldn't scale to it, certainly not in "striking strength" or in his actual durability since if he destroyed the attack then he obviously isn't being hit with the force of it.

Not to mention him being harmed by much weaker attacks.

These were done before Shigaraki's awakening, which is not relevant to the CRT. I mentioned pre-Awakening Shigaraki surviving hits from Re-Destro as support, but it could just as easily be discarded and I'd still maintain my stance.

Shigaraki's "awakening" has nothing to do with his physical statistics. There is no indication that he got more durable as a result of remembering something.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Believe it or not, I looked at this line for a good minute or so thinking about how this still connects with my claim, as it's probably the most valid counterclaim, and this is what I came up with:

"Before it connects" is rather vague. Does he mean before it touches him? Or before he himself is struck by the move? I've concluded that the former interpretation, which is what would nuke my proposition, doesn't make sense due to the nature of his Quirk. He needs to be touching something in order to Decay it, as he wasn't touching anything already that would decay Re-Destro via spreading to him. He hasn't shown himself capable of decaying the very air around him either, so he wouldn't be able to use Decay on Re-Destro without the attack actually touching him.

In my opinion. I think he means before the force is applied. If he touches the attack and decays it before it has any time to apply all of the force, he could effectively stop the attack without real harm

 

[Damage3245]

In my opinion. I think he means before the force is applied. If he touches the attack and decays it before it has any time to apply all of the force, he could effectively stop the attack without real harm

Yep. That makes sense to me.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Oh, I don't doubt that he touched the attack to decay it. All I'm saying is that he didn't tank it or withstand it, or use his durability to survive it or his strength to stop it.

I think it's pretty clear what happpened, and that is that he used his Quirk to destroy the attack.

Which means he wouldn't scale to it, certainly not in "striking strength" or in his actual durability since if he destroyed the attack then he obviously isn't being hit with the force of it.

Not to mention him being harmed by much weaker attacks.

Shigaraki's Decay is not instant. Even when he touches the ground to begin his mass Deika City decay, it takes a moment for the Decay to activate. Even with Re-Destro's punch itself, there's a good moment between Re-Destro landing the punch and it starting to Decay. If Shigaraki didn't have the force needed to stop the punch before decaying it, he would've been overwhelmed and possibly even sent flying before he could decay the punch.

Shigaraki's "awakening" has nothing to do with his physical statistics. There is no indication that he got more durable as a result of remembering something.

How are we sure of this? Plus, speaking of durability, there's the fact that he was at the epicenter of the shockwave that was calculated to be 8-A and emerged from it completely fine.

 

[Damage3245]

Shigaraki's Decay is not instant. Even when he touches the ground to begin his mass Deika City decay, it takes a moment for the Decay to activate. Even with Re-Destro's punch itself, there's a good moment between Re-Destro landing the punch and it starting to Decay. If Shigaraki didn't have the force needed to stop the punch before decaying it, he would've been overwhelmed and possibly even sent flying before he could decay the punch.

Indeed it is not instant, but I still see no reason for Shigaraki to scale to the full thing. He didn't block it with physical statistics, and he didn't tank it.

How are we sure of this? Plus, speaking of durability, there's the fact that he was at the epicenter of the shockwave that was calculated to be 8-A and emerged from it completely fine.

It seems to me that the majority of the force which would have hit him was destroyed by his Decay, which explains how he only took a moderate amount of damage from Re-Destro's strongest attack when Re-Destro's much weaker attacks were wrecking him.

And I'm fairly sure that Shigaraki just remembering something from his past wouldn't cause his body to get several times tougher.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Indeed it is not instant, but I still see no reason for Shigaraki to scale to the full thing. He didn't block it with physical statistics, and he didn't tank it.

And that's the thing. If he was still 8-C to High 8-C, he wouldn't have even been able to stop the attack for a moment. He would've been immediately overwhelmed before his Decay could take effect. He had to have physically stopped it for at least a moment in order to accomplish this.

It seems to me that the majority of the force which would have hit him was destroyed by his Decay, which explains how he only took a moderate amount of damage from Re-Destro's strongest attack when Re-Destro's much weaker attacks were wrecking him.

Force is transferred pretty much instantly, it's not a longer/accumulative process, so Shigaraki would've taken the full force in that moment.

Also, even assuming the force was lessened, the shockwave from that "lessened force" is what was calculated at 8-A. Shigaraki was in the center of that 8-A shockwave and came out just fine.

And I'm fairly sure that Shigaraki just remembering something from his past wouldn't cause his body to get several times tougher.

And I get that sentiment, but the issue is that neither of us can fully say for sure, so that point becomes moot and we need to just go off of what we do know.

 

[Damage3245]

And that's the thing. If he was still 8-C to High 8-C, he wouldn't have even been able to stop the attack for a moment. He would've been immediately overwhelmed before his Decay could take effect. He had to have physically stopped it for at least a moment in order to accomplish this.

I don't see why he wouldn't have been able to tbh. It's just fiction logic; he didn't use an equal amount of joules to counteract the attack, he used his magical Quirk power to destroy it. Doesn't have to make completely logical sense for it to have happened.

Force is transferred pretty much instantly, it's not a longer/accumulative process, so Shigaraki would've taken the full force in that moment.

And before that force connected with him, he was destroying it.

Also, even assuming the force was lessened, the shockwave from that "lessened force" is what was calculated at 8-A. Shigaraki was in the center of that 8-A shockwave and came out just fine.

The 8-A calc is for the amount of force that didn't hit Shigaraki. We have no reason to believe he tanked 100% of that force, or anything close to it.

And I get that sentiment, but the issue is that neither of us can fully say for sure, so that point becomes moot and we need to just go off of what we do know.

I can say for sure that there is no implication that his awakening altered his physical statistics. What he gained was unlocking the original potential of his Quirk which was his expanded range with Decay.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don't see why he wouldn't have been able to tbh. It's just fiction logic; he didn't use an equal amount of joules to counteract the attack, he used his magical Quirk power to destroy it. Doesn't have to make completely logical sense for it to have happened.

It needs to at least make some sense, and being able to stop a force with a much weaker force is breaking the most basic of physics. The excuse of "it's just fiction" only gets you so far.

And before that force connected with him, he was destroying it.

The force was applied on contact, so he would've had to destroy it before it even touched him, which was clearly not what happened.

The 8-A calc is for the amount of force that didn't hit Shigaraki. We have no reason to believe he tanked 100% of that force, or anything close to it.

What? That's not what the calc is. The force of Re-Destro's punch was stopped by Shigaraki, and the sudden contact caused a shockwave from the fist, and Shigaraki was at the origin of that shockwave.

I can say for sure that there is no implication that his awakening altered his physical statistics. What he gained was unlocking the original potential of his Quirk which was his expanded range with Decay.

Being able to withstand attacks from Re-Destro better as I've said before would indicate quite the opposite.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Also I wanna note in advance that as I am in the middle of my most packed week of AP and IB Exams, I may not respond as frequently later since I've gotta study. Hope you don't mind

 

[XVII]

ok so i'm gonna make a argument...

ok, so i guess it's pretty clear that normally the body of a quirk user has natural adaptations to protect itself from any damage the quirk might do to them without these natural defenses. for example, someone who can breathe fire does not burn their mouth when using their ability.

however quirks are based on the physiology and as such can be affected by the user's emotions, for example shigaraki's awakening: had initially displayed a devastating amount of power when it was first developed (he almost instantly made people decay), but then became greatly scaled back due to him repressing the traumatic moments of killing his family (he took a long time to partially decay aizawa at the usj arc). he only "re-awakened" his quirk during his fight with re-destro, making it become just as destructive as his original power, if not more (he decayed everything real fast).

so even tho his AP should definitely be 8-A, his dura shouldn't scale... just sayin'

 

[KingTempest]

If his AP scales for feats of this nature then his durability would automatically scale
You can't upgrade his AP for a durability negation's quirk's mechanics

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

I’ll agree with the OP.
For more supporting evidence @CloverDragon03 Remember how Machia is 8-A even at his lowest of points? The same machia who Shigaraki trained with for what was it? A month?

If his AP scales for feats of this nature then his durability would automatically scale
You can't upgrade his AP for a durability negation's quirk's mechanics

oh wait I thought we were just talking durability here, keeping the 8-C rating just buffing his durability

 

[KingTempest]

I’ll agree with the OP.
For more supporting evidence @CloverDragon03 Remember how Machia is 8-A even at his lowest of points? The same machia who Shigaraki trained with for what was it? A month?

oh wait I thought we were just talking durability here, keeping the 8-C rating just buffing his durability

I'm commenting on the message directly above mine

 

[XVII]

If his AP scales for feats of this nature then his durability would automatically scale
You can't upgrade his AP for a durability negation's quirk's mechanics

we cant scale if he, for exampled killed saitama with it (kira yoshikage moment). just because he killed a 5-C via hax doesn't make him 5-C

however we are talking about environmental destruction so it can scale to him yes

 

[KingTempest]

we cant scale if he, for exampled killed saitama with it (kira yoshikage moment). just because he killed a 5-C via hax doesn't make him 5-C

however we are talking about environmental destruction so it can scale to him yes

the ability is hax in general. you can't scale it to ED either since it's unquantifiable hax

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mark me as neutral now since the evidence for both sides make sense

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

I'm commenting on the message directly above mine

Ik, I was just now realizing that upgrading AP was also there.
ive always though his durability should atleast downscale from Gigantomachia (he was bound to get hit once in that month long training).
I agree with you nothing should change with his AP, he just had to take some hits on 8-A level eventually (even if we don’t count re-destro machia is at like 214, >400 unmotivated?)

 

[XVII]

the ability is hax in general. you can't scale it to ED either since it's unquantifiable hax

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mark me as neutral now since the evidence for both sides make sense

i mean, if he can do a 8-A feat using his hax why wouldn't it scale to him?? i understand that it's because it nullifies dura meaning that even a 10-C could do the same thing but i mean, he should scale to re-destro bruh

 

[Damage3245]

I’ll agree with the OP.
For more supporting evidence @CloverDragon03 Remember how Machia is 8-A even at his lowest of points? The same machia who Shigaraki trained with for what was it? A month?

oh wait I thought we were just talking durability here, keeping the 8-C rating just buffing his durability

The same Machia who could tear Shiggy's clones to shreds effortlessly.

Shiggy is not scaling to Machia in any way.

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

The same Machia who could tear Shiggy's clones to shreds effortlessly.

Shiggy is not scaling to Machia in any way.

Don’t the clones have less durability?
Twice himself said it, if they could break an arm on a clone the clone dies.
I don’t think Tomura ”I got my kneecaps shot out“ Shigaraki will die from a broken arm

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

mark me as neutral now since the evidence for both sides make sense

Same.

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

Same.

agreed though I do want 8-A durability Shigaraki

 

[SuperStar]

Don’t the clones have less durability?

Yup

 

[CloverDragon03]

Given Shigaraki's withstanding of the shockwave formed from Re-Destro's punch, which was calculated at 8-A, and Damage's arguments, I may also be fine with only giving him 8-A durability (due to the speculative nature of him stopping Re-Destro's punch)

 

[Kingofwolves999]

This is a topic I knew would eventually be brought up by someone, and thank god it’s someone like Clover

So, the initial point and most important thing to note about all of this: decay is NOT instant. Though it works incredibly fast, never has it been shown to be instant, and especially not to such a degree that it would disintegrate an object before he even feels the force of it touching him.

With that in mind, the conclusion that he is at least 8-A in durability should be fairly simple. He grabbed the Stress Ball out of the air and decayed it. He had to have withstood the force of the stress ball for a moment in order to do this, and was fine afterwards. This is shown in the panel of him destroying the stress ball, where he is decaying it as it spreads around him, effectively holding it back with brute force alone while he decays it. He should scale to the destruction the Stress ball caused.

Also, another point that should noted, the stress ball he decayed still caused 8-A damage, meaning it should be even stronger than that if anything. He was standing DEAD CENTER of where the 8-A shockwaves spawned from, so even if he doesn’t scale to the ball itself, he was right where the damage itself happened and was completely fine after his awakening. Everything around him that didn’t even get touched by the stress ball was reduced to nothing, but Shigaraki, who got hit dead on, was fine after decaying it. Attempting to claim he wasn’t hit by the shockwave of the attack at all when he is the closest object to it is plain wrong. Even if decaying it made it weaker, it weakened it to be 8-A, and even then, he withstood the 8-A destruction point blank while everything else around him, including the ground, was destroyed.

I whole heartedly believe he should scale for his durability at least. This is a clear scene of withstanding an attack, and even if he was weakening the attack while it was in contact with him, he still survived the initial contact and the destruction it caused AFTER he fully decayed it. So I’m definitely on board.

Not to mention this doesn’t really contradict anything from what I can remember. I don’t recall Weakest Form Machia ever one shotting Shigaraki clones, and even if he did that would just scale Weakest Form Machia since Machia’s 8-A feats are ridiculously casual or from him running, not his attacks, and it lends evidence to the fear that he would defeat Re Destro.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Twice's clones are less durable, for that reason we don't scale Nighteye to Rappa who is 8-B. As the Rappa clone he made isn't as durable as Rappa.

In this instant, decay is starting but he has already been hit as well. However Shigaraki clearly implies that he took less damage from this attack, and as we know beforehand Shigaraki got his fingers removed from the shockwave of Re-Destro punching the ground. So something much stronger would do far worse damage.

Also liked to point out that this attack isn't actually 100% of Re-Desto's power, as he said it was suppose to be 100% but he was feeling less stress.

Awakenings do not increase physical abilities, unless the Quirk in question already increases their physical abilities. Though that is only speculation, as Quirk Awakening doesn't always make a Quirk stronger in terms of power. Geten's Ice Manipulation evolved and now allows him control the temperature of the ice.

Shigaraki's awakening allowed him to decay with less than five fingers. Spreading decay wasn't an awakening, as he could always do that but was subconsciously holding it back. I see no reason, without in universe backing, to assuming his awakening increased his durability. Especially by such a huge factor, over 100X more in a instant.

Trying to say Shigaraki got more durable in this way is unfounded.

If you want Shigaraki to scale to Re-Destro as suggested. You need to provide proof that his awakening also caused his physical durability to increase. Shigaraki himself stated that destroying his attack lessened the damage he took. How much did it lessen it? We don't know, fiction can say whatever the hell it wants regarding this.

Since even if it doesn't make sense in reality, if Shigaraki survived the blow because he decayed it then that is how it works.

The problem is that Shigaraki is shown, without decay's help, to lose parts of his body from the shockwave of a weaker Re-Destro.

 

[CloverDragon03]

This is a topic I knew would eventually be brought up by someone, and thank god it’s someone like Clover

I'm glad you hold me in high regard like that

Also, another point that should noted, the stress ball he decayed still caused 8-A damage, meaning it should be even stronger than that if anything. He was standing DEAD CENTER of where the 8-A shockwaves spawned from, so even if he doesn’t scale to the ball itself, he was right where the damage itself happened and was completely fine after his awakening. Everything around him that didn’t even get touched by the stress ball was reduced to nothing, but Shigaraki, who got hit dead on, was fine after decaying it. Attempting to claim he wasn’t hit by the shockwave of the attack at all when he is the closest object to it is plain wrong. Even if decaying it made it weaker, it weakened it to be 8-A, and even then, he withstood the 8-A destruction point blank while everything else around him, including the ground, was destroyed.

Yeah, I'm fine with not scaling his AP, but when he's dead center of an 8-A shockwave, that's pretty blatant for his durability

Twice's clones are less durable, for that reason we don't scale Nighteye to Rappa who is 8-B. As the Rappa clone he made isn't as durable as Rappa.

If you want Shigaraki to scale to Re-Destro as suggested. You need to provide proof that his awakening also caused his physical durability to increase. Shigaraki himself stated that destroying his attack lessened the damage he took. How much did it lessen it? We don't know, fiction can say whatever the hell it wants regarding this.

When did Shigaraki say this? Are you referring to the "just gotta destroy it all before you connect" scan?

 

[Damage3245]

Yeah, I'm fine with not scaling his AP, but when he's dead center of an 8-A shockwave, that's pretty blatant for his durability

Except when it is inconsistent considering his earlier durability feats.

It seems far more reasonable that Shigaraki just lessened the force that he was hit with. I'm fine with giving him a "possibly higher" to his existing rating but I am 100% against upgrading him to 8-A.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Except when it is inconsistent considering his earlier durability feats.

It seems far more reasonable that Shigaraki just lessened the force that he was hit with. I'm fine with giving him a "possibly higher" to his existing rating but I am 100% against upgrading him to 8-A.

The thing is, the 8-A shockwave came from that “lessened force” you’re referring to. That just means 100% Re-Destro is “At least 8-A”

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Agree FRA, I think giving him 8-A AP is unlikely but 8-A dura is logical considering the nature of decay not being instant