Invincible CRT: The Omnipotus Conundrum

[TugiaTheNarrator]

I agree with Qawsed here.

At least with whats presented there isnt enough evidence for Omnipotus having a H3A peak.

And removing the two additional keys is fine.

Should we add a "likely higher" or not?

 

[Tahoy49574]

Should we add a "likely higher" or not?

It should be uncontroversial imo

I'll apply this during the day

 

[Godernet]

i personally feel that likely higher is pointless without a rating to place there, but it's probably fine in general.

 

[BattleHawks0670]

Why does this character have a profile ? He's only got 3 appearances (one of those is a cameo), barely has story relevance and most of his profile is handbook statements

1. Upgrade
While his handbook page says that his claim to have laid waste to an entire star system (which by the way, he never states that in his only two appearances up to when the handbook was published) suggests his power can initiate a chain reaction of exponentially increasing destruction, it also says that his destructive and absorptive potential is theoretically infinite and the more energy he absorbs the greater his physical and psionic powers become

There are also other claims of the Invincible universe being infinite, which he was planning to destroy to reshape it

In short, upgrade Omnipotus' peak to "...up to High 3-A" over being able to absorb infinite energy and use it to completely destroy universes and reshape them

• Agree:
• Disagree:
• Neutral:

2. Scaling
The true purpose of this CRT

Omnipotus' base is currently scaling to Low 5-B over being completely unaffected by Tech Jacket's blasts, which could hurt Kregg, who's at least comparable to Nolan and Thaedus

The issue with this is that it can't quite be his base since, due to how his powers work, literally the moment he stepped in the Invincible universe he started absorbing energy, and he keeps getting stronger throughout the fight with his flesh even growing back to show his increase in power

This isn't shortly after his arrival or something like that by the way, but the nth step in a larger plan to stop him. As the dialogue between Robot and Zack implies and the handbook confirms, prior to this they infiltrated the warp vessel to steal the blueprints for the warp key. With a chain of events that would roughly go like Omnipotus arriving and causing havoc, the GDA being notified and assessing the situation, forming a plan with all the heroes, infiltrating the warp ship, stealing the designs for the warp key and then building it...yeah Omnipotus spent quite some time in the Invincible universe

Best we have is this brief cameo in #33, where he's back to being all skull and damaging Post-Thraxa Mark, but with all the light works in the background who's to say it isn't because of the energy he's using

Why does he have two separate keys anyway ? His psionic powers are intrinsically connected to his physical statistics. It should be all one and going with the above it would be: "Varies. At least High 6-B, up to High 3-A"

However, Omnipotus' scaling doesn't end there as he'd comeback way later in the story

Omnipotus returns in Invincible #87 and going by statements he's impossibly stronger than before, paired with the fact he even grew his eyes back to hammer down how powerful he's become

If in less than a day he grew strong enough to be unfazed by Tech Jacket's attacks, with several months of preparation he would be unbelievably above the value Middle of Series/Viltrumite characters characters would scale to, and then Dinosaurus one-shots him, who then gets pummeled by Mark

Like, this is an insane scaling chain we would have to structure plenty of profiles around if we were to go with it. Currently, it'd look something like this:

1.373 zettatons = Tech Jacket << Omnipotus' First Appearance <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Omnipotus' Final Appearance << Dinosaurus < Invincible (Post-Viltrumite War) [New key] = Robot (Titanium Volcanic Armor) = Omni-Man (Post-Viltrumite War) [New key] << Allen the Alien (First Evolution) << Thragg (Pre-Timeskip) = Battle Beast

Personally, I don't think it was intended to be all:

• Mark could already knock out Dinosaurus with one well dealt punch prior to any of his future appearances and it's never portrayed like he got any stronger in-between.
• One could argue Mark himself grows stronger after the Viltrumite War, but it isn't portrayed to such an insane degree either; he could overpower the Invincible reanimen (who should reasonably scale to Low 5-B) and break free from their grip but he couldn't one shot them and it was still portrayed as he'd be overwhelmed in a prolonged fight and lose (and it's not like he has much reason to hold back against reanimated corpses of his evil variants).
• In #108, the encounter with the alternate version of Conquest and his threat hinges entirely on that he is Conquest as we last saw him, except that going with the above he would've been out-scaled hard.
• There's a reason his feat of knocking out Brit happened off-screen, as that completely breaks his whole gimmick of being THE stonewall of the verse, which is the reason Robot can't harm him even with viltrumite-tier weapons and Brit can in fact destroy them with enough force. At least the handbook says he supposedly has Life Absorption, which is the only other time (that I know of, I'll get to reading his stuff soon) Brit was knocked out, and he definitely doesn't need viltrumite-level AP to beat over the rest

Hell, his profile still says:

Of course, this is all assuming Zack didn't get any stronger from that fight til the Viltrumite War, which going by how the Tech Jacket works is possible.

But even then, it's not like he has a "Beginning of Series" key, and the only feat from that time he has is still pending evaluation (also which, no matter how you look at it, is much stronger than the current Viltrum calc), and yet we still wouldn't have any concrete multiplier of how much stronger he would've gotten if we were to go with that. You could dismiss all this as outliers but frankly everything about this character is outlier-ish lol

As I see it, the only ways to go about this are:

A. Dismiss Omnipotus' last appearance as an outlier
The only one who would currently be notably affected by this is Dinosaurus but even then he isn't losing much. There's him drawing blood from Mark, Cecil reaffirming he can hold his own against Invincible, damaging an Invincible Reaniman, Allen's statement that he isn't a lightweight and restraining Oliver.

Going with this options leads to other two:

• A-1. Proposed scaling above: Varies. At least High 6-B, up to High 3-A
  • Qawsedf234, Godernet (Only 3-A)
• A-2. Scale him in a vaccum (if lower ends are deemed too inconsistent): Varies, up to High 3-A

B. Implement the scaling chain anyway
It'd have to go in the "Explations" section of the verse as described above and the mentioned profiles should be worded to address it accordingly

Why does this character have a profile ? He's only got 3 appearances (one of those is a cameo), barely has story relevance and most of his profile is handbook statements

1. Upgrade
While his handbook page says that his claim to have laid waste to an entire star system (which by the way, he never states that in his only two appearances up to when the handbook was published) suggests his power can initiate a chain reaction of exponentially increasing destruction, it also says that his destructive and absorptive potential is theoretically infinite and the more energy he absorbs the greater his physical and psionic powers become

There are also other claims of the Invincible universe being infinite, which he was planning to destroy to reshape it

In short, upgrade Omnipotus' peak to "...up to High 3-A" over being able to absorb infinite energy and use it to completely destroy universes and reshape them

• Agree:
• Disagree:
• Neutral:

2. Scaling
The true purpose of this CRT

Omnipotus' base is currently scaling to Low 5-B over being completely unaffected by Tech Jacket's blasts, which could hurt Kregg, who's at least comparable to Nolan and Thaedus

The issue with this is that it can't quite be his base since, due to how his powers work, literally the moment he stepped in the Invincible universe he started absorbing energy, and he keeps getting stronger throughout the fight with his flesh even growing back to show his increase in power

This isn't shortly after his arrival or something like that by the way, but the nth step in a larger plan to stop him. As the dialogue between Robot and Zack implies and the handbook confirms, prior to this they infiltrated the warp vessel to steal the blueprints for the warp key. With a chain of events that would roughly go like Omnipotus arriving and causing havoc, the GDA being notified and assessing the situation, forming a plan with all the heroes, infiltrating the warp ship, stealing the designs for the warp key and then building it...yeah Omnipotus spent quite some time in the Invincible universe

Best we have is this brief cameo in #33, where he's back to being all skull and damaging Post-Thraxa Mark, but with all the light works in the background who's to say it isn't because of the energy he's using

Why does he have two separate keys anyway ? His psionic powers are intrinsically connected to his physical statistics. It should be all one and going with the above it would be: "Varies. At least High 6-B, up to High 3-A"

However, Omnipotus' scaling doesn't end there as he'd comeback way later in the story

Omnipotus returns in Invincible #87 and going by statements he's impossibly stronger than before, paired with the fact he even grew his eyes back to hammer down how powerful he's become

If in less than a day he grew strong enough to be unfazed by Tech Jacket's attacks, with several months of preparation he would be unbelievably above the value Middle of Series/Viltrumite characters characters would scale to, and then Dinosaurus one-shots him, who then gets pummeled by Mark

Like, this is an insane scaling chain we would have to structure plenty of profiles around if we were to go with it. Currently, it'd look something like this:

1.373 zettatons = Tech Jacket << Omnipotus' First Appearance <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Omnipotus' Final Appearance << Dinosaurus < Invincible (Post-Viltrumite War) [New key] = Robot (Titanium Volcanic Armor) = Omni-Man (Post-Viltrumite War) [New key] << Allen the Alien (First Evolution) << Thragg (Pre-Timeskip) = Battle Beast

Personally, I don't think it was intended to be all:

• Mark could already knock out Dinosaurus with one well dealt punch prior to any of his future appearances and it's never portrayed like he got any stronger in-between.
• One could argue Mark himself grows stronger after the Viltrumite War, but it isn't portrayed to such an insane degree either; he could overpower the Invincible reanimen (who should reasonably scale to Low 5-B) and break free from their grip but he couldn't one shot them and it was still portrayed as he'd be overwhelmed in a prolonged fight and lose (and it's not like he has much reason to hold back against reanimated corpses of his evil variants).
• In #108, the encounter with the alternate version of Conquest and his threat hinges entirely on that he is Conquest as we last saw him, except that going with the above he would've been out-scaled hard.
• There's a reason his feat of knocking out Brit happened off-screen, as that completely breaks his whole gimmick of being THE stonewall of the verse, which is the reason Robot can't harm him even with viltrumite-tier weapons and Brit can in fact destroy them with enough force. At least the handbook says he supposedly has Life Absorption, which is the only other time (that I know of, I'll get to reading his stuff soon) Brit was knocked out, and he definitely doesn't need viltrumite-level AP to beat over the rest

Hell, his profile still says:

Of course, this is all assuming Zack didn't get any stronger from that fight til the Viltrumite War, which going by how the Tech Jacket works is possible.

But even then, it's not like he has a "Beginning of Series" key, and the only feat from that time he has is still pending evaluation (also which, no matter how you look at it, is much stronger than the current Viltrum calc), and yet we still wouldn't have any concrete multiplier of how much stronger he would've gotten if we were to go with that. You could dismiss all this as outliers but frankly everything about this character is outlier-ish lol

As I see it, the only ways to go about this are:

A. Dismiss Omnipotus' last appearance as an outlier
The only one who would currently be notably affected by this is Dinosaurus but even then he isn't losing much. There's him drawing blood from Mark, Cecil reaffirming he can hold his own against Invincible, damaging an Invincible Reaniman, Allen's statement that he isn't a lightweight and restraining Oliver.

Going with this options leads to other two:

• A-1. Proposed scaling above: Varies. At least High 6-B, up to High 3-A
  • Qawsedf234, Godernet (Only 3-A)
• A-2. Scale him in a vaccum (if lower ends are deemed too inconsistent): Varies, up to High 3-A

B. Implement the scaling chain anyway
It'd have to go in the "Explations" section of the verse as described above and the mentioned profiles should be worded to address it accordingly

Hmm thing is when it comes to Post-Thraxa Mark scaling is that well, shouldn’t he just be Low-5B anyways? Like prior to the Viltrumite feat.

Because we have him pretty much holding it down against an elderly Viltrumite.

It’s asserted that the average Viltrumite output is Moon Level on the Viltrum Empire page for VSBW.

And throughout most of the high tier character pages and few of the low tier character pages (strangely enough Tech Jacket as well) it’s a reoccurring thing that just harming viltrumites and Viltrumite level beings just puts you around their level, but I’m not gonna get into allat.

But the point is early mark was seemingly already Low-5B by that time.

 

[Tahoy49574]

i personally feel that likely higher is pointless without a rating to place there, but it's probably fine in general.

It's mostly to point out he doesn't cap at baseline 3-A

 

[Tahoy49574]

Hmm thing is when it comes to Post-Thraxa Mark scaling is that well, shouldn’t he just be Low-5B anyways? Like prior to the Viltrumite feat.

Because we have him pretty much holding it down against an elderly Viltrumite.

It’s asserted that the average Viltrumite output is Moon Level on the Viltrum Empire page for VSBW.

And throughout most of the high tier character pages and few of the low tier character pages (strangely enough Tech Jacket as well) it’s a reoccurring thing that just harming viltrumites and Viltrumite level beings just puts you around their level, but I’m not gonna get into allat.

He deals literal zero damage

All the blood on that guy by the end is mostly Mark's and the injury Nolan made at the start. Lucan, the weakest of the three, who was so weak Omni-Man no-diffed him, was at most momentarily stunned by Mark's attacks. Even Tech Jacket performed significantly better against a much stronger one in the one fight everyone tries to use to downplay him.

Him not dying despite this is more of a plot convenience

 

[BattleHawks0670]

He deals literal zero damage

All the blood on that guy by the end is mostly Mark's and the injury Nolan made at the start. Lucan, the weakest of the three, who was so weak Omni-Man no-diffed him, was at most momentarily stunned by Mark's attacks. Even Tech Jacket performed significantly better against a much stronger one in the one fight everyone tries to use to downplay him.

Him not dying despite this is more of a plot convenience

Eh idk, I took a couple looks at those mini panels of their battle and it seems like mark could still draw blood from him. You can’t really just look at that and say it’s for the plot.

I mean take it as you will, but General Kregg asserts the fact that Mark by all accounts has proven himself a worthy member of their empire.