Mushoku Tensei Discussion Thread

[Digital_Franz]

It mentions that it can be used in both ways, both to enhance an attack and to minimize mana expenditure. The issue is that we cannot assume that he always does the second and never the first. It is safer to assume the lower value.

Well it doesn't matter. Divided by two or not it won't change much.

 

[Zabazab]

I maintain that there's no way to confirm this was actually Advanced-level magic considering Rudeus' silentcasting.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Yeah I'll check.

 

[AlanGoji]

Can someone explain how Eris managed to slice off Orsted's hand, yet the second time she used a FLAWLESS sword of light, Orsted simply grabbed it with his bare hands without a scratch? Some people reason that Orsted holds back, implying he can manipulate his battle aura(I mean u can manipulate battle aura when u reach advance iirc). However, Eris's sword is supposed to nullify battle aura right? I remember that Orsted uses saint battle aura, but I forgot how this works and the difference of it from battle aura or in which volume this technique was explained. Can someone clarify Eris's feat? I’ve seen people downplay Orsted because of this

 

[Zabazab]

Can someone explain how Eris managed to slice off Orsted's hand, yet the second time she used a FLAWLESS sword of light, Orsted simply grabbed it with his bare hands without a scratch? Some people reason that Orsted holds back, implying he can manipulate his battle aura(I mean u can manipulate battle aura when u reach advance iirc). However, Eris's sword is supposed to nullify battle aura right? I remember that Orsted uses saint battle aura, but I forgot how this works and the difference of it from battle aura or in which volume this technique was explained. Can someone clarify Eris's feat? I’ve seen people downplay Orsted because of this

The Phoenix Dragon Sword can neutralize Battle Aura, but Orsted's is only weakened.

The second time, he grabbed it between his palms, without touching the cutting edge.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Here are some feats and info from the first half of volume 15 of Mushoku Tensei:

Chapter 5:

.- Eris are able to elegantly cut the edge of a card in the air
.- Eris and Nina don't know how to read

Chapter 6:

.- Perugius considers that there are three people he should never face: God of Technique, God Dragon and God of Fighting.
.- Eris is more powerful than Rudeus from the future with his armor at the beginning
.- Magic armor has self-recovery

Chapter 7:

.- The armor cannon fires 10 stone cannon per second
.- The armor carries an anti-magic hydra stone on one arm
.- On the other arm, the armor carries a shield along with Paul's short sword
.- Rudeus' armor reaches 200 km/h
.- Zanoba cannot compete against the strength of Rudeus' armor and breaks his hands when hitting it

Chapter 8:

.- Orsted tanks a Rudeus beam at full
.- Rudeus with his Nova gelida spell can completely stop the molecules in the village
.- Rudeus capable of creating a giant ice rock
.- The rock hit the ground in a fraction of a second
.- Two thirds of the rock had been embedded in the earth
.- Orsted breaks the rock
.- Orsted survives Rudeus explosion
.- Rudeus' armor weighs several tons
.- The explosion is the most powerful spell Rudeus has ever done
.- Rudeus with all his spells can slightly hurt Orsted
.- Orsted able to dodge stone cannon shots
.- Rudeus can counteract magical distortion
.- Orsted can counteract magical distortion
.- Rudeus's armor barely able to withstand a blow from Orsted
.- The armor has self-repair and circiles that can heal user even capable of recovering damage from internal organs
.- The physical shock of the armor and Orsted sends Orsted flying
.- Orsted when he draws his sword he blitzes Rudeus
.- Orsted with his sword easily cuts the armor

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Here are some feats and info from the second half of volume 15 of Mushoku Tensei:

Chapter 9:

.- Eris's sword is a magical sword that neutralizes the opponent's battle aura, while Orsted's aura only weakens him.
.- Orsted masters the water style god level
.- At the same level, the water style has an advantage over the sword style
.- Orsted can use the light sword with his hand without needing a sword
.- Eris cuts off Orsted's hand
.- Orsted able to reattach amputated limbs
.- Orsted can recover from all of his injuries without problems
.- Eris can only cut Orsted through his sword and using the sword of light, otherwise, he won't even make a scratch.: Okay. Super inconsistent with all. This here is inconsistent with Rudeus wounding Orsted in volume 6 and with the king level lightning attack.

.- Orsted stops Eris's fastest light sword with his hands

 

[Digital_Franz]

Okay. Super inconsistent with all. This here is inconsistent with Rudeus wounding Orsted in volume 6 and with the king level lightning attack.

Well Orsted's aura is first nullified by Eris's sword and moreover with the context he just seemed to be testing her so I don't really see it as a feat as such.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Well Orsted's aura is first nullified by Eris's sword and moreover with the context he just seemed to be testing her so I don't really see it as a feat as such.

I meant, the inconsistent is that Eris being as strong as she is in this point (king in title but Emperor level) is unable to hurt orsted even with her sword.

 

[Betatester0]

.- Eris can only cut Orsted through his sword and using the sword of light, otherwise, he won't even make a scratch.: Okay. Super inconsistent with all. This here is inconsistent with Rudeus wounding Orsted in volume 6 and with the king level lightning attack.

Why? in volume 6, Orsted didn't expect that kind of power and didn't put everything into defense, Rudeus is also able to increase the power of spells, not to mention that electricity in the MT world seems to be able to bypass touki, and we didn't even see exactly how much damage lightning did

 

[Digital_Franz]

I meant, the inconsistent is that Eris being as strong as she is in this point (king in title but Emperor level) is unable to hurt orsted even with her sword.

Oh I see. Except that even in the God-tier, Fighting God, Demonic Dragon God and Dragon God have their own league.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Why? in volume 6, Orsted didn't expect that kind of power and didn't put everything into defense, Rudeus is also able to increase the power of spells, not to mention that electricity in the MT world seems to be able to bypass touki, and we didn't even see exactly how much damage lightning did

What he means is that Volume 6 Rudeus should be King level and managed to scratch Orsted and without Aqua Heartia while Eris without Sword of Light who is Emperor level cannot do it.

 

[Digital_Franz]

I meant, the inconsistent is that Eris being as strong as she is in this point (king in title but Emperor level) is unable to hurt orsted even with her sword.

This is also why in a discussion with Zab in this thread I said that Orsted's aura should not have been active in Volume 6 when Rudeus managed to scratch him.

 

[Betatester0]

What he means is that Volume 6 Rudeus should be King level and managed to scratch Orsted and without Aqua Heartia while Eris without Sword of Light who is Emperor level cannot do it.

I still don't see any problems. Rudeus was dying and put everything he had into killing Orsted, who clearly could not expect such power and did not put effort into defense, unlike the fight with Eris. and why is Rudeus in vol 6 only king level? he should clearly already be at the imperial level, given the amount of mana and the ability to change the power of spells. Aqua Heartia actually only helps save mana, and Rudeus can boost a spell without it

 

[Digital_Franz]

I still don't see any problems. Rudeus was dying and put everything he had into killing Orsted, who clearly could not expect such power and did not put effort into defense, unlike the fight with Eris. and why is Rudeus in vol 6 only king level? he should clearly already be at the imperial level, given the amount of mana and the ability to change the power of spells. Aqua Heartia actually only helps save mana, and Rudeus can boost a spell without it

The amount of mana does not affect the output. Rudeus is just King at this point. In addition, Aqua Heartia is an amp for his magic but more often he prefers to conserve as much mana as possible (the stone cannon he sent to Badigadi was fully charged and Rudeus explained the conditions somewhat against Orsted).

 

[Betatester0]

The amount of mana does not affect the output. Rudeus is just King at this point. In addition, Aqua Heartia is an amp for his magic but more often he prefers to conserve as much mana as possible (the stone cannon he sent to Badigadi was fully charged and Rudeus explained the conditions somewhat against Orsted).

Did I miss somewhere where it says that Rudeus needs to use a staff? The staff can be used to either gain the same level of power for less mana, or to gain a more powerful spell for the same mana cost. Accordingly, the only thing Rudeus needs to achieve the same level of power as with the staff is to use more mana. as in the case of water magic, to get the same level for the same spell, Rudeus will need to use 5 times more mana and probably more time

 

[Digital_Franz]

Did I miss somewhere where it says that Rudeus needs to use a staff? The staff can be used to either gain the same level of power for less mana, or to gain a more powerful spell for the same mana cost. Accordingly, the only thing Rudeus needs to achieve the same level of power as with the staff is to use more mana. as in the case of water magic, to get the same level for the same spell, Rudeus will need to use 5 times more mana and probably more time

The point is that if silent spell-casting has a limit on its amp then Aqua Heartia will add on its own amp.

 

[Betatester0]

The point is that if silent spell-casting has a limit on its amp then Aqua Heartia will add on its own amp.

Rudeus's gatling contains magical items that make him stone bullets without increasing the power and they are still capable of harming Orsted:

“We pretty quickly found what we were looking for. These were small sticks activated by the word “Fire” that launched attacking spells of the initial level. They were quite popular and widely available as a commodity. However, they were sometimes found among thieves who had no other ranged attacks.

According to Hitogami, if we change this item so that it can withstand the amount of my mana, then I can use it to create my standard stone bullets."

With this in mind, Rudeus can already create stone bullets capable harm Orsted even without a staff. So Rudeus should already be at least at the king level even without Aqua Heartian and given the situation with Eris, we can generally assume that Rudeus was already at the emperor level at that time

 

[Digital_Franz]

Rudeus's gatling contains magical items that make him stone bullets without increasing the power and they are still capable of harming Orsted:

“We pretty quickly found what we were looking for. These were small sticks activated by the word “Fire” that launched attacking spells of the initial level. They were quite popular and widely available as a commodity. However, they were sometimes found among thieves who had no other ranged attacks.

According to Hitogami, if we change this item so that it can withstand the amount of my mana, then I can use it to create my standard stone bullets."

With this in mind, Rudeus can already create stone bullets capable harm Orsted even without a staff. So Rudeus should already be at least at the king level even without Aqua Heartian and given the situation with Eris, we can generally assume that Rudeus was already at the imperial level at that time

That's already in volume 15. Here we were talking about volume 6. And then during the fight the damage caused by his attacks was less compared to what his stone cannon did to Orsted in volume 6. That's roughly of this inconsistency that he wanted to talk about.

 

[Betatester0]

That's already in volume 15. Here we were talking about volume 6. And then during the fight the damage caused by his attacks was less compared to what his stone cannon did to Orsted in volume 6. That's roughly of this inconsistency that he wanted to talk about.

in vol 15, Rudeus's stone bullets either bounced off or scratched Orsted so that he bled, in vol 6, one stone bullet was able to tear off some skin. so although the difference is not too huge, in vol 15 the bullets were more powerful, although we can still simply put Rudeus without a staff at the high king-emperor level and thereby explain why Rudeus’ attack on the unprepared Orsted was able to cause at least minimal damage

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Here are some feats and info from the last part of volume 15 of Mushoku Tensei:

Chapter 12:

.- Rudeus takes 10 days to recover all his lost magical power

Chapter 13:

.- Demon God and Technique God, two halves of the original Dragon God Laplace
.- Aldebaran, god of fighting, fought against the original Laplace and caused the division of his soul
.- Demon Laplace had the magic of original laplace and he hated humans
.- Technical Laplace had lost all the magic but had all the skills

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Well people, I proceed to update the scale with the data from volume 15.

TIER LIST

Orsted FP = Universal/Planet
Orsted = Dragon God
Technique God
Fighting God
Laplace = Demon God
Death God
Gald Farion = Sword God
Kalman II = North God

God Level = Reida

Rudeus Teenager Aqua Hartia Water (x5) > 2,3 TER TNT

Imperial Level = Rudeus Teenager Aqua Hartia Earth & Wind (x3) = Ruijerd = Auber = Eris LN15 = Nina LN 15 = Isolte = Mirai Old Rudeus With Armor > 1,38 TER TNT

Rudeus Teenager Aqua Hartia Fire (x2) > 920 GIG TNT
Hydra
Roxy Staff Water King (x2)

Zanoba = Atofe >= King Level = Isolte = Rudeus Teenager Magic = Badigadi = Almanfi = Ghislaine > 460 GIG TNT

Roxy King > 230 GIG TNT
Roxy Staff Fire King (x0,5) > 115 GIG TNT
Rudeus Aqua Hartia Water (x5) > 115 GIG TNT
Rudeus Aqua Hartia Earth & Wind (x3) > 69 GIG TNT
Fitts Magic (>1/7 Rudeus Teenager Magic) > 65 GIG TNT
Rudeus Aqua Hartia Fire (x2) > 46 GIG TNT
Rudeus Magic
Jinas Halfas Magic = Nina

Paul LN12 >= Saint Level = Gino = Roxy Staff Water (x2) = Gallus Cleaner = Klein Dinoltas = 23 GIG TNT
The calc for the 23 GIG TNT: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kepekley23/Mushoku_Tensei:_Rudeus_makes_a_storm

Eris LN6 = ~20 GIG TNT -> Close to Saint
Roxy Magic = 11,5 GIG TNT
Roxy Staff Fire (x0,5) = 5,75 GIG TNT
Class A Monster
Cliff Magic
Paul
7º Year Student Magic

Gyes >= Advanced Level = Eris = Soldat = Conrad Magic = Silphiette Magic = Strong Bandit = Linia Magic = Pursena Magic = Leno Magic = 5º Year Student Magic

Class B Monster = Elinalise
Class C Monster
Class D Monster
Rudeus Teenager
Luke = Linia = Pursena
3º Year Student Magic
Pope´s Assassin

Intermediate Level = Timothy Magic = Roxy Child Magic = Ginger = Therese = Rudeus LN6 = Regular Swordsman

Rudeus -> Close to Intermediate
Eris Magic

Beginner Level = Elinalise Magic = Ghislaine Magic = Patrice Magic = Aisha Magic

Nokopara
Geese = Mimir = Timothy
Zenith = Lilia = Jinas Halfas
Pax > Fitts = Nanahoshi
Roxy
Class E Monster
Cliff
Kishirika
Ashia = Norn
Silphiette
Roxy Child

No Level

The changes:

.- Incorpore Eris LN15 as Emperor level
.- Incorpore Nina LN15 as Emperor level
.- Incorpore Isolte as Emperor level
.- Incorpore Mirai Old Rudeus With Armor as the same level as Eris LN15

The three are comparable between them and Eris in volumen 13 has alredady the level of Ghislaine. She only need to win against Ghislaine to become emperor, so in title is King but in power is alredady emperor.

The Old Rudeus with his amor version is first weaker than Eris but then he get more magic abilities and Eris become weaker by age.

Doubts:

.- I don't know where the following characters will be: Magic Armor Rudeus and Mirai Old Rudeus

.- I will waiting the aproach we finaly take to add the advanced tier calc

Previous Doubts:

.- I don't know where the following characters will be: Bloody Kant, Blaze, Dale, Leno, Gadalf Rangid, Talhand, Shierria, Vierra, Class S- Monster, Sara, Suzanne, Patrice, Ogre God, Elmore, Kleene, Nights Eyes Crow, Goliade, Conrad, Perugius, Sylvarill and Moore

 

[Zabazab]

The case of Eris being unable to scratch Orsted without the Sword of Light despite being Emperor-class and using a sword that softens Battle Aura (while Rudeus gave Orsted a paper-cut in their first fight), can only be explained as Character-Induced-Stupidity on Orsted's part, with him not pouring as much mana into his Battle Aura as he could in the first encounter.

I will note that, in a Q&A, the author doubted his own idea that Eris was currently Emperor-class due to her and Ghislaine's performance against North Emperor Auber, thinking she's closer to Ghislaine than he thought.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

The case of Eris being unable to scratch Orsted without the Sword of Light despite being Emperor-class and using a sword that softens Battle Aura (while Rudeus gave Orsted a paper-cut in their first fight), can only be explained as Character-Induced-Stupidity on Orsted's part, with him not pouring as much mana into his Battle Aura as he could in the first encounter.

I will note that, in a Q&A, the author doubted his own idea that Eris was currently Emperor-class due to her and Ghislaine's performance against North Emperor Auber, thinking she's closer to Ghislaine than he thought.

Actually I have another idea about Eris, Ghislaine and the emperor level and it is as simple as that between the emperor level and the king level there is little difference.

 

[Zabazab]

Actually I have another idea about Eris, Ghislaine and the emperor level and it is as simple as that between the emperor level and the king level there is little difference.

According to the author, Rudeus only has a single chance to defeat a Sword Emperor even at a distance, but against a Sword King he has a good chance of winning with a distance.

We also see the Emperor-class Stone Cannon one-shot the King-class Badigadi.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

According to the author, Rudeus only has a single chance to defeat a Sword Emperor even at a distance, but against a Sword King he has a good chance of winning with a distance.

We also see the Emperor-class Stone Cannon one-shot the King-class Badigadi.

Yes, as we said in the tier, Rudeus mentions in volume 9 that his common magic is king level and when he charges it against Badigadi he is emperor.

What I mean by little difference is that it will be twice or triple as strong at most.

 

[AlanGoji]

Can someone explain what happened here, what sort of magic did Orsted use in this scene

Orsted’s eyes opened wide in surprise. Was this the first time he’d seen his Disturb
Magic fail to—
Whoa.
The instant my Quagmire turned the ground beneath his feet to muck, Orsted used a
spell of his own to overwrite it. He covered my swamp completely with an earthen
plate.
And now, his right hand was pointing straight at me. I quickly answered with a Disturb
Magic of my own—
Brilliant light blots out the world.
A jolt of fear ran through me. Pausing my Gatling gun barrage for an instant, I leapt too one side with all my might.
I can see the world again.
There was now a deep, sizable crater at the spot where Orsted had been aiming. I
hadn’t even seen the attack itself. Was it some kind of Fire spell? Or maybe something stranger, like Gravity magic?
That light I’d seen just now—was that death?
There was no time to think. Orsted was sprinting at me with one hand outstretched.
Disturb Magic wasn’t going to work; he could counteract it, just like me.

 

[Zabazab]

Can someone explain what happened here, what sort of magic did Orsted use in this scene

Rifujin said this was a heat/light attack; a God-Beam of sorts. It would have instantly vapourized Rudeus and the Magic Armour MKI

 

[AlanGoji]

Rifujin said this was a heat/light attack; a God-Beam of sorts. It would have instantly vapourized Rudeus and the Magic Armour MKI

Is Rudeus aim-dodging this or no

 

[Zabazab]

Is Rudeus aim-dodging this or no

precog dodge

 

[AlanGoji]

So technically, he aim-dodge it

 

[Zabazab]

Every speed thing Rudy does is with precog because he sucks

 

[Digital_Franz]

I will note that, in a Q&A, the author doubted his own idea that Eris was currently Emperor-class due to her and Ghislaine's performance against North Emperor Auber, thinking she's closer to Ghislaine than he thought.

Yeah. I was thinking of giving her an Emperor-tier and a near God-tier with Sword of Light.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

What do you think about the magic armor being 200 km/h in speed?

 

[Digital_Franz]

It's just flight speed.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Here are some feats and info from volume 16 of Mushoku Tensei:

Chapter 1:

.- Orsted can use a hypnosis spell to put his opponents to sleep. He used it against Zanoba.

Chapter 4:

.- Orsted gives a new tunic to Rudeus. This one is magic resistant and stab proof. It also reduces the user's weight in half.

Chapter 7:

.- Eris and Ghislaine able to detect non-visible enemies (they were turning the hallway)
.- The shell of the Chulthu Snail capable of resisting the sword attacks of Ghislaine and Eris if they do not go at full power
.- Rudeus' stone cannon destroys the shell of the Chulthu snails
.- Luke capable of surviving a Limo impact comparable to a cannon shot

Chapter 9:

.- The armor of the fighting god far superior to magical armor
.- The armor of the fighting god continues fighting until its user dies
.- Rudeus wears gloves that give him the strength of Zariff's arm
.- Eris blitzes Rudeus when she uses the ligh sword
.- Eris is able to withstand the electricity spell

I think from this point on with the new tunic, magic armor, zariff gloves, etc. it should be a new Rudeus key. In previous Teenager and this one I would call Young Adult.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

From the WN and adapted according to the LN since Rudeus becomes more powerful after the volume:

Infancy | Juvenile | Youth | Young Man | Post-Series

Infancy = Volume 1-2
Juvenile = Volume 3-6
Youth = Volume 7-13
Young Man = Volume 14-26

Something like: Volumen 1/Volumen 3/Volumen 6/Volumen 9

To be more specific about the separation, guided by what we mentioned previously, I would leave it for now at something like this:

Infancy: Volume 1-2
Juvenile: Volume 3-6
Youth: Volume 7-12
Young Man = Volume 13+
Magic Armor

At this point I don't know if it's worth separating volume 3 specifically just to have the staff that he didn't have until the end of volume 2. Would aqua hartia be taken into account in the infancy volume?

I think youth should end in volume 12, not 13, since volume 13 is when he has already lost his arm and has the prosthesis, learns electricity, etc. The big change is after volume 12.

Also, I think the Magic Armor should have its own key considering it greatly modifies Rudeus' stats and his fighting style.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

I'm not going to update the powerscaling scale yet, I'm going to wait for volume 17. But I think that if we consider Rudeus from volume 13 onwards as another key, some contradictions could be solved by giving him more power than Eris in his regular magic. Since it seems that the author has strongly implied that since volume 15 that Eris could not harm Orsted while Rudeus could and the snail shells.

 

[Digital_Franz]

At this point I don't know if it's worth separating volume 3 specifically just to have the staff that he didn't have until the end of volume 2. Would aqua hartia be taken into account in the infancy volume?

Yes.

I think youth should end in volume 12, not 13, since volume 13 is when he has already lost his arm and has the prosthesis, learns electricity, etc. The big change is after volume 12.

OK.

Also, I think the Magic Armor should have its own key considering it greatly modifies Rudeus' stats and his fighting style.

Nah I don't think. It will just be like:
Speed: ? physically; ? with Magic Armor Mk 2; ? with Magic Armor Mk 0,1
Durability: ? physically; ? with Magic Armor Mk 2; ? with Magic Armor Mk 0,1

 

[Digital_Franz]

I'm not going to update the powerscaling scale yet, I'm going to wait for volume 17. But I think that if we consider Rudeus from volume 13 onwards as another key, some contradictions could be solved by giving him more power than Eris in his regular magic. Since it seems that the author has strongly implied that since volume 15 that Eris could not harm Orsted while Rudeus could and the snail shells.

OK.