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Post-Crisis Superman Speed Feat

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Universal Disclaimer:

After spending months researching this particular wiki, I have become fully aware that what I am about to post may not be the most popular opinion. While I am not trying to accuse anyone here of unchecked bias, I have noticed the prevalent inclination to deem Superman feats outliers (even with numerous other feats backing them) while simultaneously allowing other feats from other characters to be added immediately and seemingly without the same evidence required for Superman.

With that said, and as I respect the opinion and intellect of many members of this wiki, I am asking that posters only respond with refutation of my claims after providing a clear explanation for why they disagree as well as concrete evidence they have researched to the contrary. I am not requesting this to be pompous or arrogant, but merely to get to the truth of the fiction we all love, which is ultimately why fiction exists in the first place. What you do here may not seem like it has any meaning or bearing on the real world, but keep in mind that every scientific marvel and advancement throughout modern human history began in a book.

"That's what fiction is for. It's for getting at the truth when the truth isn't sufficient for the truth." -Tim O'Brie


Introduction:

This is a Post-Crisis speed feat from the Final Crisis storyline for Superman of New Earth, Overman of Earth-10, and Captain Marvel of Earth-5 that has them completely outpacing and destroying the "Reality-Blitzing Missiles" theatening to destroy the entire DC Multiverse. Basically, the multiverse was being threatened by Mandrakk the Dark Monitor (a being from a race so large that entire universes are microscopic to them) with his goal being to "sterilize" and wipe all life of the entire multiverse, absorbing each and every individual's life energy into himself. Superman calls the Monitors a race of vampire gods, which is a very fitting description concerning the overall plan.


The Threat:

Below, I will first prove that these missiles were, in fact, intended to destroy entire universes, as stated by the comic issue itself and DC's official release of their Multiversal Map, which gives a description of the Monitors' ship classes.

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Something to mention is that the terms "world(s)" and "universe(s)" are often used synonymously when talking of the DC Multiverse within the comics themselves. After the Infinite Crisis storyline, the DC Multiverse was compartmentalized into 52 known universes, which is what Superman is referring to in the above panel concerning the impending danger.

Next, the missiles being talked about are stated to be "Reality-Blitzing Missiles," which gives them a relatively fast sounding speed connotatively. The definition this site gives for a speed blitz is "the act of attacking their opponent before they are capable of perceiving or reacting to them." However, even though the whole ordeal is actually stated to take place in the time between a heartbeat, I will be giving several different time spans to accurately prove the speed of this feat.


The Feat:

Below, you will find evidence for how large a single DC universe is, the feat itself, and how long it supposedly took.

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According to Post-Crisis Adam Strange, after taking Superman into the far reaches of space, a single universe in DC Comics is at least 100 trillion light years across (it is certainly more, but this is the only concrete statement currently available without relying on conjecture). Using that distance and the fact that these missiles were going to wipe all life in the DC Multiverse at a very rapid rate (blitzing reality), we can lowball how fast Superman, Overman, and Marvel had to be travelling to stop them. I say lowball because they were going to blitz through the entire multiverse, not just a singular universe.

And while the issue said they blitzed the "reality-blitzing missiles" in between a single heartbeat, I will be giving three separate distinctions for their speed.


High-End (what the issue implied)

100 trillion light years per 1 second = 3,155,692,600,000,000,000,000 c (3.15 sextillion c)


Middle-End (assuming the missiles would take an hour to cross the universe)

100 trillion light years per 1 hour = 876,581,280,000,000,000 c (876 quadrillion c)


Low-End (assuming the missiles would take a day to cross the universe)

100 trillion light years per 1 day = 36,524,220,000,000,000 c (36.5 quadrillion c)


Outlier?

It must be noted that this is toward the end of Post-Crisis Superman's career from 1986-2011 (before his reintroduction in Rebirth). Superman's specific storyline for Final Crisis took place in 2009 and wasn't contradicted as an outlier either before or after the feat. Actually, it's the contrary.

Four years prior in 2005, Superman performs a flying feat in Infinite Crisis from Earth to Krypton (located in the Andromeda Galaxy) in under five minutes that places him billions of times faster than light. If anything, this feat is just a solidification of Superman's growing power, as he's always been a character to grow in power the longer he lives under a yellow sun.


Final Tally

100 trillion light years per 1 second = 3,155,692,600,000,000,000,000 c (3.15 sextillion c)


Reaction and Combat Speed (Edited in from comments below)

As you can see from the scans, they didn't just catch up to the missiles; they also encircled them before making contact (as evidenced in the middle missile that Superman destroys) using a rolling scissors maneuver often employed by fighter pilots with ships that have similar speed and thrust capabilities as their own.

To perform such a maneuver at such high speeds, the pilots (Superman, Overman, and Marvel) would have to be reacting to the very complex movements their trying to perform. Thus, the feat does not just qualify for travel speed, but also reaction speed as well.
 
Wasnt there a feat that was much, much lower than this that was performed by Wonder Woman that was considered an outlier?
 
I'm also becoming very interested in this. Supes isn't supposed to be slow by any stretch of the imagination, and considering we have Lanterns, Wonder Woman, Flash (obviously), and Superman having feats at the very least in the billions c+, not sure we can call this an outlier. Also, we're very loose with the outlier calling.
 
Green Lanterns can literally cross the universe in hours, and Superman scales to them. Superboy Prime (Before he became a universe-shattering Reality Warper) flew from Earth to the Krypton (in the Andromeda Galaxy) in minutes, Wally West's numerous feats, Wonder Woman blocking the Shattered God and now this.

Hard to consider an outlier now. The only reason I see someone saying they're outlier is because "Oh, I agree that Superman is MFTL+, but this is too MFTL+ for my tastes".
 
The real cal howard said:
I'm also becoming very interested in this. Supes isn't supposed to be slow by any stretch of the imagination, and considering we have Lanterns, Wonder Woman, Flash (obviously), and Superman having feats at the very least in the billions c+, not sure we can call this an outlier. Also, we're very loose with the outlier calling.
From what ive seen its actually closer to the trillions or quadrillions.
 
My only goal in calculating this feat was simply to prove that there are many Post-Crisis feats that have been overlooked or unexplored over the years. Recently joining this wiki, my goal is to use my immense Post-Crisis collection to calculate many more feats for many more DC characters.

But yes, quantitatively speaking, if scaled to Green Lanterns, Superman should have already been in the quadrillion of times faster than light category. Both Green Lanterns were able to traverse the universe (at least 100 trillion light years as proven above) in approximately 10 hours. In both Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis, Superman proved himself to be faster than them. This feat just supports that.
 
Just saying, that Green Lantern feat was calced here at 40,734,000,000,000 c, which is a lot lower than even the low end of the calculation in this thread.
 
@WeeklyBattles

However, Matthew Schroeder presumably used the observable universe as we know it in the real world (an honest assumption without the supporting evidence of the DC universe's size stated above).

The Green Lanterns' true cruising speed is:

100 trillion light years per 10 hours = 8.7658128e+16 c (87.6 quadrillion times faster than light)
 
I'd like to address some of my thoughts regarding this proposal.

While I don't have any real disagreements with the speed you came up with for the reality-blitzing missile, I don't think it should scale to Supermans speed. My reasoning for this is exactly why you cannot scale the speed of lightning to someone who's dodged it, due to speed, distance and time. I don't think calculating that would be too difficult either.

This feat can still be anomalous, even if it's within the same tier of speed, allow me to elaborate. The highest end of this feat is about 3.15e21c; if we compare it to other showings of Supermans speed such as calculations where it was calculated billions of times faster than light (unsure of exact numbers, I'll go with 2.45e9c) we begin to realise this feat exceeds that by about 1.4e12 times. If a character who usually displays building level feats suddenly pulls something off which exceeds it times a trillion, I definitely think some eyebrows would be raised.
 
This is not a fair analogy, becaust Massively FTL+ is the fastest level of speed until reaching Infinite, and characteters on this level never have the same level of Massively FTL+ speed across all of their feats (of course not, as this is fiction and the story comes first).

What I am saying it, Green Lantern crossing 100 Light-Years in minutes is a feat. Green Lantern crossing the universe in 10 hours is also a feat, and neither invalidates the other.

You can see my Saint Seiya Speed Blog for an example to how the speed of Massively FTL+ characters can vary, but still always remain in a MFTL+ range.

I am not saying that there can't be MFTL+ outliers, of course there are. Marvel Ares exchanging blows in a plank-length comes to mind.
 
Thank you, Matthew Schroeder. My thoughts exactly.

As I stated above, Green Lantern's true cruising speeds based on the actual stated size of the DC universe are really:

100 trillion light years per 10 hours = 8.7658128e+16 c (87.6 quadrillion times faster than light)

Since Superman and other DC heroes were scaled to this speed when it was in the trillions, why does it suddenly invalidate it when it's actually proven to be in the quadrillions? Especially since Superman outraced the entire Green Lantern Corps. iInfinite Crisis.


Again, as stated above, if anything, this feat proves itself as logical progression of the character's power.
 
@AMM

Only problem with that is that they catch up to the missile, so they definitely outpaced it. Whether or not it's an outlier is still up for debate though. Same with whether or not it scales to combat/reaction speed or not.
 
Of course it scales to Combat and Reaction. Any flight feat should scale to Reaction and Combat unless the character is depicted as flying like an aimless bullet not knowing where they're going too.

And in this case, they were chasing / catching up / reacting to the missiles.
 
@LordXcano

As you can see from the scans though, they didn't just catch up to the missiles; they also circled them before making contact (at least evidenced in the middle missile that Superman destroys) using a rolling scissors maneuver often employed by fighter pilots with ships that have similar speed and thrust capabilities as their own.

To perform such a maneuver at such high speeds, the pilots (Superman, Overman, and Marvel) would have to be reacting to the very complex movements their trying to perform.
 
@Matt

Except if you're matching the speed of an object that object is stationary in your view. That's why you can spend minutes reacting to other cars on the road even though they're moving at 40-80 mph.
 
"Only problem with that is that they catch up to the missile, so they definitely outpaced it."

Yeah, that's true. Scaling the missiles speed would be fine by me in that case.

"This is not a fair analogy"

The point of my analogy is that saying feats which can exceed prior ones over a trillion times; be exempt from being called anomalous whilst consistent building level characters under the same circumstances would be treated extremely different seems like a double standard.

I don't really see your point, you seem to accept the fact that feats within the MFTL+ tier can be anomalous when properly examined, yet a feat which exceeds prior showings over 1428571428571x acceptable? There's one thing I'll admit though, I haven't actually investigated Supermans prior MFTL+ feats properly so I'm not sure if this one even is anomalous. Despite that, this feat being anomalous is in the realms of possibility depending on what's out there for Superman atm.
 
Just saying, before any changes are made to a DC profile Antvasima should probably take a look at this thread
 
Given that the high-end here is still only 35,999x higher than the Green Lantern feat I don't think this is too outlier-y for travel speed.

Combat speed on the other hand is outdone 27,258,770x over even by the low-end and 2,355,157,800,000x over by the high-end, so I would say that it's an outlier for that and even if it wasn't it shouldn't scale anyway due to reasons above.
 
@LordXcano

Did you read my reasoning above for why it should scale to reaction speed?

"As you can see from the scans though, they didn't just catch up to the missiles; they also circled them before making contact (at least evidenced in the middle missile that Superman destroys) using a rolling scissors maneuver often employed by fighter pilots with ships that have similar speed and thrust capabilities as their own.

To perform such a maneuver at such high speeds, the pilots (Superman, Overman, and Marvel) would have to be reacting to the very complex movements their trying to perform."
 
Alright, I'll accept that. But it's still ridiculously higher than any other combat speed feat.
 
@Matt.

Using the true value of 100 trillion for the WW calc, the low end winds up being 52,596,915,833,352,950,000 c, assuming I did the right number of zeroes.
 
I heavely disagree with this calc.

Not only this is a massive outlier, it clearly contradicts canon of the DC verse.

Also, the numbers are way wanked.
 
Darkanine said:
I'm in a rush so I can't check it right now, but I'll highlight it for you.
Personally, with all the MFTL+ feats, I'd be hardpress to really call them outliers, even efore this.
Thank you for the time.

Same to everyone responding to this calculation. Whether in agreement or disagreement, I appreciate the polite and respectful responses.
 
Well, the math seems fine. Since Matthew seems okay with the calc in context of DC Comics, I guess the contextual aspect is fine too.

By the way, if this is accepted, you should put the OP in a blog post so it can be linked easier.
 
I will, for sure, thank you. Is there any downside to posting calculations in blog posts initially? Just for my own records. I assume they're not seen by the public if posted just as a blog post. Would that be correct?
 
If you make a Blog Post, everyone can still see it. The general procedure is to make a Calc Blog and share the Blog on the "Calculations Evaluations" thread.
 
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