Monster Hunter General Discussion Thread.

[Sigilavox]

That reminds me, we need to give Fatalis a 'Higher with Erasing Fire' since that's what his big nuke is called.

Indeed. The untranslated name of that attack is "劫火" according to the Iceborne book. The first character refers to a "kalpa" - a Hindu/Buddhist concept referring to not only the immense time period between the recreation and subsequent destruction but that iteration of world itself; basically, all of creation (the closest English equivalent being "eon"), and the second character means "fire". As is the cosmic order, at the end of each kalpa, the world is annihilated to pave way for the next eon, and this attack is a direct reference to the great fire that happens at the end of each age and which destroys the world so that it may be created anew. This is awesome.

Not to say that it could literally wipe the world, because that's silly, but still. Awesome.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Indeed. The untranslated name of that attack is "劫火" according to the Iceborne book. The first character refers to a "kalpa" - a Hindu/Buddhist concept referring to not only the immense time period between the recreation and subsequent destruction but that iteration of world itself; basically, all of creation (the closest English equivalent being "eon"), and the second character means "fire". As is the cosmic order, at the end of each kalpa, the world is annihilated to pave way for the next eon, and this attack is a direct reference to the great fire that happens at the end of each age and which destroys the world so that it may be created anew. This is awesome.

Not to say that it could literally wipe the world, because that's silly, but still. Awesome.

That shit is literally describing Alduin's lore from Skyrin since he also destroys entire Kalpas. Huh, so I guess Fatalis vs Alduin does have a thematic connection other than Black Dragons who are the final boss of their games, even if it is a kind of loose one.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Gotta hunt them all! I guess?

 

[Sigilavox]

A furious storm god arrives tomorrow, April 20th.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

A furious storm god arrives tomorrow, April 20th.

 

[Sigilavox]

Wait I've been hearing it's tonight. It's the 20th in Japan right now!

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Wait I've been hearing it's tonight. It's the 20th in Japan right now!

Japan truly is futuristic.

 

[DMUA]

Just finished the Amatsu mission

Spoiler

THE APEX MONSTER SCALING TO ELDER DRAGONS

THE APEX MONSTER SCALING TO ELDER DRAGONS IS REEEAAAALLLLL

 

[Sigilavox]

So, after having fought Amatsu I must say it’s a fun fight. Not too challenging but visually spectacular.

Spoiler

That Utsushi brought in Apex Zinogre to help out was pretty cool. Animations were sick. Also pre-quest dialogue confirms that Amatsu is above the threat level of Narwa, Ibushi and Gaismagorm. The Apex Zinogre was able to harm it and was treated as a tactical advantage by a master hunter, which indicates not only that apexes are at least base elder tier but that they can get even higher.

 

[Sigilavox]

Okay. Now that it's been a few days, I feel like we can just outright state it:

Given that we scale Ibushi (and hence Allmother Narwa, who beats but is able to be injured by regular elders like Teo/Kushala/Malzeno) to baseline Low 6-B for this item description, and Amatsu is considered as beyond Ibushi and Narwa (and probably Gaismagorm as well) in terms of threat, we can scale Amatsu to baseline Low 6-B.

If you want to be pedantic, we could do double baseline due to it being stronger than Allmother, who has Ibushi's power as well and is funnily stated to be "twice as deadly" as a result.

An Apex Zinogre and a Crimson Glow Valstrax both interrupt the fight against Amatsu, in similar fashion to the elder dragons interrupting the Allmother fight.

So, we've known for a while that regular elder dragons can tangle with these Low 6-B monsters, and now we also know that Apex Monsters can as well.

I pose the idea that we can make a CRT for all Kushala-level, Rare Species, and Rise-Apexes to be "At least High 6-C, Low 6-B or higher depending on the individual".

Miscellaneous additions would be to upscale Amatsu to Low 6-B and that Black Diablos should be considered elder level for scaring off Deviljho without any kind of hax. Funnily enough, tempered Black Diablos are said to "approach" elder dragons in physical prowess, kind of implying that elders are physically stronger than Deviljho?

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Okay. Now that it's been a few days, I feel like we can just outright state it:

Given that we scale Ibushi (and hence Allmother Narwa, who beats but is able to be injured by regular elders like Teo/Kushala/Malzeno) to baseline Low 6-B for this item description, and Amatsu is considered as beyond Ibushi and Narwa (and probably Gaismagorm as well) in terms of threat, we can scale Amatsu to baseline Low 6-B.

If you want to be pedantic, we could do double baseline due to it being stronger than Allmother, who has Ibushi's power as well and is funnily stated to be "twice as deadly" as a result.

An Apex Zinogre and a Crimson Glow Valstrax both interrupt the fight against Amatsu, in similar fashion to the elder dragons interrupting the Allmother fight.

So, we've known for a while that regular elder dragons can tangle with these Low 6-B monsters, and now we also know that Apex Monsters can as well.

I pose the idea that we can make a CRT for all Kushala-level, Rare Species, and Rise-Apexes to be "At least High 6-C, Low 6-B or higher depending on the individual".

Miscellaneous additions would be to upscale Amatsu to Low 6-B and that Black Diablos should be considered elder level for scaring off Deviljho without any kind of hax. Funnily enough, tempered Black Diablos are said to "approach" elder dragons in physical prowess, kind of implying that elders are physically stronger than Deviljho?

I mean Ruiner Nergigante does manage to pry open Savage Jho's jaws and pummel the pickle after getting chomped on and various EDs do attempt to grapple with Deviljho's physical equal; Rajang (even EDs that have no business using physical attacks over their elemental attacks cough... cough... Velkhana).

Ofc it could be chalked up to superfluous reused turf war animations looking at you Magnamalo but interesting nonetheless.

Also Amatsu using the thunder element alongside the likes of Narwa and Namielle pretty much makes Kirin almost completely redundant at this point (minus being rock candy for angry apes) it might as well just start specialising in becoming a paralysis ED imo.

It's also both hilarious and kinda tragic that Apex Zinogre is likely the closest thing to a visual confirmation of a Deviant actually fighting an ED and being ED level in terms of power (outside relying on lore and difficulty progression/threat level) Apex Zinogre is literally bootleg Thunderlord.

Funny enough despite being narratively superior to the serpents, Amatsu still somewhat struggles with a monster (Apex Zino) that wouldn't even exist without the serpents, also I suspect after the bonus update that the new totally not a Malzeno variant monster will be the third monster that can possibly appear in the Amastu fight (via having Fiorayne in the party).

Also the last time I played a game with three Japanese inspired deities/monsters that specialised in the elements of wind, lightning and water as well as having dominion over the weather, they could stack on top of each other to become a ineffectual boss monster that was pretty pathetic power wise lol.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Okay. Now that it's been a few days, I feel like we can just outright state it:

Given that we scale Ibushi (and hence Allmother Narwa, who beats but is able to be injured by regular elders like Teo/Kushala/Malzeno) to baseline Low 6-B for this item description, and Amatsu is considered as beyond Ibushi and Narwa (and probably Gaismagorm as well) in terms of threat, we can scale Amatsu to baseline Low 6-B.

If you want to be pedantic, we could do double baseline due to it being stronger than Allmother, who has Ibushi's power as well and is funnily stated to be "twice as deadly" as a result.

An Apex Zinogre and a Crimson Glow Valstrax both interrupt the fight against Amatsu, in similar fashion to the elder dragons interrupting the Allmother fight.

So, we've known for a while that regular elder dragons can tangle with these Low 6-B monsters, and now we also know that Apex Monsters can as well.

I pose the idea that we can make a CRT for all Kushala-level, Rare Species, and Rise-Apexes to be "At least High 6-C, Low 6-B or higher depending on the individual".

Miscellaneous additions would be to upscale Amatsu to Low 6-B and that Black Diablos should be considered elder level for scaring off Deviljho without any kind of hax. Funnily enough, tempered Black Diablos are said to "approach" elder dragons in physical prowess, kind of implying that elders are physically stronger than Deviljho?

I'd say we could use a "Varies" tier. It would seem like the best solution without causing a ton of circular scaling.

 

[Sigilavox]

Ofc it could be chalked up to superfluous reused turf war animations looking at you Magnamalo but interesting nonetheless.

Honestly, I agree. I almost wish they had fewer turf wars than used the same ones between more monsters because the added interactions muddy it up a bit and look odd when you consider the weaponry of the species compared with what you get. I still recall the day I saw a Brachydios attempt to maul an Odogaron without once using its fists or slime, following up with a tail whip. Can't complain too much, especially since it most likely has some powerful jaws, but still. Wishful thinking.

I'd say we could use a "Varies" tier. It would seem like the best solution without causing a ton of circular scaling.

Yes, that's perfect! If varies represents inconsistent power that depends on individual/presentation/situation, applying it to a whole species, for which members are shown having interactions with monsters of different apparent tiers, would be great. It would also, again, neatly tie in the series' inherent power escalation mechanics that you can forge armor pieces from a Rathalos and face off against a Nergigante next thing.

"High 6-C, varies by individual up to Low 6-B" instead?

This also softly the idea that the Velkhana and Ruiner of the Iceborne story were comparable with Xeno'jiiva due to them all being potentially in the same tier.

I'd also push the idea of "High 8-C, varies by individual up to High 6-C" for apex monsters who aren't variations or some such, since we sometimes see regular monsters surviving the hits of higher-tier ones like the Tigrex tanking at least one blast scale and then recovering from being hit head-on by Bazelgeuse's strongest move, and the Yian Garuga who survived having its neck clamped down and being thrown around by a Deviljho and felt ready to keep fighting it off. Also supporting this is that all tempered monsters are considered to have "Elder Dragon-level power", even sub-apex individuals like Tobi-Kadachi or Pukei-Pukei.

 

[Sigilavox]

In retrospect, I'm actually not sure that Ibushi should scale to baseline Small Country level given that the Attack Potency page explicitly says not to assign tiers without calculations unless they are the listed tiers. Also, countries in Monster Hunter are vague enough that the statement, even if literal, would not be a reliable source of scaling.

So if we scale Ibushi and the others to Kushala-tier as Apex Monsters are still fleeing from Ibushi's storm with the rest of the horde and they scale to elders, we can at most have Allmother and Amatsu at twice Kushala's calculation, which is 383.52 gigatons and still in Large Island tier. This would mean that the evidence we have for regular elders scaling up is entirely based on Nergi causing Zorah to be irritated when on its back, Velkhana and Namielle knocking out the post-Xeno Sapphire Star.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

I'd say we could use a "Varies" tier. It would seem like the best solution without causing a ton of circular scaling.

Agree plus it kinda fits in with the lore of MH, I read somewhere Rathalos are extremely dangerous and are simply too much for most hunters to handle yet time and again the "king" always gets afflicted by Worf effect when fighting other monsters and funny enough its record goes all over the place from beating Anjanath to getting stomped by Deviljho from managing to survive an encounter with a black dragon yet also ends up being a bloody mary (or mark in this case?) for Qurio/Malzeno.

In retrospect, I'm actually not sure that Ibushi should scale to baseline Small Country level given that the Attack Potency page explicitly says not to assign tiers without calculations unless they are the listed tiers. Also, countries in Monster Hunter are vague enough that the statement, even if literal, would not be a reliable source of scaling.

So if we scale Ibushi and the others to Kushala-tier as Apex Monsters are still fleeing from Ibushi's storm with the rest of the horde and they scale to elders, we can at most have Allmother and Amatsu at twice Kushala's calculation, which is 383.52 gigatons and still in Large Island tier. This would mean that the evidence we have for regular elders scaling up is entirely based on Nergi causing Zorah to be irritated when on its back, Velkhana and Namielle knocking out the post-Xeno Sapphire Star.

It depends on the context for example destroying the world in a unspecified yet short timeframe usually nets you H6-A without a calculation (as long as the narrative/lore makes it clear and there's tier 6 supporting feat, at least from my own experiences on the forum). Case by case.

Hypothetically IF the wind claw is no good, only monsters that directly scale to or above Zorah exploding and Dalamadur's shakes will remain L6-B?

There's still plenty of feats that have yet to calced tho:

*Ceadeus shaking the Moga region.
*Narkarkos destroying it's bone nest upon his death.
*Shara Ishvalda reshaping origin isle, borrowing through the new world continent and causing a mountain to collapse.
*The multitude of weather/storm feats (albeit I doubt any will be much better than Kirin's Low 7-B feat).

 

[DMUA]

Given that we scale Ibushi (and hence Allmother Narwa, who beats but is able to be injured by regular elders like Teo/Kushala/Malzeno) to baseline Low 6-B for this item description

Weren't we going to ditch this and the Dalamadur Low 6-B feat

Does remind me I should probably get to work on the anti-hyperbole ability CRT I started a long while ago, but regardless it's a bit flimsy for a proper rating

 

[DMUA]

It's also both hilarious and kinda tragic that Apex Zinogre is likely the closest thing to a visual confirmation of a Deviant actually fighting an ED and being ED level in terms of power (outside relying on lore and difficulty progression/threat level)

Bloodbath Diablos does have the explicit statement of utterly dominating a hunter that was capable beating a Deviljho with one hand literally tied behind their back, but otherwise yeah, Deviants are a bit starved for that kinda scaling

 

[DMUA]

Also supporting this is that all tempered monsters are considered to have "Elder Dragon-level power", even sub-apex individuals like Tobi-Kadachi or Pukei-Pukei.

I'm still going to point out that Deviljho and Rajang not having Blue Scoutflies contradicts this pretty directly

I still dislike the idea of having varies from High 8-C to High 6-C on everything but that's mostly arbitrary regardless and isn't really contradicted outside of the gap between Apexes and Elder Dragons being emphasized regularly at various intervals, and stuff like the Yian Garuga encounter kinda just being the Deviljho getting annoyed away more than anything decisive

 

[Sigilavox]

There's still plenty of feats that have yet to calced tho:

*Ceadeus shaking the Moga region.
*Narkarkos destroying it's bone nest upon his death.
*Shara Ishvalda reshaping origin isle, borrowing through the new world continent and causing a mountain to collapse.
*The multitude of weather/storm feats (albeit I doubt any will be much better than Kirin's Low 7-B feat).

I've been thinking about the first feat there, actually.

Ceadeus's strongest earthquake happens in this cutscene, just after beating the Lagiacrus, and it's... I mean, no buildings were damaged (almost certainly a graphics limitation) but look at that. A person could hardly keep their footing with shaking like that, and everyone in the village certainly felt it. These quakes are apparently shaking the entire island, which is far larger than the village itself. By this scale, what would that be? A Mercalli six? That shaking is definitely enough to move heavy furniture, and certainly frightened the villagers, one even remarking that they feared the next one might cause the village to sink into the sea (incidentally, the elder spills the beans that Ceadeus did sink his ancestors' village into the sea). These quakes are caused by impacts in the deep sea-connected cave, rather than from tectonic motion, but it does originate from a single point so the page's Alternative Method equation should be good.

But how far away from the epicenter was Moga? Well, Cha-Cha went to the sea cave that the Ceadeus was in, and described it as below the bottom of the sea here. The average depth of the sea is 3,688 meters (12,100 feet), accounting for open ocean more than island depths. However, Cha-Cha is pretty adamant that he saw it swim into the "dark depths of the ocean" so that depth seems to be pretty good. In any case, this gives us a decent possible distance, assuming the island-shaking earthquake originated from a cave directly below Moga as a low bar.

So if our "r" is 3.688 km and our inputted magnitude is 5, we get a Richter scale of 5.14 and a total Joule output of 2.264e16 Joules, nearly the highest peak of 7-B City level. Work: 10^((5+0.0238*3.688+5.87)/0.67) = 2.264e16

Weren't we going to ditch this and the Dalamadur Low 6-B feat

Does remind me I should probably get to work on the anti-hyperbole ability CRT I started a long while ago, but regardless it's a bit flimsy for a proper rating

Right, this makes sense. The only Low 6-B monsters would then be Zorah, Xeno, and the Forbidden Monsters.

stuff like the Yian Garuga encounter kinda just being the Deviljho getting annoyed away more than anything decisive

There might also be the fact that Yian's roar might have just hurt the Deviljho's ears too much, yeah. Does really loud sound count as hax for bypassing durability gaps? Though the Yian Garuga was pretty thrashed there, being bitten and thrown around repeatedly in an identical fashion to Deviljho attacking Bazel or Ruiner Nergigante, and it got up just fine to go into an immediate counteroffensive when it could have easily taken the moment to flee.

 

[DMUA]

Does really loud sound count as hax for bypassing durability gaps?

In the same sense that blunt force kinda negates durability, or electricity does, stuff like that. Things that can vibrate into your blood vessels, eardrums and anything else can do serious damage without outright breaking through skin, and to a fictional extreme, dealing hearing damage to someone leagues above you in strength isn't that outside the realm of possibility

and it got up just fine to go into an immediate counteroffensive when it could have easily taken the moment to flee.

The Deviljho is also capable of jumping pretty far, so I imagine it trying to just fly off would have resulted in it getting piledrived directly into the dirt again (not that it really had time to think about that, it just sorta chose to engage again in the hopes it would go away and it eventually did)

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Anything interesting go down recently aside from the new Malzeno?

 

[Sigilavox]

Primordial Malzeno looks and fights so damn cool when it's in its normal state. I love the wings being used as swords, spears, and shields. Looking forward to the event quests coming soon, leaks confirmed the existence of a Hazard version of:

Spoiler

Amatsu

...so I'm really looking forward to that.

It's also described as more dangerous than Gaismagorm. Other than that, nothing in terms of VS stuff. I guess I should update Malzeno's page at some point.

Actually, there's something about Primordial Mal that I do want to mention. As someone approaching three thousand hours in the series, I have always loved fights with strong-feeling monsters, and Mal delivered 100% in the story quest. It was exhilarating and cinematic, like a real dance - even with the chaos of the last stage, there was a rhythm to the rampage.

But to my playgroup, in a four-player hunt, he was on the ground 80% of the time and couldn't even finish a single combo in Bloodlust state before he died. The same goes for the Hazard version. The others went out of it feeling just disappointed, which makes me sad that the effort gone into this amazing fight went unappreciated. Like, I don't know if it's just my group but in general, they don't really play monster hunter all that much.

I feel like this is a broader issue with Rise in general, and a tiny bit of World's endgame (though to a much lesser degree, plus Fatalis was able to overcome this due to having restraint on its fall-over conditions and much more threatening damage); four-player hunts feel broken due to how easy it is to just stun-lock monsters and murder them before they can do anything. Even many Anomaly quests with their massive health pool.

If I spend five minutes wailing on an elder dragon that's on the ground for most of that and then it's hunt's over, to me that's like wasted time, or just busywork if it's got necessary materials; I like when it feels like a fight.

Aside from hunters' insane damage output, I also chafe with how easy the general gameplay loop can be with the freedom wirebugs give you - counters and wirefall in particular - and there are a few other small things about how monsters behave that could only happen in this game but are still really annoying, like how they always instantly flee when another is in the zone making dung and dung pods completely useless, or how chase music is fundamentally broken and they've never fixed it. I was listening to the Nargacuga chase theme the other day and it surprised me to no end because I'd never heard it past five seconds! It slaps, by the way.

At least Special Investigations give an almost-acceptable challenge of fight endurance, since before this update I used mods to spend forty-five minutes whittling down a monster's 200k health pool whose damage is scaled to one-shot with certain attacks on a 1-faint quest, though most of my friends don't feel the same way, being more goal or build-oriented. And hey! For them, Sunbreak excelled in skill variety... although I've started to miss the pre-World games' restraint in how many skills it gave the hunter. Can't have everything I guess.

The only thing I'll say about the grind to get to them is "Please, never again." I say this as someone who has consistently logged, like, an average of fifteen hours a week since release since monster hunter is apparently the only hobby I do for myself. Please. Think of the people who dare play other games or not spend two-plus hours of their hard-earned free time every single day!

Now all of these gripes aside, I really do love the game. Now that Sunbreak's over, I'm so very glad it happened. There are so many great monsters with fun move pools (Scorned Magnamalo and Risen Crimson Glow Valstrax are easily among my favorites in the series) and it's cool to see more pre-World monsters get updated to a modern finish, and the loop of jumping into a hunt and going for it is rather addictive, given a certain degree of restraint in exercising the power of a hunter.

Much experimentation was done and the best part is, whatever the team does moving forward, either World or Rise will be unique moving forward as their own titles due to them being so different in so many ways.

In the future, I hope to see more focus on ecology, informational transparency, an actual storyline, or god forbid even legible character arcs the game spends time in - but regardless of any of that, the gameplay will be tight, that's for sure.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Anything interesting go down recently aside from the new Malzeno?

Nothing major rn. I've been working on another verse right (2 300k sandboxes whew)

 

[DMUA]

Honestly, maybe I put my expectations too high because I saw people considering Primal Malzeno super hard and thought he would be equatable to Fatalis, but I was kinda let down even as a solo experience

I beat the guy two tries in, and the second attempt only really came down to the wire because of the cheaper parts of his arsenal like the fact he can combo you into hard knockdowns, or despite the entire game holding the philosophy of "okay, the monster is in it's super state, you want to attack this specific part to make it weak again" compounded by the entire anomaly system that's supposed to add an arbitrary amount of hours to the endgame, Primal Malzeno's super state is just "time to dodge his 17 combo chained attacks"

I guess that lends into me just realizing that Rise doesn't stack up to World once a friend picking up the game gave me an excuse to play through it from the beginning again, but I'm on a time crunch so I'll elaborate later

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So how well has this blog been holding up?

 

[Sigilavox]

So how well has this blog been holding up?

So, you've found my old effort to make a standard profile format that indirectly links to the stamina and intelligence CRTs! I've been meaning to update its syntax and formatting with one example profile to better focus on what exactly should be changing and how before actually going in and updating the listed profiles on case-by-case bases. It doesn't really hold up given the lack of link to the intelligence CRT and the use of the ibushi hardclaw statement. However, I admit my free time has been committed to playing the game over the last half year rather than this! I'll touch it up when free time and the urge to do so align.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

It has been a bit since this was last commented on, huh? Well I finished up most of the stuff on my other main verse so why not discuss what should be done with the verse. Obviously the big one would be to split up The Hunter's profile into multiple separate ones based on the different incarnations. I started this like a year ago though I honestly forgot about it.

 

[DMUA]

Sometimes the moment you realize that a profile will take months and months of work on a single media you just don't want to do it anymore

Especially with how you have to scroll up and down Kiranco to get a proper, non dumb list of abilities for a single incarnation of The Hunter

 

[Sigilavox]

I think that for separating powers and abilities between games, Rise's hunter would simply have Acrobatics and Animal Manipulation via Wirebugs. World's mantles give limited Flight, various Resistances, Stealth Mastery, and Precognition maybe? I remember Temporal being designed after the Huntsman's fighting style, which involves predicting, but not actual precognition. Not sure how that might be applied.

In terms of equipment, ignoring flavor text does wonders for making it easier. Armor skills, consumable items, and basic gameplay mechanics would be my suggestion to look for powers and abilities, like Light Manipulation via flash pods or Resistance to Poison via Antidote.

As for non-hunter aspects of the verse, I had totally forgot about the various things I had running in terms of overhauling profiles and monster information. I'll probably just update my blog when I get around to it.

 

[Sigilavox]

I made a CRT to upgrade Apex Monsters to High 6-C!

 

[JoshSSJGod]

I think that for separating powers and abilities between games, Rise's hunter would simply have Acrobatics and Animal Manipulation via Wirebugs. World's mantles give limited Flight, various Resistances, Stealth Mastery, and Precognition maybe? I remember Temporal being designed after the Huntsman's fighting style, which involves predicting, but not actual precognition. Not sure how that might be applied.

In terms of equipment, ignoring flavor text does wonders for making it easier. Armor skills, consumable items, and basic gameplay mechanics would be my suggestion to look for powers and abilities, like Light Manipulation via flash pods or Resistance to Poison via Antidote.

As for non-hunter aspects of the verse, I had totally forgot about the various things I had running in terms of overhauling profiles and monster information. I'll probably just update my blog when I get around to it.

I feel most hunters would have acrobatics.

Also how shall we handle consistent flavour text like Fatalis n' such? Its obviously a case by case scenario so we should put down some rules as to what would qualify.

 

[Sigilavox]

Also how shall we handle consistent flavour text like Fatalis n' such? Its obviously a case by case scenario so we should put down some rules as to what would qualify.

Honestly, I still think that consistent things that are too far out of the way of the setting's core themes should still not qualify.

For example, magic explicitly doesn't exist in the Monster Hunter universe. Yet, the Fatalis Zaggespanon is described as used for 'reaping souls'. But step back and think about it: this is fundamentally a weapon designed for a hunter to repel, capture, or slay animals in the wild, and even if you could make something capable of reaping souls in this world, there's no precedent for it ever happening or even for souls to exist, and really no reason for a hunter to actually need to do it, let alone a blacksmith going so far as to identify that being a quality of it. Oh, and that 'Unhealable wounds torture those it strikes for centuries' line is not only the funniest edgy thing I've read in a good long while, but also probably an example of hearsay, which I feel can be used to explain nearly any supernatural flavor text.

Basically, by my metrics, consistent flavor text is not eligible if it involves souls, magic, or things that a hunter shouldn't realistically do or need given the core believability of the series. Or stuff that can be chalked up to hearsay or exaggeration, like that a single horn causes mass panic on sight or something like that.

Also, Shagaru Magala (G-Rank) shards are consistently described as having "wall-like resistance". 9-B elder dragons, let's goooo.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Oh yeah, how do yall feel about Gore Magala's new lore that those infected by the frenzy turn into a Gore Magala

 

[Sigilavox]

Oh yeah, how do yall feel about Gore Magala's new lore that those infected by the frenzy turn into a Gore Magala

What are you citing here? I haven't heard anything about that.

 

[DMUA]

Yeah that seems a bit wrong, unless it's like a Fatalis thing where an armorset alluded to that despite

Not really seeming to be correct, given prolonged use from our hunters does not produce such an effect

 

[JoshSSJGod]

What are you citing here? I haven't heard anything about that.

BannedLagiacrus went over the new Sunbreak ecology book.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

BannedLagiacrus went over the new Sunbreak ecology book.

That's certainly strange. Also kind of cool though because I have a bias towards infection based monsters like The Thing and what not, plus Gore and his line are my favorites so I'm down for it.

 

[Sigilavox]

BannedLagiacrus went over the new Sunbreak ecology book.

Wow. My gut reaction to this particular drop of information is to be moderately miffed because the transformation concept doesn't seem realistic enough for my tastes. I hope there's a biological precedent for... whatever this is supposed to be. It always sort of made sense that a Shagaru could lay eggs in a Frenzy-killed victim, and the Gore Magala baby would just eat its way out of the corpse, but this... feels a little bit much.

I'm partial to this interpretation that the book's text could still be read to mean the original understanding, where a portion of the host's cells (specifically called a "seedbed" or "nursery") would be used to grow the new Gore infant as would the host for eggs of a parasitoid wasp or face hugger, and hence doesn't hinge on the entire goddamn monster becoming a Gore Magala. To me, it's really silly to imagine everything from musculature down to the skeleton of something like a Deviljho, a Kulu-Ya-Ku, or a Hermitaur somehow transforming into the hunched, plated wing arm-clad gait of Gore Magala. Especially since we don't have any precedent for variation in Gore Magala physiology, which IMO should 100% be acknowledged in the same breath if it's something that is known or discovered to happen in-universe.

This is likely me being petty, but the very same book mentions the reason for Gore Magala arriving in the Citadel is that it wanted to spread its influence after Malzeno was slain, which is chronologically impossible given the in-game quest progression. It also mentions that Shagaru went to the Citadel to deal with said Gore. Yet what happens is that Gore appears (and dies) in the Citadel, then you hunt Malzeno, and then Shagaru arrives, contradicting the book. Eh.

Edit: You know what, I'll just choose to be excited for new Flaming Espinas or Primordial Malzeno lore.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Wow. My gut reaction to this particular drop of information is to be moderately miffed because the transformation concept doesn't seem realistic enough for my tastes. I hope there's a biological precedent for... whatever this is supposed to be. It always sort of made sense that a Shagaru could lay eggs in a Frenzy-killed victim, and the Gore Magala baby would just eat its way out of the corpse, but this... feels a little bit much.

I'm partial to this interpretation that the book's text could still be read to mean the original understanding, where a portion of the host's cells (specifically called a "seedbed" or "nursery") would be used to grow the new Gore infant as would the host for eggs of a parasitoid wasp or face hugger, and hence doesn't hinge on the entire goddamn monster becoming a Gore Magala. To me, it's really silly to imagine everything from musculature down to the skeleton of something like a Deviljho, a Kulu-Ya-Ku, or a Hermitaur somehow transforming into the hunched, plated wing arm-clad gait of Gore Magala. Especially since we don't have any precedent for variation in Gore Magala physiology, which IMO should 100% be acknowledged in the same breath if it's something that is known or discovered to happen in-universe.

This is likely me being petty, but the very same book mentions the reason for Gore Magala arriving in the Citadel is that it wanted to spread its influence after Malzeno was slain, which is chronologically impossible given the in-game quest progression. It also mentions that Shagaru went to the Citadel to deal with said Gore. Yet what happens is that Gore appears (and dies) in the Citadel, then you hunt Malzeno, and then Shagaru arrives, contradicting the book. Eh.

Edit: You know what, I'll just choose to be excited for new Flaming Espinas or Primordial Malzeno lore.

Yeah I understand that sentiment but we do have to remember that at the end of the day that this is a supernatural verse with plenty of monsters doing stuff that can't really be explained. Like no amount of realism can explain a kaiju sized Snake dropping meteors at people at MFTL+ speeds for example.

 

[DMUA]

Yeah I understand that sentiment but we do have to remember that at the end of the day that this is a supernatural verse with plenty of monsters doing stuff that can't really be explained. Like no amount of realism can explain a kaiju sized Snake dropping meteors at people at MFTL+ speeds for example.

Well like, the entire appeal is biological mechanisms for almost they do down to the seemingly magical abilities (the sacs providing their elemental attacks or even levitation in Amatsu, Narwa and Ibushi's case), this just seems strange, and it's not like it's the first time a guidebook has given information that makes no sense (blue scoutflies being for Elder Dragon level monsters, to which neither Deviljho nor Rajang possess such a thing)

Throwing a meteor that happens to be from a star is another deal than outright subverting a more sensible option like parasitic eggs over biologically distorting an entire creature by force (which is the direct reason for several different monsters being sent into a state of constant agony, like Chaotic Gore Magala, even)