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Tiny bit. But I'll wait and see what other staff members have to say.So you leaning towards agree now?
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Tiny bit. But I'll wait and see what other staff members have to say.So you leaning towards agree now?
Future can have many meanings depending on context. In DB, “future” is not really a future, it’s an entirely different timeline containing 12-18 space-time continuums. In some verses, future is only the future of one universe.
Yhwach isn't manipulating possibilities. He's manipulating the actual futures he sees before his eyes and manipulates them to his ends. His ability straight doesn't work as described if the futures are simply "Possibilities."
Dude not every ******* fate hax allows you manipulate INFINITE FUTURES all at once, this is a terrible argument and isn't analogous to anything being proposed in the OP.Disagree. It's just how fate hax works. By that logic every fate hax would be 4D
We literally give tiers to hax feats all the freakin' time. Nothing new. Just ask Arale.Disagree. It's just how fate hax works. By that logic every fate hax would be 4D
Okie dokie. I was just arguing that future in this context refers to actualitiesFuture can have many meanings depending on context. In DB, “future” is not really a future, it’s an entirely different timeline containing 12-18 space-time continuums. In some verses, future is only the future of one universe.
Btw, put me in agreeing but just “ At least 2B, possibly 2A” for the hax.
We do it with BlazBlue, we do it with Nasuverse, we do it with Guilty Gear, we do it with Devil May Cry, we do it with Instant Death, we do it with Dungeons and Dragons, we do it with Warhammer, we do it with Destiny. (this list goes on and on)We literally give tiers to hax feats all the freakin' time. Nothing new. Just ask Arale.
Arale is different. Her Low 1C is based on controlling a 5D force.We literally give tiers to hax feats all the freakin' time. Nothing new. Just ask Arale.
Dawg .Arale is different. Her Low 1C is based on controlling a 5D force.
Yhwach is manipulating an Infinite amount of futures with his Almighty.Arale is different. Her Low 1C is based on controlling a 5D force.
With 2-A fate manipulation, we don't see Yhwach affect all of these future's at the same time. And while his statement is an open one, where him saying he can only interfere in the futures he sees, I do think that's not enough on its own to let him have 2-A fate manipulation, especially since we're never shown any of these futures besides when Yhwach brings them into the present or when he breaks Ichigo's bankai in the future, all of which seem to be singular futures in their given moments. To best exemplify what I think, where Yhwach can see and differentiate every grain of sand we're only ever shown him picking one at time when he chooses a future to effect.
ここから先の未来全てで折られたものを“拒絶”で消す事はできねという事か
- "You’re saying your “rejection” can’t erase something broken in every future from this point." ~ Rukia Chapter 681
He literally did given the statements made by Yhwach himself and Orihime/Rukia, just because we aren't given some sort of physical description of the feat (which is quite literally never shown within any manga, so idk why you expect Bleach to do it) doesn't mean these feats didn't happen nor does it disprove that Yhwach can do these feats given these direct statements from the manga. (which aren't contradicted i might add)私はこの眼に映る未来の全てに干渉できるだけの事だ
- "I am only able to intervene in every future reflected in these eyes." ~ Yhwach Chapter 679
We're directly told by Yhwach himself that Aizen's Kyoka Suigetsu is messing with his perception of the future, with his capabilities of future being able to view an infinite amount of futures.With Aizen's KS, my issue here is that this seems more like a matter of power interaction than one of full potency. As we know, KS allows Aizen to manipulate the senses of his opponents after they'd bore witness to his blade. What you've done is taken his ability and assumed I think the logical extreme that he's creating infinite number of illusions to fool Yhwach. I believe a more conservative estimate is in order in lieu of further evidence. And that estimate is that Aizen doesn't need to create infinite illusions if he just effects Yhwach's mind, cause Yhwach only has one mind in which all of this information is gathered. While Yhwach does have more than two eyes, as we're shown in several shots, I don't think we're lead to believe he has an infinite number and as far as we understand eyes they're all connected to his mind. Since KS is hypnosis, he just has to convince Yhwach's mind that Aizen is Renji, Renji is Aizen, and that Aizen is also Ichigo. Like a filter on his mind, that then extends to his sight which does the rest of the work for Aizen.
Not necessarily, like at all, Aizen could've placed an illusion on Yhwach that would affected his future perception abilities in general, this wouldn't require him to see an infinite amount of futures to affect Yhwach's Almighty perception, he would only need to be able to create an illusion which can affect Yhwach's ability to see infinite amounts of futures, which he did and this is directly stated to us by Yhwach that Aizen did that exact thing.I also think this estimation makes more sense, since what you're proposing comes with the implication that Aizen is somehow also able to see these same futures that Yhwach does since he's recreating the same illusion in all of them, and we just have nothing in the series that support Aizen having awareness of that level or the ability to see through his opponents own eyes.
Via hax. Plot Manip is hax.Arale is different. Her Low 1C is based on controlling a 5D force.
Btw SK created the realms. All timelines exist inside the realm doesn't that mean PSK should be 2A?Via hax. Plot Manip is hax.
Nah. He doesn’t scale to all the futures that get created since he is only creating the original world that the other branch off of. It’s like how cutting through a tree trunk (creating the OG world) =/= destroying the entire trunk, branches and leaves (various timelines/possibilities spawned by that world)Btw SK created the realms. All timelines exist inside the realm doesn't that mean PSK should be 2A?
I think the issue here is that you didnt take into account how Yhwach see the futures.So yeah, I'm cool with 2-A precog, everything else not so much. Though, with Bleach a lot of the time when we're dealing with the god tiers it feels like a lot of difference ends up in the interpretation of what's happening so I'm only giving me own.
No, that's not how this analogy works.It’s like how cutting through a tree trunk (creating the OG world) =/= destroying the entire trunk, branches and leaves (various timelines/possibilities spawned by that world)
Uncountable does not mean infinite, uncountable is often used to refer to something very large in a finite number. you need to find something that says it's infinite futures
Furthermore, CFYOW goes out of its way to confirm there are indeed infinite future timelines.
Thanks to Reio35 for finding the scan, but CFYOW confirms there are infinite possible futures. So, it should just be 2-A hax.
So if he actually can create infinite futures his AP would scale to it right?No, that's not how this analogy works.
Using the tree analogy assumes that there is a bigger realm that supports the existence of these other realms (Like Yggdrasil in both Marvel and God of War supporting the existence of the realms yet being unaffected by whatever the **** happens to them), which isn't the case here.
Ok. Thanks for clarifying.Soul King only created the OG world, the other branching timelines have nothing to do with him.
Only if he created those infinite timelines quickly and didn't make a timeline one by one, which doesn't seem to be the case, as those futures popped up without his influence.So if he actually can create infinite futures his AP would scale to it right?
You might wanna check that "infinite" scan that pops up right after.Uncountable does not mean infinite, uncountable is often used to refer to something very large in a finite number. you need to find something that says it's infinite futures
He did@Arc7Kuroi can u add the infinite scan from CFYOW to the OP?
Furthermore, CFYOW goes out of its way to confirm there are indeed infinite future timelines.
True, I was confused because people are still bringing up "countless doesn't mean infinite"He did