Mushoku Tensei Discussion Thread

[Narutouchiha95]

She has only cast Lightning with her staff, so I imagine that'd be the case. Essentially— Saint Roxy is 1/2 Saint level without her staff, and 1/4 Saint level with her staff & fire. King Roxy is 1/2 King level without her staff, and 1/4 King level with her staff & fire.

The interesting thing now is to see when Rudeus is compared to being a king level or failing that, how much difference there is between a king spell and a holy one.

For now I will update with what I can and what we have talked about

 

[Phoenks]

Do y'all have a Rudeus sandbox?

 

[Narutouchiha95]

I update the previous powerscaling with Roxy's manga:

God > Imperial > Ruijerd > Almanfi = Ghislaine = Roxy Staff Water King (x2) = King > Roxy King > Roxy Staff Fire King (x0,5) > Rudeus Aqua Hartia Water (x5) > Rudeus Aqua Hartia Earth & Wind (x3) > Rudeus Aqua Hartia Fire (x2) > Rudeus Magic > Jinas Halfas Magic > Roxy Staff Water (x2) = Klein Dinoltas = Saint > Roxy Magic > Roxy Staff Fire (x0,5) > Class A Monster > Paul > 7º Year Student Magic > 5º Year Student Magic = Silphiette Magic = Eris = Strong Bandit = Advanced > Class B Monster > Class C Monster > Class D Monster > Luke > 3º Year Student Magic > Roxy Child Magic = Regular Swordsman = Intermediate >= Rudeus > Eris Magic > Ghislaine Magic = Beginner > Nokopara > Zenith = Lilia = Jinas Halfas > Roxy > Silphiette > Roxy Child

The changes:

.- Incorporate child Roxy
.- Incorporate multiplications of Roxy staff

Roxy's Staff Magic Amplification Coefficient:

Water magic: 2 times
Fire Magic: less than 1 times

Modifications:

.- Roxy's fire multiplier with staff is corrected, which is x0.5.

.- I put in black the powerscaling that is not so clear as there is no good evidence and that may vary in the future

.- I incorporate the magic of the academy students

.- I don't know where the following characters will be: Bloody Kant, Blaze, Dale, Leno and Gadalf Rangid.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Where did you get the diametre of the Ringus Sea from?

As you can see I measured using ellipses

 

[Digital_Franz]

Roxy without her staff is 1/2 the power of her cumulonimbus.
Rudeus's cumulonimbus is greater than Roxy's, who used her staff.
Aqua Heartia then multiplies Rudeus' magic.

So Roxy < Roxy with her staff (2x) < Rudeus < Rudeus with Aqua Heartia (Up to 5x)

Very consistent

 

[Zabazab]

As you can see I measured using ellipses

I mean, what did you scale the sizes from? How do you know the diametre of the sea?

 

[Digital_Franz]

Do y'all have a Rudeus sandbox?

Yes. Look at the first page of this thread and you will see the link

 

[Digital_Franz]

I mean, what did you scale the sizes from? How do you know the diametre of the sea?

For Pixel Scaling there is the blog that I linked at the beginning. I based it on Rudeus' journey out of the forest to scale. It was the only perfectly described journey of the LN

 

[Digital_Franz]

I crouched reflexively. Something whooshed by, slicing through the air at top speed right where my head had been. A chill ran down my spine.

“Hm.” Ghislaine’s brows knitted. She must have missed her target. Her opponent dodged that deathblow of an attack that was too fast to be seen with the naked eye

The moment after Ghislaine shouted, his face gleamed. It was a brilliant light so bright it blinded us all for a moment. I immediately shut my eyes. “Gaah!”
I heard Ghislaine howl. Then a clang as metal clashed against metal. Then the sound of rapid movement.

So that was how she did it. The moment that light took our vision, she pulled her eyepatch aside so she could see with her other eye.

I believe this is enough for Ghislaine to have speed of light combat, reaction and perception speed. Arumanfi can fight without materializing and Ghislaine can perceive his movement (with her demon eye).

 

[Zabazab]

I believe this is enough for Ghislaine to have speed of light combat, reaction and perception speed. Arumanfi can fight without materializing and Ghislaine can perceive his movement (with her demon eye).

Definitely not. She can only reach the dpeed of light by using the Sword of Light. Reacting to Almanfi's movement speed only requires relativistic speed, and Almanfi still must materialize to attack.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Definitely not. She can only reach the dpeed of light by using the Sword of Light.

Nobody said that. Attack speed yes but nothing says her combat speed can be higher.

Reacting to Almanfi's movement speed only requires relativistic speed, and Almanfi still must materialize to attack.

No. Reacting to The Sword of Light only requires Relativistic+ speed, but fighting an opponent who moves at the speed of light requires the same speed. Following your reasoning we would say that to have the speed of light combat and reaction spedd you would have to react to an FTL character. Which is not correct.

 

[Zabazab]

Nobody said that. Attack speed yes but nothing says her combat speed can be higher.

Why, pray tell, would anyone use a technique that isn't any better than normally swinging their sword? Speed of Light is the cap, because the Sword of Light is the fastest technique.

No. Reacting to The Sword of Light only requires Relativistic+ speed, but fighting an opponent who moves at the speed of light requires the same speed. Following your reasoning we would say that to have the speed of light combat and reaction spedd you would have to react to an FTL character. Which is not correct.

Almanfi cannot fight at the speed of light. Ghislaine can just react to his light-speed movement.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Why, pray tell, would anyone use a technique that isn't any better than normally swinging their sword? Speed of Light is the cap, because the Sword of Light is the fastest technique.

Normal swinging her sword is not combat speed but attack speed and It's possible and not at all inconsistent. By using an attack at the speed of light and depending on the distance it would allow you to overcome the opponent's reaction. The simple example is what often happens in fiction with a character who triggers a lightnig fast attack and his opponent reacts to it. Their combat speed will obviously be higher than that of lightning but that does not prevent them from using the attack. Placed at the right time it would perhaps give assured victory.

Almanfi cannot fight at the speed of light. Ghislaine can just react to his light-speed movement.

Speed of light reaction speed->speed of light combat speed.

 

[Zabazab]

Normal swinging her sword is not combat speed but attack speed and It's possible and not at all inconsistent.

No, normally swinging her sword is combat speed, that's the speed she can fight at. The Sword of Light is uniquely fast.

Speed of light reaction speed->speed of light combat speed.

She doesn't have speed of light reaction speed, she has relativistic(+) reaction speed. Reacting to light isn't a feat of speed of light reaction speed.

 

[Digital_Franz]

No, normally swinging her sword is combat speed, that's the speed she can fight at. The Sword of Light is uniquely fast.

No. I'm going to take the example of Gal Farion to contradict you. During his fight against Eris when she performed the Sword of Light he launched himself towards her and landed an attack at the speed of sound at max and almost killed Eris if Ruijerd had not protected her. Why did he bother attacking at the speed of sound when he can fight at Relativistic+ speed?

She doesn't have speed of light reaction speed, she has relativistic(+) reaction speed. Reacting to light isn't a feat of speed of light reaction speed.

Almanfi cannot fight at the speed of light. Ghislaine can just react to his light-speed movement.

Here you are who contradicts yourself. React to Light Speed is a Speed of Light reaction speed feat.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Why, pray tell, would anyone use a technique that isn't any better than normally swinging their sword? Speed of Light is the cap, because the Sword of Light is the fastest technique.

Just look at Kizaru from One Piece. FTL+ combat and reaction speed with Speed of Light attack speed. Why does he use his light speed attacks with his legs if he can already fight at much higher speed?

 

[Zabazab]

No. I'm going to take the example of Gal Farion to contradict you. During his fight against Eris when she performed the Sword of Light he launched himself towards her and landed an attack at the speed of sound at max and almost killed Eris if Ruijerd had not protected her. Why did he bother attacking at the speed of sound when he can fight at Relativistic+ speed?

Send the scan.

Here you are who contradicts yourself. React to Light Speed is a Speed of Light reaction speed feat.

I didn't contradict myself at all. Reacting to light is not a speed of light feat. It can be any speed depending on the distance. Given the distance, it's relativistic(+) at peak.

Just look at Kizaru from One Piece. FTL+ combat and reaction speed with Speed of Light attack speed. Why does he use his light speed attacks with his legs if he can already fight at much higher speed?

I don't care about other verses. Sword of Light is the speed of light, Sword of Light is the fastest technique, speed of light is the fastest speed in the verse.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Send the scan.

He struck back. Perhaps it was the price he paid for using the teachings of another, unfamiliar style, but his strike could hardly be called fast. It didn’t reach the speed of light—speed of sound at best. At that distance, at that range, you didn’t need Sword of Light to kill your opponent. Any strike to cut off their head would do.
The blade came down like a guillotine. There was a sharp noise, like a clang or a cling, as metal met metal. His sword stopped. It was digging into Eris’s neck, but it had halted.

I didn't contradict myself at all. Reacting to light is not a speed of light feat. It can be any speed depending on the distance. Given the distance, it's relativistic(+) at peak.

True, but she manages to follow him even when he is dematerialized.

I don't care about other verses.

I'm just showing you a very logical example.

Sword of Light is the speed of light, Sword of Light is the fastest technique

I agree.

speed of light is the fastest speed in the verse.

I do not agree. It was never said. It was just said that the Sword of Light is the fastest technique in the verse.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Hello again, here are some feats and info from the first part of volume 4 of Mushoku Tensei:

Chapter 2:

.- Rudeus's mana reserve surpassed Laplace
.- Explanation of demonic eyes and the different types
.- The existence of the Sword of Light as a very fast technique is emphasized
.- Rudeus can now see the future

Chapter 3:

.- Rudeus with the eye surpasses Eris in sword combat but still below Ruijerd: That makes me wonder if Rudeus scales in AP/Durability above Eris at this point or at least be comparable.

Roxy Side Story

.- Elinalise can cut three meters away with her magic weapon
.- Elinalise's shield is a magical object that mitigates any attack received
.- Talhand very slow compared to Roxy
.- Roxy partially destroys the inn with an ice shot

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Hello again, here are some feats and info from the second part of volume 4 of Mushoku Tensei:

Chapter 6:

.- The roar of the beast people paralyzes, leaving you immobilized
.- Ruijerd complains that Rudeus lets his guard down too much
.- Ruijerd affirms that he is mentally weak: Referring to staying calm, not being provoked, etc.

Chapter 7:

.- Rudeus says that even if he runs at full speed in a straight line it would take him six hours to go to the city

Chapter 8:

.- It is implied that Rudeus makes it rain throughout the forest to make sure he puts out the fire
.- Gallus far superior to all beast warriors
.- Gallus is a saint-level swordsman
.- Ruijerd superior to Gallus
.- Rudeus able to keep up thanks to the magic eye against Gallus
.- Gallus faster than Eris
.- Gallus capable of intercepting Rudeus' magical attacks
.- Rudeus' explosion KOs Gallus

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Hello again, here are some feats and info from the third part of volume 4 of Mushoku Tensei:

Chapter 9:

.- Rudeus cannot use the Doldia howl like them. He can only make them shudder for a second

Chapter 10:

.- Legend of Saint Milis cutting down the forest to create the road. The story is considered true since there is still a trace of mana from the attack.
.- The 7 great powers are explained and they are implied to be in order of power
.- Rudeus is an intermediate level swordsman

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Now the feats for the manga/anime of volumen 4:

.- Rudeus make rain in the forest (Chapter 32)

.- In the manga Rudeus creates a barrier to protect himself against Gallus (Chapter 32)

.- Rudeus and Eris fight in the anime



.- Rudeus and Gallus fight



.- Eris and Minitona training

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/mushokutensei/images/7/78/MT-AN-S1-E15-GIF-01.gif/revision/latest?cb=20211027000802

.- Eris fights against Gyes in a duel. Gyes is a little stronger

 

[Zabazab]

That quote of it being the speed of sound would mean that the Author believes that the characters are transonic unless using the Sword of Light.

True, but she manages to follow him even when he is dematerialized.

Which does not require Speed of Light reactions or combat speed.

I agree.

I do not agree. It was never said. It was just said that the Sword of Light is the fastest technique in the verse.

Sword of Light and the speed of light are the same speed.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

True, but she manages to follow him even when he is dematerialized.

I dont need to be supersonic to dodge a supersonic attack from kilometers away, According to your logic Tennis players are trans sonic, and military pilots are supersonic to hypersonic

I'm just showing you a very logical example.

it isnt very logical

I agree.

I do not agree. It was never said. It was just said that the Sword of Light is the fastest technique in the verse.

So you agree that SoL is the verse speed cap then?

 

[Digital_Franz]

That quote of it being the speed of sound would mean that the Author believes that the characters are transonic unless using the Sword of Light.

No way. It was a well-placed counter attack used with the Water God style while Eris performed the Sword of Light.

Which does not require Speed of Light reactions or combat speed.

During combat what requires this speed.

Sword of Light and the speed of light are the same speed.

It's the same speed and it's the cap for attack speed but not combat.

 

[Digital_Franz]

I dont need to be supersonic to dodge a supersonic attack from kilometers away, According to your logic Tennis players are trans sonic, and military pilots are supersonic to hypersonic

It's during the fight not miles away.

it isnt very logical

Very logical. Do you want me to take Asta's example? Just because he has MFTL combat speed doesn't mean his attack speed is comparable. He's way below.

So you agree that SoL is the verse speed cap then?

No. This may be the cap for attack speed but not for combat speed. Being there the fastest technique=/=cap of the combat speed of the verse

 

[Digital_Franz]

.- Rudeus with the eye surpasses Eris in sword combat but still below Ruijerd: That makes me wonder if Rudeus scales in AP/Durability above Eris at this point or at least be comparable.

I don't think he's comparable to her in terms of AP/Durability.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

I don't think he's comparable to her in terms of AP/Durability.

But then this creates an inconsistency, you should not be able to beat her in a sword competition or reduce her even if you can react to her if you are not at that level os AP

 

[Digital_Franz]

Now the feats for the manga/anime of volumen 4:

.- Rudeus make rain in the forest (Chapter 32)

.- In the manga Rudeus creates a barrier to protect himself against Gallus (Chapter 32)

.- Rudeus and Eris fight in the anime



.- Rudeus and Gallus fight



.- Eris and Minitona training

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/mushokutensei/images/7/78/MT-AN-S1-E15-GIF-01.gif/revision/latest?cb=20211027000802

.- Eris fights against Gyes in a duel. Gyes is a little stronger

The manga seems very different from the LN and the anime. Rudeus should not yet have mastered any barrier spells.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

The manga seems very different from the LN and the anime. Rudeus should not yet have mastered any barrier spells.

The vol 3 to 6 are the worst that manga had adapted, change a lot of things

 

[Digital_Franz]

But then this creates an inconsistency, you should not be able to beat her in a sword competition or reduce her even if you can react to her if you are not at that level os AP

Not necessarily. The problem is that he didn't land any blows on her and she didn't land any blows on him. Here they rather seem to be comparable in LS.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Not necessarily. The problem is that he didn't land any blows on her and she didn't land any blows on him. Here they rather seem to be comparable in LS.

Do you have the complete fight description? to see the opinion of others, since at least according to the translation that I have and the manga/anime adaptations it is implied that they are comparable in everything except for Rudeus' advantage of the eye, since he competes with her physically as well .

 

[Digital_Franz]

The vol 3 to 6 are the worst that manga had adapted, change a lot of things

The manga will not be used in this case

 

[Digital_Franz]

Do you have the complete fight description? to see the opinion of others, since at least according to the translation that I have and the manga/anime adaptations it is implied that they are comparable in everything except for Rudeus' advantage of the eye, since he competes with her physically as well .

Anime. Advantage only in the case of its perception but not in AP/Durability.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

The manga will not be used in this case

I will post the feats that I find interesting even so, but I will specify if they are invented by the manga or not.

Anime. Advantage only in the case of its perception but not in AP/Durability.

In the novel there is no physical contest beyond Rudeus taking Eris's sword with a blow to the hand?

 

[Digital_Franz]

In the novel there is no physical contest beyond Rudeus taking Eris's sword with a blow to the hand?

I'll look. I finished Volume 2 yesterday. I've been pretty busy lately. The fact is that if we base it on the anime then Eris is physically superior to Rudeus and can withstand an attack from the red cobra. In the LN I don't know if Eris has such a Durability feat but I still think that the anime handled the problem of inconsistencies and should be used in this case.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

I'll look. I finished Volume 2 yesterday. I've been pretty busy lately. The fact is that if we base it on the anime then Eris is physically superior to Rudeus and can withstand an attack from the red cobra. In the LN I don't know if Eris has such a Durability feat but I still think that the anime handled the problem of inconsistencies and should be used in this case.

Yes, but in the anime the scene you say of Eris surviving the cobra's blow or cutting it is not in the novels. And later in the anime Rudeus in this fight we talked about grabs Eris and puts her on the ground and he is able to hold her from behind.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Yes, but in the anime the scene you say of Eris surviving the cobra's blow or cutting it is not in the novels.

Yes, that's why I say that it must be used above the LN because it gives a Durability feat.

And later in the anime Rudeus in this fight we talked about grabs Eris and puts her on the ground and he is able to hold her from behind.

It's a feat of strength not AP.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Yes, that's why I say that it must be used above the LN because it gives a Durability feat.

It's a feat of strength not AP.

It seems a little incoherent to me to have more power because it is a character based on physical feats and at the same time not be comparable to someone who is comparable to you in physical strength.

 

[Digital_Franz]

It seems a little incoherent to me to have more power because it is a character based on physical feats and at the same time not be comparable to someone who is comparable to you in physical strength.

It's not incoherent. Strength is not AP/Durability. A character can match another on this point but not in AP/Durability.