Moving Across Universes Speed Feats

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I was personally talking about this with some users here because of a feat I wanted to get calced, but it seems there's some confusion in regards to speed feats where you move across multiple universes with sheer speed.

Initially, I was under the impression that if you use physical movement to move from the universe your present within to another universe, it would count as a ridiculously high speed feat on your part. Whether that involved moving from Universe 1 to Universe 3 or from Universe 1 to, like, somewhere in the trillions. However, im told that we aren't allowed to give speed feats based on this since the distance between the gap in universes is supposed to be unquantifiable. Im told we even reject this for most verses who do this sort of speed feat, yet there are some verses here who are made out as exceptions. Archie Sonic is a glaring example of this still being currently done. So what is the consensus on this? Can we give speed feats to characters who physically move across different universes or nah?

Also, this is speaking about these feats in general. Not any specific verse is getting targeted, Archie Sonic was just an example for me to use to bring this topic up.

 

[Theuser789]

Archie Sonic is not the same as what you are saying, Sonic travels from universe to universe via the Cosmic Interstate, not just by running to a universe to other

 

[ShakeResounding]

Yeah, Executor extensively talked about why Archie Sonic's universal crossing feats are valid within multiple speed threads due to in-universe circumstances and cosmology. Let's not repeat that song and dance for the umpteenth time.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well, I never participated or saw thosee threads so I wouldnt know. Mind posting them here please?

Again, im not targetting Archie Sonic. I just want general clarification for these type of speed feats as a whole.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Sure. The universes are connected by something within the cosmology so it physically binds universes. See Executor's comments here.

What you're saying would just vary between verses. Archie has a reason for why it's used. Other verses may not.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

There is an occurring problem characters traveling to other timelines through sheer flight and has often been considered unquantifiable. It's even clarified on our Tiering System page that the distance between two timelines is quantifiable and cannot be measured; they could be anywhere between infinitesimal and infinite distances but on a 4th spatial dimension scale. Traveling through 2 or more merged space-time continuums is also not quantifable the same way as a bunch of verses would be having Sextillions, Octillions or even more times the speed of light by that logic. If two or more timelines are merging or even "Starting to merge" we don't assume that it's just two three dimensional universes are simply getting closer, it's just random effects in space times merging.

I also agree we shouldn't target specific verses and that this is a general standard. But I recall, Dargoo, Kepekley, and DontTalk have also discussed stuff like this numerous times.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Again, it likely just varies between verses.

Some cases, such as Archie, have set and defined lengths to where universes begin, where they end, and how to physically get to another universes.

Other cases leave that type of travel with blanks and aren't often gone in-depth. For verses such as those, it would just be unquantifiable or Dimensional Travel.

I figure it's just a case-by-case basis.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This feat used to be accepted based on this thread, and also had statements regarding 100 trillion light years per universe. but it got removed after LordXcano back when he was still a Mod made a thread discussing the problems with it. Also, it's only the distances between universes if given, not the size of the universes themselves is what matters.

 

[DontTalkDT]

A universe, whether finite or infinite, doesn't have a border, so one can't leave it by 3D movement.

So if a character leaves a universe, either what that fiction calls universe isn't a universe in scientific sense, or he does higher dimensional movement.

But distance of universes in higher D space is completly unclear, so neither possibility can be quantified.

Exception would be if they tell you the distance between universes, in which case the fact that your are crossing universes is irrelevant.

 

[Eficiente]

If the travel is from universe 1 to universe 2 with just speed, one should at minimum calc the distance traveled in both universes as if they were next to each other and ignore the gap between them.

If they character who did the feat really cannot teleport then it didn't just vanished at one point in the feat, at least not when it was travelling the universes themselves. Meanwhile what is the gap between the universes for the author? Maybe it's none, maybe it's some interpretable distance, who knows.

If the results are too high for the verse then such an odd feat would be more likely to be an outlier.

 

[DontTalkDT]

If the travel is from universe 1 to universe 2 with just speed, one should at minimum calc the distance traveled in both universes as if they were next to each other and ignore the gap between them.

Problem is that there is no real fixed distance to be travelled in a universe to reach another one, because no point is closer to outside the universe than another. So that really would come down to just ignoring that they are travelling universes and measure the moved distance otherwise.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

So what if the universes are connected by physical distances but are considered separate space-times?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm with DontTalk here, plenty times was traveling from one universe to another via sheer flight deems possible, but traveling intergalactic distances was considered much harder. As I said distance between two universes isn't always greater than the size between two universes. It's like saying having Point A on a sheet of paper, where Point B is on the other side of the X-Axis and but the same Y Axis. And Point C is slightly above Point A on the Y Axis and only slightly to the right of Point A. And claiming Point B is closer because you only need to travel one dimension as opposed to 2.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Executor was in a rush, but he left me his thoughts on the matter:

"I'm having problems with my internet, so I'll be fast here

First, some old calculations were made following older concepts. I thought that the interpretation I used was common, so I used it. If the convention has changed, it can now be discarded. The idea that was used, unless the calculations indicated, is that the universes were limited to one size (We use the observable size) and after that is crossed, we count as another universe and so on. Basically these calculations are based on the notion of a quilted multiverse, since a lot of the times the universes are parallel through X/Y/Z axes, but perpendicular in another W axis, then this notion don't work, since the travel between universes would be in this W axis that in unquantifiable

So, yes I mostly agree with what DontTalkDT said

About the Archie Sonic thing, since I think this is why you is talking with me, the answer is that, Sonic isn't traveling between universes with sheer speed. He enters a portal and this portal leads him to another place that somehow connects all the places in the multiverse and there's enough evidence that the distance is really high since it isn't simply "we are vibrating to enter this another universe" but he really travels through interstellar distance, we saw planetes, stars, galaxies and even distances given in thousands of light years and speeds in thousands of light years per second. Then, I thought that it's all right to think that through the Cosmic Interstate the multiverse of parallel universes works like a quilted multiverse, maybe because the cosmic interstate is like the perpendicular zone and is in another dimensional axis that crosses the universes or something else without any real explanatio

If this isn't more valid, I don't a problem with removing the calculation, or at least change the distance to something smaller."

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'd like to thank Executor for this input and I do feel sorry that he's been feeling stressed and/or overworked as of late.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I agree with DontTalk. Outside of extremely specific circumstances "moving fast enough to move between realities" is unquantifiable.

Granted I can't think of many instances where there isn't some kind of statement that can clue us into speed (such as the various incanrations of Flash breaking lightspeed to do it, or moving some ridiculously high numeral in m/s), so like much of the site it should be judged on a case-by-case.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Kirby's current speed feat relies on universal travel so would that be effected by this? Plus his other feat of "traveling to Another Dimension"

There's no set sizes or distances so IMO that would imvalidate Kirby's current rating if this were to be agreed upon.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think I recall problems with Kirby's speed being brought up for similar reasons. And yes, Speed is really something even one dimensional characters can have. And 11-B character could technically have infinite speed, but never able to reach a point by crossing the 2nd dimension. Same with 2-D characters trying to cross the 3rd dimension. It's basically the same case here that even having Infinite speed characters cannot enter other universes. But you don't need edge of the universe in short timeframe speed to enter other universes via sheer flight.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well in Kirby's case, he has multiple speed feats. If he has a feat thats just crossing to the end of one universe, thats still fine.

His feat of crossing Another Dimension back to his universe would probably be invalidated though. But Cal or someone else would be able to explain the feat better than me.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Kirby is easily Massively FTL+ at the very least Billions of times. But I'm iffy on using the dimensional travel methods unless explicitly stated.

 

[Akreious]

So reading through this thread, what about moving from one Timeline to another? This thread so far has been Universe to Universe, rather than Timeline to Timeline.

Pretty sure using sheer movement to move from one timeline to an entirely different timeline would require Immeasurable Speed since no amount of 3D travel would allow you to move to an entirely new Timeline, no? It literally doesn't matter what the distance between Universes or something is because the main point is that they moved outside of linear time, which is pretty much the definition of Immeasurable

 

[Eficiente]

On the Kirby stuff the dimensional travel feat we use has a thing traveling from place A in one universe to another universe's version of the same place A. And we use a universe's diameter as the distance. The other dimensional travel feat in the verse isn't used as we don't know in what part of the universe travelled the characters are going, only in what part of universe departed they were.

So we aren't really using dimensional travel as their speed, just the part where they move in space, which so happens that have dimensional travel that is being ignored.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I mean, if the Kirby feats have other context, they're fine. But I meant traveling "Outside the Universe" or "Towards another Universe" should be unquantifiable.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Wait wait wait. Im kind of getting confused now after reading Eficiente's latest reply. So Kirby's feat is used because, basically, Kirby is traveling from AND to the same place in both the universes he's crossing? If so, answer me this please:

If a character in Universe A travels from Earth, and travels to another Earth in Universe B, the feat would be able to be calced?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

If a character in Universe A travels from Earth, and travels to another Earth in Universe B, the feat would be able to be calced?

Pretty sure that's immeasurable.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We explained it above why it isn't...

 

[Dragomer]

Your explaination kinda don't make sense with accepting Kirby's feat TBH, as far as i understand if that earth to earth thing isn't quantifiable, Kirby shouldn't be quantifiable either.

I could be missunderstanding stuff but it doesn't really make sense to me.

 

[AKM sama]

Btw, if someone is crossing universes via speed, although it is deemed unquantifiable, the fact that the character at least travels the radius of the current universe he is in, can still be used for a low-end calculation?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@AKM, not quite. I explained the difference that it's just 4 dimensional space travel as opposed to how fast. And it's common for characters to fly from universe to universe despite being unable to reach beyond the Earth's escape velocity.

 

[Akreious]

So uh none of this addresses the Timeline to Timeline thing I brought up?

Like not to the past of your current Timeline, like you moved using your own speed to an entirely different timeline

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Btw, if someone is crossing universes via speed, although it is deemed unquantifiable, the fact that the character at least travels the radius of the current universe he is in, can still be used for a low-end calculation?

Im currently doing this for another verse so id say so.

As long as it's through sheer speed, and its proven that physical movement is involved rather than some fancy teleportation or portal creation, it should be acceptabe.

 

[Eficiente]

This leaves me with a number of what if-like questions.

What if the universe crossing feat done via just speed is repeatedly acknowledged in-universe and feats like those are done many times? What if one character that fast throws a thing at other character, we see the thing traveling past many galaxies, then the other character dodges it, and then the thing goes to another universe via just speed? Shouldn't we at least acknowledge how the thing traveled many galaxies in a set amount of time?

 

[Dragomer]

We should honestly treat that as immeasurable speed IMO, just like we qualify the gap between low 2-C and 2-C, it doesn't make sense to treat it different for speed and AP.

revising how we see that gap is possible too i guesse.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Maybe this should be given a highlight since multiple staff members have differing opinions all from each other?

 

[Eficiente]

I believe that yes it should be immeasurable (or infinite, idk one of those) but that not only the feats themselves should be taken as outliers when needed, but the gap between universes should also be considered to have time in it in the verses where we explicitly know that the characters doing that have a limited amount of speed.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

But then wouldn't the downside be that the universes have to share space-time in order for that to happen?

 

[Eficiente]

If in canon characters can move, talk, etc. in those gaps then..yes. Sucks for them to have such a nonsensical cosmology, this goes on the same lines as blowing up a super tiny planet not being 5-B.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

So basically, just so I dont get a headache from this, your saying this then:

Moving from Universe A to Unverse B to Universe C is unquantifiable because those universes are seperate space-times. But Moving from Universe D to Universe E to Universe F is quantifiable because the latter universes share space-time, so moving in-between their gaps still applies time and distance.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Oh lord. Now it's gonna upgrade people to immeasurable?

 

[Dragomer]

What if the crossing happen off screen where we just see them leave and then arrive ?

And what if it's done by a character said to transcend space ?

Also the seperate space time version still sound like immeasurable speed to me.