Mordred Pendragon vs Izuku Midoriya

[Expectro2000xxx]

It's not as good she can dodge the arrow and atk while fighting ither servant from chiron who have clairvoyance and true eye mind

That's what I have see in this moment, when fighting Jack she dodge a arrow from chirion who was at distance and it's a absurdly good archer.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

It's not as good she can dodge the arrow and atk while fighting ither servant from chiron who have clairvoyance and true eye mind

Her best feats with instinct, to my knowledge, is being able to react to sneak attacks from Jack because her visibility penalties are halved and blocking arrows from Chiron for the same reason.

Deku's Danger Sense lets him do both of those feats easily, and is compounded further by his own sheer intellect letting him predict the actions of others.

So how is her Instinct even threatening to Deku here if she doesn't even predict abilities and movements to the same tier as Deku does?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Danger Sense is a better version of her own Instinct by feats. Idk how someone can say it's inferior.

 

[Regidian]

Her best feats with instinct, to my knowledge, is being able to react to sneak attacks from Jack because her visibility penalties are halved and blocking arrows from Chiron for the same reason.

Deku's Danger Sense lets him do both of those feats easily, and is compounded further by his own sheer intellect letting him predict the actions of others.

So how is her Instinct even threatening to Deku here if she doesn't even predict abilities and movements to the same tier as Deku does?

Because the chiron you talk have litteraly clairvoyance and true eye mind that allow this


It works as a danger-avoidance ability, that utilizes all of his combat experience to predict an opponent’s actions and change the situation in his favor. Even in the direst of situations, Chiron can calmly analyze the conditions of a battle and his opponent's capabilities to reach the optimal course of action, considering every possibility, even if his chance of victory is only 1%.

When combined with his Eye of the Mind (True), it even allows for future sight in his case.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Her best feats with instinct, to my knowledge, is being able to react to sneak attacks from Jack because her visibility penalties are halved and blocking arrows from Chiron for the same reason.

Deku's Danger Sense lets him do both of those feats easily, and is compounded further by his own sheer intellect letting him predict the actions of others.

So how is her Instinct even threatening to Deku here if she doesn't even predict abilities and movements to the same tier as Deku does?

She didn't predict something of same tier as Deku, predicted something of better tier as are the arrow from Chirion, and the mist of Jack not only block sight but sense in general.

 

[Regidian]

Danger Sense is a better version of her own Instinct by feats. Idk how someone can say it's inferior.

Bevause she by feat have avoid atk by someone that litteraly do better than his danger sense?

 

[Regidian]

And even whitout that she can fight with arturia too who have the instinct ranked A that is better than midora by feat

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Because the chiron you talk have litteraly clairvoyance and true eye mind that allow this


It works as a danger-avoidance ability, that utilizes all of his combat experience to predict an opponent’s actions and change the situation in his favor. Even in the direst of situations, Chiron can calmly analyze the conditions of a battle and his opponent's capabilities to reach the optimal course of action, considering every possibility, even if his chance of victory is only 1%.

When combined with his Eye of the Mind (True), it even allows for future sight in his case.

How does that effect her dodging an arrow from him? It says its a danger avoidance ability, so it seems purely defensive. How does Mordred blocking an arrow shot from him mean anything to his Clairvoyance and True Eye Mind if they're meant to defend him? It's not like he saw into the future and shot an arrow into the future at her or something, him having these abilities means nothing for people blocking a single arrow shot unless he was directly controlling that arrow.

She didn't predict something of same tier as Deku, predicted something of better tier as are the arrow from Chirion, and the mist of Jack not only block sight but sense in general.

What does the arrow being from Chiron matter though? He can't control his normal arrows can he? Only his Noble Phantasm does that from what I remember. And what senses does Jack's mist block? Because if it doesn't block instinct, it wouldn't block Danger Sense either, so I don't see how Deku couldn't replicate this feat in similar circumstances.

Bevause she by feat have avoid atk by someone that litteraly do better than his danger sense?

In a defenisve setting. How do either of the abilities you listed effect arrows he's already shot? That's like saying that blocking a bataraang from Batman means you're comparable to him in intelligence.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Didn't she only do mortal damage to Artoria due to striking after already practically dying? And even then, wasn't that alive Mordred and Artoria? Did Artoria even have Instinct A in that case? It feels like you're trying to scale her own instinct to Artoria's, which would just make it A-rank in that case wouldn't it?

And, again, that doesn't stop Blackwhip or him avoiding her own attacks. Nor does it let her hit him while he's in the air without jumping at him.

 

[Regidian]

How does that effect her dodging an arrow from him? It says its a danger avoidance ability, so it seems purely defensive. How does Mordred blocking an arrow shot from him mean anything to his Clairvoyance and True Eye Mind if they're meant to defend him? It's not like he saw into the future and shot an arrow into the future at her or something, him having these abilities means nothing for people blocking a single arrow shot unless he was directly controlling that arrow.


What does the arrow being from Chiron matter though? He can't control his normal arrows can he? Only his Noble Phantasm does that from what I remember. And what senses does Jack's mist block? Because if it doesn't block instinct, it wouldn't block Danger Sense either, so I don't see how Deku couldn't replicate this feat in similar circumstances.


In a defenisve setting. How do either of the abilities you listed effect arrows he's already shot? That's like saying that blocking a bataraang from Batman means you're comparable to him in intelligence.

Not like he can show the futur

Last phrase of the text "allow him to have future sight"

? Defensively when he litteraly use clairvoyance for shoot his arrow? Avoing danger is one of the application it litteral talk about many applications and you try to use one to stop all the other bruh

A skill reflecting exceptional eyesight is used for scouting areas for enemies as well as supplementing the use of ranged weapons at long distances, doubling as a must-have ability for those of the Archer Class. At higher ranks, users of this skill can even acquire other perception abilities such as future sight and the ability to see through objects.



Jack mist can block servant instinct lower than B

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Not like he can show the futur



? Defensively when he litteraly use clairvoyance for shoot his arrow? Avoing danger is one of the application it litteral talk about many applications and you try to use one to stop all the other bruh

A skill reflecting exceptional eyesight is used for scouting areas for enemies as well as supplementing the use of ranged weapons at long distances, doubling as a must-have ability for those of the Archer Class. At higher ranks, users of this skill can even acquire other perception abilities such as future sight and the ability to see through objects.



Jack mist can block servant instinct lower than B

Literally none of Chiron's future sight matters to the arrows he shoots though. If he shoots an arrow, it is just an arrow on a set course, he can't have the arrow just do anything he wants. He can't erase the danger of an arrow just cause he perfectly judges where it is going to land.

So the mist didn't even matter to Mordred? Why is it used as a feat anyway then if Mordred specifically counters it?

 

[Regidian]

Didn't she only do mortal damage to Artoria due to striking after already practically dying? And even then, wasn't that alive Mordred and Artoria? Did Artoria even have Instinct A in that case? It feels like you're trying to scale her own instinct to Artoria's, which would just make it A-rank in that case wouldn't it?

And, again, that doesn't stop Blackwhip or him avoiding her own attacks. Nor does it let her hit him while he's in the air without jumping at him.

Skill litteraly came from their real self, and servant arturia in fsn/fz is alive arturia it's like the basic plot.

Actually she do damage to Artutia before arturia greatly damage her

Still doesn't why you try to jse blackwhip when she litteraly cancel this quirck.

Him hit will not that damage because mana burst allow the defense to be up by several order and she have regen + just can transform her into spiritual form to avoid it

At Rank A, even a stick can become a weapon of great power. A normal weapon that is not on the level of a divine Mystery can be destroyed in one blow. Can also raise one's defense several times over

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

• Enhanced Senses: Servants have extremely good senses, being able to sense other Servants even when they are out of sight.
• Extrasensory Perception: Servants normally can sense souls even when they are very far away.

The mist of Jack work even against servants that for default have this 'Magi and Servants need to employ B-rank or higher magecraft or Instinct to escape'. That's why the mist of Jack is better than the mist of Deku.

 

[Regidian]

Literally none of Chiron's future sight matters to the arrows he shoots though. If he shoots an arrow, it is just an arrow on a set course, he can't have the arrow just do anything he wants. He can't erase the danger of an arrow just cause he perfectly judges where it is going to land.

So the mist didn't even matter to Mordred? Why is it used as a feat anyway then if Mordred specifically counters it?

It matter since he can litteraly tell where she will be In advance because if his futur sight bruh + true eye of mind that allow him to see all of her possibke action before shooting

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@Regi

Where does it show Mordred vs Artoria’s full fight? Because all we see is Excalibur gets knocked away before Saber runs her through with the only actual damage coming after Saber turned her back on an enemy that was gonna be dead before she hit the ground.

 

[Regidian]

@Regi

Where does it show Mordred vs Artoria’s full fight? Because all we see is Excalibur gets knocked away before Saber runs her through with the only actual damage coming after Saber turned her back on an enemy that was gonna be dead before she hit the ground.

We don't but the only time arturia do the big damage is with rhongo in that battle and if i' mright we have too a description in garden if avalon for the fight

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Skill litteraly came from their real self, and servant arturia in fsn/fz is alive arturia it's like the basic plot.

Actually she do damage to Artutia before arturia greatly damage her

Still doesn't why you try to jse blackwhip when she litteraly cancel this quirck.

Him hit will not that damage because mana burst allow the defense to be up by several order and she have regen + just can transform her into spiritual form to avoid it

At Rank A, even a stick can become a weapon of great power. A normal weapon that is not on the level of a divine Mystery can be destroyed in one blow. Can also raise one's defense several times over

Where is Artoria ever shown in pain vs Mordred? Most we ever see is her bat away a single attack before getting one shot?

Why would she cancel Blackwhip? It isn’t magic or anything, it’s literally a genetic part of him like an arm. If she cancels one quirk she cancels all of them.

Mordred going into spirit form and back out sounds heavily out of character, why would she do that? Isn’t she a proud knight that takes fights head on? And he can predict her mana burst, as I keep saying. He is 3x stronger than her, so unless mana burst has a definitive multiplier, it is not making her suddenly capable of beating him.

• Enhanced Senses: Servants have extremely good senses, being able to sense other Servants even when they are out of sight.
• Extrasensory Perception: Servants normally can sense souls even when they are very far away.

The mist of Jack work even against servants that for default have this 'Magi and Servants need to employ B-rank or higher magecraft or Instinct to escape'. That's why the mist of Jack is better than the mist of Deku.

I already said his smokescreen is countered. We’re arguing precog and how she even gets to Deku considering flight + higher range + ranged grappling.

It matter since he can litteraly tell where she will be In advance because if his futur sight bruh + true eye of mind that allow him to see all of her possibke action before shooting

That doesn’t matter to arrows he’s already shot. Unless he surpasses precognition, and specifically aimed that arrow with all his future sight and magic to be a sure hit, her blocking a single already launched arrows doesn’t matter. You’re acting like she has True Minds Eye or something for blocking an arrow he can’t telekinetically control. The fact that she’s inferior to Artoria, who’s Instinct isn’t on the level of Chiron’s clairvoyance + Minds Eye, should already tell you that her blocking that arrow is nota future seeing feat.

Danger Sense detects imminent crisis or danger before they happen. It alerts him of direction as well. There is no attack Mordred can direct at him that won’t radiate danger. His precog is on her level from that alone, as Danger Sense is always active, so every single movement and attack from her will be detected before they happen. That is the BASE quirk. It is further amplified by Deku’s analytical prediction, which allows him to do incredibly precise calculations of his opponents, and lets him predict them even easier the longer he fights them.

I don’t see how Deku doesn’t either eventually grab Mordred with Blackwhip after avoiding her attacks or takes away Clarent. Her only hope of hitting him is Mana Bursting her speed, which is directly countered by his own precog, or hitting him with full power Noble Phantasm, which is ridiculously easy to see when she’s going to do it.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Where is Artoria ever shown in pain vs Mordred? Most we ever see is her bat away a single attack before getting one shot?

Why would she cancel Blackwhip? It isn’t magic or anything, it’s literally a genetic part of him like an arm. If she cancels one quirk she cancels all of them.

Mordred going into spirit form and back out sounds heavily out of character, why would she do that? Isn’t she a proud knight that takes fights head on? And he can predict her mana burst, as I keep saying. He is 3x stronger than her, so unless mana burst has a definitive multiplier, it is not making her suddenly capable of beating him.



I already said his smokescreen is countered. We’re arguing precog and how she even gets to Deku considering flight + higher range + ranged grappling.


That doesn’t matter to arrows he’s already shot. Unless he surpasses precognition, and specifically aimed that arrow with all his future sight and magic to be a sure hit, her blocking a single already launched arrows doesn’t matter. You’re acting like she has True Minds Eye or something for blocking an arrow he can’t telekinetically control. The fact that she’s inferior to Artoria, who’s Instinct isn’t on the level of Chiron’s clairvoyance + Minds Eye, should already tell you that her blocking that arrow is nota future seeing feat.

Danger Sense detects imminent crisis or danger before they happen. It alerts him of direction as well. There is no attack Mordred can direct at him that won’t radiate danger. His precog is on her level from that alone, as Danger Sense is always active, so every single movement and attack from her will be detected before they happen. That is the BASE quirk. It is further amplified by Deku’s analytical prediction, which allows him to do incredibly precise calculations of his opponents, and lets him predict them even easier the longer he fights them.

I don’t see how Deku doesn’t either eventually grab Mordred with Blackwhip after avoiding her attacks or takes away Clarent. Her only hope of hitting him is Mana Bursting her speed, which is directly countered by his own precog, or hitting him with full power Noble Phantasm, which is ridiculously easy to see when she’s going to do it.

The point of why Blackwhip is cancelled it's because they aren't the punchs of deku, they are outside from his body so they are cancelled, the reason as to why continue the argument of Deku hurting Mo-chan was because she can cancel the punch itself. And with this description of Mana Burst that Reigo put: 'At Rank A, even a stick can become a weapon of great power. A normal weapon that is not on the level of a divine Mystery can be destroyed in one blow. Can also raise one's defense several times over' I think it's safe to assume that the amp is really great. There are various servants who can flight: Medea, Medusa with Pegasu, Astolfo with his Hippo, Iskandar with his Chariot, Karna, Gilgamesh with Vimana, Ishtar, Enkidu, Quetz with pterosaur, etc. and even against them something like Clarent Blood Arthur is still a treat. Flight don't mean that Deku can dodge Clarent Blood Arthur, even less if Clarent can move while relaising (thing that seems happen against the Balgumg of Siegfried).

 

[Regidian]

Where is Artoria ever shown in pain vs Mordred? Most we ever see is her bat away a single attack before getting one shot?

Why would she cancel Blackwhip? It isn’t magic or anything, it’s literally a genetic part of him like an arm. If she cancels one quirk she cancels all of them.

Mordred going into spirit form and back out sounds heavily out of character, why would she do that? Isn’t she a proud knight that takes fights head on? And he can predict her mana burst, as I keep saying. He is 3x stronger than her, so unless mana burst has a definitive multiplier, it is not making her suddenly capable of beating him.



I already said his smokescreen is countered. We’re arguing precog and how she even gets to Deku considering flight + higher range + ranged grappling.


That doesn’t matter to arrows he’s already shot. Unless he surpasses precognition, and specifically aimed that arrow with all his future sight and magic to be a sure hit, her blocking a single already launched arrows doesn’t matter. You’re acting like she has True Minds Eye or something for blocking an arrow he can’t telekinetically control. The fact that she’s inferior to Artoria, who’s Instinct isn’t on the level of Chiron’s clairvoyance + Minds Eye, should already tell you that her blocking that arrow is nota future seeing feat.

Danger Sense detects imminent crisis or danger before they happen. It alerts him of direction as well. There is no attack Mordred can direct at him that won’t radiate danger. His precog is on her level from that alone, as Danger Sense is always active, so every single movement and attack from her will be detected before they happen. That is the BASE quirk. It is further amplified by Deku’s analytical prediction, which allows him to do incredibly precise calculations of his opponents, and lets him predict them even easier the longer he fights them.

I don’t see how Deku doesn’t either eventually grab Mordred with Blackwhip after avoiding her attacks or takes away Clarent. Her only hope of hitting him is Mana Bursting her speed, which is directly countered by his own precog, or hitting him with full power Noble Phantasm, which is ridiculously easy to see when she’s going to do it.

Don't need to show in pain + the litteral first description of her mana burst is allow her to battle equally with king lf knight.

Why you still with magic when i have prove that it's not only based on magic? Mystic eyes are genetic part, same for beast power. MR doesn't cancel physical supernatural power like stat amp etc the rets it does.

Proud knight> personnality of Mordred is litteraly she don't like that aspect lol, predict her mana burst will not allow him to defend against it.

For the multiplier it was allowing arturia who by herself have only average strengh when she was human to fight countless ennemy that have big feat of strengh (like all the other knight of the round) a'd if you ask the description of mordred mana burst is litteraly do be equal as mana burst arturia

While he/she herself possesses average physical strength, he/she managed to defeat countless enemies by strengthening all of his/her actions with his/her excessive magical energy.

I don't see the prob as she don't restrict the benediction of lion king she can spamm her NP and she have higher range with it

Don't understand this part when the lore and description of skill litteraly contradict you? Why he would need to telekinesis his arrow ? When he litteraly futur sight every of his shot he surpasse the normal precognition as he can litteraly see the futur a little and can see and know every possible action that the ennemy can do before his shot. It litteraly tell that how he do thing bruh

... Instinct is know to be supperior to normal clairvoyance and eye if mind.... Arturia instinct litteraly allow her to predict a atck that bymass causality and an atk that transcende space/time and dexterity...


What you tell is basically what dl instinct, instinct is an always active skill and compared to him, she have alredy fight being that do that and ave countered some of them.

And i don't see how she not just clarent spamm him + he have praticaly no endurance and he wouldn't be able to take away clarent as he clearly lack skill in fron of her

 

[Mickey1940]

Deku has 2 Low 7B keys

if U.A. Beginnings Saga Deku is used:
Mordred stomps. Deku is 3.91 Megatons, while Mordred is casually 1.9 megatons, possibly higher since Saber of Red is considered one of the strongest Servants to fight in Fate/Apocrypha, possibly even higher with Mana Burst. Although Deku has the AP advantage, he has absolutely no way of putting Mordred down for good. Double AP is nice and all, but considering his MASSIVE skill disadvantage, Mordred's precog, and the fact that his arm would be on the verge of exploding if he did anything, even if he lands a blow, it wouldn't be enough to put Mordred down before she 1 shots with anything.

If Joint Training Deku is used:
Mordred wins for the same reasons as before, it's just not a stomp since Deku's AP is now nearly 3 times higher

Either way, Mordred should outlast 100% long enough to land the single decisive blow she needs to kill him

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Deku has 2 Low 7B keys

if U.A. Beginnings Saga Deku is used:
Mordred stomps. Deku is 3.91 Megatons, while Mordred is casually 1.9 megatons, possibly higher since Saber of Red is considered one of the strongest Servants to fight in Fate/Apocrypha, possibly even higher with Mana Burst. Although Deku has the AP advantage, he has absolutely no way of putting Mordred down for good. Double AP is nice and all, but considering his MASSIVE skill disadvantage, Mordred's precog, and the fact that his arm would be on the verge of exploding if he did anything, even if he lands a blow, it wouldn't be enough to put Mordred down before she 1 shots with anything.

If Joint Training Deku is used:
Mordred wins for the same reasons as before, it's just not a stomp since Deku's AP is now nearly 3 times higher

Either way, Mordred should outlast 100% long enough to land the single decisive blow she needs to kill him

The OP says it’s SBA? As in using strongest forms? This is clearly his Paranormal Liberation War key where he can use 100% dozens of times and has the quirks from within One For All, not his keys where he can’t use it for long. Please read the arguments before assuming, you’re practically weighing in on a completely separate debate.

Will respond to these other two in a while, college life.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Will respond to these other two in a while, college life.

Honestly better that way because I also need to do things so I can now be more focused in that.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Hi, fate knowledgeable here.

Quirks are considered to be purely physical functions and don't have mystery associated with them. I see no way for him to hurt her at all.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Hi, fate knowledgeable here.

Quirks are considered to be purely physical functions and don't have mystery associated with them. I see no way for him to hurt her at all.

That was talked in the beginning and in the end because OFA was more or less decided to have certain level of mystery because be a power that have countered AFO who have more than 100 years, using that he could affect servants (though to a what extent he could affect with his level of mystery is otherr thing).

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

It was talked about, yes. The explanation doesn't make any sense. Quirks aren't from any supernatural source, and 100 years ago in fate you have shit like Thomas Edison who was outright destroying mystery with his inventions, or sherlock holmes which the world specifically had to nerf to stop him from getting rid of mystery. I see no reason why Izuku's punches would have the mystery necessary to get the job done.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

It was talked about, yes. The explanation doesn't make any sense. Quirks aren't from any supernatural source, and 100 years ago in fate you have shit like Thomas Edison who was outright destroying mystery with his inventions, or sherlock holmes which the world specifically had to nerf to stop him from getting rid of mystery. I see no reason why Izuku's punches would have the mystery necessary to get the job done.

Does Deku being from the future effect his mystery in any way? Because he isn’t modern day, 200 years ago to him was present day for us.

I want to know if this entire debate is a waste of energy or not.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Just being from the future explicitly doesn't give mystery. In fact, IIRC the opposite is true as the further into the future humanity gets, the less mystery there is.

 

[Mickey1940]

The OP says it’s SBA? As in using strongest forms? This is clearly his Paranormal Liberation War key where he can use 100% dozens of times and has the quirks from within One For All, not his keys where he can’t use it for long. Please read the arguments before assuming, you’re practically weighing in on a completely separate debate.

Will respond to these other two in a while, college life.

My point still stands even if you use Izuku at his strongest

Izuku can't 1 shot Mordred without her 1 shotting him right back

 

[XxMordredXx3000]

so, can we have conclusion for the battle here?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

There are several things that are being overlooked in this battle I feel, or are being blown out of proportion or not given enough context. The main things I am having issue with is the degree of amp that Mordred's Mana Burst gives her and the potency of her Instinct. My issues are as follows:

1. Mordred is not at all comparable to Artoria when it comes to Instinct. I can't recall a single feat or statement that implies she is, nor that she has any particular future seeing ability. The arguments that because she blocked a single arrow from Chiron meaning that she has future sight or something are strange to me, as there is no reason that should be the case on arrows that he has already launched and can't control. Unless it's stated specifically that Chiron shot that arrow and the future he saw was Mordred not blocking it, I don't see how that feat contributes to the conversation.

Furthermore, the belief that Mordred was equal to Artoria is strange since to my knowledge we never got a full battle between them, and the most we saw was Mordred striking out after already basically dying in one hit. Beyond even that, attempting to bring up Artoria blocking Gae Bolg is absolutely ridiculous, considering the difference in stats between her and Artoria, which is something that I feel is being intentionally ignored.

Artoria has Rank B Luck when Shirou is her master, compared to Mordred having Rank D luck. Luck in Fate seems to be an actually quantifiable fate deciding thing, and Artoria's luck directly contributed to her blocking the Gae Bolg. In fact, Artoria didn't even fully block the Gae Bolg, she was still wounded and just avoided the instant death part of it. It was a combination of her luck, which is higher than Mordred's, and her Instinct A, which is higher than Mordred's and can actually see the future. Attempting to say Mordred can replicate that feat, despite having worse versions of the two things that allowed Artoria to accomplish that feat, is a gross overestimation of her skills. Essentially, there is absolutely no way to scale her Instinct to Artoria's Instinct or to Chiron's Clairvoyance + Minds Eye. Therefore, we should go off her feats alone, which seems to simply be giving her vague senses of danger and lowering visibility penalties, both of which Deku's own Precog does, if not to a higher degree because it is permanently active and further amplified by his own intelligence and prediction skills/feats.

2. The Mana Burst arguments seem especially strange to me. From what I'm gathering, there is no definitive multiplier for Mana Burst, and it just operates as a burst of power, speed or defense. It is for this reason people, for some reason, believe it completely nullifies Deku's precog or his 3x stat advantage, despite nothing implying either. I've yet to see any actual examples of Mordred's Mana Burst in action, and it seems like it's main usage is just letting her use mini versions of her full power Clarent.

Sudden bursts of speed that are predicted with precognition, and performing them against a character like Deku that can avoid attacks from people faster than him by reading their movements, on top of the only way for her to get hits on him is to reach his height since he's flying, doesn't sound like such an advantage to me. This is compounded by the fact that she doesn't seem to be able to use Instinct offensively and predict where he's going to move at any point in time, despite my opposition saying she can, but with no evidence supporting it. Anytime she uses a Mana Burst, what stops Deku from dodging her since he has permanently active defensive precognition?

Mana Burst is not going to let her one shot Deku either. He is 3x her in durability, and has a pain tolerance so high that nothing short of instantaneous death would make him unable to defend himself, similar to Mordred's own Battle Continuation. I don't know why Mickey is acting like Deku's durability isn't also 6.3 megatons, nor that he has several ways of just not getting hurt in the first place, but I feel the stat disadvantage Mordred is at should be recognized further, not just disregarded cause she can unquantifiably amp herself. Unless there is some form of evidence that contradicts what I'm understanding, Mana Burst shouldn't be any issue for Deku's precog skills, and even if she does land hits, they won't be one shotting Deku unless they instantly kill him, which is very doubtful because precog.

3. Deku's versatility and intelligence is being horrendously downplayed. For example, how does Mordred avoid Blackwhip? As I've laid out, her Instinct is not on the level of seeing the future, and at best gives her senses of danger from an opponent while letting her fight with her vision obscured. How does any of that translate to her being able to avoid Deku constantly grabbing at her with Blackwhip, which he can control? Anytime she gets near him and tries to attack, he can simply dodge and grab her or Clarent, with a lifting strength she cannot overcome.

Another facet is his flight, which no one has yet to tell me how she handles other than using her noble phantasm, which he would predict. I feel like people are somehow forgetting Deku has higher ranger than Mordred here? The second he senses danger from her helmet coming off, he’s already capable of backing far away from Mordred and predicting her swinging her sword before she does it.

Also, is everyone ignoring the fact that Deku has ranged attacks as well? And that are more spammable than Mordred's Clarent? He can snipe her from the same distance as her max range Noble Phantasm, and might even do so to interrupt her anytime she attempts to use it since he'll sense when she's doing it before she does it. He doesn't even need to be far away either, if he's closer to Mordred, he can toss her all around with the air pressure of his attacks while keeping up his attempts to bind her with Blackwhip.

She can't block his direct attacks, because then he'll bind her sword with Blackwhip. She can't use her Noble Phantasm reliably, because he can sense when she's going to do it and can either fly far enough that avoiding it is easy or interrupt her with air pressure or Blackwhip. Her instinct is purely defensive, and she has no feats that suggest she can keep up with Deku's own analytical prediction when he tries to grapple her. Her mana burst is an unquantifiable amp, and therefore should not be banked on to be able to one shot Deku or speed blitz him unless there are feats for it that I am missing.

Every tool that has been brought up for Mordred is one that I have addressed or raised an argument against. If I am missing anything, I will be glad to hear my oppositions thoughts on the matter. From what I can see, Deku just eternally dodges with his precog and flight before eventually catching Mordred with Blackwhip because her Instinct doesn't have the feats to suggest she can avoid them forever.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

That's all cool and shit, but he can't hurt her because Servant invulnerability. This is a stomp.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Also, I just watched Mordred vs Chiron, and where is it even implied that she is superior to his future sight? The best cases from that encounter I see is her dodging his already shot arrows and him intentionally letting her get a hit on him to flip her on her back. She even FAILS to block some of his arrows, and gets more pissed off the longer she fights him, until he eventually just goes away. It looked like Instinct only let her block his attacks to a certain degree, not let her just completely disassemble his future sight, especially when he seems very casual with the encounter.

Is there any implication that, with his future sight, Chiron is seeing Mordred actually die from his attacks? Or is he just using it to line up perfectly calculated shots on her, which she dodges due to Instinct? Those two things are very different and telling of Mordred's abilities.

That's all cool and shit, but he can't hurt her because Servant invulnerability. This is a stomp.

Literally the entire reason I'm saying any of this is under the impression he can hurt her due to low mystery.

If he can't hurt her, then yes, the fight is irrelevant. I've said that multiple times and have been trying to get an answer as to why for a while now, and no one seems to have a definitive answer.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Does Deku have the mystery to hurt her or no.

More than one person needs to chime in on this, because we have conflicting answers.

 

[Loyd]

Alot of words i respect the passion

If his attacks arent supernatural then no iirc

 

[Regidian]

Also, I just watched Mordred vs Chiron, and where is it even implied that she is superior to his future sight? The best cases from that encounter I see is her dodging his already shot arrows and him intentionally letting her get a hit on him to flip her on her back. She even FAILS to block some of his arrows, and gets more pissed off the longer she fights him, until he eventually just goes away. It looked like Instinct only let her block his attacks to a certain degree, not let her just completely disassemble his future sight, especially when he seems very casual with the encounter.

Is there any implication that, with his future sight, Chiron is seeing Mordred actually die from his attacks? Or is he just using it to line up perfectly calculated shots on her, which she dodges due to Instinct? Those two things are very different and telling of Mordred's abilities.


Literally the entire reason I'm saying any of this is under the impression he can hurt her due to low mystery.

If he can't hurt her, then yes, the fight is irrelevant. I've said that multiple times and have been trying to get an answer as to why for a while now, and no one seems to have a definitive answer.

It was not mordred vs chiron bruh it was in mordred vs jack with chiron Shooting at mordred

And yes for chiron litteraly use his futur sight for every orf his shoot now it's you to prove why he would magically not do it at mordred

 

[Kingofwolves999]

It was not mordred vs chiron bruh it was in mordred vs jack with chiron Shooting at mordred

And yes for chiron litteraly use his futur sight for every orf his shoot now it's you to prove why he would magically not do it at mordred

My post is irrelevant, we need to know if he can hurt her in the first place or not.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Alot of words i respect the passion

If his attacks arent supernatural then no iirc

Quirks are genetic mutations of humans and Deku is 200 years in the future. If that doesn't count as supernatural, then no.

Either quirks are supernatural, or they're the equivalent of asking if an Albino person can harm servants.

 

[Regidian]

There are several things that are being overlooked in this battle I feel, or are being blown out of proportion or not given enough context. The main things I am having issue with is the degree of amp that Mordred's Mana Burst gives her and the potency of her Instinct. My issues are as follows:

1. Mordred is not at all comparable to Artoria when it comes to Instinct. I can't recall a single feat or statement that implies she is, nor that she has any particular future seeing ability. The arguments that because she blocked a single arrow from Chiron meaning that she has future sight or something are strange to me, as there is no reason that should be the case on arrows that he has already launched and can't control. Unless it's stated specifically that Chiron shot that arrow and the future he saw was Mordred not blocking it, I don't see how that feat contributes to the conversation.

Furthermore, the belief that Mordred was equal to Artoria is strange since to my knowledge we never got a full battle between them, and the most we saw was Mordred striking out after already basically dying in one hit. Beyond even that, attempting to bring up Artoria blocking Gae Bolg is absolutely ridiculous, considering the difference in stats between her and Artoria, which is something that I feel is being intentionally ignored.

Artoria has Rank B Luck when Shirou is her master, compared to Mordred having Rank D luck. Luck in Fate seems to be an actually quantifiable fate deciding thing, and Artoria's luck directly contributed to her blocking the Gae Bolg. In fact, Artoria didn't even fully block the Gae Bolg, she was still wounded and just avoided the instant death part of it. It was a combination of her luck, which is higher than Mordred's, and her Instinct A, which is higher than Mordred's and can actually see the future. Attempting to say Mordred can replicate that feat, despite having worse versions of the two things that allowed Artoria to accomplish that feat, is a gross overestimation of her skills. Essentially, there is absolutely no way to scale her Instinct to Artoria's Instinct or to Chiron's Clairvoyance + Minds Eye. Therefore, we should go off her feats alone, which seems to simply be giving her vague senses of danger and lowering visibility penalties, both of which Deku's own Precog does, if not to a higher degree because it is permanently active and further amplified by his own intelligence and prediction skills/feats.

2. The Mana Burst arguments seem especially strange to me. From what I'm gathering, there is no definitive multiplier for Mana Burst, and it just operates as a burst of power, speed or defense. It is for this reason people, for some reason, believe it completely nullifies Deku's precog or his 3x stat advantage, despite nothing implying either. I've yet to see any actual examples of Mordred's Mana Burst in action, and it seems like it's main usage is just letting her use mini versions of her full power Clarent.

Sudden bursts of speed that are predicted with precognition, and performing them against a character like Deku that can avoid attacks from people faster than him by reading their movements, on top of the only way for her to get hits on him is to reach his height since he's flying, doesn't sound like such an advantage to me. This is compounded by the fact that she doesn't seem to be able to use Instinct offensively and predict where he's going to move at any point in time, despite my opposition saying she can, but with no evidence supporting it. Anytime she uses a Mana Burst, what stops Deku from dodging her since he has permanently active defensive precognition?

Mana Burst is not going to let her one shot Deku either. He is 3x her in durability, and has a pain tolerance so high that nothing short of instantaneous death would make him unable to defend himself, similar to Mordred's own Battle Continuation. I don't know why Mickey is acting like Deku's durability isn't also 6.3 megatons, nor that he has several ways of just not getting hurt in the first place, but I feel the stat disadvantage Mordred is at should be recognized further, not just disregarded cause she can unquantifiably amp herself. Unless there is some form of evidence that contradicts what I'm understanding, Mana Burst shouldn't be any issue for Deku's precog skills, and even if she does land hits, they won't be one shotting Deku unless they instantly kill him, which is very doubtful because precog.

3. Deku's versatility and intelligence is being horrendously downplayed. For example, how does Mordred avoid Blackwhip? As I've laid out, her Instinct is not on the level of seeing the future, and at best gives her senses of danger from an opponent while letting her fight with her vision obscured. How does any of that translate to her being able to avoid Deku constantly grabbing at her with Blackwhip, which he can control? Anytime she gets near him and tries to attack, he can simply dodge and grab her or Clarent, with a lifting strength she cannot overcome.

Another facet is his flight, which no one has yet to tell me how she handles other than using her noble phantasm, which he would predict. I feel like people are somehow forgetting Deku has higher ranger than Mordred here? The second he senses danger from her helmet coming off, he’s already capable of backing far away from Mordred and predicting her swinging her sword before she does it.

Also, is everyone ignoring the fact that Deku has ranged attacks as well? And that are more spammable than Mordred's Clarent? He can snipe her from the same distance as her max range Noble Phantasm, and might even do so to interrupt her anytime she attempts to use it since he'll sense when she's doing it before she does it. He doesn't even need to be far away either, if he's closer to Mordred, he can toss her all around with the air pressure of his attacks while keeping up his attempts to bind her with Blackwhip.

She can't block his direct attacks, because then he'll bind her sword with Blackwhip. She can't use her Noble Phantasm reliably, because he can sense when she's going to do it and can either fly far enough that avoiding it is easy or interrupt her with air pressure or Blackwhip. Her instinct is purely defensive, and she has no feats that suggest she can keep up with Deku's own analytical prediction when he tries to grapple her. Her mana burst is an unquantifiable amp, and therefore should not be banked on to be able to one shot Deku or speed blitz him unless there are feats for it that I am missing.

Every tool that has been brought up for Mordred is one that I have addressed or raised an argument against. If I am missing anything, I will be glad to hear my oppositions thoughts on the matter. From what I can see, Deku just eternally dodges with his precog and flight before eventually catching Mordred with Blackwhip because her Instinct doesn't have the feats to suggest she can avoid them forever.

Alredy answer forir the first,


For the second the litteral description of her mana burst is that, you can cry much yiu want about it, it will never change.

With this, she is able to fight equally with the King of Knights.


Thx to not even knowing the base of vn fate, the avoid of arturia to gae bolg was not due only about her stat luck but because she had preco it.

Litteraly show the description of mana burst telling that it's allow arturia to boost exeptionnaly her strengh and that it up to serveral time their durability?

Are you litteraly telling that the material are not good for you?

Instinct is litteraly a combat type skill xhat the **** you even tell? It's litteraly the ability to identify the best personal course lf action during battle

Instinct is the ability to instantly identify “the best personal course of action” during combat. Because this Skill allows for the prediction of trajectory, it is possible to avoid attacks from firearms.

 

[Regidian]

I hate people like you that ignore litteral description of skill and material just for your own pleasure

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Quirks are genetic mutations of humans and Deku is 200 years in the future. If that doesn't count as supernatural, then no.

Either quirks are supernatural, or they're the equivalent of asking if an Albino person can harm servants.

Speaking of, what does the "200 years in the future" thing mean, I can't find anything about that on the MHA wiki or this site.

I hate people like you that ignore litteral description of skill and material just for your own pleasure

There's no need to be so hostile.