Monkey King of Demons vs Sun beloved Demonslayer (Mori Jin vs Yoriichi Tsugikuni

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Mori fra

 

[azontr]

I vote Yoriichi. Not particularly convinced Mori can end the fight fast enough against someone so much more skilled than him like Yoriichi (as we've discussed) unless he decides to just range spam or immediately amp before Yoriichi bisects him, which I find unlikely.

 

[SeijiSetto]

I vote Yoriichi. Not particularly convinced Mori can end the fight fast enough against someone so much more skilled than him like Yoriichi (as we've discussed) unless he decides to just range spam or immediately amp before Yoriichi bisects him, which I find unlikely.

I just think his Instinctive Reaction (which doesn't appear to rely on sensing intent to kill or any similar bullshit) + actually being able to deflect swords via barehand + info analysis will give him the time and knowledge he needs to develop an effective counter or go through his arsenal till something works, but we don't have to agree. Very civil discussion.

 

[azontr]

A lot of characters can deflect swords with their bare hands friend, doesn't mean they can deflect ALL swords from all swordsmen, Yoriichi ain't that far behind Mori in AP without him utilizing Jeahbongchim, in fact I'd say he has a much better scaling chain which I can provide if necessary.

The rest is fair.

 

[SeijiSetto]

he has a much better scaling chain which I can provide if necessary.

Nah I've already got a pretty good idea I think.

Yoriichi >>> Muzan (Muzan ***** his pants SO hard at the thought of Yoriichi that it's literally embedded in his cells) >>> Demons stronger than Doma > Doma (at least baseline 8-A) >>>>>>> Dying-Of-70x-Lethal-Dose-Of-Wisteria Doma (70 tons),

 

[azontr]

Doma is also baseline 8-A. I'll add a bit more detail.

Yoriichi (Much stronger than a fully healthy Muzan) >>> Muzan (Stronger than any Upper Moon while weakened by a poison that was aging his body by 9000 years in hours) >>> Kokushibo (Incomparably stronger than Doma) >>> Doma (100 tons. Did the 8-B+ feat while weakened by a poison that was 70 times the lethal dose of a poison that is already lethal to demons)

So something more like that.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Gonna go with Mori because i like GOH and dislike DS well i'm neutral leaning towards Yoriichi.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Doesn't Mori have IR feats like dodging/deflecting shit 4k times his speed or smth? Or am I confusing him with someone else?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Mori's endurance far outclasses Yoriichi's. He was weaker than Jegal in raw strength and was pushed to his limit with 8x and he still came out of it alive. Bongchim even noted that any higher than 2x should have killed Mori.

Even if we are to assume Yoriichi outskills Mori, he would become more at a disadvantage the longer the fight goes on with Mori's Reactive Evolution and arsenal of techniques. Mori's no idiot when it comes to combat and he will most likely have the sense to stay out of Yoriichi's range and counter with his ranged techniques.

Speed amp is also going to be deadly for Yoriichi since even without it, Mori can use Homi-Geolyi to disarm opponents on equal speed as him. I'll give Yoriichi the benefit of the doubt with See Through World, however with Mori's speed amp, there's no way he wouldn't get caught in a Homi-Geolyi even if he could see it coming. To add to that, I sincerely doubt Yoriichi would even expect to be disarmed by an unarmed opponent, which would only add to the surprise of Homi-Geolyi connecting.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Doesn't Mori have IR feats like dodging/deflecting shit 4k times his speed or smth? Or am I confusing him with someone else?

More like 400x at LEAST. He, while he had Mach 11 reactions, instinctively reacted to Bongchim Nah, who's far far superior to Mach 466. I say 400x at least because Bongchim scales way above another person's (Ilpyo) calc and it's not clear which end was accepted. Could be way higher potentially.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Oh it uses calc shit.

Damn it.

 

[azontr]

Mori's endurance far outclasses Yoriichi's. He was weaker than Jegal in raw strength and was pushed to his limit with 8x and he still came out of it alive. Bongchim even noted that any higher than 2x should have killed Mori.

Mori absolutely does not have more endurance than Yoriichi in this key.

New Generation Hashira can fight from basically midnight to sunrise against several Upper Moon Demons while on the brink of death, and can still have enough stamina to go on to fight Muzan despite being at a horrific strength disadvantage and still nearly come out on top. And Yoriichi is stupidly above any new generation Hashira.

Even if we are to assume Yoriichi outskills Mori, he would become more at a disadvantage the longer the fight goes on with Mori's Reactive Evolution and arsenal of techniques. Mori's no idiot when it comes to combat and he will most likely have the sense to stay out of Yoriichi's range and counter with his ranged techniques.

How exactly is he gonna stay out of Yoriichi's range, though? Mori is seen in slow motion the entire fight if he does not immediately start with Jeahbongchim (he does not), he doesn't resist Yoriichi's brand of analytical prediction, so there's no world where he immediately gets out of the way.

Speed amp is also going to be deadly for Yoriichi since even without it, Mori can use Homi-Geolyi to disarm opponents on equal speed as him. I'll give Yoriichi the benefit of the doubt with See Through World, however with Mori's speed amp, there's no way he wouldn't get caught in a Homi-Geolyi even if he could see it coming. To add to that, I sincerely doubt Yoriichi would even expect to be disarmed by an unarmed opponent, which would only add to the surprise of Homi-Geolyi connecting.

Homi-Geolyi is not a deadly technique against people more skilled than Mori, all Yoriichi needs to do is not let Mori hook his legs around him, which is easily achieved by just not letting Mori's legs touch him.

Also, Yoriichi is Class 100, Mori is Class 5, he isn't getting disarmed even if Mori does somehow hook his legs because Yoriichi can literally just grab Mori's legs and break them.

 

[azontr]

Doesn't Mori have IR feats like dodging/deflecting shit 4k times his speed or smth? Or am I confusing him with someone else?

Bringing this up once again, but Mori doesn't spam instincts. He only uses it occasionally, and most of the time he just fights using his own conscious movements/skills, so he's not going to be constantly deflecting Yoriichi's attacks with IR.

 

[BoastJr]

Ok
Mori has

Analytical Prediction
Re/AD which seems very good
Instincts which is Good but doesnt seen to always be active
Range + elemental attack
Stat amp options such as Jeahbongchim

Yoriichi has

Arguably higher Ap
Can perceive Mori's attacks and vitals with Selfless State
Much Higher Combat Skills
Much Higher Lifting Strength
Breathing Style which would be difficult to copy immediately

I shall vote Mori for having better win condition options in the long game as well as defensive options to avoid fatal blows till utilising them

 

[First_Witch]

Bump

 

[First_Witch]

Bump

 

[Lynieryz]

Mori FRA

 

[SeijiSetto]

I think 4 for Mori now, 1 for Yoriichi?

 

[First_Witch]

Bump

 

[SuperStar]

Mori fra

 

[Passersby]

yeah i vote yoriichi

 

[DavidTPPM]

So Yori needs to kill Mori before he either outgrows him through AD/RE and/or before Mori uses jeahbongchim, but Mori has range advantage as well as analytical prediction and potentially even stupidly broken IR.
Seems like a match up heavily in Moris favor unless Yoriichi kills him early on, but hitting Mori would be nigh impossible due to all the ways he can avoid attacks.

Mori FRA

 

[Passersby]

So Yori needs to kill Mori before he either outgrows him through AD/RE and/or before Mori uses jeahbongchim, but Mori has range advantage as well as analytical prediction and potentially even stupidly broken IR.

that will never happen,just because he has a record of growing up mid battle doesn't mean he can catch up to an opponent far superior to him in strenght and skill,and said opponent can also gorw mid battle,i feel like you really have no idea how much of a skill stomp this battle is in favor of yoriichi

Seems like a match up heavily in Moris favor unless Yoriichi kills him early on, but hitting Mori would be nigh impossible due to all the ways he can avoid attacks.

.....just because he can avoid attacks doesn't mean he can avoid all of them and even ones from opponents that far surpass him in skill,


this battle is in now way shape or form in favor of mori as far as i can see

 

[Lynieryz]

Now that I think of it... Isn't Mori with Yeoui? because if so the battle simply doesn't exist.

 

[First_Witch]

Now that I think of it... Isn't Mori with Yeoui? because if so the battle simply doesn't exist.

He dosnt have Yeoui in this key though

 

[azontr]

that will never happen,just because he has a record of growing up mid battle doesn't mean he can catch up to an opponent far superior to him in strenght and skill

Technically it can and WILL happen. The point isn't that Mori cannot grow more powerful than his opponent here, but that BEFORE he can do so, Yoriichi would've already killed him.

 

[LordGinSama]

Gigachad unbiased Azontr: Yoriichi probably wins


Goons: Mori skill stomps GG

 

[Epiccheev]

Mori skill stomps GG

 

[azontr]

 

[Passersby]

Technically it can and WILL happen. The point isn't that Mori cannot grow more powerful than his opponent here, but that BEFORE he can do so, Yoriichi would've already killed him.

i still can't see how mori will outgrow him

yoriichi has Accelerated Development and his talent would scale way above people like muichiro who managed to become Pillars, which is the highest position a demon slayer can achieve, two months after they first picked up a sword with Muichiro having been 11 when that happened.

he is by far the best swordsman in the Demon Slayer Corps' 1000 years long history with the best master swordsmen not only being unable to reach his level of swordsmanship but also unable to so much as even learn his style which was superior to all other ones. Kokushibo's Moon Breathing was on a level that other people couldn't imitate for the same reason they couldn't imitate Sun Breathing despite him still not being capable of learning Sun Breathing or matching it in the 500 years he spent as a demon who didn't need to rest or sleep trying to reach his level with his detremination bordering the realm of obsession with it, he was literally obsessed with his goal and never found salvation for this obsession even after his death, ironic considering the moon is a symbol of peace and enlightment but we're not here to talk about character development .
At the time of his death Kokushibo outright called Yoriichi the unequaled sun in his mind and thinks that other people even himself included can only futilely struggle until they become ashes by comparison.

demon slayer is also a series that's no stranger to something like Reactive Power Level which enhances strenght speed senses etc and it still doesn't allow anyone to have any hopes of catching up to Yoriichi. simply fighting uppermoon 6 was stated to be worth 5 to 10 years worth of training and Yoriichi is still far above that

to convince me that mori's accelerated development will allow him to outgrow yori during the fight you need a lot of evidence as i legit cannot see how he can do it, this is just a skillstomp in yoriichi's favor

and with equal speed he is going to see his attacks going in slow motion with the STW so there is that as well

 

[azontr]

yoriichi has Accelerated Development and his talent would scale way above people like muichiro who managed to become Pillars, which is the highest position a demon slayer can achieve, two months after they first picked up a sword with Muichiro having been 11 when that happened.

Mori's done basically the same shit before. In just a few days to weeks, he mastered an acupuncture technique which took a master martial artist 17+ years of constant, isolated training just to use at the base level.

he is by far the best swordsman in the Demon Slayer Corps' 1000 years long history with the best master swordsmen not only being unable to reach his level of swordsmanship but also unable to so much as even learn his style which was superior to all other ones. Kokushibo's Moon Breathing was on a level that other people couldn't imitate for the same reason they couldn't imitate Sun Breathing despite him still not being capable of learning Sun Breathing or matching it in the 500 years he spent as a demon who didn't need to rest or sleep trying to reach his level with his detremination bordering the realm of obsession with it, he was literally obsessed with his goal and never found salvation for this obsession even after his death, ironic considering the moon is a symbol of peace and enlightment but we're not here to talk about character development .
At the time of his death Kokushibo outright called Yoriichi the unequaled sun in his mind and thinks that other people even himself included can only futilely struggle until they become ashes by comparison.

Yeah, I know all this already lol. It's not a counter to accelerated development though. It just means Yoriichi will initially start off as much more skilled than Mori, which doesn't mean Mori can't outgrow him over time.

demon slayer is also a series that's no stranger to something like Reactive Power Level which enhances strenght speed senses etc and it still doesn't allow anyone to have any hopes of catching up to Yoriichi. simply fighting uppermoon 6 was stated to be worth 5 to 10 years worth of training and Yoriichi is still far above that

Mori has fought people who've literally been alive for thousands to billions of years with VERY little actual training in skill. Experience doesn't mean shit to Mori, he fights people more experienced than him all the time.

Also, Mori's accelerated development is impossibly better than anything in Demon Slayer by a huge margin. To put it into perspective:

Mori got hit with a technique that nearly one-shot him, immediately countered the technique that one-shot him despite the fact that people with superior analytical prediction than what Yoriichi has couldn't do it, got one-shot AGAIN by an improved version of the technique, and LITERALLY (I mean literally) a few moments later developed a new skill by copying the same technique despite the fact that it required 3 different techniques beforehand to set-up and was THOUSANDS of times stronger than any skill Mori had used before.

 

[azontr]

Also just to confirm I'm not voting Mori

I'm just clarifying his capabilities so misinformation isn't spread.

 

[Passersby]

Mori's done basically the same shit before. In just a few days to weeks, he mastered an acupuncture technique which took a master martial artist 17+ years of constant, isolated training just to use at the base level.

and Yoriichi was already able to use Transparent World and a breathing technique when he first picked up a sword without any prior training and immediately defeated his brother Michikatsu's sword instructor against whom Michikatsu never landed a hit on, i've already expanded that michikatsu/kokuchibi is not a nobody, he is a master swordsman whose breath style was impossible to pass on for the same reason as the sun breathing despite an inferior version of it, Kokushibo thought of Yoriichi as a miraculous child prodigy compared to whom he was improving at the pace of a turtle and this is the same Kokushibo who apparently expected Muichiro's capabilities as a 14 year old boy and muichiro was hailed as a genius and a talented demon hunter

Yeah, I know all this already lol. It's not a counter to accelerated development though. It just means Yoriichi will initially start off as much more skilled than Mori, which doesn't mean Mori can't outgrow him over time.

and it's not like yoriichi won't grow either if mori proved to be a challenge

Mori has fought people who've literally been alive for thousands to billions of years with VERY little actual training in skill. Experience doesn't mean shit to Mori, he fights people more experienced than him all the time.

is experience expanded on in god of highschool to be something that makes people stronger and more skillful the same way the DS verse operates?

because appearently not if he can fight people whose age is billions of years old

Also, Mori's accelerated development is impossibly better than anything in Demon Slayer by a huge margin. To put it into perspective:

Mori got hit with a technique that nearly one-shot him, immediately countered the technique that one-shot him despite the fact that people with superior analytical prediction than what Yoriichi has couldn't do it, got one-shot AGAIN by an improved version of the technique, and LITERALLY (I mean literally) a few moments later developed a new skill by copying the same technique despite the fact that it required 3 different techniques beforehand to set-up and was THOUSANDS of times stronger than any skill Mori had used before.

i don't know much about mori's AD but What I do know in Yoriichi's case, his AD is also broken as i stated earlier when he first picked up a sword without any prior training and immediately defeated his brother Michikatsu's sword instructor against whom Michikatsu never landed a hit on with michikatsu being the seocond most talented swordsman in the verse, he was also able to instantly create a technique to counter someone's whose physic is constantly changine and his weaknesses are constantly moving in unpredicatble patterns, then he instantly mastered it and used it agaisnt him, not to mention the entire poser system was made by him, said power system gave impetus to human evolution and he created as a 7 year old with zero fighting experience the first he picked up a sword

he is also the progenitor of not just a fighting style but the progenitor of an entire branch of fighting styles. The Breath Styles that we know were derived from Sun Breathing and tought by Yoriichi during his time in the Demon Slayer Corps are Flame Breathing, Water Breathing, Lightning Breathing, Wind Breathing and Stone Breathing. Yoriichi is the guy responsible for the golden age of the demon hunters and created pillars that were hailed as the strongest. This is the impact he had on an organization that already existed for 500 years before he came along and we know that he was only part of the organization for 7 or less years

yoriichi was also instantly able to intantly create a technique to counter someone's whose physic is constantly changing and his weaknesses's move in unpredicatble patterns, then he instantly mastered it and used it agaisnt him

experience means nothing to yoriichi either, but to say that mori will outgrow him during the fight is simply wrong


and how complicated was the skill he copied stated to be?
it being stronger doesn't really say much


edit : also what's layered analytical prediction?

i'm new to this so i have no idea

 

[azontr]

and Yoriichi was already able to use Transparent World and a breathing technique when he first picked up a sword without any prior training and immediately defeated his brother Michikatsu's sword instructor against whom Michikatsu never landed a hit on, i've already expanded that michikatsu/kokuchibi is not a nobody, he is a master swordsman whose breath style was impossible to pass on for the same reason as the sun breathing despite an inferior version of it, Kokushibo thought of Yoriichi as a miraculous child prodigy compared to whom he was improving at the pace of a turtle and this is the same Kokushibo who apparently expected Muichiro's capabilities as a 14 year old boy and muichiro was hailed as a genius and a talented demon hunter

Yoriichi didn't learn Transparent World, he was already born with it, so it's not a skill feat for him to be able to defeat somebody with its use, especially a sword instructor whose only feat of skill is playing around with Kokushibo as a literal CHILD with no formal training or combat experience. It's not even close to being a legit skill feat.

and it's not like yoriichi won't grow either if mori proved to be a challenge

Mori's development is better so not particularly relevant.

is experience expanded on in god of highschool to be something that makes people stronger and more skillful the same way the DS verse operates?

because appearently not if he can fight people whose age is billions of years old

Experience does make people stronger in GoH the same way it does so in any verse. God's themselves are particularly strong and skilled simply because they live longer than humans and can thus train for much longer.

Mori ignores this gap regularly against strong and skilled opponents.

don't know much about mori's AD but What I do know in Yoriichi's case, his AD is also broken as i stated earlier when he first picked up a sword without any prior training and immediately defeated his brother Michikatsu's sword instructor against whom Michikatsu never landed a hit on with michikatsu being the seocond most talented swordsman in the verse, he was also able to instantly create a technique to counter someone's whose physic is constantly changine and his weaknesses are constantly moving in unpredicatble patterns, then he instantly mastered it and used it agaisnt him, not to mention the entire poser system was made by him, said power system gave impetus to human evolution and he created as a 7 year old with zero fighting experience the first he picked up a sword

I already said this above, Yoriichi defeating the sword instructor is NOT a skill feat. Yoriichi was BORN with the ability to use See-Through World, which inherently gives him an ENORMOUS edge over normal fighters. He didn't train to achieve it, nor did he gain it via skill, he was BORN with an ability that gives him an inherently much higher combat ability than normal people because of its mechanics.

he is also the progenitor of not just a fighting style but the progenitor of an entire branch of fighting styles. The Breath Styles that we know were derived from Sun Breathing and tought by Yoriichi during his time in the Demon Slayer Corps are Flame Breathing, Water Breathing, Lightning Breathing, Wind Breathing and Stone Breathing. Yoriichi is the guy responsible for the golden age of the demon hunters and created pillars that were hailed as the strongest. This is the impact he had on an organization that already existed for 500 years before he came along and we know that he was only part of the organization for 7 or less years

I'm aware of all this, but it doesn't have anything to do with accelerated development so there's no relevance towards the debate.

yoriichi was also instantly able to intantly create a technique to counter someone's whose physic is constantly changing and his weaknesses's move in unpredicatble patterns, then he instantly mastered it and used it agaisnt him

Mori literally did the exact same thing but better. He literally copied a technique after getting one-tapped by it TWICE despite the fact you need to perform 3 separate moves to execute it, and despite the fact that people with excellent analytical ability cannot perform this. I already stated this but I'm repeating it because you clearly ignored it.

experience means nothing to yoriichi either, but to say that mori will outgrow him during the fight is simply wrong

No, it's not. I've literally illustrated how it's not. Most of the feats you've brought up for Yoriichi's skill aren't even feats because he was literally born with an extreme edge over any human that makes it impossible to overcome him normally.

and how complicated was the skill he copied stated to be?

I literally already ******* said it. Read.

Mori got hit with a technique that nearly one-shot him, immediately countered the technique that one-shot him despite the fact that people with superior analytical prediction than what Yoriichi has couldn't do it, got one-shot AGAIN by an improved version of the technique, and LITERALLY (I mean literally) a few moments later developed a new skill by copying the same technique despite the fact that it required 3 different techniques beforehand to set-up and was THOUSANDS of times stronger than any skill Mori had used before.

 

[Yeolban]

Mori's done basically the same shit before. In just a few days to weeks, he mastered an acupuncture technique which took a master martial artist 17+ years of constant, isolated training just to use at the base level.

Let me correct you, he mastered acupuncture after reading one (1) book on it.

 

[azontr]

Let me correct you, he mastered acupuncture after reading one (1) book on it.

Ah. My knowledge is rusty, then.

Much thanks, madam.

 

[Passersby]

Yoriichi didn't learn Transparent World, he was already born with it, so it's not a skill feat for him to be able to defeat somebody with its use, especially a sword instructor whose only feat of skill is playing around with Kokushibo as a literal CHILD with no formal training or combat experience. It's not even close to being a legit skill feat.

i never really said he learned it?

the guy is a sword instructor who kokushibo the second most talented swordsman in the verse was unable to even land a hit on despite training so much his hands bled, kokushibo ten years later also describes that yoriichi's current skills are incoparable to his skills as a child meaning even then he still considered yoriichi's previous skills as amazing and that was ten years later, that alone proves more than enough that yoriichi's skills as a child are not to be frowned upong and neither is the sword instrtuctor your avergae swordsman

there is also the fact that yoriichi never even had to learn, he just intantly realized how to use the sword

Mori's development is better so not particularly relevant.

....that's the thing, i don't really know if it actually is or not

Experience does make people stronger in GoH the same way it does so in any verse. God's themselves are particularly strong and skilled simply because they live longer than humans and can thus train for much longer
Mori ignores this gap regularly against strong and skilled opponents.

answer the question, is it expanded upon?

the DS verse puts heavy emphasis to experience and skills, the older they are the more they fought and the more skilled they become and the more skilled they are the stronger as well, and we're talking about a character who dedicated 500 years of time without sleeping resting or eating to train in swordmanship and fight other master swordsman and despite that he described a 24 year old ay best yoriichi's skills to be a sun he can never reach, that's how skilled yoriichi is and how fast he developed

also they're not billions of years old from what i found, it's thousands, that makes much more sens unless i missed something

I already said this above, Yoriichi defeating the sword instructor is NOT a skill feat. Yoriichi was BORN with the ability to use See-Through World, which inherently gives him an ENORMOUS edge over normal fighters. He didn't train to achieve it, nor did he gain it via skill, he was BORN with an ability that gives him an inherently much higher combat ability than normal people because of its mechanics.

...the only ability the STW gave him is to see trough someone's body, everything else he does with it is due to his intelligence and deductive abilities, not really much of an edge, what is a plus is the fact that it allows you to see the world in slow motion, that's it

the fact that he was able to make something like that so overpowered is because he is a genius, the ability itslef isn't much

I'm aware of all this, but it doesn't have anything to do with accelerated development so there's no relevance towards the debate.

it means that he can adapt and even create and use multiple fighting styles if he wanted to, we also never see yoriichi learn anything, he was always teaching, everything he has(and most of what the entire verse has for that matter) was made by him

Mori literally did the exact same thing but better. He literally copied a technique after getting one-tapped by it TWICE despite the fact you need to perform 3 separate moves to execute it, and despite the fact that people with excellent analytical ability cannot perform this. I already stated this but I'm repeating it because you clearly ignored it.

...i did not, i simply argued that it doesn't make him better by providing a feat of yoriichi doing the same thing exept better, yoriichi is able to calmly and instantly observe the bloodflow of the human body as well as the muscle contraction and lung expantion in a fight and accurately and easily predict the opponent's next move, that itself is a feat

and even then, despite only seeing an opponent once, and despite said opponent's physic being unique and one of it's kind, having no set form and being constantly changing in unpredictable patterns, he was able to create an entire new technique dedicated to slashing all the weaknesses despite their appearent chaotic behavior then master it and use it on the spot, i can't see how what you provided can be considered as "superior" as he copied a technique that's stronger than his own, no mention of how complicated it is was stated

No, it's not. I've literally illustrated how it's not. Most of the feats you've brought up for Yoriichi's skill aren't even feats because he was literally born with an extreme edge over any human that makes it impossible to overcome him normally

....what exactly is the edge?

oh yes, extreme talent and godly accelerated development and sword skills described as divine by the characters who know him as they lament how they can only turn to ash and disappear without ever being able to touch said sword skills no matter how hard they tried

the STW?
that ability is literally useless apart from the slow mo unless your deductive and mental abilities can keep up and be able to use it
and i wonder who has it yet still spent all his life training to catch up but was never able to
ah right, uppermoon 1

you have not illustrated nor explained how the feats i provided are not skill feats, you just said they're not and left it as is

unless you think it's talent intelligence and AD, then yes, that's his edge

I literally already ******* said it. Read.

...no, you said the technique is stronger than what he has, you have not mentioned nor portrayed how complicated it is

the only explanation i see is the analtyical prediction you mentioned, how good is and how does it operate?

 

[azontr]

the guy is a sword instructor who kokushibo the second most talented swordsman in the verse was unable to even land a hit on despite training so much his hands bled, kokushibo ten years later also describes that yoriichi's current skills are incoparable to his skills as a child meaning even then he still considered yoriichi's previous skills as amazing and that was ten years later, that alone proves more than enough that yoriichi's skills as a child are not to be frowned upong and neither is the sword instrtuctor your avergae swordsman

Talent has nothing to do with it. The point is he was a literal child with no experience back then. Of course a grown man with formal training will easily play around with a child, no matter how skilled they are, because talent does NOT equate to skill.

answer the question, is it expanded upon?

the DS verse puts heavy emphasis to experience and skills, the older they are the more they fought and the more skilled they become and the more skilled they are the stronger as well, and we're talking about a character who dedicated 500 years of time without sleeping resting or eating to train in swordmanship and fight other master swordsman and despite that he described a 24 year old ay best yoriichi's skills to be a sun he can never reach, that's how skilled yoriichi is and how fast he developed

This isn't even the concept being expanded upon, this is simply how experience works in literally every verse ever. The more and longer you train, the stronger you become. It's not a unique concept in Demon Slayer.

it means that he can adapt and even create and use multiple fighting styles if he wanted to, we also never see yoriichi learn anything, he was always teaching, everything he has(and most of what the entire verse has for that matter) was made by him

I know what it means, still doesn't have anything to do with the argument.

.i did not, i simply argued that it doesn't make him better by providing a feat of yoriichi doing the same thing exept better, yoriichi is able to calmly and instantly observe the bloodflow of the human body as well as the muscle contraction and lung expantion in a fight and accurately and easily predict the opponent's next move, that itself is a feat

He's able to do this via an ability he did not train for. He was born with it. It's NOT a feat because no feat was performed to attain it.

and even then, despite only seeing an opponent once, and despite said opponent's physic being unique and one of it's kind, having no set form and being constantly changing in unpredictable patterns, he was able to create an entire new technique dedicated to slashing all the weaknesses despite their appearent chaotic behavior then master it and use it on the spot, i can't see how what you provided can be considered as "superior" as he copied a technique that's stronger than his own, no mention of how complicated it is was stated

I literally did say how complicated it was, you just have poor reading comprehension, which is not my problem, really.

...what exactly is the edge?

oh yes, extreme talent and godly accelerated development and sword skills described as divine by the characters who know him as they lament how they can only turn to ash and disappear without ever being able to touch said sword skills no matter how hard they tried

the STW?
that ability is literally useless apart from the slow mo unless your deductive and mental abilities can keep up and be able to use it
and i wonder who has it yet still spent all his life training to catch up but was never able to
ah right, uppermoon 1

Don't be disingenuous like this. You know for a ******* fact that STW is an immense edge on any opponent. Being able to see your opponent in slow motion and passively predict their movements by seeing through their body isn't "useless" because it literally allows you to counter the attacks of basically anyone who doesn't have the ability.

It's objectively not a skill feat for Yoriichi to have STW.

you have not illustrated nor explained how the feats i provided are not skill feats, you just said they're not and left it as is

Yeah, I did. You being unsatisfied with my explanation is a different story, but yeah, I did explain it.

...no, you said the technique is stronger than what he has, you have not mentioned nor portrayed how complicated it is

Yes I did, you just can't read.

the only explanation i see is the analtyical prediction you mentioned, how good is and how does it operate?

It allows people to see everything about the opponent from their movements to their exact thoughts and intentions without even having to look at them while having basically nothing to go off of.

 

[Yeolban]

The original technique was done in 4 stages, 3 to prep and the 4th one would actually be the hit.
The first stages were explained as irregularly reflecting air currents with continuous punches and kicks and controlling the flow of air, then blowing all of the air currents at the opponent with the 4th stage.
At the same time, they also served the purpose of disturbing the opponent's attack, breaking their balance and breaking their guard.

Not only did Mori completely shatter the opponent's technique, he integrated those 4 into only 1 step, which was several times more powerful, like azontr said. And that was only after experiencing the hit once.

Mori did not just mindlessly copy the technique and it worked out, he understood exactly how everything worked and how to counter it. It was also directly stated that "It looks simple, but it's hard to figure out."

What I wrote above is just 1 of the examples Mori's demonstrated, and, again, as azontr has previously stated, his analysis is insane.

 

[Passersby]

Talent has nothing to do with it. The point is he was a literal child with no experience back then. Of course a grown man with formal training will easily play around with a child, no matter how skilled they are, because talent does NOT equate to skill.

he was raised as the family's heir, he definitely had at least a year of experience, and you ignored my last point

This isn't even the concept being expanded upon, this is simply how experience works in literally every verse ever. The more and longer you train, the stronger you become. It's not a unique concept in Demon Slayer.

....yes, this concept needs to be expanded upon, in DS skill is just another word for strenght, the more skilled you are with the breathing styles and their forms and the stronger you are, it's a power system dedicated to having skills as the main factor of what decides a fight and strenght is a byproduct of said skill

is it the same in god of highschool?

I know what it means, still doesn't have anything to do with the argument.

alright then, let's establish that yoriichi has multiple fighting styles to use and be done with it

He's able to do this via an ability he did not train for. He was born with it. It's NOT a feat because no feat was performed to attain it.

...i never even said he trained to get it, that's just a straw man

I literally did say how complicated it was, you just have poor reading comprehension, which is not my problem, really.

...alright then now you're getting mad or impatient, just use be like mori jin and copy my writing style that has zero curses and is respectful, please kindly tell me where you explained how it's more complicated

Don't be disingenuous like this. You know for a ******* fact that STW is an immense edge on any opponent. Being able to see your opponent in slow motion and passively predict their movements by seeing through their body isn't "useless" because it literally allows you to counter the attacks of basically anyone who doesn't have the ability.

...yes, in my and your hands, the ability is useless you nor me can never even hope to do even a fraction of what yoriichi can do with the ability, all the STW provides is the ability to see trough someone's body, that's it

it's only useful part is the ability to see the world in slow motion

in yoriichi and in a smart and talented fighter's hands however, the STW ability is busted as they have the mental abilities to accurately observe the bloodflow muscle contractions and lungs expansions and deductive abilities to deduct the opponent's next move using the information they deduced, a feat that in and of itself, is pretty impressive, let alone doing it instantaneously like it's nothing much then continuing the fight

that's what i meant, regularly, that ability is useless, in the talented demon hunter's hands, it's not

i'm not being disingenuous, i'm just stating the truth

It's objectively not a skill feat for Yoriichi to have STW.

i never even said it's a skill feat to have the STW, i said it's a skill feat to be able to instantly make use of it in a battle despite never doing so and having zero combat experience prior to that

Yeah, I did. You being unsatisfied with my explanation is a different story, but yeah, I did explain it.

...you did not, you only said that having the STW is not a skill feat and i never even said that it is

Yes I did, you just can't read.

you have not, you just said that it's stronger than any tecnhique in his arsenal and said that people with way better AP than yoriichi are unable to learn it

It allows people to see everything about the opponent from their movements to their exact thoughts and intentions without even having to look at them while having basically nothing to go off of.

hm..

"basically nothing to go off of" is pretty vague, but this sounds like the STW, exept the reading toughts part, since the STW can even see the biology and DNA of living beings, and the other characters can easily read intentions such as fightning spirit and bloodlust etc, but yoriichi has none so that bit is irrelevant

the AP is indeed superior however, i fail to see how analytical prediction can play a role in learning new techniques? shouldn't that be an information analysis and accelerated development feat?

i say that, because i just checked the definition, analytical prediction has nothing to do with learning new techniques

The original technique was done in 4 stages, 3 to prep and the 4th one would actually be the hit.
The first stages were explained as irregularly reflecting air currents with continuous punches and kicks and controlling the flow of air, then blowing all of the air currents at the opponent with the 4th stage.
At the same time, they also served the purpose of disturbing the opponent's attack, breaking their balance and breaking their guard.

Not only did Mori completely shatter the opponent's technique, he integrated those 4 into only 1 step, which was several times more powerful, like azontr said. And that was only after experiencing the hit once.

Mori did not just mindlessly copy the technique and it worked out, he understood exactly how everything worked and how to counter it. It was also directly stated that "It looks simple, but it's hard to figure out."

What I wrote above is just 1 of the examples Mori's demonstrated, and, again, as azontr has previously stated, his analysis is insane.

thank you for explaining the technique, much appreciated, however, as i stated above yoriichi's information analysis and adaptibility seems to be a bit better via making the 13th form, to quote what i said

..i did not, i simply argued that it doesn't make him better by providing a feat of yoriichi doing the same thing exept better, yoriichi is able to calmly and instantly observe the bloodflow of the human body as well as the muscle contraction and lung expantion in a fight and accurately and easily predict the opponent's next move, that itself is a feat

and even then, despite only seeing an opponent once, and despite said opponent's physic being unique and one of it's kind, having no set form and being constantly changing in unpredictable patterns, he was able to create an entire new technique dedicated to slashing all the weaknesses despite their appearent chaotic behavior then master it and use it on the spot, i can't see how what you provided can be considered as "superior" as he copied a technique that's stronger than his own, no mention of how complicated it is was stated

which is far more complicated than what mori had done, if mori has more info analysis feats please do state them

miss/mr azontr, if you're reading this, we're just arguing for fun, so please do calm down a bit as from what i saw in your writing you don't seem to be in the best of moods

if something is happening irl we can always stop, i wish you a beautiful day