Mushoku Tensei Discussion Thread

[Narutouchiha95]

an average person can survive 3 days without water and almost a month to 2 months without food, so this isnt a feat for superhuman stamina

Xd this feat make Ghislaine below human in stamina jaja

 

[Narutouchiha95]

didnt he do this by earth manipulation?

The context of the dialogue when he mentions it is that Silphiette asks him how he can make hot water, etc. Rudeus explains that everything can be heated with enough heat. From there it leads to Silphiette asking him if the same thing can be done with a rock and Rudeus affirms that he can and could even "program" the magic so that he does not have to continually supply mana.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

I am now going to do a review of the Roxy's Get Serious manga since it is a prequel and may help a little to establish levels. I put the list of feats below:

To put context Roxy starts learning magic with 14 yearls old in this prequel:

.- Roxy's teacher destroys a rock (Chapter 1)

.- Roxy capable of defeating many coyotes without many problems. Coyote monster is a C monster (Chapter 2)

.- Roxy can make intermediate magic (Chapter 2)

.- Roxy in this point isn´t good to make continusly fire magic (Chapter 4)

At the end of chapter 4 pass 3 years.

I will continue to review the novels in parallel to the review of this manga.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

I continue with the Roxy´s manga:

.- Dale destroys a large portion of a rock (Chapter 5)

Then he dies because a part of the rock hit him xd

 

[Zabazab]

Not having Aura does not mean he is physically weak. If he can already withstand attacks from Perugius, Ruijerd and even the Dragon God Urupen, it is because he has monstrous Durability.

We never see him tank any attack, and we're told he can't use Battle Aura, so there's no reason to believe he has high physical ability.

Demon God Laplace has half the power of Demonic Dragon God Laplace who survived the explosion that created the Ringus Sea and he can fight characters who can withstand his attacks and hurt him in return so his Durability is not underestimated because he has no Aura. Orsted should also use his Aura very rarely because of his Restriction but his Durability is not as underestimated in this case.

Demon-Dragon God Laplace was killed by that explosion that created the Ringus Sea, he did not survive at all.

Orsted is actually always using his Battle Aura, he just uses Saint Dragon Battle Aura which is extremely Mana-efficient and barely uses Mana.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

We never see him tank any attack, and we're told he can't use Battle Aura, so there's no reason to believe he has high physical ability.


Demon-Dragon God Laplace was killed by that explosion that created the Ringus Sea, he did not survive at all.

Orsted is actually always using his Battle Aura, he just uses Saint Dragon Battle Aura which is extremely Mana-efficient and barely uses Mana.

I agree, we can´t give Laplace the feat to survive the attack and less give Ruijerd powercaling to him. In the novel Ruijerd is compared to Ghislaine and if the autor compared to Auber i thinks this is a better option to scale him

 

[Digital_Franz]

.- For now my only doubt is the class A monster falling to Saint Magic of Earth with Aqua Hartia. We cannot guarantee 100% that an attack without a multiplier would defeat it in the same way.

That's the problem but if we consider that an attack without amp can't kill it then that would give Eris too much AP.

.- Ghislaine's comment that she could lose against Rudeus in a confrontation 100 meters away: It seems incoherent to me for the power levels of the series.

The problem is the speed of Rudy's spells and the range. Ghislaine also tends not to underestimate her opponents so let's just note that she does not evaluate Rudy correctly and overestimates him.

 

[Digital_Franz]

We never see him tank any attack, and we're told he can't use Battle Aura, so there's no reason to believe he has high physical ability.

So him being tired, taking Ruijerd's blows isn't mentioned? You should reread the fight. And once again not being able to use aura doesn't mean anything.

Demon-Dragon God Laplace was killed by that explosion that created the Ringus Sea, he did not survive at all.

He survived but his soul was later split.

Orsted is actually always using his Battle Aura, he just uses Saint Dragon Battle Aura which is extremely Mana-efficient and barely uses Mana.

This still remains to be checked.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

I continue with the Roxy´s manga:

.- Gadalf, an adventurer can summon giant "monsters" (Chapter 12)

.- Gadalf has the eye of affection (Chapter 12): i don´t remember this type of magic eye xd

 

[Digital_Franz]

I agree, we can´t give Laplace the feat to survive the attack and less give Ruijerd powercaling to him. In the novel Ruijerd is compared to Ghislaine and if the autor compared to Auber i thinks this is a better option to scale him

He is compared to Demon God Laplace not Demonic Dragon God Laplace. Demonic Dragon God Laplace is considered second strongest after Orsted and is said to have no rival even by Badigadi.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

He is compared to Demon God Laplace not Demonic Dragon God Laplace. Dragonic Demon God Laplace is considered second strongest after Orsted and is said to have no rival even by Badigadi.

Ok, for now I'm going to stay a little away from god levels. I will continue to progress with the scale and based on this and what is discussed the scale can be better established.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Ok, for now I'm going to stay a little away from god levels. I will continue to progress with the scale and based on this and what is discussed the scale can be better established.

OK. It's also true that Ruijerd didn't manage to hurt Laplace unless he hit his weak point so that could be an argument to show both that Laplace has superior Durability and that Ruijerd is not at his level. It should be better like this.

 

[Zabazab]

So him being tired, taking Ruijerd's blows isn't mentioned? You should reread the fight. And once again not being able to use aura doesn't mean anything.

The fight is only briefly described, we don't get to experience it. We are never told that he has excellent physical abilities, only Magic. He is like as stronger Rudeus.

He survived but his soul was later split.

He did not survive, he knew he could not defeat Battle God-controlled Badigadi, so he tried to use his reincarnation technique, but the Battle God interfered with the technique. This caused the technique to backfire and explode, creating the Ringus Sea. This killed Laplace, and the backfired technique split his soul in half. They then reincarnated 500 years ago as Technique God Laplace and Demon God Laplace.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Demon-Dragon God Laplace was killed by that explosion that created the Ringus Sea, he did not survive at all.

At the end of the Second Great Human-Demon War, the blast that occurred when Laplace and I struck one down wiped out the continent, and together with it, multitudes of people, animals, and monsters.

It was following the final blow that the Continent was wiped out, so Laplace and Badigadi were already dead. And then given that the armor survived the attack and that it could damage Laplace and be damaged by the latter then they are of this level.

 

[Digital_Franz]

The fight is only briefly described, we don't get to experience it. We are never told that he has excellent physical abilities, only Magic. He is like as stronger Rudeus.

Yes but I don't think he can do a 1V7 of his level and only get hit by Ruijerd who should be the weakest and slowest and Urupen get killed without giving his opponent a single hit. Urupen was still the one who taught Orsted his current combat skills.

 

[Zabazab]

It was following the final blow that the Continent was wiped out, so Laplace and Badigadi were already dead. And then given that the armor survived the attack and that it could damage Laplace and be damaged by the latter then they are of this level.

Laplace was killed by the explosion and Badigadi was reduced to pieces. Only the Battle God Armour survived.

Yes but I don't think he can do a 1V7 of his level and only get hit by Ruijerd who should be the weakest and slowest and Urupen get killed without giving his opponent a single hit. Urupen was still the one who taught Orsted his current combat skills.

I think nobody managing to land a blow on Laplace would make sense, he could just have powerful barrier magic to defend himself with, and Laplace's magical power is still enough that he takes a good chunk of Orsted's mana to defeat.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Laplace was killed by the explosion and Badigadi was reduced to pieces. Only the Battle God Armour survived.

He did not survive, he knew he could not defeat Battle God-controlled Badigadi, so he tried to use his reincarnation technique, but the Battle God interfered with the technique. This caused the technique to backfire and explode, creating the Ringus Sea. This killed Laplace, and the backfired technique split his soul in half. They then reincarnated 500 years ago as Technique God Laplace and Demon God Laplace.

Here you say everything. Laplace did not die because of the explosion but just because his reincarnation technique was altered. You say Badigadi was blown to pieces so the explosion wasn't strong enough to disintegrate him. I believe there are enough feats in the verse to show that Laplace has this Durability. Just with Orsted who compared Rudeus' mana to that of Laplace (Demonic Dragon God) who should even be superior to him, took one of his attacks and just got scratched. And Demonic Dragon God has been compared to Orsted many times. So if Rudy has an AP equivalent to that which resulted from the Ringus Sea feat then Orsted and Demonic Dragon God Laplace have an equivalent Durability.

I think nobody managing to land a blow on Laplace would make sense, he could just have powerful barrier magic to defend himself with, and Laplace's magical power is still enough that he takes a good chunk of Orsted's mana to defeat.

Demonic Dragon God yes but Demon God no. Orsted was implicitly stated to have killed Technique God Laplace without much difficulty. The same would be true for Demon God Laplace. What doesn't really qualify barrier magic for this fight is that barrier magic doesn't act like aura but rather forms a wall. In a high-speed fight it is almost useless (Rudeus opted for improving his magic armor).

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Continuing with Roxy's manga:

.- To pass the 3rd year at the academy you must know all the intermediate magic (Chapter 43)
.- To advance to the 5th year at the academy you must know at least one advanced category (Chapter 43)
.- To advance to the 7th year of the academy you must learn 2 advanced magic (Chapter 43)

With this we can say that Pursena and Linia know advanced magic? I have never thought about it.

 

[Digital_Franz]

With this we can say that Pursena and Linia know advanced magic? I have never thought about it.

Probably.

I also work on Rudy's Intelligence section. I believe he could get Genius in General and Extraordinary Genius in Combat.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Continuing with Roxy's manga:

.- Roxy with a beginner level spell knocks down an advanced level spell (Chapter 43)
.- Roxy's beginner magic has a power level comparable to an intermediate spell (Chapter 43)
.- The professor with cominulimbus clears the rain in a wide area (Chapter 43)

The latter looks good to calculate for those who understand storms. But I doubt that the result will vary much with respect to those already calculated.

 

[Zabazab]

Roxy with a beginner level spell knocks down an advanced level spell (Chapter 43)
.- Roxy's beginner magic has a power level comparable to an intermediate spell (Chapter 43)

Hmm, this actually suggests NPES beyond just silent casting, although maybe not as extreme as silent casting.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

We continue more with Roxy's manga:

.- Leno is able to cut window glass with his fingernail (Chapter 45)
.- Leno superior to many beast people who come to challenge her (Chapter 45)
.- Roxy creates quite a few pillars of ice in the air (Chapter 47): I think it is a good feat but I don't know the level of the spell, I would say it is advanced. It's Ice Pillar Storm.

 

[Zabazab]

Interesting that Rudeus' Stone Cannon that killed Badigadi, which was declared as an Emperor rank spell, was far stronger than the Stone Cannon which scratched Orsted's fingertip. That, and his Magic amplified 5 times by Aqua Heartia also barely broke the skin of Orsted, while Nuclear Explosion merely gave him 1st degree burns.

Orsted really is a class of his own.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Interesting that Rudeus' Stone Cannon that killed Badigadi, which was declared as an Emperor rank spell, was far stronger than the Stone Cannon which scratched Orsted's fingertip. That, and his Magic amplified 5 times by Aqua Heartia also barely broke the skin of Orsted, while Nuclear Explosion merely gave him 1st degree burns.

Orsted really is a class of his own.

This is why everything about Rudy is difficult to scale. Currently he can one shot the majority of the verse. It’s just a speed issue.

 

[Digital_Franz]

.- Roxy creates quite a few pillars of ice in the air (Chapter 47): I think it is a good feat but I don't know the level of the spell, I would say it is advanced. It's Ice Pillar Storm.

I'm going to try to make a compilation of the calcs of the manga's feats. Find everything you can and when I have time I'll get to it.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Here is a blog I did regarding the LN. Hoping it gets evaluated.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Here is a blog I did regarding the LN. Hoping it gets evaluated.

@Zabazab a thought?

 

[Narutouchiha95]

We continue with Roxy's manga:

.- Roxy creates an ice pillar of considerable size (Chapter 48)
.- Roxy creates an ice wall of considerable size (Chapter 48)
.- Roxy cannot do communilulimbus without the staff (Chapter 49)
.- Roxy's staff data (50):

Water x2
Less than x2 with the other elements and the fire element decreases power

 

[Narutouchiha95]

We continue now with the end of Roxy's manga:

.- Roxy defeats Lena and her followers in combat (Chapter 51). When they met the first time Lena defeated her so quickly that she didn't have time to conjure anything.

Manga Finished.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

I'm going to try to make a compilation of the calcs of the manga's feats. Find everything you can and when I have time I'll get to it.

Ok i will put here all feats i believe can be calculated in the Roxy manga:

.- Roxy's teacher destroys a rock (Chapter 1)

.- Dale destroys a large portion of a rock (Chapter 5)

.- The professor with cominulimbus clears the rain in a wide area (Chapter 43)

.- Leno is able to cut window glass with his fingernail (Chapter 45)

.- Roxy creates quite a few pillars of ice in the air (Chapter 47): I think it is a good feat but I don't know the level of the spell, I would say it is advanced. It's Ice Pillar Storm.

.- Roxy creates an ice pillar of considerable size (Chapter 48)

.- Roxy creates an ice wall of considerable size (Chapter 49): Sorry i put chapter 48 in the previous post

I believe this are all the feats you can get something

 

[Zabazab]

@Zabazab a thought?

Where did you get the diametre of the Ringus Sea from?

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Actualizo el powerscaling anterior con el manga de Roxy:

Dios > Imperial > Ruijerd > Almanfi = Ghislaine = Roxy Staff Agua LN2 (x2) = Rey > Rudeus Aqua Hartia Agua (x5) > Rudeus Aqua Hartia Tierra y Viento (x3) > Rudeus Aqua Hartia Fuego (x2) > Rudeus Magia > Jinas Halfas Magic > Roxy Staff Water = Klein Dinoltas = Saint > Monstruo Clase A > Paul > Silphiette Magic = Eris = Bandido fuerte = Avanzado > Monstruo Clase B > Monstruo Clase C > Monstruo Clase D > Luke > Roxy Child Magic = Espadachín regular = Intermedio >= Rudeus > Eris Magic > Ghislaine Magic = Principiante > Nokopara > Zenith = Lilia = Jinas Halfas > Roxy > Silphiette > Roxy Child

Los cambios:

.- Incorporar a Roxy infantil
.- Incorporar multiplicaciones de personal de Roxy

Coeficiente de amplificación mágica de Roxy´s Staff:

• Magia de agua: 2 veces
• Magia de Fuego: menos de 1 veces

Dudas:

.- No se como comparar Roxy Magic sin bastón con Rudeus con bastón

.- No sé dónde estarán los siguientes personajes: Bloody Kant, Blaze, Dale, Leno y Gadalf Rangid.


¿Me falta algo?

 

[Zabazab]

Magic amplification coefficient of Aqua Hartia:

• Water Magic: 2 times
• Fire Magic: below 1 times

This is for Roxy's staff, not Aqua Heartia. Aqua Heartia is a 2x boost to fire, 3x boost to earth/wind, 5x boost to water.

Roxy's staff is a 2x boost to water, 0.5x effect to fire.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Esto es para el personal de Roxy, no para Aqua Heartia. Aqua Heartia aumenta 2x el fuego, 3x la tierra/viento y 5x el agua.

El bastón de Roxy aumenta 2 veces el agua y 0,5 veces el efecto del fuego.

Sorry i will modify it.
The 0,5 effect to fire is said?

 

[Zabazab]

- Roxy's staff data (50):

Water x2
Less than x2 with the other elements and the fire element decreases power

Third and fourth panel's dialogue;
"What do you think?"
"The increase in water magic is almost twofold. Other elements see a marginal increase. Opposing elements like fire are halved.
"Halved is pretty bad. I'd rather avoid that kind of fluctuation entirely."

 

[Zabazab]

No se como comparar Roxy Magic sin bastón con Rudeus con bastón

Roxy without her staff is 1/2 the power of her cumulonimbus.
Rudeus's cumulonimbus is greater than Roxy's, who used her staff.
Aqua Heartia then multiplies Rudeus' magic.

So Roxy < Roxy with her staff (2x) < Rudeus < Rudeus with Aqua Heartia (Up to 5x)

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Roxy without her staff is 1/2 the power of her cumulonimbus.
Rudeus's cumulonimbus is greater than Roxy's, who used her staff.
Aqua Heartia then multiplies Rudeus' magic.

So Roxy < Roxy with her staff (2x) < Rudeus < Rudeus with Aqua Heartia (Up to 5x)

Ok. I am with you when Roxy was Saint level, but now is king. So i don´t know how compare them

 

[Zabazab]

Ok. I am with you when Roxy was Saint level, but now is king. So i don´t know how compare them

Assuming that even with Aqua Heartia, 10 year old Rudeus was still Saint level, it would be:
Roxy < Roxy with her staff (2x) < Rudeus < Rudeus with Aqua Heartia (Up to 5x) < Roxy (King rank) < Roxy (King rank) with her staff (2x)

Of course, there is the possibility that Rudeus' power is pushed past Saint level by Aqua Heartia too.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Assuming that even with Aqua Heartia, 10 year old Rudeus was still Saint level, it would be:
Roxy < Roxy with her staff (2x) < Rudeus < Rudeus with Aqua Heartia (Up to 5x) < Roxy (King rank) < Roxy (King rank) with her staff (2x)

Of course, there is the possibility that Rudeus' power is pushed past Saint level by Aqua Heartia too.

But there is a problem, it is established that Roxy cannot do cumunilunimbus without her staff, so without it she would not be a saint level. It makes me think the same thing happens with his current king rank. If we said he can without the staff we get something like this:

Roxy with her staff fire magic (0.5x) < Roxy < Saint < Roxy with her staff water (2x) < Rudeus < Rudeus with Aqua Heartia Fire (2x) < Rudeus with Aqua Heartia Earth&Wind (3x) < Rudeus with Aqua Heartia Water (5x) < Roxy King with her staff fire magic (0.5x) < Roxy king < King < Roxy king with her staff water (2x)

 

[Zabazab]

But there is a problem, it is established that Roxy cannot do cumunilunimbus without her staff, so without it she would not be a saint level. It makes me think the same thing happens with his current king rank.

She has only cast Lightning with her staff, so I imagine that'd be the case. Essentially— Saint Roxy is 1/2 Saint level without her staff, and 1/4 Saint level with her staff & fire. King Roxy is 1/2 King level without her staff, and 1/4 King level with her staff & fire.