Mutant Upgrade

[Antvasima]

Roma and Adversary have strictly been portrayed as tier Low 2-C at best via their own powers going by my experience.

 

[Confluctor]

I see, been a long time since I read those stuff, so I don't remember myself. But still, being an important part of the universe should conceptually put him on a similar tier to Galactus and Phoenix.

 

[Antvasima]

@Zensum @C2_of_Omegon @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Newendigo @Ehnkr2beboh @Tllmbrg @Deagonx @Elizio33 @LordTracer

I would appreciate some help here.

 

[Antvasima]

I see, been a long time since I read those stuff, so I don't remember myself. But still, being an important part of the universe should conceptually put him on a similar tier to Galactus and Phoenix.

No, he is not an abstract entity, just a demonic deity, and again, Marvel's power levels for universal supposedly abstract entities vary a lot from storyline to storyline. Marvel itself tends to consider them universal at best most of the time.

Adversary is able to rewrite single universes to suit his tastes. That's it as far as I am aware.

 

[Confluctor]

I know, but going by the standards of the verse, it should fall under similar tiers to those entities. But i guess its better to wait and see if Roma feats blog is made, it will probably simplify things.

 

[Antvasima]

I am very uneasy with all of the exaggerated composite cosmology chain-scaling from single outliers for both Marvel and DC Comics cosmic entities.

 

[Confluctor]

Can't blame you there, but it's what it is. I don't think anyone has enough interest or time (or time) to de-composite Marvel cosmology, which means we are stuck with this forever, and that is the standard for the verse now, can't help it. If we start giving uneven and odd statistics to characters without de-composing the cosmology first, it will look extremely weird and unreliable.

Which leaves us with two options, we can wait for someone miraculous to fix the cosmology and put a ban on the high/god tiers of the verse for the time being. No upgrade or downgrade. Or we just go along with the evidence shown.

 

[Freedomstar]

1. Haven using his power while he was a fetus was able to create and warp a plane of existence that was a limbo dimension separating the multiverse and oblivion. When he was reborn in the 616 dimension Roma stated he was weak and gathering his powers back.

2. Forge stated a piece of Adversary that got free was a threat to existence. That piece was stated to be pan-dimensional.

Both of what I stated isn’t even Adversary operating at normal levels so I highly doubt Low 2-C is his best showing.

Not to mention if Adversary wasn't stopped on his second attempted to bring destruction... He was going to being chaos to all worlds and time strings.

Actually warping the Starlight Citadel would be an AP feat. It is a nexus to every dimension in existence and is stated to be an impossible place that -- space that encompasses all of existence

Roma tanked Mastermind trying to kill her and overpowered him. He had the amulet of right and the sword of Excalibur stated together can slunder the omniverse
It's stated in the databook her powers rival her father Merlyn. Merlyn is stronger Mad Jim Jaspers as stated in Die by the Sword
Roma tanks the Starlight Citadel destruction while inside caused by the chaos wave and every dimension in existence clashing and becoming one on her and yes she survived

I'll post more soon Roma also warped the Starlight citadel and uses the pan-dimensional energy of Otherworld as a power source after the Matrix energy was destroyed. Also, a note Otherworld is the source of magic in Marvel.

Yet Adversary ragdolled her multiple times

 

[Confluctor]

See, this is what I mean, 2c and 2a/low 1c is a bad place for adversary. Going by current standards, he should be way higher.


Btw, thanks for the scans/feats. It definitely help make it easier to understand their levels

 

[Freedomstar]

See, this is what I mean, 2c and 2a/low 1c is a bad place for adversary. Going by current standards, he should be way higher.


Btw, thanks for the scans/feats. It definitely help make it easier to understand their levels

She has a statement by Marvel in a databook. Stating Abraxas wasn't powerful enough to kill her and like her father, she is no less devious and faked her death.

But I can't find it lmaoo.

 

[Confluctor]

Plus data book statements gets rejected immediately oof

 

[Antvasima]

Can't blame you there, but it's what it is. I don't think anyone has enough interest or time (or time) to de-composite Marvel cosmology, which means we are stuck with this forever, and that is the standard for the verse now, can't help it. If we start giving uneven and odd statistics to characters without de-composing the cosmology first, it will look extremely weird and unreliable.

Which leaves us with two options, we can wait for someone miraculous to fix the cosmology and put a ban on the high/god tiers of the verse for the time being. No upgrade or downgrade. Or we just go along with the evidence shown.

I think that we should at least go by the scale of their actual feats rather than ridiculous amounts of chain scaling. Adversary has been shown capable of warping the space-time of a single universe, and that is it.

Also, I hope that we can tackle the Marvel Comics cosmology after we are done with DC Comics.

See, this is what I mean, 2c and 2a/low 1c is a bad place for adversary. Going by current standards, he should be way higher.

Giving Low 1-A statistics to the Adversary and Storm by scaling from Low 2-C feats is completely unacceptable. I am definitely not going to let it pass. Sorry.

 

[Confluctor]

I already disagreed with storm getting anything about 5-A (or 5-B now, will see if she gets affected).

 

[Antvasima]

Well, her goddess form defeated the Adversary and posed a threat to wannabe messiah state X-Man, so I personally don't mind Low 2-C statistics for her in that regard.

 

[Freedomstar]

I think it explains how she reappeared appeared after it looks like Abraxas killed her in Fantastic Four. Basically saying after Abraxas thought he killed her... She faked her death and fled.

I found it here

 

[Freedomstar]

I already disagreed with storm getting anything about 5-A (or 5-B now, will see if she gets affected).

Why is that? She defeated a complete Adversary, who was literally amped by faith. Which means it’s the strongest version of Adversary. As stated a piece of Adversary was a threat to existence. What makes it even more impressive is Storm overpowering him without a spirit spell.
We seen Adversary tank a full power attack from Roma and his powers shot back at him from Rogue.

 

[Freedomstar]

I believe with feats it should be 2-B to 2-A

1. Adversary had the power to bring destruction to all worlds and time strings
2. A piece of Adversary was a threat to existence and stated to be pan-dimensional
3. Adversary warped the starlight citadel which encompasses all of existence and still had control while weak from metal
4. Haven using Adversary powers (he was weak according to Roma until he gathered his energy) created a plane of existence which was the borderland between the multiverse and Oblivion
5. Defeated Roma multiple times who's durable enough to tank the starlight citadel falling on her and all of the dimensions in existence crashing into one on her. Along with Mastermind with weapons that made him multiversal. Roma is on par with her father Meryln, (though he has more experience) who is stronger than MJJ, who has a 2-C on here.
6. Tanked a full-powered blast from Roma, who at the time was using the pan-dimensional energy of Otherworld (the source of magic)
I believe these are higher than low 2-C

 

[Antvasima]

Pan-Dimensional does not automatically scale to raw power in Marvel and threat to existence recurrently only means significantly messing up the local universe.

 

[Antvasima]

I believe with feats it should be 2-B to 2-A

1. Adversary had the power to bring destruction to all worlds and time strings

Please show me the scans for this.

2. A piece of Adversary was a threat to existence and stated to be pan-dimensional

See my earlier comments. This is not reliable.

3. Adversary warped the starlight citadel which encompasses all of existence and still had control while weak from metal

Was the Starlight Citadel established as encompassing all of existence during the time of this event and within this story? We cannot use retroactive scaling in this regard.

4. Haven using Adversary powers (he was weak according to Roma until he gathered his energy) created a plane of existence which was the borderland between the multiverse and Oblivion

Please elaborate with scans of evidence and full context.

5. Defeated Roma multiple times who's durable enough to tank the starlight citadel falling on her and all of the dimensions in existence crashing into one on her. Along with Mastermind with weapons that made him multiversal. Roma is on par with her father Meryln, (though he has more experience) who is stronger than MJJ, who has a 2-C on here.

Please elaborate with scans here as well. The Citadel is usually just portrayed as an impressive building in any case. It falling on somebody is not very impressive, or is at most impossible to exactly gauge the scale for.

 

[Freedomstar]

He has always been stated and shown to be a threat to the existence yet showing feats above that. In fact, it being a piece of him being a threat to existence makes it even more impressive.

 

[Antvasima]

Please follow the instructions in my last message.

 

[Freedomstar]

Please show me the scans for this.

See my earlier comments. This is not reliable.

Was the Starlight Citadel established as encompassing all of existence during the time of this event and within this story? We cannot use retroactive scaling in this regard.

Please elaborate with scans of evidence and full context.

Please elaborate with scans here as well. The Citadel is usually just portrayed as an impressive building in any case. It falling on somebody is not very impressive, or is at most impossible to exactly gauge the scale for.

1. Stated Adversary goal is to bring chaos (which is his power) to all worlds and time strings
2. Pan-dimensional may not be reliable but a fraction of Adversary being a threat to existence is which is why he had to be stopped.
3. Yes an impossible place that -- space that encompasses all of existence and Adversary start warping it.
4. You replied to this part already on like the first page and even agreed it's a 2-A feat. Haven with Adversary's powers made a plane of existence between the multiverse and Oblivion. Her dimension was stated to be the borderland between the everything and the nothing (actually stated too many times it's consistent) even shown to warp the entire thing with her entire with Xavier
5. Just pretty impressive? The hallways alone can fit planets with room to spare and it was stated to be a place to encompasses all of existence

Roma tanked Mastermind trying to kill her and overpowered him. He had the amulet of right and the sword of Excalibur stated together can slunder the omniverse

It stated that Merlyn is the main event or threat compared to MJJ

 

[Antvasima]

1) That does not mean that he has the power to do so at the same time. Going by what Forge said, it seems like a chain reaction effect.

2) Existence recurrently means universal scale, not multiversal.

3) It was explicitly stated in this scan that his goal was to warp the local universe. Anything more than that is hyperbole.

4) The linked scans definitely do not imply that she created a realm of multiversal scale. It seems unquantifiable to me.

5) A hall that is large enough to contain planets is not very impressive and possibilities crashing into each other to resurrect Jim Jaspers is not quantifiable either. You might note that all of the weird creatures displayed in the scan also survived the event.

 

[Freedomstar]

1) That does not mean that he has the power to do so at the same time.

2) Existence recurrently means universal scale, not multiversal.

3) It was explicitly stated in this scan that his goal was to warp the local universe. Anything more than that is hyperbole.

4) The linked scans definitely do not imply that she created a realm of multiversal scale. It seems unquantifiable to me.

5) A hall that is large enough to contain planets is not very impressive and possibilities crashing into each other to resurrect Jim Jaspers is not quantifiable either. You might note that all of the weird creatures displayed in the scan also survived the event.

Nothing but downplay I see.
1. You didn't read the scan I see. " We came back here to this time string to try to stop a devious destructive seed of evil consequences that are being sown by the ancient mystic call the Adversary. It is a chain of trans-temporal events that could spread across the entire time continuum injecting all-time streams including ours" The scan goes on to say "His goal is to bring chaos to all worlds and time strings" So downplaying the scan and it's stated that he was going to cause a trans-temporal wave of chaos if he wasn't stopped.

2. I never said multiversal you're putting words in my context I never typed. I said a piece of Adversary was a threat to existence which he was. You said he's not above low 2-C right? I stated that the current Adversary with just a piece of him can replicate destroying and recreating existence to his own image as the story said. This means a fraction of Adversary > Classic Adversary. Which means he's massively more powerful with his entire self.

3. No, it was stated he's obsessed with the 616 universe because of humanity. The downplay isn't cute to call it a hyperbole when he still warped the Starlight and still had a hold while being hit by his weakness. So by your logic, Shuma gorath always fights for his control over Earth similar to the way Adversary fights to destroy and change the 616 universe... Let us go by your logic are you saying Shuma Gorath is only planet level despite showing feats massively above planet level? Is Galactus only planet level for always wanting to eat Earth just about all the time?

4. It's crazy how this feat is unquantifiable now when you agreed it was 2-A for Haven creating a plane of existence that was the borderland between the multiverse and Oblivion on the first page. I would imagine it would be an infinite dimension if it's separating the multiverse and Oblivion as acting as a borderland. But Post #62 to #67 wondering what's the change now when you literally agreed and said it could be applied??? I'm getting the impression you're downplaying everything now to stick to what you just said low 2-C.

5. You're backpaddling on your words. You said it was only an impressive building. You also stated falling on anyone is not impressive. I stated how is it not impressive when the halls alone can fit planets and it's stated to encompasses all of existence. Yep so if we are making notes so does this scan mean we downplay the chaos wave? They survived but it overpowered Roma and destroyed the starlight citadel? Just applying your logic

 

[Antvasima]

Nothing but downplay I see.

Tone down the ad hominem virtriole. I just don't agree with you.

1. You didn't read the scan I see. " We came back here to this time string to try to stop a devious destructive seed of evil consequences that are being sown by the ancient mystic call the Adversary. It is a chain of trans-temporal events that could spread across the entire time continuum injecting all-time streams including ours" The scan goes on to say "His goal is to bring chaos to all worlds and time strings" So downplaying the scan and it's stated that he was going to cause a trans-temporal wave of chaos if he wasn't stopped.

I read the scan. See my second sentence about this in the previous post.

2. I never said multiversal you're putting words in my context I said type. I said a piece of Adversary was a threat to existence which he was. You said he's now above low 2-C right? I stated that the current Adversary with just a piece of him can still destroy and recreate an existence that isn't even his complete self. Which means he's massively more powerful than his entire self.

Okay. Noted. Based on points 1 and 2, I am fine with "At least Low 2-C, possibly 2-A", given that we know for a fact that he can rewrite a universe, but not in what manner he can affect the lower multiverse.

3. No, it was stated he's obsessed with the 616 universe because of humanity. The downplay isn't cute to call it a hyperbole when he still warped the Starlight and still had a hold while being hit by his weakness. So by your logic, Shuma gorath always fights for his control over Earth similar to the way Adversary fights to destroy and change the 616 universe... Let us go by your logic are you saying Shuma Gorath is only planet level despite showing feats massively above planet level? Is Galactus only planet level for always wanting to eat Earth just about all the time?

The Starlight Citadel was not stated to encompass an entire multiverse within this story, and given that The Adversary's focus was the local universe, I find it unreliable to scale from.

4. It's crazy how this feat is unquantifiable now when you agreed it was 2-A for Haven creating a plane of existence that was the borderland between the multiverse and Oblivion on the first page. I would imagine it would be an infinite dimension which it's separating the multiverse and Oblivion. But Post #62 to #67 wondering what's the change now when you literally agreed and said it could be applied??? I'm getting the impression you're downplaying everything now to stick to what you just said low 2-C.

No, I just read the linked scans and found these ones in particular to not contain any evidence whatsoever of a multiversal scale.

5. You're backpaddling on your words. You said it was only an impressive building. You also stated falling on anyone is not impressive. I stated how is it not impressive when the halls alone can fit planets and it's stated to encompasses all of existence. Yep so if we are making notes so does this scan mean we downplay the chaos wave? They survived but it overpowered Roma and destroyed the starlight citadel? Just applying your logic

I reevaluated after reading your scan, but all that it stated was that the Citadel could contain planets and that possibilities were collapsing in on themselves. In contrast, we know for a fact that the Chaos Wave was affecting lots of other universes.

 

[Freedomstar]

Tone down the ad hominem virtriole. I just don't agree with you.

I read the scan. See my second sentence about this in the previous post.

Okay. Noted. Based on points 1 and 2, I am fine with "At least Low 2-C, possibly 2-A", given that we know for a fact that he can rewrite a universe, but not in what manner he can affect the lower multiverse.

The Starlight Citadel was not stated to encompass an entire multiverse within this story, and given that The Adversary's focus was the local universe, I find it unreliable to scale from.

No, I just read the linked scans and found these ones in particular to not contain any evidence whatsoever of a multiversal scale.

I reevaluated after reading your scan, but all that it stated was that the Citadel could contain planets and that possibilities were collapsing in on themselves. In contrast, we know for a fact that the Chaos Wave was affecting lots of other universes.

1. How is it a chain reaction? It was stated to be a trans-temporal event that was going to sweep the continuum and bring chaos to all worlds and all-time strings. Even Roma stated the chaos wave was a trans-temporal wave
2. Alright
3. It literally was. The scan comes from Uncanny X-men 225. It states once again an impossible place -- a space that encompasses all existence. This isn't the Starlight Citadel first showing in this story. I don't even know where you're getting off with this. The Starlight Citadel is the nexus to all realities which has always been consistent. Another scan the intersection to all realities. You do know universes are numbered like "616" right because of Merlyn establishing the Captain Britain Corps throughout the multiverse through the Starlight Citadel right?? Before Adversary even debuted... Adversary literally warps it and says "Shocked perhaps, I breached your defenses and made your home my own?" He literally had use for the Starlight Citadel which was in his plain.
4. Now I know a plane of existence that's acting as the borderland between the multiverses and Oblivion is bigger than a universe. I'm sure not even a universe is big enough to separate the two. Not only that several people agreed it was Tier 2. Especially a dimension where half of you stands in the multiverse and the other half in oblivion.
5. So the chaos wave was affecting universes. All the dimensions in existence clashed into one on Roma. So we downplay everyone surviving all the dimensions clashing but overlook everyone also surviving the chaos wave hitting everyone. Now it's very ironic to me.

 

[Antvasima]

1. How is it a chain reaction? It was stated to be a trans-temporal event that was going to sweep the continuum and bring chaos to all worlds and all-time strings. Even Roma stated the chaos wave was a trans-temporal wave

Those are very different storylines that are decades apart. In the Adversary's case we do not know in what manner or at what speed his influence would spread, and timelines constantly interact with and branch off each other.

2. Alright

Thank you.

3. It literally was. The scan comes from Uncanny X-men 225. It states once again an impossible place -- a space that encompasses all existence. This isn't the Starlight Citadel first showing in this story. I don't even know where you're getting off with this. The Starlight Citadel is the nexus to all realities which has always been consistent. Another scan the intersection to all realities. You do know universes are numbered like "616" right because of Merlyn establishing the Captain Britain Corps throughout the multiverse through the Starlight Citadel right?? Before Adversary even debuted... Adversary literally warps it and says "Shocked perhaps, I breached your defenses and made your home my own?" He literally had use for the Starlight Citadel which was in his plain.

A nexus is not the same thing as that all universes actually are inside of it, just that it is connected to/located in the middle of them.

4. Now I know a plane of existence that's acting as the borderland between the multiverses and Oblivion is bigger than a universe. I'm sure not even a universe is big enough to separate the two. Not only that several people agreed it was Tier 2. Especially a dimension where half of you stands in the multiverse and the other half in oblivion.

Being located somewhere is not remotely the same thing as being anywhere near equally large to it. It is an unquantifiable feat. My apologies.

5. So the chaos wave was affecting universes. All the dimensions in existence clashed into one on Roma. So we downplay everyone surviving all the dimensions clashing but overlook everyone also surviving the chaos wave hitting everyone. Now it's very ironic to me.

The Chaos Wave explicitly threatening to destroy all universes is a different thing than that the borders between many universes were disappearing. But I may misunderstand what you are trying to prove here.

 

[Freedomstar]

Thoze are very different storylines that are decades apart. In the Adversary's case we do not know in what manner or at what speed his influence would spread, and timelines constantly interact with and branch off each other.

Thank you.

A nexus is not the same thing as that all universes actually are inside of it, just that it is connected to/located in the middle of them.

Being located somewhere is not remotely the same thing as being anywhere near equally large to it. It is an unquantifiable feat. My apologies.

The Chaos Wave explicitly threatening to destroy all universes is a different thing than that the borders between many universes were disappearing. But I may misunderstand what you are trying to prove here.

1. I was making an example it was stated his chaos would be a trans temporal event that would spread destruction to all worlds and time strings if he wasn’t stopped.
2. Yay
3. It is stated the starlight citadel is an impossible space that encompasses all of existence. Which Adversary was able to affect in the very same issue.
4. So a universe could be the borderland separating the multiverse and oblivion where half of you stand in all of everything and the other half all of nothing? Several have other thoughts about this tier compared to yours. Several said tier 2 and you said something else. I would like to hear other thoughts on this. Because several on the first and second page disagree with you.
5. Chaos wave threaten universes and yet universes clashes together on Roma. You downplayed the showing saying everyone is still alive. I showed you a showing about chaos wave applying your logic where everyone is still alive.

 

[Qawsedf234]

@Zensum @C2_of_Omegon @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Newendigo @Ehnkr2beboh @Tllmbrg @Deagonx @Elizio33 @LordTracer

I would appreciate some help here.

I've already gave my opinion when I read through all of his sources

Something being adjacent to reality or a singular object being connected to all of reality are not 2-A feats. Just an expansive interconnected Low 2-C thing.

But as I also said the other stuff is good for 2-A on it's own without any of that scaling.

Since the OP still hasn't provided a list for some reason I'll the relevant AP sources

• 1 2: These scans come from X-Factor vol 1 #97
• This scan comes from Cable and the X-Force #16
• 1 2: These scans come from Uncanny X-Men vol 1 #225
• This scan and this scan come from Uncanny X-Men vol 1 #227
• 1 2: These scans are from X-Factor vol 1 #121

Anyways after a binge read through mostly mediocre comics I'll just reconfirm what I said before. Most of the OP's claims for 2-A are for universal nexus' rather than outright 2-A feats. However, as I also said, Adversary has legitimate 2-A stuff with the previously mentioned points 1, 4, and 7.

Unrelated but unless the OP is the same person as this CV dude it seems like this was a copy-paste of some other guy's work.

Also I'm banning people if I have to scan hunt to this scale again

If we're giving her a new key it'd just be like

Attack Potency: Multiversal+ (Defeated Adversary, who when used as a power source allowed Haven to create a dimension that was stated to be the Borderland between everything Eternity and Oblivion)

Though I'm not like, super well versed in our Marvel/DC cosmology in relation to tiering so idk if this makes sense Tier wise.

Upon further reading of my previous stuff I wasn't fully for a 2-A rating. He really only had like two things that sorta back that point, the Omni-Verse quote and the edge of existence quote. But the latter isn't 2-A in of itself and the Omniverse quote is the only solid 2-A thing for him.

Feat wise you're not getting anything more than scaling or something a Tier 7 couldn't replicate given the right power set.

Like I get the hesitance in not wanting Tier 2 Storm because of a random minor cosmic entity the X-Men fought a couple times, but that's just how amps sometimes go. Superman has punched out Type 1 Abstracts before and Thor has damaged Tier 2-As randomly at certain points, and unlike her they didn't have an amp at the time.

I'd just say go with 2-B, likely 2-A if you really dislike a 2-A rating that hard. Its for a key that virtually no one scales to.

 

[Antvasima]

1. I was making an example it was stated his chaos would be a trans temporal event that would spread destruction to all worlds and time strings if he wasn’t stopped.

Yes, but the pace and procedure were unspecified. Hence's I think that a "likely 2-A" or "possibly 2-A" seem better, in lack of greater certainty.

3. It is stated the starlight citadel is an impossible space that encompasses all of existence. Which Adversary was able to affect in the very same issue.

If it truly encompassed all of existence, rather than simply being connected to all universes by acting as a nexus, all parallell universes would have been reality-warped to an extreme degree by the event. It doesn't make any sense based on what was actually shown, and seems more like typical flowery Chris Claremont language.

4. So a universe could be the borderland separating the multiverse and oblivion where half of you stand in all of everything and the other half all of nothing? Several have other thoughts about this tier compared to yours. Several said tier 2 and you said something else. I would like to hear other thoughts on this. Because several on the first and second page disagree with you.

I am just saying that the scans that you linked to did not seem to imply a specific scale of any kind, just a rough location. That is all.

5. Chaos wave threaten universes and yet universes clashes together on Roma. You downplayed the showing saying everyone is still alive. I showed you a showing about chaos wave applying your logic where everyone is still alive.

Do you have a scan of Roma withstanding the full force of a multiverse-destroying impact, or just ones where her surroundings were affected by the side-effects of universes partially overlapping with each other?

 

[Antvasima]

Like I get the hesitance in not wanting Tier 2 Storm because of a random minor cosmic entity the X-Men fought a couple times, but that's just how amps sometimes go. Superman has punched out Type 1 Abstracts before and Thor has damaged Tier 2-As randomly at certain points, and unlike her they didn't have an amp at the time.

I do not really care about that. I just think that the Adversary's power displays seem to have been largely imprecise or uncertain.

I'd just say go with 2-B, likely 2-A if you really dislike a 2-A rating that hard. Its for a key that virtually no one scales to.

Please read my responses earlier in this thread, and give me your thoughts regarding my concerns.

 

[Freedomstar]

I do not really care about that. I just think that the Adversary's power displays seem to have been largely imprecise or uncertain.

Please read my responses earlier in this thread, and give me your thoughts regarding my concerns.

I agree with Qawsed statement it seems I am not the only one noticing that along with others in this thread... and I'm also fine with 2-B likely 2-A too. Also, she wasn't "Amped" she unlocked her godhead passed down from her ancestors. Which goes beyond even her mutant powers which are genetic.

How are you uncertain about his power? Throughout numerous threads over the years, you said that Current Adversary was nowhere near his classic power levels.

I single handily debunked your claims. Below

Spoiler: Here

"In Cable and X-Force #16 2013 it was stated that Adversary "had a mad-on for recreating our existence into his own" (This means from the 1980s to 2010s his powers have been written consistently) which means Current Adversary is still at his classic power level... And even the author compared his reality-warping powers to Q from Star-Trek to describe his powers in the same scan.

Even more proof Adversary is still at his classic power level. In the same scan Forge says "Anyhow... My people have battled the Adversary for generations, spent half of my life training for it. A few years back I brought the hammer thought I had him beat"
In this statement, he is talking about his battle against Adversary X-Factor Vol 1 121 (1996) to 2013 17-year gap. The X-Factor storyline shows, Adversary defeats Roma easily and thank her full-power attack. It is stated by Forge it is the same Adversary from their fight. So it would still be Current Adversary > Current Roma, who tanked an attack by Mastermind, who had a sword with the power split the multiverse trying to kill her, tanked the starlight citadel, the chaos wave, all the dimensions in existence clashing together on her.

Haven using his powers in this Storyline created a plane of existence: the borderland separating existence and oblivion while half you stood in the everything and the other half in the nothing.

What makes this scan even more impressive is that the current Adversary in this story was only a fraction of himself. All of Adversary was in the prison dimension after his third attempt to bring chaos to all worlds and all-time strings. The very scan explains that a small piece of Adversary survived in Forge's mind and freed itself. Even stated Or the whole damn world will have to pay the piper if he wasn't stopped since he was obsessed with destroying and recreating existence."

Storm overpowered the ENTIRE Adversary, who was even stronger by the faith from the Wakandans and went by the god name Sefako. As shown even a piece of him is a threat to existence.

 

[Antvasima]

As I have stated previously, the only concrete reliable self-evident scaling feats are Forge talking about that the Adversary will gradually spread his influence across the timelines of the multiverse, and that the Adversary was able to recreate the spacetime of a local universe in his image. Anything else is unquantifiable.

Given that the former was not specified in terms of if it would be a chain reaction effect or done very gradually, I would find it safest to use an "At least Low 2-C, at most 2-A" rating for him and goddess mode Storm. That is all. However, I would appreciate input from other knowledgeable members here.

Also, please drop the accusations and paranoia. They are very misdirected.

 

[Freedomstar]

As I have stated previously, the only concrete reliable self-evident scaling feats are Forge talking about that the Adversary will gradually spread his influence across the timelines of the multiverse, and that the Adversary was able to recreate the spacetime of a local universe in his image. Anything else is unquantifiable.

Given that the former was not specified in terms of if it would be a chain reaction effect or done very gradually, I would find it safest to use an "At least Low 2-C, at most 2-A" rating for him and goddess mode Storm. That is all. However, I would appreciate input from other knowledgeable members here.

Also, please drop the accusations and paranoia. They are very misdirected.

Currently a piece of Adversary = Classic Adversary... Currently an entire Adversary > Classic Adversary. Both are threats to existence but it's shown currently he is without full power. In the 2010s a piece of Adversary was stated multiple times if he wasn't defeated again he would destroy the universe. Storm defeated an entire Adversary amped by Faith.

Also I'm fine with At Least 2-C, At Most 2-A.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. We seem to have reached an agreement then.

Is some experienced member here willing to write an Adversary page with statistics based on him threatening to completely warp the universe in his original X-Men appearance story and Forge's much later speech about the scale of his power please?

 

[Freedomstar]

Also here's another feat
Since Adversary and Roma are Pandimensional and Interdimensional (Adversary was stated to be pandimensional Cable and X-Force/shown in Wolverine there is only one of him- It is actually stated Roma is a gestalt of all of her interdimensional counterparts)

Which should be canon to them

In what if #50 Roma stated Adversary chaos affected her dimension the Realm of Order

It is shown When Adversary was banished he lost control over the Starlight Citadel and her realm which is an omniverse

In the fall of the mutant retold confirmed once again her realm is an omniverse/multiverse which his chaos was also affecting in the scan.

Which is confirmed to be canon by the writer Ed Piskor ( it would still be canon to Roma and Adversary though)

 

[Antvasima]

I don't think that we can scale from non-canon events or inaccurate omniverse statements. Omniverse means all of fiction and reality, not just the Marvel setting alone.

 

[Freedomstar]

I don't think that we can scale from non-canon events or inaccurate omniverse statements. Omniverse means all of fiction and reality, not just the Marvel setting alone.

It would be canon to Roma and Adversary since they are pan dimensional beings. The updated story is canon stated by the writer which Adversary chaos was causing madness in her realm.

Marvels writers have admitted they use multiverse and omniverse as the same.

Roma for example title has been called Omniversal, Multiversal, or Celestial Guardian. For decades now these words have been interchangeable. It also stated her powers = her title and much more when she faced the chaos wave.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that straight 2-A ratings may be acceptable then.

Can you show me the scans that refer to Roma and the Adversary as pandimensional please?

 

[Freedomstar]

Okay. I suppose that straight 2-A ratings may be acceptable then.

Can you show me the scans that refer to Roma and the Adversary as pandimensional please?

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