My armor is cooler than yours - Gilgamesh (Fate) vs Kharn the Betrayer (Warhammer 40K)

[Primaris_Brian]

You actually have to prove his boon protects against that type and level of hax. Hax can bypass the tier system it talks about it on the hax page.

No need as the rest of the chaos gods is the prove for that.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Cerbus

Er... Just because Enuma Elish was stopped by a sixth dimensional defense doesn't mean that it's five dimensional.

 

[Cerbus]

As a side note everything I have listed is on their pages though not as clearly listed as they can be(sabers avalon directly lists immunity to 6D and below attacks directly while EA creates an artificial space time and bends it something only black holes and neutron stars do if my memory on theoretical physics is correct and the both in general relativity are stated to have a 6th dimensional effect) . If the other chaos gods have feats of blocking a 4D+ attacks while restrained I can't argue EA.

though that still doesn't discount SNI making it so he will win if it is technically possible. He is also blood lusted so his pride likely wouldn't get in his way. He also has less of it as this is fate/extra gilgamesh not stay night.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

Yep but apparently saber can't attack while use Avalon, which is why her match against mibu was considering as stomp, and what 4D+ attack? 4D is low 2-C.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

To be 4D, you have to be capable of annihilating an entire timeline of a single universe. Ea is NOT capable of doing that.

 

[Cerbus]

Ea effects space time. Any attack that effects time as at least some 4th dimensional effect. Normally a 5th and 6th dimensional effect as well, but the evidence of that isn't on the site so I can't actively point to it and I am too lazy to try and dig it up to prove otherwise. Technically one of its effects is returning the earth to a primordial state by destroying the earth's reality at its full power, but that is buried in side material and not on the site, so I can't quote it as evidence.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

Ea effects space time

and still 5-A, create content revision as right you just wanking gil and derailed the Thread.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Given that Logic, Sakuya, DIO, and Esdeath are all low 2-C for being able to affect time.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

Even dimaria is low 2-C and also natsu, as he one shot dimaria.

 

[Cerbus]

Look it's fine if you don't want to count it everything list is right on its page, besides even if it's hax is 2-C it's damage is still only large planet in scale. Any tier 4 or below can tank an attack of that magnitude with pure durability even if they can't nullify it. Hax has nothing to do with tier. At this point you are actively ignoring what it says on his profile and trying to twist rules.

Well either way I havery said my piece so good night. Oh and no one has proposed a way to deal with SNI

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

While Ea has space/time hax, it is still only 5-A in the amount of power behind that hax. This against another set of hax that has 4-A power behind it.

Not too mention that the Warp/Immaterium and its' influnence does not follow the typical rules of the 4-D universe of the Materium.

Edit:What does SNI going to do when Gil has nothing to work with? His best option to fly away on Vimana and leave Kharn alone, really.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

Hax has nothing to do with tier

Nope, as 2-C hax>>>low 2-C hax>>>3-A hax.

 

[Cerbus]

Fair point kharne is immune to all magic and gilgamesh himself is literally magic. That leaves a question. Gilgamesh is immune to conventional weaponry i.e.all non magic weapons what does kharne have to deal with that if nothing this battle is inconclusive as neither can harm the other. If not this is a stomp as gil's physical being is magic and thus cannot physically interact with kharne as per the rules of blood god armor unless dead fair by the blood god.

If he can however physically effect kharne in any way gil has XKJ (large to muti planet) striking potency which is enough to one shot kharne's small planet durability and SNI will give him the opening and let him know if he can even effect him Wirth a hit. After one hit the fight is over in that case.

 

[Cerbus]

Sry I got suckered into a final post

 

[Primaris_Brian]

Gil can beat Kharn physically, but if he try to throw some hax then Kharn will simply use Gorechild which will ignore gil hax defense and soul hax him to Khorne.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Remember that Kharn sits at Small-Planet at bare minimal and is more than likely far more powerful and durable than that. He fought numerous things in the Eye of Terror which included things that like Bloodthristers, who can reduce planets to dust and become as large as Solar Systems when in the Eye. The only reason he's not listed as higher is because we do not know all of the details, IIRC. He's been fighting constantly for 10,000 years. In addition, Kharn boasts a highly redudant physiology with multiple organs and healing processes.

Also, Gorechild, Kharn's axe, has become a soul sucking daemonic weapon. While Gil can most likely shrugg of the soul sucking affect, the axe is no longer a conventional weapon due to its' warp taint and should be capable of harming Gil.

 

[Cerbus]

Gil resists sout manipulation and has precog and gob has large planet level pen ignoring magical effects it's likely kharne couldn't even hit him let alone test whether his hax bypass gilgamesh's resistence. Gore child not actually being a product of Khorne likely doesn't have better hax then ccc/angra manyu which gilgamesh resisted (it having large planet level attack potency on the soul)

 

[Cerbus]

Soul*

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

@Cerbus

You do know, that I already pointed out that Gil can resist the soul hax, right? I was addressing the point of whether or not Gorechild is a conventional weapon, which it isn't.

 

[Cerbus]

That is a fair point but you can't use feats that might exist or many of these battles would go nowhere. Even something of small or even regular planet attack potency can kill a solar system sized beast it just wouldn't be in one atrack. Then again if we assume kharne is solar system level this again becomes a mismatch

 

[Primaris_Brian]

Everything in the warp is part and product of the chaos gods.

 

[Cerbus]

That is literally the same as saying everything in tenchi muyo is part and product of God Tenshi and thus should all be 1A just because chaos gods created the warp doesn't mean everything in it is 1-B in power and effect.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Kharn is low 5-B with a dura negating weapon. Gil is 5-A with tons of hax.

Given that Khorne will negate most of the hax and Kharn is most likely going to go H2H due to martial honour, this match seems pretty even.

It all boils down to who has better swordsmanship and experience.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

That is literally the same as saying everything in tenchi muyo is part and product of God Tenshi and thus should all be 1A just because chaos gods created the warp doesn't mean everything in it is 1-B in power and effect.

wot? what the hell are you talking about? who said everything is 1-A or 1-B? you say Gorechild is not product of Khorne, it is.

 

[Cerbus]

@TheC2

Sry I didn't see your comment it's difficult debating 2 different people at the same time and that is my bad.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

@Cerbus

It's okay. No harm, no foul

Kharn has killed a Lord of Change who was stated to be far more powerful than Velthinar (who was Small-Planet level). Kharn has also been killing other Greater Demons who vary in power but are no weaker than Velthinar. That's why Kharn's AP and DURA are: At least Small Planet level, likely far higher.We know that he's more than likely stronger than Small Planet but we do not know how much exactly. It's not that much of stretch of an imagination for him to be on Gil's level physically. Going further, Kharn is the more experienced of the two. He's been fighting virtually non-stop for 10,000 years.

 

[Cerbus]

Kharn is low 5-B with a dura negating weapon. Gil is 5-A with tons of hax.
Given that Khorne will negate most of the hax and Kharn is most likely going to go H2H due to martial honour, this match seems pretty even.

It all boils down to who has better swordsmanship and experience.

The problem is ignoring hax gilgamesh as better ranged attack potency, melee attack potency better durability and precognition allowing him to use the best strategy, and always make the best move. I don't think Kharm is bridging that gap with skill and his hax isn't effective offensively. With speed unequal maybe, but it is equalized removing that possible advantage.

@Not Jim Sterling I will put it another way. While it was created from material in the warp it is not directly scaled to Khorne directly because while he created the materials he did not make the weapon itself and thus I have no reason to believe it's soul hax gets passed gil's soul resist.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

Kharn will nullified ranged attack as it deemed ranged attack as unfair. And I have no idea what are you talking about as Khorne is not the one who create Kharn in the first place..he still able to give his anti hax blessing to Kharn after he become demon.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I don't think Kharm is bridging that gap with skill

We're talking about the guy with 10 millennia worth of experience here.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

And not to mention Kharn can still soul hax bunch of greaterdemon even though their soul is belonging to the other chaos gods.

 

[Cerbus]

@TheC2 I didn't know that as its not listed well on his page that being said that would bring up attack potency but not really durability unless a tanking feat came from it. Fate extra ccc is also at least large planet not capped at large planet fate extra servants managed to hurt the Buddha who is solar system level in lore though he doesn't show this off much in game (his strongest attack makes you one with the universe). He is also stated to have the ability to manipulate the solarsystem. So it's not like servants don't have higher scaling feats they just aren't easily scale able due to the nature of how they are set up.

The feats say at least because no one feels it's safe to scale them up to 4B, but even ignoring all of that gilgamesh's precog and more dangerous ranged attack still make me want to give it to him.

@Not Jim Sterling his ranged attacks are completely fair they are not hax in any way it's pure old fashioned attack potency that makes them powerful not magic or hax so blood armor doesn't protect against it.

@Sir Ovens and if it where normal precognition I wouldn't give it a second thought kharne would win. But it makes it so gilgamesh can always do the definitive best move according to his profile. It isn't a measurement of judgement or skill it's factually the best move he can make according to the description.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

No, Khorne blessing is not just for hax, but anything that is not fair.

 

[Cerbus]

They both have a ranged Weapon it isn't unfair unless you can prove it is. And even if you want to say gob is unfair because they are fired from portals or his spaceship then gilgamesh can literally pull out a bow without losing attack potency. It's hard to say a guy with a bow has an unfair advantage over the guy with a Plasma pistol from the super future.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

Are you read my comment above? Kharn will only use his weapon against unfair opponent and it on his profile that he can nullified projectiles which is not hax in any way.

 

[Cerbus]

Are you read my comment above? Kharn will only use his weapon against unfair opponent and it on his profile that he can nullified projectiles which is not hax in any way.

martial

adjectiveKharn is the most favoured mortal servant of Khorne, and is accordingly granted protection against witchery by his patron. This favour allows Kharn complete immunity to reality warping, mind control, psychic assaults, magic, etc. If it does not fall under honorable martial combat, Khorne will prevent it, forcing Kharn's enemies to face him on an equal playing field. BrE /ˈmɑːʃl/ ; NAmE /ˈmɑːrʃl/ (formal) [only before nou] Add to my wordlistconnected with fighting or war


no where does it say it deflects ranged weapons nor does it say it deflects bows as bows are quite literally a martial weapon and part of martial combat

 

[Primaris_Brian]

Powers and Abilities: Superhuman strength, speed, agility, dexterity, endurance, stamina and durability, Enhanced Senses, Low-light vision (Can fight in complete darkness), able to nullify magic, psychic powers, Reality Warping, as well as projectiles thanks to Khorne's blessings, Regenerationn (low-mid), Immortality (Types 1 and 4), Strong resistance to toxins and disease, Can survive in the vacuum of space, Extreme resistance to heat and Radiation, Has several backup organs should his regular ones fail, Basically all the abilities of a normal Space Marine and then some, Attacks from Gorechild ignore conventional and magical defenses, Can always be brought back from the dead by Khorne's will, His plasma pistol fires supercharged blasts of plasma which burn hotter than the core of a star.

........

Also what honorable martial combat when you fighting a guy with empty hand while using a bow?

 

[Cerbus]

Powers and Abilities: Superhuman strength, speed, agility, dexterity, endurance, stamina and durability, Enhanced Senses, Low-light vision (Can fight in complete darkness), able to nullify magic, psychic powers, Reality Warping, as well as projectiles thanks to Khorne's blessings, Regenerationn (low-mid), Immortality (Types 1 and 4), Strong resistance to toxins and disease, Can survive in the vacuum of space, Extreme resistance to heat and Radiation, Has several backup organs should his regular ones fail, Basically all the abilities of a normal Space Marine and then some, Attacks from Gorechild ignore conventional and magical defenses, Can always be brought back from the dead by Khorne's will, His plasma pistol fires supercharged blasts of plasma which burn hotter than the core of a star.
........

Also what honorable martial combat when you fighting a guy with empty hand while using a bow?

Just because it can negate ranged attacks doesn't mean it always does you have to prove gilgamesh's ranged attack is fundamentally not martial combat and is unfair. It's still a measure of strength and skill and is in no way underhanded or deceitful.The boon specifically states the attack has to be one of those 2 catagory es and being weaker than your opponent doesn't make their attacks any less of the two.

 

[Cerbus]

Or more of the two. It is also in fact honorable to use a bow and gilgamesh is handicapping himself making Kharn the arguably dishonorable one.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

Oh yeah because use a bow in karate or taekwondo fight is totally fair, again you just derailed the Thread.

Or more of the two. It is also in fact honorable to use a bow and gilgamesh is handicapping himself making Kharn the arguably dishonorable one.

again what are you talking about?

 

[Cerbus]

Martial arts is a form of martial combat, but so is kyudo which is a form martial combat that specializes in the bow. Martial combat is combat involving a martial weapon not martial arts, this also isn't derailing as this is central to the core of the fight whether or not gilgamesh gets to make ranged attacks is integral to the thread.