Mugen souls question

[Jesterofgames]

Mugen souls question I have 2 questions

1 where the Megan souls profiles defeated and remade

my Second and most important question and the reason Why i put this in content revision And Not q&a bored is Why don't special moves count. The note says a bunch of stuff for this However I have counters "' There are a few characters in the game with special attack animations portraying power superior to Planet level. However, these shouldn't be considered valid feats, as not only are the animations very likely just meant to display cool visuals (since the collateral damage is not permanent and can even fail to affect characters inside the small battlefield despite destroying the entire planet or galaxy)"

Ok then I guess we should Downgrade a majority of RPG verses since everything said Here fits a good Number of ROG verses. So persona 5 downgraded Since its Galaxy level as well despite the fact that It fits the same Qualities as this verse. I.E. Yaldaboths best fear is planet level in cutscene but it has moved that put it far over planet level Also disgaea since it Also suffers the same problem as this verse heck people in disgaea 4 somehow couldn't muster the power to stop the moon. And are constantly in awe of people who can destroy netherworlds


"they don't fit the level of power displayed by the strongest characters in the story itself."

You mean Volgis eating a planet correct. Where is that stated to Be his Maximum power. Where's that stated to be him at his strongest. Where is it stated him eating a planet is his limit.

And Also Again this fits a good number of RPG verses Cutscene feats being less impressive then move feats.

"Additionally, the party characters with these animations are, like most of the party, both intimidated by the final boss eating a planet"

You mean sandy and Chou Chou Correct. Um here's that scene https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL28_eRFIuaoJ0bA6HLd7fTSCSFiT9XR5h&v=8ztEAzvVLes


See 14:30 for the start of it Sandy just goes "He ate the Entire world that can't be." which Could also be interpreted as just disbelief considering he just ended thousands of lives. It could also be the fact that He Ate the world instead of destroying it. I mean I can break A spoon But somebody eating a spoon in front of me would put me in a state of disbelief.

And Chou Chou seems Ticked off he ate her property more than intimidated.

Also unless that's said to be the height of his power He would get Scaling to Everybody which included sandy and Chou Chou The people who put the verse at above planet level. I also could argue that people seeming intimidated is to let the audience know this person is a legimtit threat.

"and unsure about their chances of fighting him prior to the final battle, which shouldn't logically be the case if they could destroy galaxies at a whim."

I mean the dude Did casually flick them away and completely stomp them. Before the final battle when Chou Chou got her powers back So I think that would be means To Doubt your chance of winning if you charged back into a fight you already lost.

Also "on a whim" Not really Chou Chou Needs to collect power from A lot of peons to preform the Galaxy level feat.

The highest feat with out scailing to the peon ball is Sandy destroying the sun A star level feat.

Are there any other reasons They should not be counted.

Note: I'm sorry for the bad grammar.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that you do have a point about our general standards about attack animations, but as far as I remember it explained to me, accepting such a scale would severely contradict the extent of the main threat of the game.

I will inform LazyHunter in any case.

 

[LazyHunter]

1. Yes, the Mugen Souls profiles were deleted for poor quality. I remade them recently since I finished the first game.

2. This is going to take a while

Ok' then I guess we should Downgrade a majority of RPG verses since everything said Here fits a good Number of ROG verses. So 'persona' 5 downgraded Since its Galaxy level as well despite the fact that It fits the same Qualities as this verse. I.E. Yaldaboths best fear is planet level in 'cutscene' but it has moved that put it far over planet level Also 'disgaea' since it Also suffers the same problem as this verse heck people in 'disgaea' 4 somehow couldn't muster the power to stop the moon. And are constantly in awe of people who can destroy netherworlds

If you have issues with other RPG verses, bring that up in a revision thread for them. Every verse and its circumstances is to be examined independently: "well, that verse accepts attack animations so we should accept them for this one too" it's not a good argument.

You mean 'Volgis' eating a planet correct. Where is that stated to Be his Maximum 'power.' Where's that stated to be him at his 'strongest.' Where is it stated him eating a planet is his limit.

Easy: He has no stronger story feats. The only stronger story feat comes from Chou-Chou's original goddess form creating a planet that was essentially 7x as big as the Seven Worlds, since those are 1/7 of the original planet. You don't assume a character is massively stronger than what he has shown just because it might not be its limit/full power. It doesn't work that way for Saitama (who has more weight behind his feats not being even close to his limit), it sure as hell doesn't work for Vorgis.

And Also Again this fits a good number of RPG 'verses' Cutscene feats being less impressive then move feats.

Again, that's not a valid argument.

You mean 'sandy' and Chou Chou Correct. Um here's that scene

See 14:30 for the start of it Sandy just goes "He ate the Entire world that can't be." which Could also be interpreted as just disbelief considering he just ended thousands of lives. It could also be the fact that He Ate the world instead of destroying it. I mean I can break A spoon But somebody eating a spoon in front of me would put me in a state of disbelief.

There are several scenes, including ones prior to the final fight, where other party members are unsure of their chances against Vorgis, only thinking they have a chance due to Chou-Chou gathering the fragments of her original power and Belleria joining them, since the two are ex-goddesses.

And Chou Chou seems Ticked off he ate her property more than intimidated.

Of course she does. Chou-Chou is the only party member who isn't scared of Vorgis. Every time someone brings up how strong and scary he is she shuts them off and claims she will easily kick his ass. Which she does. Without using her original goddess powers. Even after he becomes Deified Vorgis by absorbing Belleria's original power and Belleria herself. Because she is the strongest and by far the most confident party member. This doesn't mean anything.

Also unless that's said to be the height of his power He would get Scaling to Everybody which included 'sandy' and Chou Chou The people who put the verse at above planet level. I also could argue that people seeming intimidated 'is' to let the audience know this person is a 'legimtit' threat.

Doesn't work that way, that argument assumes attack animations are valid feats, which is the issue in the first place. And Sandy and Chou-Chou's animations are not really the people you would want to push to increase the verse's power, that would be Deified Vorgis black hole-like special.

I mean the dude Did casually flick them away and completely stomp them. Before the final battle when Chou Chou got her powers back So I think that would be means To Doubt your chance of winning if you charged back into a fight you already lost.

The battle is enforced by the game as impossible to win by buffing Vorgis up so that he oneshots your characters, and ends with him flicking them away and the party in good condition, not terribly injured or in the verge of death. A Planet level character can stomp another Planet level character. This doesn't really change anything.

Also "on a whim" Not really Chou Chou Needs to collect power from A lot of peons to preform the Galaxy level feat.

This isn't talking about Chou-Chou, which is the only one with that limitation. Soul casually carves multiple planets with his special, Sandy blasts multiple planets and a star on hers (despite being a newbie Demon Lord, the only one more noob is Sharuru, and well...) and Sharuru creates a pseudo black hole-like darkness sphere that consumes the planet they are in + four other planets and the surrouding space until just a white void remains, much like Deified Vorgis' special (only he swallows multiple galaxies).

You also have something you're not adressing: none of these attacks actually cause damage outside the animations themselves. The planet you're on is still there, the sun is still there, the galaxy is still there. No persistent damage at all, you don't even hurt yourself or your allies with Sharuru's special attack, despite them being in the same area the enemies are in. Those special attacks can even miss the enemy if they are far away enough in the battlefield despite the AoE the animation has, it happened to me with Deified Vorgis attack only hitting three members of the party because Sandy, the healer, was not close enough to him.

The highest feat 'with out' 'scailing' to the peon ball is Sandy destroying the sun A star level feat.

Nope. That would be Deified Vorgis special attack. But you only know that if you actually play the game, since there isn't a compilation of enemy special attacks on Youtube and Deified Vorgis can be easily killed before he uses it with a decent party, so all videos of the battle I've checked don't seem to have it (it takes a while of standing around passing turns while he attacks you until he builds up enough PP and decides to use it, the lazy bastard. Not as bad as the Sun Goddess, though)

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the reply. Does any of this need to be clarified within the profiles or verse page?

 

[LazyHunter]

Maybe changing the "destroy galaxy at a whim", since it's true only two animations involve galaxies, to "easily destroying multiple planets and/or a star". All the other stuff (inconsistency with story feats and damage only existing in the cutscenes themselves) is already noted.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Feel free to change the pages accordingly.

 

[Jesterofgames]

"If you have issues with other RPG verses, bring that up in a revision thread for them. Every verse and its circumstances is to be examined independently: "well, that verse accepts attack animations so we should accept them for this one too" it's not a good argument."

Ok I admit I could have phrased this better The reason I brought this up Is the circumstances for attacks not being accepted for this verse. Could be used to downgrade A vast majority of RPG's verses On the Entier wiki. So if we accept moved don't count for this verse We have to accept them not counting for a vast majority of verses as well. So it is a valid argument Since I'm bringing up verses with the exact same situation That are accepted. It's like a court standard i.e. The time when a court has 2 very similar of not the exact same cases And draws upon a previous ruling to help settle this case.


"Easy: He has no stronger story feats." But he has stronger attack animation feats

Which should not be discounted because he has no stronger story feats otherwise again We should throw out 90% of attack animations for verses Because the critira you have set for Mugen souls Fits A vast majority of verses.

"The only stronger story feat comes from Chou-Chou's original goddess form creating a planet that was essentially 7x as big as the Seven Worlds, since those are 1/7 of the original planet." I know But the 2 strongest story feats don't automatically mean the special attack animations don't count

"You don't assume a character is massively stronger than what he has shown just because it might not be its limit/full power. It doesn't work that way for Saitama (who has more weight behind his feats not being even close to his limit), it sure as hell doesn't work for Vorgis."

Vorgis and Saitama are 2 different situations. Vorgis Has something that says he's stronger Attack animations But your throwing thoes Out Because vorgises strongest cutscene showing Doesn't line up Despite the fact nothing says that's his full power and he could easily be high enough to match the attack animations.


Saitama however Has nothing proving he's strong enough to destroy stars/Galaxies Just Continants/Worlds

"Again, that's not a valid argument."

How is it not a valid argument when what your perposing for Mugen souls Fits several other RPGs and would downgrade them as a whole

"There are several scenes, including ones prior to the final fight, where other party members are unsure of their chances against Vorgis, only thinking they have a chance due to Chou-Chou gathering the fragments of her original power and Belleria joining them, since the two are ex-goddesses."

You mean the scenes following them getting beaten by vorgis Yeah Again as I pointed out in my previous post They are charging into a fight they've already lost Even at there strongest The scene still makes since if we count moves Because they got there metaphorical teeth kick in

"Of course she does. Chou-Chou is the only party member who isn't scared of Vorgis. Every time someone brings up how strong and scary he is she shuts them off and claims she will easily kick his ass. Which she does. Without using her original goddess powers. Even after he becomes Deified Vorgis by absorbing Belleria's original power and Belleria herself. Because she is the strongest and by far the most confident party member. This doesn't mean anything."

Your Entier point was that the people who would upgrade the verse Were intimated Here We have Chou Chou who's attack animation would upgrade the verse Not being intimided or caring so This means you will have to make an addendum in your note explaining why she wasn't. As again One of your points was Everybody with an attack animation that would upgrade being intimidated by vorgis eating a planet. Which again I don't see them being intimidated by that I see them being intimidated By charging into a fight they've already lost with something that might or might not make a difference

"Doesn't work that way, that argument assumes attack animations are valid feats, which is the issue in the first place."

Yes it does work that way this wiki has Always accepted Attack animations as valid feats Unless they prove to be outliers Vorgis showing a planet level feat in cutscene does not automatically make every attack animation Suddenly not count.

If it worked that way for All RPG's Then the wiki would have to mass downgrade RPG's Also I remeber a simalur point being brought up in the persona 5 thread with that final boss. an attack animation being far more impressive then anything the final boss showed in cutscene Do you wanna know what they said The special move still counted because the final boss Does not need to show the most Impressive feat. They get scaled to everybody else https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/695020?useskin=oasis Here's the thread in case you want to read through it

Unless there is reason to Doubt that the Top showings of a verse is an outlier

Like probably one of the most Famous examples being Roshi from dragon ball. Who destroyed a moon at max power but everybody just as strong if not stronger after that showed they were Far lower then that.

Here We have vorgis eating a planet at unknown power And then stomping our party compleatly before Chou Chou gets her powers back Not enough to say the entirety of every special attack is an outlier

"And Sandy and Chou-Chou's animations are not really the people you would want to push to increase the verse's power, that would be Deified Vorgis black hole-like special."

And you just counters your whole "Vorgis has no higher showings then planet" argument With defied vorgises attack Unless since it's a special attack animation it doesn't count for some reason which again I will say That's not how this wiki works This wiki has Always accepted special attack animations as legitimate feats. Even if the top showing in cutscenes are different.

"The battle is enforced by the game as impossible to win by buffing Vorgis up so that he oneshots your characters, and ends with him flicking them away and the party in good condition, not terribly injured or in the verge of death. A Planet level character can stomp another Planet level character. This doesn't really change anything."

It does say vorgis is the strongest Being while Chou Chou has lost her powers Which Again Means They have legitimate reason to be afraid of vorgis Even if they seemed compleatly fine he still beat them in a fight and destroyed there ship


"This isn't talking about Chou-Chou, which is the only one with that limitation. Soul casually carves multiple planets with his special, Sandy blasts multiple planets and a star on hers (despite being a newbie Demon Lord, the only one more noob is Sharuru, and well...) and Sharuru creates a pseudo black hole-like darkness sphere that consumes the planet they are in + four other planets and the surrouding space until just a white void remains, much like Deified Vorgis' special (only he swallows multiple galaxies)."

I addressed sandy

But I fail to see how soul or Sharurus special attack animations Count as an upgrade considering they are only destroying planets

At FTL speed so it's impossible to get KE to potentially get it higher

Vorgis sounds interesting if you could par chance Play the final fight again if you have a save file laying around close to it And record it?


"You also have something you're not adressing: none of these attacks actually cause damage outside the animations themselves." That's a general RPG rule that if we couldn't accept attack animations that don't damage the surrounding We couldn't accept a Vast majority of attack animations to say animations don't count here.

Is to deny attack animations In every single RPG Which again The site does not do

"The planet you're on is still there, the sun is still there, the galaxy is still there. No persistent damage at all, you don't even hurt yourself or your allies with Sharuru's special attack,"

Well if an RPG destroyed a planet/Solar system/ Galaxy Every time the characters did Then the Entier plot would be Pointless since ya they destroyed what the bad guy wants to destroy

This isn't a good enough point to throw the entirety of RPG special moves away Which I will expand on in a bit


"Those special attacks can even miss the enemy if they are far away enough in the battlefield despite the AoE the animation has, it happened to me with Deified Vorgis attack only hitting three members of the party because Sandy, the healer, was not close enough to him."

That sounds like a gameplay mechanic to pervent special moves from being friggen busted considering if they always hit the Entier field Then Well not only would people Never use them if they didn't want people to die If the special moves caused friendly fire But people who didn't care would Always use them to do huge amounts of damages on normal enemies

Instead of bosses Since you want your party in top shape to fight bosses

Oh also The same can be said for Other RPGs But the wiki still counts moves for those

And if we don't accept the moves here there's no reason to accept the moves there Since they fit the exact same criteria


"Nope. That would be Deified Vorgis special attack. But you only know that if you actually play the game, since there isn't a compilation of enemy special attacks on Youtube and Deified Vorgis can be easily killed before he uses it with a decent party, so all videos of the battle I've checked don't seem to have it (it takes a while of standing around passing turns while he attacks you until he builds up enough PP and decides to use it, the lazy bastard. Not as bad as the Sun Goddess, though)"

I mean I Own the game but I always kill him before he uses it Because the steam release comes with OP equipment and I can't check now because my computer is broken

 

[LazyHunter]

The reason I brought this up Is the circumstances for attacks not being accepted for this verse. Could be used to downgrade A vast majority of RPG's verses On the Entier wiki. So if we accept moved don't count for this verse We have to accept them not counting for a vast majority of verses as well. So it is a valid argument Since I'm bringing up verses with the exact same situation That are accepted. It's like a court standard i.e. The time when a court has 2 very similar of not the exact same cases And draws upon a previous ruling to help settle this case.

Slippery slope fallacy. Attack animations don't work for this verse for reasons I already explained in my previous post. If other verses like Disgaea and Persona accept them, I guess that they were discussed and enough good reasons were given to accept them, which doesn't mean attack animations should be automatically accepted for other verses. Each case should be discussed and specific reasons should be given as to why or why not they should be accepted.

Which should not be discounted because he has no stronger story feats otherwise again We should throw out 90% of attack animations for verses Because the 'critira' you have set for Mugen 'souls' Fits A vast majority of verses.

I repeat this once again. Appealing to other verses' situations means very little, as that only counts when there's the same exact situation and context being discussed. If Vorgis and the verse have no better story feats, then they don't have better story feats.

Vorgis' and Saitama are 2 different situations. 'Vorgis' Has something that says he's stronger Attack animations But your throwing 'thoes' Out Because 'vorgises' strongest cutscene showing Doesn't line up Despite the fact nothing says that's his full power and he could easily be high enough to match the attack animations.

Don't shift the goalposts. Your argument was "Nothing says Vorgis planet level feat was his limit", which is not a good enough argument to argue him being much stronger. It's the same argument used by Saitama wankers, which is why I made the comparison. Attack animations don't change this, since they are contradictory to the plot. "He could easily be high enough" is not an argument, you need actual feats. And no, the attack animations are not actual feats in this case.

How is it not a valid argument when what your perposing for Mugen souls Fits several other RPGs and would downgrade them as a whole

Slippery slope fallacy once again. The situation of other verses doesn't matter. Those attack animations don't fit the levels of power shown in the actual story, so they are not feats. It's not that hard to understand, there's nothing but contradictory attack animations supporting this verse in particular being stronger, but this doesn't affect other verses at all.

You mean the scenes following them getting beaten by vorgis Yeah Again as I pointed out in my previous post They are charging into a fight they've already lost Even at there strongest The scene still makes since if we count moves Because they got there metaphorical teeth kick in

They were clearly not at their strongest since they later defeat a stronger Vorgis without much issues. They were scared of him and his power. That's a fact, and there's no way you can twist that to support your argument of attack animations being valid feats.

Your Entier point was that the people who would upgrade the verse Were intimated Here We have Chou Chou who's attack animation would upgrade the verse Not being intimided or caring so This means you will have to make an addendum in your note explaining why she wasn't. As again One of your points was Everybody with an attack animation that would upgrade being intimidated by vorgis eating a planet. Which again I don't see them being intimidated by that I see them being intimidated By charging into a fight they've already lost with something that might or might not make a difference

Only the strongest levels of Peon Ball would actually be an upgrade, and one likely finishes the game without ever coming close to having that many peons. Her Peon Ball is not even counted as the attack animations that would upgrade the verse, those are Soul, Sandy, Sharuru and Vorgis' specials. None of those match the power displayed in-story by the strongest characters in the verse, Chou-Chou and Vorgis.

Yes it does work that way this wiki has Always accepted Attack animations as valid feats Unless they prove to be outliers Vorgis showing a planet level feat in cutscene does not automatically make every attack animation Suddenly not count.

If the attack animations don't make sense when put against the actual story and plot of the game, then they don't count. It's not a hard concept to grasp, they contradict the plot and the power levels of the actual story, so they don't count.

If it worked that way for All RPG's Then the wiki would have to mass downgrade RPG's Also I remeber a simalur point being brought up in the persona 5 thread with that final boss. an attack animation being far more impressive then anything the final boss showed in cutscene Do you wanna know what they said The special move still counted because the final boss Does not need to show the most Impressive feat. They get scaled to everybody else https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/695020?useskin=oasis Here's the thread in case you want to read through it

Unless there is reason to Doubt that the Top showings of a verse is an outlier

Seriously? If there was even a discussion about it, let alone one as big as the thread you're linking, then' 'the wiki doesn't always automatically accep attack animations as valid feats and the only argument of any worth you have is moot. And "characters clearly not having that level of power in-story", "animations not causing damage to their surroudings" are good enough reasons to dismiss them.

And you just counters your whole "Vorgis has no higher showings then planet" argument With defied vorgises attack Unless since it's a special attack animation it doesn't count for some reason which again I will say That's not how this wiki works This wiki has Always accepted special attack animations as legitimate feats. Even if the top showing in cutscenes are different.

No it doesn't, stop trying to twist things to support your argument. That's a special attack, which I have already explained multiple times, it's not accepted for this verse. Even if they were, and they're not, it would be a ridiculous outlier, just like galaxy-sized Peon Ball would be if the attack animations were even valid feats in the first place, and they aren't.

As for the ridiculous claim about the wiki automatically accepting special attack animations, my prior answer already debunks that.

It does say vorgis is the strongest Being while Chou Chou has lost her powers Which Again Means They have legitimate reason to be afraid of vorgis Even if they seemed compleatly fine he still beat them in a fight and destroyed there ship

I wonder when you'll realize this point in particular doesn't support your argument at all. The party sans Chou-Chou was defeated and terrified of a planet-level character. How in the hell does that support your side of the argument of the attack animations being valid feats? It doesn't, you're just repeating the fact that they are scared of him. Also, he didn't destroy the ship.

I addressed sandy

No, you didn't. You said it would be a star level feat, but gave zero reasons as to why it is a valid feat.

But I fail to see how soul or Sharurus special attack animations Count as an upgrade considering they are only destroying planets

You are aware that you can have an upgrade that only moves you higer on a tier without changing your tier, right? Destroying multiple planets is more impressive that fighting a character capable of destroying one.

Vorgis sounds interesting if you could par chance Play the final fight again if you have a save file laying around close to it And record it?

I'm not the guy who keeps savefiles around the bosses, the only reason I saw it it's because regular Vorgis used it so I didn't attack Deified Vorgis until he used it to see what it was. The closest save I have is almost 8-9 hours prior, and I'm not really willing to go through all that shampuru, money and level grinding again.

hat's a general RPG rule that if we couldn't accept attack animations that don't damage the surrounding We couldn't accept a Vast majority of attack animations to say animations don't count here.

Is to deny attack animations In every single RPG Which again The site does not do

Look above for that claim being debunked. The attack doesn't make sense in-story nor it does in-fight. It's just an animations designed to look cool.

Well if an RPG destroyed a planet/Solar system/ Galaxy Every time the characters did Then the Entier plot would be Pointless since ya they destroyed what the bad guy wants to destroy

That doesn't counter any of my arguments.

That sounds like a gameplay mechanic to pervent special moves from being friggen busted considering if they always hit the Entier field Then Well not only would people Never use them if they didn't want people to die If the special moves caused friendly fire But people who didn't care would Always use them to do huge amounts of damages on normal enemies.

Exactly, special attack animations are just game mechanis and don¡t affect the real story.

Oh also The same can be said for Other RPGs But the wiki still counts moves for those

And if we don't accept the moves here there's no reason to accept the moves there Since they fit the exact same criteria

Again, look above for that claims beind debunked.

I mean I Own the game but I always kill him before he uses it Because the steam release comes with OP equipment and I can't check now because my computer is broken

It's basically done at random once he has enough PP, so if you're going to check it out bring a lot of heals or overlevel so that he doesn't hurt you much with his regular attacks.

Side note: Given how you bring it up, you seems to have a chip on your shoulder regarding Persona 5 accepting an attack animation. I don't play Persona and I didn't participate on the discussion that accepted it so I don't know which animation it is, the context or even if it makes sense. However, that animation being accepted doesn't mean all should be accepted. Unlike what you believe, Mugen Souls not using them doesn't mean all animations should be rejected either. It's case by case, and Mugen Souls doesn't fit.

 

[Jesterofgames]

You know I had this huge post of me agreeing to disagree and trying to explain what I meant (and also Trying to explain my mindset of why I disagree better)

But it wouldn't post it for reasons if you want to see the full thing I can retype it out if you want But I feel to frustrated to do so right now However I did ask 2 questions at the end I feel are important to type out

1. Why dismiss all special moves And not just the ones that are outliers There are plenty of special moves that could give the verse Speed boosts that wouldn't be outliers


And 2. The environmental damage argument could anybody give an example of a RPG that actually kept the environmental damage special moves did Because this argument always ticks me off and honestly I feel like it shouldn't be used

If you don't feel it matches the power of the verse I can Try to understand that even if I don't necisarry agree with it

But unless somebody provides me an example I can NOT understand the environmental damage argument Honestly The Entier "it doesn't do environmental damage" argument feels like it's using Plot induced stupidity Because If they really destroyed Everything they did in a game Move It would End the plot before it actually ended

 

[Jesterofgames]

Also side note Could it be possible the 7 worlds are actually in different solar systems I ask because Chou Chou and the others refure to the 7 worlds as 7 lights off in the distance

And well unless I'm missing something shouldn't worlds Not give off enough light to be visible from space with nothing but the naked eye

This does matter Since if it is possible Then it could give Chou Chou and the others an actual speed feat

 

[LazyHunter]

^ Impossible to know. IIRC the only time we can get a speed feat for the ship doesn't give good results, so the worlds should be close. There's also the Sun Goddess being described as "the goddess of the closest sun", which implies the planets are very close to each other, likely in a solar system kind of way.

^^ Because we are rejecting the attack animations, so we have to look at the story for speed feats before we can judge if something from them is an outlier in terms of speed or not. And I can't remember a single speed feat except the one I mentioned above, so we can't know if things like Altis jumping outside the atmosphere and coming back before the meteor she dropped finishes exploding are outliers or not. It doesn't really matter much in the end, since 9 times out of 10 matches equalize speed so Unknown speed is not an issue. If you can point out a story speed feat that we can use I'd have nothing against using it.

If the damage a special attack, especially ones as destructive as the ones we are discussing, causes is not reflected in the actual story and no explanation is given as to actually why (IIRC, Final Fantasy has summons use pocket dimensions or something similar) it's a mark against that type of attack. We are not talking about large craters dissapearing. The characters cannot be destroying the planet they are on or the closest sun or the galaxy/ies they're in without any repercussion to the plot and not raise some concern, expecially when they don't display anything close to that in the actual story. In fact, the Sun Goddess being a thing would point out that the sun is never destroyed, as if so that should have probably come up.

 

[Jesterofgames]

The reason I asked Was because there's a feat where Volgis sends out his minions to "spice up the other worlds" However upon further inspection there was no givin timeframe the king said (paraphrasing somewhat here) "Just the other day monsters showed up and started wreaking havoc" So it could be anywhere From Faster then sound (since it takes years for a sound speed object to travel between planets) To FTL since there's no givin timeframe I missed said dismissel of a time frame when I asked

 

[Antvasima]

I think that LazyHunter makes sense.

However, perhaps we should write an official discussion rule regarding that combat animations should only be used if they do not severely contradict the scale of the rest of the story, and should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis?

I will ask the rest of the staff about the issue.

 

[LazyHunter]

@Jesterofgames

Yeah, if we knew the distance between the worlds and had a timeframe for that it would be a speed feat we could use. But I don't think the game gives the distance or a timeframa for traveling between worlds. The scene I mentioned with Ryuto and Marina piloting the ship, which is the only one I remember that gives some numbers, is not usable since Ryuto explicitely claims the speeds Marina reached while piloting should be impossible for the ship.

 

[Jesterofgames]

Sorry for the late response but Well i think the distance should be simaler to our solar system If it is indeed a solar system

Though If there Arnt any speed feats in cutscene? How could any speed feat in battle animations be outliers

This isn't like vorgis eating a planet and being considered a threat There is Nothing saying they couldn't do the speed feats shown in cutscene

 

[Antvasima]

I have been talking about the issue of combat animations with the rest of the staff:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/786524

It seems like they think that the animations should generally be accepted, but are to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, and sometimes have to be disregarded due to being contradictory outliers.

 

[Jesterofgames]

I have been talking about the issue of combat animations with the rest of the staff:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/786524

It seems like they think that the animations should generally be accepted, but are to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, and sometimes have to be disregarded due to being contradictory outliers.

I was wondering About that earlier today Actually

My only question would be Woild we dismiss All combat animations Or only the ones that are outliers

Like for example if combat animations Had several feats in line with the verses power But a few outside it Would we count the ones inside the verses power But disregard the ones outside it

Or disregard all combat animations As a whole

 

[Antvasima]

As far as I understand, we would accept combat animation feats unless they are complete outliers.

You may or may not have to upgrade Mugen Souls for the sake of consistency.

However, we need more staff input. Perhaps you can start a new thread regarding the issue that I can then highlight?

 

[Jesterofgames]

As far as I understand, we would accept combat animation feats unless they are complete outliers.

You may or may not have to upgrade Mugen Souls for the sake of consistency.

However, we need more staff input. Perhaps you can start a new thread regarding the issue that I can then highlight?

Just double checking Because I like to be 100% sure on everything but Do you mean another topic on Mugen souls battle animation?

I'm just double checking for Clarity

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I would prefer if LazyHunter starts the new topic asking for input regarding the issue, and then informs me about it. My apologies for accidentally mixing the two of you up.

Edit: Here is the new thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/791568