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Mushoku Tensei Discussion Thread

Narutouchiha95 said:
Infancy: Volume 1-2
Juvenile: Volume 3-6
Youth: Volume 7-12
Young Man = Volume 13+
Magic Armor
Click to expand...
I'd agree with this, but I'd personally just combine Volumes 1&2 into the Juvenile period, they're only 2 books.

Narutouchiha95 said:
Since it seems that the author has strongly implied that since volume 15 that Eris could not harm Orsted while Rudeus could and the snail shells.
Click to expand...
It seems Eris and Ghislaine are pretty much equals (as of LN Volume 18), it's also stated that Ghislaine and Badigadi are equals.
Q: I thought Eris had Emperor-class power, but looking at her battle with the Northern Emperor, is the Sword God's assessment wrong and in fact she is still at the Sword King level of strength, as her current title suggests?

A: Currently Eris is about on par with Ghislaine, but there isn't that much difference between her and the two Sword Emperors or the Northern Emperor, Auber.

Auber, who overwhelmed her two-on-one, is, as he said, good at many-on-one battles, good at dealing with reckless opponents like Eris and Ghislaine, and thanks to teaching Eris the sword he has seen through her habits.

Battles aren't decided by numbers, so...
Click to expand...
Q: When I hear the word Demon King it sounds like something from a fantasy, but is he actually on the same rank as Ghislaine?

A: In terms of overall fighting power though, they are roughly on the same rank.
Click to expand...
 
Zabazab said:
I'd agree with this, but I'd personally just combine Volumes 1&2 into the Juvenile period, they're only 2 books.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's a bad idea to combine them if in the end aqua hartia is taken into account anyway. The real big difference was that one was close to intermediate level as a swordsman and by volume 6 he already is.
Zabazab said:
It seems Eris and Ghislaine are pretty much equals (as of LN Volume 18), it's also stated that Ghislaine and Badigadi are equals.
Click to expand...
Of ghislaine and Badigadi being comparable, yes. It was clear from the beginning that both of them are the basis for the King level. However, what about Eris creates contradictions for me or what Rifujin himself mentions, there is not really much difference between the emperor and king level.
 
Narutouchiha95 said:
Not really. The real big difference is whether or not Rudeus is intermediate as a swordsman and whether he harm Orsted, which at this point is more of an inconsistency.
Click to expand...
How powerful was the stone cannon that injured Orsted? It wasn't King-tier and Rudeus became Emperor afterwards?
 
Digital_Franz said:
Yes.

OK.

Nah I don't think. It will just be like:
Speed: ? physically; ? with Magic Armor Mk 2; ? with Magic Armor Mk 0,1
Durability: ? physically; ? with Magic Armor Mk 2; ? with Magic Armor Mk 0,1
Click to expand...
Wait, so there's no difference in speed between mk 1 and 0 at all?
 
Here are some feats and info from volume 17 of Mushoku Tensei:

Chapter 1:

.- King level magic can heal lost limbs

Chapter 2:

.- Zariff's gloves are equipped with magic absorption gem
.- Wi Taa is a north king
.- Wi Taa capable of fighting Ghislaine and making her retreat with light tricks
.- Ghislaine faster than Wi Taa

Chapter 7:

.- Once Isolte is knighted she will acquire the title of water emperor

Ok with that confirms she is really emperor level

Chapter 8:

.- The Dragon God Laplace was the most powerful being in the world for years
.- Nucklegard is a north king
.- Nucklegard are actually two people, Nuckle and Gard are actually twin brothers who share the title. Individually they are at the level of a saint

Chapter 10:

.- The first water god mastered 5 super techniques. To be a water god you must master at least 3.
.- Reida masters 3 of the original techniques.
.- There are emperors who have mastered 3 techniques but they all consider themselves inferior to Reida because Reida masters the two more dificults ones and fused them.
.- Reida can instantly cut off anyone who comes within range of her regardless of their position. This range is a entire room.
.- Reida quickly cuts Almanfi as soon as he moves
.- None of those present can move without being cut by Reida, including Eris, Ghislaine, Rudeus, Auber, Perugius, etc.
.- Orsted stops Reida's cuts with his hands
.- Thanks to his training, Rudeus is able to see Auber with his magical eye.
.- Rudeus's Zariff gloves able to stop Auber's cut although he loses a couple of fingers
.- Auber stops Eris ligh sword
.- Auber's weapons are poisoned
.- Auber carries with him an antidote for his poisons

Chapter 12:

.- Orsted has a time reset regardless of when he dies or if 200 years pass. He returns with all the memories of him intact.

Chapter 13:

.- Eris defeats Ghislaine in their last training battle

As we said Eris is already emperor level
 
Well people, I proceed to update the scale with the data from volume 16 and 17.

TIER LIST

Orsted FP = Universal/Planet
Orsted = Dragon God
Fighting God = Dragon God Laplace
Technique God
Mirai Old Rudeus Aqua Hartia Water (x5)
Young Man Rudeus Aqua Hartia Water (x5)
Mirai Old Rudeus Aqua Hartia Earth & Wind (x3)
Young Man Rudeus Aqua Hartia Earth & Wind (x3)
Rudeus Magic Armor MKI
Laplace = Demon God
Death God
Gald Farion = Sword God
Kalman II = North God
Mirai Old Rudeus Magic

God Level = Reida = Young Man Rudeus Magic

Youth Rudeus Aqua Hartia Water (x5) > 2,3 TER TNT

Imperial Level = Youth Rudeus Aqua Hartia Earth & Wind (x3) = Ruijerd = Auber = Eris LN15 = Nina LN 15 = Isolte = Mirai Old Rudeus With Armor > 1,38 TER TNT

Youth Rudeus Aqua Hartia Fire (x2) > 920 GIG TNT
Hydra
Roxy Staff Water King (x2)

Zanoba = Atofe >= King Level = Isolte = Youth Rudeus Magic = Badigadi = Almanfi = Ghislaine = Wii Taa > 460 GIG TNT

Roxy King > 230 GIG TNT
Roxy Staff Fire King (x0,5) > 115 GIG TNT
Juvenile Rudeus Aqua Hartia Water (x5) > 115 GIG TNT
Juvenile Rudeus Aqua Hartia Earth & Wind (x3) > 69 GIG TNT
Fitts Magic (>1/7 Youth Rudeus Magic) > 65 GIG TNT
Juvenile Rudeus Aqua Hartia Fire (x2) > 46 GIG TNT
Juvenile Rudeus Magic
Jinas Halfas Magic = Nina

Paul LN12 >= Saint Level = Gino = Roxy Staff Water (x2) = Gallus Cleaner = Klein Dinoltas = Nuckle = Gard = 23 GIG TNT
The calc for the 23 GIG TNT: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kepekley23/Mushoku_Tensei:_Rudeus_makes_a_storm

Eris LN6 = ~20 GIG TNT -> Close to Saint
Roxy Magic = 11,5 GIG TNT
Roxy Staff Fire (x0,5) = 5,75 GIG TNT
Class A Monster
Cliff Magic
Paul
7º Year Student Magic

Gyes >= Advanced Level = Eris = Soldat = Conrad Magic = Silphiette Magic = Strong Bandit = Linia Magic = Pursena Magic = Leno Magic = 5º Year Student Magic

Class B Monster = Elinalise
Class C Monster
Class D Monster
Young Man Rudeus
Mirai Old Rudeus
Youth Rudeus
Luke = Linia = Pursena
3º Year Student Magic
Pope´s Assassin

Intermediate Level = Timothy Magic = Roxy Child Magic = Ginger = Therese = Juvenile Rudeus = Regular Swordsman

Infancy Rudeus -> Close to Intermediate
Eris Magic

Beginner Level = Elinalise Magic = Ghislaine Magic = Patrice Magic = Aisha Magic

Nokopara
Geese = Mimir = Timothy
Zenith = Lilia = Jinas Halfas
Pax > Fitts = Nanahoshi
Roxy
Class E Monster
Cliff
Kishirika
Ashia = Norn
Silphiette
Roxy Child

No Level

The changes:

.- Incorpore Dragon God Laplace as equal to Fighting God and Technique God behind them
.- Incorpore Wi Taa as King
.- Incorpore Nuckle and Gard as Saint
.- Change Teenager Rudeus for Youth Rudeus to distinguish him more easily
.- Change Rudeus for Infancy Rudeus to distinguish him more easily
.- Change Rudeus LN6 for Juvenile Rudeus to distinguish him more easily
.- Incorpore Rudeus Magic Armor MK1 as weaker than Fighting God but stronger than the rest
.- Incorpore Young Man Rudeus as a new Key. His regular magic is god level (capable to hurt Orsted a little while Reida can´t ) and stronger than regular except to top three (Technique, Fighting and Dragon) with the staff
.- Incorpore Mirai Old Rudeus and his variations with staff as stronger than Young Man Rudeus and his variations with staff.

Doubts:

Previous Doubts:

.- I don't know where the following characters will be: Bloody Kant, Blaze, Dale, Leno, Gadalf Rangid, Talhand, Shierria, Vierra, Class S- Monster, Sara, Suzanne, Patrice, Ogre God, Elmore, Kleene, Nights Eyes Crow, Goliade, Conrad, Sylvarill, Perugius and Moore

.- I will waiting the aproach we finaly take to add the advanced tier calc
 
Last edited:
Here are some feats and info from volume 18 of Mushoku Tensei:

Chapter 0

.- Rudeus reaches the holy level in fire, wind, healing and detoxification magic
.- Rudeus reaches the intermediate level in divine magic

Chapter 1

.- Rudeus with the new armor capable of stopping a 10 meter long lizard with his hand

Chapter 3

.- Elinalise withdrew from university without graduating
.- Norn is in fifth year of university

Chapter 4

.- The MKII has the level of an advanced swordsman
.- The Improved MKII has the level of a saint swordsman and it is the armor that Rudeus now uses
.- Rudeus now uses a weapon capable of firing 10 stone cannons simultaneously
.- King rank or above of the water style capable of defending themselves against Rudeus' new weapon

Chapter 5:

.- Dragon God Urupen is the Dragon God with the smallest mana reserve in history
.- Rudeus' stone cannon capable of damaging Orsted
.- Rudeus' stone cannon at the same level as the light sword.
.- Rudeus able to use Absolute Zero, an emperor level water spell

Chapter 9:

.- Pursena knows advanced healing magic


I will wait to finish volume 19 to update the scale since in this volume only i can put the Magic Armor MKII
 
Last edited:
AlanGoji said:
Why are people saying Rudeus caps at emperor lol
Click to expand...
Two big reasons come to mind
  1. He explicitly says he will never be able to use God-class magic, due to it requiring enormous volumes of mana, extreme control over that mana, and magic circles alongside chants to stabilize the spell.
  2. Every single Great Power is able to deal damage to Orsted.
The latter is particularly damning: Death God Randolph is weaker than Water God Reida, essentially confirming that the reason Orsted didn't take damage from her Sword of Deprivation was because of his own deflection techniques.
 
Zabazab said:
Two big reasons come to mind
  1. He explicitly says he will never be able to use God-class magic, due to it requiring enormous volumes of mana, extreme control over that mana, and magic circles alongside chants to stabilize the spell.
Click to expand...
I always thought that Rudy could in theory learn a God-Class spell, but it would be pointless.
 
Zabazab said:
Two big reasons come to mind
  1. He explicitly says he will never be able to use God-class magic, due to it requiring enormous volumes of mana, extreme control over that mana, and magic circles alongside chants to stabilize the spell.
  2. Every single Great Power is able to deal damage to Orsted.
The latter is particularly damning: Death God Randolph is weaker than Water God Reida, essentially confirming that the reason Orsted didn't take damage from her Sword of Deprivation was because of his own deflection techniques.
Click to expand...
I don't know if I understood you correctly or not, but are you arguing that Rudeus should not have AP God level?

As for Reida...Orsted wasn't even using a technique, unless it was mentioned in the volume, he was simply saying that he deflected cuts with her bare hands.

And it is explicitly mentioned that Rudeus with his magical attacks can hurt Orsted and they already mentioned previously that Eris (emperor) even with the special sword needed the light sword to harm him. And they compares Rudeus' attacks with just that technique.
 
Someone argued with me that MT verse characters, even Orsted and the Fighting God armor have fodder durability. He said that the FGA only tanked the supercontinental explosion because of its ability to nullify magic(ik this exist). He said, "whatever that explosion is, it's magical", hence everyone that can damage that armor physically isn't continental (iirc, DDG Laplace can dismantle that armor with his bare claws right?). Idk how to continue that argument because I think my brain just exploded, and I'm not a native english speaker, so there are some english terms I do not understand and wanted to respond to, so I just ignored him for good..

What do you guys think?
 
AlanGoji said:
Someone argued with me that MT verse characters, even Orsted and the Fighting God armor have fodder durability. He said that the FGA only tanked the supercontinental explosion because of its ability to nullify magic(ik this exist). He said, "whatever that explosion is, it's magical", hence everyone that can damage that armor physically isn't continental (iirc, DDG Laplace can dismantle that armor with his bare claws right?). Idk how to continue that argument because I think my brain just exploded, and I'm not a native english speaker, so there are some english terms I do not understand and wanted to respond to, so I just ignored him for good..

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
That was already mentioned previously and is quickly invalidated since Badigadi is introduced and how the battle aura works.
 
AlanGoji said:
What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
Here's the Battle Aura lore, volume 9

“You get one shot.”

“…”

“Hit me with your very strongest magic. I’ll give you one chance, no more. Use the spell that hurt the Dragon God, perhaps. Should it manage to pierce my Battle Aura and do me harm, then you win. If I am undamaged, then I win. How does that strike you?”
Click to expand...
From what Badigadi told me after the fact, his battle aura couldn’t be penetrated by anything less than King-level spells or sword techniques. Which meant you’d need to be on the level of a Ruijerd or a Ghislaine to even stand a chance against him. Since he relied on this to protect himself in combat, though, he apparently had a hard time beating people above that level.

Anyway… assuming he was telling me the truth, my fully-charged Stone Cannon was now as powerful as a King-tier spell. That was definitely nothing to sneeze at.

Of course, I was also a complete glass cannon. The swordfighters of this world could sheathe themselves in the protective veil of a battle aura without even thinking about it, but no matter how hard I trained, my body never gained that superhuman strength and speed that Eris and Ruijerd tapped into so easily. My muscles did get bigger, but that was about it. All I really had going for me was my attack power. I did supposedly have the mana capacity of a Demon God, for whatever that was worth, and thanks to my Eye of Foresight, I could go toe-to-toe with enemies a bit above my level. But my body itself remained totally ordinary. I’d basically stand no chance against a truly powerful adversary.
Click to expand...
“You have an absurd amount of mana,” Badigadi interrupted. “I don’t understand why you’d train without cloaking yourself in Battle Aura.”

Again with the Battle Aura. I’d heard the words many times before, but everyone was always super vague about how you were supposed to ‘cloak’ yourself in it. This seemed like a golden opportunity. It couldn’t hurt to ask, right? “What exactly is Battle Aura, anyway?”

“It’s mana! Nothing more and nothing less.”

The way Badigadi explained things, it was basically a technique that used the mana in you to dramatically improve your body’s physical capabilities, strengthening yourself to unnatural extremes. That bit was more or less what I’d expected to hear. “How do you actually do that, though?”

“Simply spread a field of mana over every part of your body, then press it tightly against you!”
Click to expand...
Badigadi went on to bluntly explain the reason for my failure. Normally, Battle Aura was something people began to automatically generate after spending some time doing physical training. On the other hand, I’d put in a good amount of effort on that front, but I still couldn’t cloak myself in the aura even when I tried. That meant I just didn’t have the knack for it.

This did happen now and then. Some people could never generate any Battle Aura at all, no matter how intense their training regimen.

“Bwahahaha! Not like you have any need of it, of course! Laplace never cloaked himself in Battle Aura either, but he was truly powerful!”

When he talked about my abilities, Badigadi often used the Demon God Laplace as a point of comparison. I assumed it was because he’d also possessed a massive supply of mana. “Did you actually meet Laplace, Sir Badi?”

“Indeed I did! He annihilated most of my body with a single blow. It took me some time to reform after that! I thought he’d actually killed me for a moment!
Bwahahahaha!”
Click to expand...
Badigadi recently told me that the Stone Cannon I’d fired off at him had actually been on the Emperor level in terms of pure destructive power. Did that mean I could call myself an Emperor-class magician?

When I asked the professor, he said I could call myself anything I wanted.

Sensing a slight edge to that remark, I decided not to do so. It was hard to imagine any good would come from advertising myself as some master mage, anyway.
Click to expand...
 
AlanGoji said:
Is Orsted immune to some sort of soul manipulation
Click to expand...
if the fact that Hitogami can snatch a divine jewel from the dragon god (considering that they must be directly connected to the soul) is considered soul manipulation, then knowing that Orsted has already fought with him once, this is possible
 
AlanGoji said:
The verse has soul splitting and reincarnation and stuff like that. Does Orsted himself have soul manipulation?
Click to expand...
Considering that Orsted already releases a special mana that affects souls (his curse which does not work on Rudeus just like Hitogami’s sweet one due to the fact that his soul is from another world) in theory he may be able to also influence souls like Hitogami + magic capable of killing ghosts (which are souls) + technique of the dragon tribe capable of killing immortal demons (which, logically, are reborn just like Laplace using a soul or a similar method)
 
AlanGoji said:
The verse has soul splitting and reincarnation and stuff like that. Does Orsted himself have soul manipulation?
Click to expand...
He seemingly does not have soul manipulation no, some magic just involves the soul by nature (like reincarnation).
 
Here are some feats and info from volume 19 of Mushoku Tensei:

Chapter 2:

.- Zanoba is naturally weak to fire magic
.- Orsted has an armor that makes you immune to fire when worn it. Rudeus gives this armor to Zanoba
.- Rudeus makes Zanoba a huge, super-strong club
.- Rudeus gives Zanoba a Net that immobilizes his enemy when thrown it
.- Rudeus gives Roxy a ring that automatically deploys barriers against physical attacks and a necklace that absorbs a fatal attack before breaking
.- Rudeus has the MKI, the MKII, and the gatling cannon in his set. Rudeus has the MKII equipped. MKI comes in parts and needs preparation to be used
.- Rudeus at this point does not use Aqua Hartia

Chapter 3

.- Randolph is the death god
.- Randolph is inferior to the gods of the three current styles
.- Rudeus able to give a good match against Randolph
.- Rudeus could attack Pax's palace from 1 km away

Chapter 4

.- Randolph is part human, part elf and part immortal demon

Chapter 6

.- Roxy is not very good with fire spells

Chapter 7

.- Rudeus able to perform 10 saint level spells continuously without problems for his amount of mana

Chapter 9

.- Radolph has the demonic eye of separation

Chapter 10

.- Radolph able to stop a blow from Zanoba's club with his bare hand, however his arm ends up giving way and breaking.
.- Radolph has a magic absorption stone in his glove
.- Radolph cuts Zanoba's armor but Zanoba's body is tougher
.- Pax knows how to use intermediate magic
 
Well people, I proceed to update the scale with the data from volume 18 and 19.

TIER LIST

Orsted FP = Universal/Planet
Orsted = Dragon God
Fighting God = Dragon God Laplace
Laplace = Technique God
Mirai Old Rudeus Aqua Hartia Water (x5)
Young Man Rudeus Aqua Hartia Water (x5)
Mirai Old Rudeus Aqua Hartia Earth & Wind (x3)
Young Man Rudeus Aqua Hartia Earth & Wind (x3)
Rudeus Magic Armor MKI
Laplace = Demon God
Gald Farion = Sword God
Kalman II = North God
Mirai Old Rudeus Magic
Young Man Rudeus Magic
Reida = Water God

God Level = Randolph = Death God

Youth Rudeus Aqua Hartia Water (x5) > 2,3 TER TNT

Imperial Level = Youth Rudeus Aqua Hartia Earth & Wind (x3) = Ruijerd = Auber = Eris LN15 = Nina LN 15 = Isolte = Mirai Old Rudeus With Armor > 1,38 TER TNT

Youth Rudeus Aqua Hartia Fire (x2) > 920 GIG TNT
Hydra
Roxy Staff Water King (x2)

Zanoba = Atofe >= King Level = Isolte = Youth Rudeus Magic = Badigadi = Almanfi = Ghislaine = Wii Taa > 460 GIG TNT

Roxy King > 230 GIG TNT
Roxy Staff Fire King (x0,5) > 115 GIG TNT
Juvenile Rudeus Aqua Hartia Water (x5) > 115 GIG TNT
Juvenile Rudeus Aqua Hartia Earth & Wind (x3) > 69 GIG TNT
Fitts Magic (>1/7 Youth Rudeus Magic) > 65 GIG TNT
Juvenile Rudeus Aqua Hartia Fire (x2) > 46 GIG TNT
Juvenile Rudeus Magic
Jinas Halfas Magic = Nina

Paul LN12 >= Saint Level = Rudeus Magic Armor MKII = Gino = Roxy Staff Water (x2) = Gallus Cleaner = Klein Dinoltas = Nuckle = Gard = 23 GIG TNT
The calc for the 23 GIG TNT: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kepekley23/Mushoku_Tensei:_Rudeus_makes_a_storm

Eris LN6 = ~20 GIG TNT -> Close to Saint
Roxy Magic = 11,5 GIG TNT
Roxy Staff Fire (x0,5) = 5,75 GIG TNT
Class A Monster
Cliff Magic
Paul
7º Year Student Magic

Gyes >= Advanced Level = Eris = Soldat = Conrad Magic = Silphiette Magic = Strong Bandit = Linia Magic = Pursena Magic = Leno Magic = 5º Year Student Magic

Class B Monster = Elinalise
Class C Monster
Class D Monster
Young Man Rudeus
Mirai Old Rudeus
Youth Rudeus
Luke = Linia = Pursena
3º Year Student Magic
Pope´s Assassin

Intermediate Level = Adult Pax Magic = Pax Magic = Timothy Magic = Roxy Child Magic = Ginger = Therese = Juvenile Rudeus = Regular Swordsman

Infancy Rudeus -> Close to Intermediate
Eris Magic

Beginner Level = Elinalise Magic = Ghislaine Magic = Patrice Magic = Aisha Magic

Nokopara
Adult Pax
Geese = Mimir = Timothy
Zenith = Lilia = Jinas Halfas
Pax > Fitts = Nanahoshi
Roxy
Class E Monster
Cliff
Kishirika
Ashia = Norn
Silphiette
Roxy Child

No Level

The changes:

.- Incorpored Rudeus Magic Armor MKII as Saint
.- Incorpored Randolph as the Death God and put him as the base for God Level
.- Change Reida tu put her as the Water God and stronger than Randolph
.- Correct that i put Reida and Young Man Rudeus Magic in the same level when the second is stronger
.- Incorpored Pax Magic as intermediate
.- Incorpored Adult Pax based in his psychical and Adult Pax Magic as intermediate

Doubts:

.- I don't know where the following characters will be: Dragon God Urupen

.- I consider that Zanoba survived an attack from the Death God as inconsistency

Previous Doubts:

.- I don't know where the following characters will be: Bloody Kant, Blaze, Dale, Leno, Gadalf Rangid, Talhand, Shierria, Vierra, Class S- Monster, Sara, Suzanne, Patrice, Ogre God, Elmore, Kleene, Nights Eyes Crow, Goliade, Conrad, Sylvarill, Perugius and Moore

.- I will waiting the aproach we finaly take to add the advanced tier calc
 
Narutouchiha95 said:
.- I don't know where the following characters will be: Dragon God Urupen
Click to expand...
God level. Maybe above Gal.
Narutouchiha95 said:
.- I don't know where the following characters will be: Bloody Kant, Blaze, Dale, Leno, Gadalf Rangid, Talhand, Shierria, Vierra, Class S- Monster, Sara, Suzanne, Patrice, Ogre God, Elmore, Kleene, Nights Eyes Crow, Goliade, Conrad, Sylvarill, Perugius and Moore
Click to expand...
Perugius->God level. At least above the baseline. For me it should be above Gal and below Urupen.
 
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