Mushoku Tensei Discussion Thread

[Narutouchiha95]

Is it really Intermidiate rank swordsmen that can run at 50km/h? I assumed it referred to Paul who is Advanced rank. Remember; Rudy isn't a superhuman due to having no Battle Aura.

That's my main problem, that Rudeus has no reference other than Paul when he mentions this. But it also doesn't make sense in the context in which he says it and with the world when the majority of swordsmen are not Paul level. Unless we say this:

Paul Casual = 50 km/h > Intermediate. Rudeus was able to give him a bit of a battle with magic support when he was a beginner level. Which doesn't quite fit me.

Humans from one universe to another can vary in power level. Saying that he doesn't have Touki and that's why he can't be as strong doesn't seem like an argument to detract from feats.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Rudy isn't a superhuman due to having no Battle Aura.

And he can also have massive speed feats. Being small, he already has Superhuman speed feats for being comparable to Eris. Additionally he was also able to keep up with Auber during their fight without the magic armor.

 

[Digital_Franz]

That's my main problem, that Rudeus has no reference other than Paul when he mentions this. But it also doesn't make sense in the context in which he says it and with the world when the majority of swordsmen are not Paul level. Unless we say this:

Paul Casual = 50 km/h > Intermediate. Rudeus was able to give him a bit of a battle with magic support when he was a beginner level. Which doesn't quite fit me.

It must be said that he was not serious. As soon as he got serious, he beat him very quickly.

Humans from one universe to another can vary in power level. Saying that he doesn't have Touki and that's why he can't be as strong doesn't seem like an argument to detract from feats.

I agree on this point. He generally compares himself to Zanoba (who is a blessed child) and Eris. He's still superior to Luke in a sword fight, which should give him good AP, speed, and durability.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

It must be said that he was not serious. As soon as he got serious, he beat him very quickly.

I agree on this point. He generally compares himself to Zanoba (who is a blessed child) and Eris. He's still superior to Luke in a sword fight, which should give him good AP, speed, and durability.

I mean it doesn't suit me that casual Paul is 50 km/h and is much superior to the intermediates and at the same time beginner Rudeus can keep up with him a little. So Intermediate Rudeus should receive powerscaling anyway.

 

[Digital_Franz]

I mean it doesn't suit me that casual Paul is 50 km/h and is much superior to the intermediates and at the same time beginner Rudeus can keep up with him a little. So Intermediate Rudeus should receive powerscaling anyway.

I see the point. Instead of basing him on Paul, with whom we don't know to what extent he holds back, it would perhaps be preferable to base him on Eris.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Hello again, here are some feats and info from the first half of volume 2 of Mushoku Tensei:

Chapter 1:

.- Aldea Buena and Roa are six/seven hours away by carriage.
.- Eris punches him 5 times before Rudeus can cast any spell

Episode 2:

.- Healing can restore bones: It seems a little incoherent to me with what is established previously and later.
.- Increasing the mana on healing spells does not improve them.
.- Rudeus' fireworks can blind you and the heat they emit burns the skin
.- One of the bandits is able to cut the rock
.- Ghislaine cuts down the bandits faster than Rudeus can see

Chapter 3

.- Ghislaine can last 3 days without eating or drinking at most.
.- Eris slightly superior to Rudeus as a swordsman
.- Rudeus is distracted by fear when he is seriously attacked

 

[Digital_Franz]

.- Aldea Buena and Roa are six/seven hours away by carriage.

Travel conditions are not given and positions in Fitoa are not given.

.- Ghislaine cuts down the bandits faster than Rudeus can see

She should have Relativistic+ combat and reaction speed

.- Ghislaine can last 3 days without eating or drinking at most.

Superhuman Stamina

.- Rudeus is distracted by fear when he is seriously attacked

Weakness

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Travel conditions are not given and positions in Fitoa are not given.

She should have Relativistic+ combat and reaction speed

Superhuman Stamina

Weakness

.- Yeah, its to get a minimum distance. But i don´t believe its good to scale anything
.- In this point there aren´t anything of this level xd
.- Ok
.- Yes

 

[Digital_Franz]

.- In this point there aren´t anything of this level xd

Just the fact that she can currently fight characters at this speed so the feat there doesn't add anything notable.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Just the fact that she can currently fight characters at this speed so the feat there doesn't add anything notable.

Yes, but I prefer to have little by little how the feats appear, even if they are minor.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Yes, but I prefer to have little by little how the feats appear, even if they are minor.

I see.

 

[Zabazab]

I vividly remember it being stated that in order to reach Advanced rank, it's necessary to be able to use Battle Aura, and so Rudeus is stuck at Intermidiate.

 

[Digital_Franz]

I vividly remember it being stated that in order to reach Advanced rank, it's necessary to be able to use Battle Aura, and so Rudeus is stuck at Intermidiate.

Yes. He also has the same problem with magic. He has not evolved in other magics because the spells above are just on a larger scale which no longer helps him since he already has greater power.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

I vividly remember it being stated that in order to reach Advanced rank, it's necessary to be able to use Battle Aura, and so Rudeus is stuck at Intermidiate.

Yes, but the point is that not having touki =/= being a real human from our world. That's what I was referring to.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Yes, but the point is that not having touki =/= being a real human from our world. That's what I was referring to.

He said that because that's what Rudeus usually says yet he is physically strong without Aura.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Hello again, here are some feats and info from the second half of volume 2 of Mushoku Tensei:

Chapter 5:

.- Eris is an intermediate level before turning 10: Rudeus literally says that with that he can compete with an average swordsman.
.- Eris controls the basic level of all elements except earth.
.- Ghislaine only controls the basic level of fire.

Chapter 6:

.- Rudeus learns 3 languages in 2 years
.- Ghislaine the fourth most powerful swordswoman in her style
.- One of the bandits was an advanced level swordsman and Ghislaine says that Rudeus fought at his level
.- Ghislaine mentions that if she fought at 100 meters against Rudeus she might lose
.- Ghislaine learns basic knowledge of mathematics, etc.: Primary school level knowledge
.- Ghislaine knows basic water magic
.- Ghislaine and Eris do not know how to use intermediate magic
.- Ghislaine mentions that with proper training and teachers Rudeus has the capacity to reach the imperial level as a swordsman
.- Eris close to advanced level

Chapter 7:

.- Rudeus close to the intermediate level
.- Eris is an advanced level and Rudeus is no longer a rival for her

Chapter 8:

.- Roxy has learned to limit her enchantments
.- Asura is ten times bigger than Shirone
.- Orsted destroys various red dragons
.- Aqua Hartia enhances water magic x5: If there are feats without the staff, we can apply the multiplier.
.- Ghislaine's technique is said to reach the speed of light. This technique makes the style stand out above the other two.
.- Almanfi can move at the speed of light
.- The mana disaster disappears Fitoa

Extra Chapter:

.- Ghislaine defeats a water saint without much problem

In the next one, volume 3, but another day xd

 

[Digital_Franz]

.- Aqua Hartia enhances water magic x5: If there are feats without the staff, we can apply the multiplier.

Done on my sandbox.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Done on my sandbox.

I think that later the multiplier of each attribute was said, with that you can easily get the maximum of Rudeus with Aqua Hartia and the base of Rudeus, either by multiplying or dividing the feats according to the multiplier.

 

[Digital_Franz]

I think that later the multiplier of each attribute was said, with that you can easily get the maximum of Rudeus with Aqua Hartia and the base of Rudeus, either by multiplying or dividing the feats according to the multiplier.

I just used the maximum since even if it's just for the water element Rudeus can reach this maximum for the other elements by adding more mana.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

I just used the maximum since even if it's just for the water element Rudeus can reach this maximum for the other elements by adding more mana.

But no matter how much mana Rudeus puts in, Aqua Heartia is always going to be a multiplier. That is, if Rudeus uses 100 power or 10, with Aqua Hartia it would be 500 and 50 respectively, in the case of the water element.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

For now until volume 2 I think I can do the following powerscaling:

God > Imperial > Ghislaine = Roxy Magic LN2 = King > Rudeus Magic > Roxy Magic = Klein Dinoltas = Saint > Paul > Silphiette Magic = Eris = Strong Bandit = Advanced > Regular Swordman = Intermediate >= Rudeus > Eris Magic > Ghislaine Magic = Beginner > Zenith = Lilia > Roxy > Silphiette

I don´t know by now how strong Zenith is with magic

 

[Digital_Franz]

But no matter how much mana Rudeus puts in, Aqua Heartia is always going to be a multiplier. That is, if Rudeus uses 100 power or 10, with Aqua Hartia it would be 500 and 50 respectively, in the case of the water element.

Yes

 

[Digital_Franz]

For now until volume 2 I think I can do the following powerscaling:

God > Imperial > Ghislaine = Roxy Magic LN2 = King > Rudeus Magic > Roxy Magic = Klein Dinoltas = Saint > Paul > Silphiette Magic = Eris = Strong Bandit = Advanced > Regular Swordman = Intermediate >= Rudeus > Eris Magic > Ghislaine Magic = Beginner > Zenith = Lilia > Roxy > Silphiette

I don´t know by now how strong Zenith is with magic

I don't really know what to think. For Roxy it would take a few feats to put her on Ghislaine's level. It should be noted that swordsmen certainly have a lower DC than magic users but they have an equivalent or higher AP, adding to their speed they are far superior.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Realmente no sé qué pensar. A Roxy se necesitarían algunas hazañas para ponerla al nivel de Ghislaine. Cabe señalar que los espadachines ciertamente tienen una CD más baja que los usuarios de magia, pero tienen un AP equivalente o mayor, lo que suma a su velocidad que son muy superiores.

En realidad, será al revés: Ghislaine recibirá un aumento de poder del cuminolimbus de Roxy. Bueno, en realidad, el de Ludeus. Por ahora todos aprovechan esa hazaña. Powerscaling is for AP/Durability only.

 

[Digital_Franz]

En realidad, será al revés: Ghislaine recibirá un aumento de poder del cuminolimbus de Roxy. Bueno, en realidad, el de Ludeus. Por ahora todos aprovechan esa hazaña. Powerscaling is for AP/Durability only.

Oh I see. It looks interesting.

 

[Zabazab]

Magic and Swordsmanship are ranked with the same named system (Beginner, Intermidiate, Advanced, Saint, King, Emperor, God), but the AP, speed, etc. vary wildly. A single Saint ranked Mage could kill 10,000 Emperor ranked swordsmen with one spell.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Magic and Swordsmanship are ranked with the same named system (Beginner, Intermidiate, Advanced, Saint, King, Emperor, God), but the AP, speed, etc. vary wildly. A single Saint ranked Mage could kill 10,000 Emperor ranked swordsmen with one spell.

I believe we will need to discuss about the verse scaling. I think that the great powers should basically scale to the Calamity of Mana.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Creo que tendremos que discutir sobre la escala del verso. Creo que las grandes potencias básicamente deberían escalar hasta la Calamidad de Mana.

La magia y el manejo de la espada se clasifican con el mismo sistema de nombres (Principiante, Intermedio, Avanzado, Santo, Rey, Emperador, Dios), pero el AP, la velocidad, etc. varían enormemente. Un solo mago clasificado como Santo podría matar a 10.000 espadachines clasificados como Emperador con un solo hechizo.

I don't think that is accurate, later Badygadi establishes that to damage him a king level spell is needed due to his Touki and Badigadi for the same reason is king level. If we establish that magic follows a different scale, it can be argued that a beginner level spell can kill an emperor with touki because they follow different scales.

 

[Digital_Franz]

I don't think that is accurate, later Badygadi establishes that to damage him a king level spell is needed due to his Touki and Badigadi for the same reason is king level. If we establish that magic follows a different scale, it can be argued that a beginner level spell can kill an emperor with touki because they follow different scales.

This is also true. But this needs to be discussed. We will have to see how to manage everything without creating contradictions.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

This is also true. But this needs to be discussed. We will have to see how to manage everything without creating contradictions.

I firmly believe that establishing separate scales will generate more contradictions. What's more, Badigadi already sets a precedent for at least the king levels, so Ghislaine also scales well above the Cuminulimbus unless we say that Ghislaine can't hurt Badigadi, which I hope no one defends.

 

[Zabazab]

I don't think that is accurate, later Badygadi establishes that to damage him a king level spell is needed due to his Touki and Badigadi for the same reason is king level. If we establish that magic follows a different scale, it can be argued that a beginner level spell can kill an emperor with touki because they follow different scales.

The ranking system isn't actually that concrete, Paul has power on the level of a Saint ranked swordsman despite never having achieved the rank of Saint in any style.

The conditions for Sword-God Style swordsmanship are a good example of what I mean;
To become an Advanced rank Sword-God style swordsman, you must use Battle Aura. To become a Sword Saint, you must use the Sword of Light (Eris was granted the title despite lacking the Sword of Light, due to her excelling in all other aspects). To become a Sword King, you are simply granted the title by the Sword God, and the same is true of a Sword Emperor. Becoming the Sword God only requires one to be the strongest of the Sword-God style.

It isn't just power, for the warriors. There are many factors. It's a difference from Magic which has spells with a predetermined output. Rudeus had Emperor-level output at maximum, but Gal Farion would die instantly if he was hit with Stone Cannon.

 

[Digital_Franz]

I firmly believe that establishing separate scales will generate more contradictions. What's more, Badigadi already sets a precedent for at least the king levels, so Ghislaine also scales well above the Cuminulimbus unless we say that Ghislaine can't hurt Badigadi, which I hope no one defends.

Well, let's not rush. There is still time and we will have to work hard on the multipliers. Let's keep your idea and we'll see what happens until the end of the LN.

 

[Digital_Franz]

The ranking system isn't actually that concrete, Paul has power on the level of a Saint ranked swordsman despite never having achieved the rank of Saint in any style.

Same problem with Eris and maybe Badigadi.

The conditions for Sword-God Style swordsmanship are a good example of what I mean;
To become an Advanced rank Sword-God style swordsman, you must use Battle Aura. To become a Sword Saint, you must use the Sword of Light (Eris was granted the title despite lacking the Sword of Light, due to her excelling in all other aspects). To become a Sword King, you are simply granted the title by the Sword God, and the same is true of a Sword Emperor. Becoming the Sword God only requires one to be the strongest of the Sword-God style.

Generating Durability issues.

It isn't just power, for the warriors. There are many factors. It's a difference from Magic which has spells with a predetermined output. Rudeus had Emperor-level output at maximum, but Gal Farion would die instantly if he was hit with Stone Cannon.

He decided not to do anything with the title otherwise he is God-level.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Same problem with Eris and maybe Badigadi.

Generating Durability issues.

He decided not to do anything with the title otherwise he is God-level.

Well, let's not rush. There is still time and we will have to work hard on the multipliers. Let's keep your idea and we'll see what happens until the end of the LN.

The ranking system isn't actually that concrete, Paul has power on the level of a Saint ranked swordsman despite never having achieved the rank of Saint in any style.

The conditions for Sword-God Style swordsmanship are a good example of what I mean;
To become an Advanced rank Sword-God style swordsman, you must use Battle Aura. To become a Sword Saint, you must use the Sword of Light (Eris was granted the title despite lacking the Sword of Light, due to her excelling in all other aspects). To become a Sword King, you are simply granted the title by the Sword God, and the same is true of a Sword Emperor. Becoming the Sword God only requires one to be the strongest of the Sword-God style.

It isn't just power, for the warriors. There are many factors. It's a difference from Magic which has spells with a predetermined output. Rudeus had Emperor-level output at maximum, but Gal Farion would die instantly if he was hit with Stone Cannon.

I am going to continue with this scale for the moment as I review, if I find any contradictions throughout the volumes I will comment on them. The truth is, the titles are established minimums, cases like Eris or Paul do not contradict the scale. And Rudeus is God-Level like @Digital_Franz says or Orsted is no God-Level durability. But i am not in this volumes yet xd

 

[Digital_Franz]

I am going to continue with this scale for the moment as I review, if I find any contradictions throughout the volumes I will comment on them. The truth is, the titles are established minimums, cases like Eris or Paul do not contradict the scale. And Rudeus is God-Level like @Digital_Franz says or Orsted is no God-Level durability. But i am not in this volumes yet xd

Well, continue to do the powerscaling for each volume and then at the end we will come out with the one that will be used.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Well, continue to do the powerscaling for each volume and then at the end we will come out with the one that will be used.

Ok. For now, are there any feats in the first two volumes that I've missed? Today I will try to comment on the feat references of this volume according to the manga/anime and if I have time start with novel 3.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Ok, let's go with some feats and in case any good user knows how to calculate them:

Silphiette creates a huge pillar of ice (Anime episode 3 minute 12:40). In the manga (chapter 4) she comes out creating two pillars the size of her. Unfortunately, the anime does not show its size to be able to make a reliable calculation.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

In the manga, chapter 6, there is a good feat of speed for Paul where he overtakes the monstrous boar that is about to catch Rudeus. I think that the distance from Rudeus to where the monsters were initially could be taken as the distance traveled by Paul since Rudeus did not move from his place.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

I send the entire battle with the bandits, I think the most notable thing is right at the beginning where Rudeus creates a huge wall.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

In the manga, chapter 13, Roxy creates a huge stone to cross a giant tiger.