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Monster Hunter General Discussion Thread.

DMUA said:
Well like, the entire appeal is biological mechanisms for almost they do down to the seemingly magical abilities (the sacs providing their elemental attacks or even levitation in Amatsu, Narwa and Ibushi's case), this just seems strange, and it's not like it's the first time a guidebook has given information that makes no sense (blue scoutflies being for Elder Dragon level monsters, to which neither Deviljho nor Rajang possess such a thing)

Throwing a meteor that happens to be from a star is another deal than outright subverting a more sensible option like parasitic eggs over biologically distorting an entire creature by force (which is the direct reason for several different monsters being sent into a state of constant agony, like Chaotic Gore Magala, even)
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Gore is classed as a "???" type monster for a reason. Its strange for sure but that is entirely Gore's thing of being an outlier to nature.
 
JoshSSJGod said:
Yeah I understand that sentiment but we do have to remember that at the end of the day that this is a supernatural verse with plenty of monsters doing stuff that can't really be explained.
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Indeed, it is true that Monster Hunter is ultimately supernatural! However, I think it's worth discussing the difference between realistic and grounded.

Some supernatural fantasy settings can still be more grounded and believable than others based on the rules and restrictions it chooses. If Monster Hunter decided that humans could use magic to teleport or transform into monsters, then sure, you could defend it by saying that it has always been a supernatural series. But I'd hope that you and I agree the same defense wouldn't hold up because it's against how the setting has normally grounded itself!

To frame the difference, you can see that Nen in Hunter x Hunter follows a strict set of rules and stipulations that bolster the identity of the power system, whereas Gandalf and Tom Bombadil can sort of do whatever they do with magic and it doesn't warrant explanation, because that's a choice that series has made. The choice Monster Hunter made from its very first game is that design evokes behavior and that the beating heart of its supernatural fantasy is real-world ecology and biology.

For example:
  • Kaiju-sized monsters move slowly, as one would expect from large animals in our world - Lao-Shan Lung and Zorah don't spring around the place or do gymnastics on the hunter, they lumber along like you'd expect a huge-ass animal to.
  • Kushala Daora, an elder dragon and hence an outlier to nature, molts its skin when growing, and it's said that over time its shell will increasingly skeletonize until it expires, analogous to how in our world molting becomes increasingly nutritionally expensive until the animal itself can't continue.
  • Anjanath has a pair of sails not simply to look cool, but to intimidate rivals and regulate its internal body temperature, especially given its fire breath and the relatively warm environments in which it roams. The quills on its tail and its nose crest also help with enlarging its silhouette.
Now look at Gore Magala. What about its design tells you that it's born from a Barnos or a Deviljho? A Congalala? A Najarala? Its uniform design speaks nothing of the supposed origin that it has transformed from an entirely different species of creature (to the point where the original creature may not even have bones in the case of Carapaceans), and there are no species in this world that can biologically transform another animal into one of itself. Sure, parasites like toxoplasma gondii and brain-affecting fungi exist, but those were already paralleled by the Magala's original reproductive lore and the Frenzy Virus.

Like no amount of realism can explain a kaiju sized Snake dropping meteors at people at MFTL+ speeds for example.
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I also think it's important to differentiate gameplay justifications from ecological lore.

Unrealistic fantasy behaviors shown in gameplay like bringing down meteors or flinging tornadoes from one's mouth can afford to be looser in the lore, as in these cases the stronger driving force behind its design is the need to craft compelling and sometimes spectacular fights. In these cases, it's understandable to sacrifice a bit of their design philosophy to justify gameplay!

In contrast, you have ecological lore; information given that doesn't rely on gameplay and is purely made to flesh out the world. This includes monster reproduction and most things included in these side materials. You don't have the media restriction of a video game to dilute the decision-making process, hence I believe that these lore bits should be held to the series' ecological standards more rigorously. This particular lore bit didn't hinge on anything related to gameplay aside from maybe their attachment to its ??? classification, meaning that it falls in the latter category rather than the former.

To me, this feels a lot like they thought it sounded cool and just didn't think it out. Where's the Fanged Beast Gore Magala? The Bird Wyvern Gore Magala? We've had five games with Gore Magala in it and not once have we ever heard this before. And yet we've been given huge amounts of lore related to every member of the Magala lineage - arguably more so than even the likes of Diablos or the Raths, but this odd statement has so many fundamental implications on the behavior and physiology of the species that it not only dilutes the grounded rules that this series has set for itself but softly contradicts the veracity of what we have always seen the species do.

Overall, I think the abruptness of this revelation - an overturning of knowledge regarding Gore Magala, which was (despite its mysterious pedigree) previously held to be rock-solid, even a pillar of the series' design philosophy - is part of why so many people are talking about it. It's just so strange and offputting given the relatively steady understanding we (in a meta sense and tbh in-world as well) already knew about the species. Coupled with the fact that it's literally just one sentence and is not further elaborated upon, you get all kinds of theorizing and hair-pulling. And memes. The Animorphs one sends me.

Cases like this are generally in the minority, and one could still argue that it is the Monster Hunter world's supernatural analogy to the ecological strategy of parasitoid egg-laying in our world, which I imagine is what they were going for (even though the previous lore, as DMUA has said, was exactly that). But I believe that this retcon does more bad than good for the series' design philosophy and indicates a turning of design standards away from the roots of the series. I guess that inherently isn't a bad thing - adapt or die and all - but I guess that's where fact becomes opinion, and mine is the way it is.
 
So who all voted on Capcom's Best Monster Poll? I voted for my boy Stygian Zinogre.
 
Noticed this thread before but felt too busy with with actual games and other stuff to comment, however been getting back into Sunbreak since the announcement of Wilds and finally wanted to see if I can do anything to add to the verse here.

I see no mention of say Afflicted and Risen keys for Monsters and Elder Dragons nor pages for the companions like Fiorayne, is anyone going to be adding or working on them? Cause if not I could make them or add them

Also wanted to ask a question on Wind Serpent Ibushi, is the current rating and justification outdated? If not, shouldn’t the “It’s claws possess the power to destroy a country” statement be for a separate key on the Ibushi encountered in MR given IIRC it is stated to tremendously more powerful than the one the Kamura Hunter fought in base Rise?
 
Afflicted and Risen keys would ultimately just be redundant "this but bigger stat" type of stuff, which I think we should take efforts into avoiding

Pages for companions are more worthwhile but nobody's worked on any kind of page for awhile, especially with the arsenals of Hunters (and the main character specifically) being generally tough to approach
Infinity_Dragon said:
If not, shouldn’t the “It’s claws possess the power to destroy a country” statement be for a separate key on the Ibushi encountered in MR given IIRC it is stated to tremendously more powerful than the one the Kamura Hunter fought in base Rise?
Click to expand...
Yeah statements like that are being fazed out, descriptions for materials and whatnot are chalk full of flowery language from legend rather than being concrete and literal statements
 
DMUA said:
Afflicted and Risen keys would ultimately just be redundant "this but bigger stat" type of stuff, which I think we should take efforts into avoiding

Pages for companions are more worthwhile but nobody's worked on any kind of page for awhile, especially with the arsenals of Hunters (and the main character specifically) being generally tough to approach

Yeah statements like that are being fazed out, descriptions for materials and whatnot are chalk full of flowery language from legend rather than being concrete and literal statements
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Well in the case of Afflicted and Risen. It is more than just a stat boost as they get Quiro hax via being the new host but it would just be bloating as then we should have frenzy keys, Rage-rayed, Black Blighted, etc.
 
I definitely get the point on Afflicted as it would be giving a lot pages the same rating and abilities, that said I think the Risen Elder Dragons would be an acceptable addition to the profiles given its a status only five Monsters have gained and all have official renders.
 
Also why do not all of the profiles that scale to or above Tetranodon have the Class K Calc?
 
So I don't really do much on this site anymore but I did have one random thing to report while playing through MH3U again. When doing the High Rank village quests the Moga Chief remarks that the Ivory Lagiacrus is much stronger than the Ceadeus. Specifically, he says "That Ceadeus you beat? The Ivory Lagiacrus could eat it for breakfast!". I do have a picture of the statement on my phone if I need to share it, but was wondering if this might be a legit statement or a result of translation stuff and not a valid reason to scale Ivory to Ceadeus.
 
GimmyJibbsJr said:
So I don't really do much on this site anymore but I did have one random thing to report while playing through MH3U again. When doing the High Rank village quests the Moga Chief remarks that the Ivory Lagiacrus is much stronger than the Ceadeus. Specifically, he says "That Ceadeus you beat? The Ivory Lagiacrus could eat it for breakfast!". I do have a picture of the statement on my phone if I need to share it, but was wondering if this might be a legit statement or a result of translation stuff and not a valid reason to scale Ivory to Ceadeus.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, that's interesting.
 
GimmyJibbsJr said:
So I don't really do much on this site anymore but I did have one random thing to report while playing through MH3U again. When doing the High Rank village quests the Moga Chief remarks that the Ivory Lagiacrus is much stronger than the Ceadeus. Specifically, he says "That Ceadeus you beat? The Ivory Lagiacrus could eat it for breakfast!". I do have a picture of the statement on my phone if I need to share it, but was wondering if this might be a legit statement or a result of translation stuff and not a valid reason to scale Ivory to Ceadeus.
Click to expand...
Would be good to share!
 
Sigilavox said:
Would be good to share!
Click to expand...
20240421_142152.jpg


I hope this works It has been ions since I've done anything substantial on this website

Anyway I took this picture like almost two months ago and have long since passed and saved over this in-game conversation and don't have any other pictures of it, so oops
 
Do you guys think we can give Raging Brachydios this as an intelligence feat since it deliberately goes out of its way to target a specific spot so that it can change the environment to its favor during a battle?
 
AStrangeverse said:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AStrangeverse/Monster_Hunter:_Rajang_Overhaul

giving the irate ape a makeover
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Great formatting!

XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Also bump.
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I'm not sure myself about this justification. Enabling the "pachinko machine" state does seem to be a choice, but to me Raging Brachydios moving to that spot is a product of it being a set animation, like how monsters will sometimes reposition themselves before turf wars.
 
Sigilavox said:
Great formatting!



I'm not sure myself about this justification. Enabling the "pachinko machine" state does seem to be a choice, but to me Raging Brachydios moving to that spot is a product of it being a set animation, like how monsters will sometimes reposition themselves before turf wars.
Click to expand...
I guess, but it does show it knows exactly what its doing since the end result is specifically for altering the arena.
 
vsbattles.com

I'm bored so have a fix for Kulu-Ya-Ku of all things.

Kulu-Ya-Ku should get Enhanced Senses and a Lifting Strength upgrade from these scans. Also it's intelligence needs to be dropped to High Animalistic instead. It's smart by animal standards since it can use objects as tools and actively avoids raiding the same nests twice in a row to avoid...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
AStrangeverse said:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AStrangeverse/Monster_Hunter:_Rajang_Overhaul

giving the irate ape a makeover
Click to expand...
I think making them High 6-C contingent on enraging is a bit dubious. They still take hits from Deviljho before they enrage and definitely don't get more resilient in a hunt (In fact, their tail becomes more vulnerable after they enrage hard enough) or vastly more damaging. I can't even think of statements about the Rajang being strong that are contingent on it being enraged, just a general "Elder Dragons don't want to deal with that"
 
DMUA said:
I think making them High 6-C contingent on enraging is a bit dubious. They still take hits from Deviljho before they enrage and definitely don't get more resilient in a hunt (In fact, their tail becomes more vulnerable after they enrage hard enough) or vastly more damaging. I can't even think of statements about the Rajang being strong that are contingent on it being enraged, just a general "Elder Dragons don't want to deal with that"
Click to expand...

fair, I only relegated the High 6-C tier to that since we only ever see Rajangs specifically overpower Elder-levels after enraging

but I wouldn't be surprised if I'm missin a whole lotta crucial detail regarding their scaling. I'll fix em if I am
 
Yeah, because they collided with him after a flying charge. He doesn't lose his footing or even go that far of a distance, he overall handles it fine and then enraged to definitively overpower them.
 
Infinity_Dragon said:
Anyone been working on a update for the Elder Dragons that have a Risen version? If not, made a sandbox with all them updated and wanted to ask how they look.

Also wanted to ask on where Valstrax is officially regarded as the fastest monster as I couldn't find where it was stated to be such, so I avoided putting MFTL+ rating in the sandbox.
Click to expand...

Not sure about Valstrax evidence, but the Risen Elder Dragon profiles all look really good! I agree that Risen Shagaru Magala definitely deserves that definitive At least High 6-C, so great. Buuuut I'm going to be a stickler about the Chichae quote here:

jxnSxlq.png


I don't believe capturability is always direct evidence to level of power. As a counterexample, Kirin can't be captured but is scaled below all Elder Dragon-level Monsters who can be captured, such as Rajang.

But if we do say there's a level of power beyond which a monster can't be captured (in the trap sense, not in the, like... let's capture Zorah Magdaros! sense), then we'd be able to add Raging Brachydios, Akantor, and Ukanlos to the pile as they can't be captured either. Hence, Afflicted Monsters would then be comparable in power to those three, who scale to (or maybe above?) regular Elder Dragons. And Risen Elder Dragons would scale above all of them due to the other provided evidence.
 
Come to think of it, I don't remember if we ever did a scaling chain. How do people feel about this one?
Dangerous First-Class Monsters and Safi'jiiva > Xeno'jiiva > Zorah Magdaros >> Amatsu > Narwa the Allmother > Wind Serpent Ibushi and Thunder Serpent Narwa > Base Elder Dragons, Elder Dragon-level Monsters, Rare Species >= Shagaru Magala >= Kirin >> Large Monsters i.e. Rathalos >> Small Monsters i.e. Giaprey
Click to expand...

As for why Amatsu is where it is, I have these screencaps from Fugen's pre-hunt dialogue:

ja7pKp9.png
kthp4Bh.png


Now as for whether Narwa the Allmother scales to 2x Base Elder Dragon level due to having the power of Wind Serpent Ibushi and Thunder Serpent Narwa? I dunno.
 
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