Monkey.D.Luffy vs Assassin of Red (Semiramis)

[StrongClick]

Honestly going with Semi here. PH Luffys level wasn't exactly clear as say dressrosa. His best offensive feat was Grizzly magnum and even in g2, his gattling was withstood by Monets snow for a bit. It was a point in the manga where he didn't go all out and his end arc opponent was already vastly weaker.

I'm going for Semiramis

 

[LordGinSama]

Yeah that vote doesn't count. Gotta give a reason rather than "yeah I'm going for this character." And yes it's obviously Punk Hazard Luffy isn't as strong as Dressrosa Luffy. The difference between 7-A and Low 6-B is over a thousand times. However Luffy is still 7-A via scaling, while his best feat was Grizzly Magnum that doesn't mean much considering scaling is a thing.

 

[Bluetrekking]

Luffy for reasons above.

 

[Reppuzan]

To clarify Sikera Usum, she has the power to imbue anything in her Throne Room with poison. Her fingers, drinks, the air, magical energy e.t.c.

She can pick any poison she desires, choosing to replicate Hydra Poison to torture Mordred. For reference, seconds of exposure to this poison left Mordred foaming at the mouth and wracked with such excruciating pain that she was only barely able to move. This same poison is so painful that immortals like Chiron (who shrugged off having his eye crushed while fighting Achilles) and legendary heroes like Heracles (who barely flinches after being turned into a human pincushion by weapons powerful enough to level mountains) chose to die rather than experience it any longer.

She can also create chains made of condensed poison tough enough to completely restrain Mordred in large enough quantities and drag her about Semiramis' Throne Room. These can also be launched with considerable concussive force and manifested anywhere in the room.

Semiramis also has the ability to summon any Phantasmal Species (legendary beast or monster) related to poison. She can normally summon Primeval Snakes along with gushing amounts of water to attack her foes. The snakes themselves are easily cut apart by Mordred, but the gushing water could prove troublesome for Luffy if Semiramis catches on. Her ultimate summon is the Basmu, a Divine Beast birthed by Tiamat who is comfortably above the likes of Medusa's Pegasus, which was powerful enough to match 90% of Excalibur's light. However, due to its power, she can't summon the whole thing at once in the heat of battle, only summoning its top half.

Aside from poison, Semiramis also has the ability to create thousands of Dragon Bone Warriors with ease. They're mostly cannon fodder, but they can annoy Servants and get in their way.

She also has access to EX-Rank Magical Blasts that overcome A-Rank Magic Resistance. A-Rank Magic Resistance causes magic powerful enough to kill Heracles once to bounce off. She can fire these en masse from multiple directions.

 

[StrongClick]

Why would PH Luffy scale to G4 level? Given the arc specification we should discard all knowledge after punk hazard. The main argument is that Luffy is resistant to poison but nothing PH or even bfore suggests that he could take doses of Semis poison without being affected performance-wise. Hell we don't even have proof Ceasar automatically emits poisonous gases in his logoa form and like I said the g2 attack power was bearly able to break Monets snow. Hell his busoshuko was not enough to block Hordys teeth bite as per his own words and he lacked any relevant combat Kenbunshoku feats that could prove to be hard to beat(besides maybe dodging a pacifista laser but even that can be argued to be merely reflex). Semis just has a much more impressive arsenal.

 

[LordGinSama]

1: Caesar Clown could also do the same thing and he could even turn erode Luffy's Busoshoku Haki, something that's quietly literally a physical manifestation of one's Soul and Will.


2: Again this ties into your tolerance to pain and your pain threshold. Just because you are immortal doesn't mean you have high tolerance to pain . Whilst in Impel Down Luffy struck and fought Magellan for a good while being poisoned multiple times Magellan and I'm gonna start posting scans. Luffy was able to power through all of this stacked poison for awhile before going down and even then it didn't kill him. It made him go unconscious for awhile then he had to endure Freezing Hell where the temperature can literally freeze the prisoner's solid and all this was before Luffy developed his resistance to Poison. That speaks magnitudes to how much he can take.









3: Well Mordred's lifting strength isn't as high as Luffy's nor can she create an explosive wave of Aura just with a thought like Luffy can do with Conquerors Haki. He activates it and he's freed.


4: Well i doubt that'd be an issue unless they can produce enough water to get up to his knees, theres also the fact that Luffy can render animal's or even tame animals and creatures with his Conquerors Haki. So that's going to be an issue.


5: Well if they're fodder as you say then they'll be subject to the effects of Conquerors Haki. I don't think Luffy is going to bother fighting hordes of people weaker than him as seen in Fish Man island where he knocked out thousands of Fish Men with a single blast of Conquerors Haki.


6: Well Luffy scales to someone who might as well be fodder to him who had a 336 Megaton feat and Luffy is well above that along with his Gears. And Kenbunshoku Haki with his crazy reflexes should be enough to last. And Kenbunshoku works much better with Killing intent which there will be lots of making it easier for Luffy to read her attacks.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Knight

Heracles is extremely resistant to pain due to his God Hand and ridiculous willpower. Being skewered multiple times by numerous Conceptual Weapons didn't stop him from trying to defend Illya from an omnidirectional barrage from Gilgamesh.

Give me an example of Conqueror's Haki being able to blow apart chains strong enough to hold a Mountain level character. Conqueror's Haki has only worked on fodder and Semiramis is far stronger than fodder.

Semiramis summoning the Primeval Snakes with a lot of water.

The beasts are under Semirami's direct command and control, so Conqueror's Haki won't be doing anything to them and the Basmu probably in the High 7-A Range.

I don't know if Luffy is going to be able to power through a poison so thoroughly toxic that liquids vaporize on contact with it when he was already ready to keel over from touching Magellan's comparatively weaker poison.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Now i will not worried anymore if this debunked or not.

 

[Reppuzan]

I should also point out that Semiramis' barriers tanked Clarent Blood Arthur, which was powerful enough to match Balmung, a Noble Phantasm that was able to cut a swathe through an Anti-Country Noble Phantasm.

 

[LordGinSama]

@Repp


1: Well that seems more akin to resurrection as opposed to insane stamina and endurance / pain tolerance, which is what the God Hand does. And that situation seems pretty situational, and seems more like very good reflexes.


2: Conquerors Haki has an explosive Aura to it as seen in most of the showing ( I.E Luffy vs Doffy on Flower Hill which reached a few Kilometers and damaged their surroundings.) The explosive force generated from his Conquerors Haki should be equal to his AP more or less.


3: That'd likely hinder Luffy to an extent I'll give you that but Luffy can just remove himself from the water by grabbing onto to something near by and stretching away.


4: Well if Basmu is probably in the High 7-A territory then it needs to be restricted due to making things unbalanced. I suppose that's true if they'd be under her control.


5: Well Magellan was able to essentially melt one of the staff at Impel Down with his poison and Luffy was able to fight him for a decent amount of time whenever he should have died the first time upon contact and as i said before this was before the Time Skip where Luffy gains his resistance from Magellan in the scans i posted. I'm not gonna be ridiculous and say he'd lol nope it, but it wouldn't kill him quickly as his body is constantly reproducing Anti-Bodies against Poison.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

Luffy for Knight's Reasoning.

 

[Heilergott]

If this actually reached the point where stamina is a Reason to endure Poison, it's far beyond unreasonable. Stamina DOES NOT matter if your muscle tissue does not react to signals anymore, your brain swells, your blood clots to sirup and more. There are poisons that just destroy your entire nervous system, not just block it. Again. Drunk Kings Poison will not kill Luffy. But it will weaken him. And that is enough. Nevermind that Luffy, even with all that, will have trouble even hurting her. Her Armor is enough to facetank Clarent Blood Arthur which is already above 7-A. Her entire Skillset is EX in that room, she can easily wreck people with B ranked Magic Defense and toss them around like toys. The only reason Mordred ever even was able to fight was because of her Saber-Class Magic Resist Skill. Luffy has exactly no magic resist. Semiramis Chains will catch him, a single beam should be enough to nearly kill him, considering the power of these things. She has homing beams, a extremely fast single exploding beam and freaking Basmu. Really, the assumption that Luffy can just shrug of Basmu is rather unreasoable.

As for Semiramis Concept Manip. Yeah, she has that. Like every other servant in Fate. A noble Phantasm Is nothing more than a Concept or an Idea. That is the base of Unlimited Blade Work and of Servants themselves. Semiramis Concept is poison, since she was the first being to use it, which is why she can do all the stuff she can.

In short, even without Poison, she should still win since all her other skills are better. And there is nothing in Luffys Arsenal on Punk Hazard that can get through her Shield.

It seems like half the people here did not even bother to look on Semiramis Page at all. Has anyone even bothered to look that she, like ANY other servant, can eat Souls? Luffy has no protection from that. That is, if he even is able to find her, since she has presence concealment. That does not even drop when she poisons someone. And Basmu itself is also above 7-A. And unlike Mordred he cannot just run through that thing with a sword since he has none.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

^ I can´t see in his profile conceptual manipulation

Second: i don´t want to vote,i will only said to knight that the part where luffy eats that poison fish is not PIS

Luffy ate the skin of the fish ,if a gigant try to eat JUST a little portion,the gigant dies intantly ,the venom spreads to every part of the body,and gigants are like mountains

So luffy didn´t diying when he eat more than a gigant can resist .is absurdly impressive,his body was fighting such a potent venom without dying instantly

 

[VoidGoji]

Semiramis hasn't concept manipulation, but still a potent as **** poison. God Hand nulls every B-rank attack or lower on a conceptual level, and reduces the effect of A-ranked attacks. And this wasn't enough to save Heracles.

As stated, her barriers and chains >>> Luffy's AP.

 

[LordGinSama]

Man you never cease to amaze me with the false information. Luffy can indeed hurt Mordred and likely quite easily at that, Mordred doesn't scale to the full 385 Megatons since she's still weaker than Arturia meanwhile Luffy is superior to King to did a 336 Megaton feat feat with out the use of Busoshoku or Gears. Luffy >>> Sanji= Zoro >>> King. Again you keep wanking, a single chain isn't going to kill Luffy, that's like me going "lol Luffy one shots her with a Gear Third attack." But I'm not since I'm actually aware of the statistics unlike you.


Lmaoooo yeah no she doesn't have concept manipulation, especially not every Servant. Can you please stop with the wank? It's getting pretty ridiculous if I'm being honest. She doesn't have concept manipulation and you know this.


I'd beg to differ considering Luffy has multiple ways to bring up his AP ( I.E Busoshoku Haki, Gear 2nd and 3rd, etc.) And no if it wasn't for the poison Luffy would win with relative ease.


Yes but it's not combat oriented, she'd need to kill him first before consuming his Soul. Hmmm yeah no he'd still be able to find her with his Kenbunshoku Haki, Presence Detection, Aura Detection, superior precog than Mordred has, better versatility etc. Honesty your arguments are getting very desperate if I must say so myself.

 

[John985]

I think it's because you think that stamina is enough to ignore the poison of Semiramis.

 

[LordGinSama]

Well perhaps if you read the argument you'd know I meant his resistance and I never said he ignores it. And from the scans I've posted I made it clear stamina does indeed play a factor in this.

 

[Heilergott]

Killing is not required to eat Souls. If I remember, Gil did something like that with Living People. But let's leave that out. I am @the moment writing out my final arguments. Will try to be as precise as possible, since my wording in my posts before was crap.

 

[ALRF]

>Magellans poison who has the most potent poison on this wiki

1-A poison sucka ;^)

 

[John985]

Just call ramesses really.

 

[Heilergott]

It annoys me more that I actually seem to be reaching the Limits of my Englishskills here.

 

[Bepo4151]

Luffy for knight reasons

 

[Heilergott]

I am going by the Wikia-Pages here. Thought, yeah, I also had to notice Concept Manipulation is not noted on Servant Pages. Why, I actually do not know. F/SN clearly states that NP are Crystalized Ideas/Concepts. I mean, there are servants that do not even exist in History but are instead manifestations of that Story.

If Luffy can hurt Mordred does not matter. What matters if he can hurt Semiramis. I'd use Statistiks for Semiramis, but Mordred's are way to varied to do that to crossscale and Semiramis Nature makes it rather hard.

What am I supposed to say? Sabers have extreme magic resistance and Semiramis is still able to hurt one. If I were to go by Nasu-Statistics, Semiramis is somewhere between 7A and 6B in her Throne-Room for her EX-Magic Rank. Normal A is mountain Level, EX is immeasurable. But I cannot use these statistiks since they are to varying and undecided.

Basmu is noted to be a "Surekill" NP-Beast, but Mordred was able to cheat her way through it because of her MR and Semiramis being to rushed to use it fully since she had no time to summon it completely on the fly.

But screw it. I am going to clearly write out what I think now. Since I myself have been kinda spongy with my Arguments here. I am sorry. That was not my intention.


First of all, the huge Elephant in the Room: Semiramis' poison. Problem is, none knows how strong it is, compared to Magellan. Judging by comparing effects, she should be around there somewhere, maybe below, maybe above. Never poisoned Luffy was able to fight poisoned for a while, but massively impaired, while Mordred dropped after seconds. It seems tied to her Magic Skill, which would imply Mordred did not instantly die because of her MR. So I assume, in term of this fight, that Luffys Instantaneous State in the Room will be below Mordred's state of Damage, but still impairment. I here, take sluggish movement, imprecision and other simmilar effects. When she activates her NP, all her Spells gain the same Level of Poison, which she can also change to every other type of poison on the fly. This seems to include every type of mythological poison, too, considering that she can faithfully replicate Hydra poison on the fly without any mythological ties to Hydras.

I'll leave out that Semiramis NP is noted to be a Sure-Kill NP, since that seems rather Outlier in htis context.

Next: Basmu. Not much I can say there. Basmu is supposed to be stupid deadly. And powerful. The Basmu she summons here, since she is allowed to Summon it beforehand, will be far stronger than the one in F/Apo, since she is not rushed this time and can summon the Full Beast. Problem here: Divine Beasts range from Mountain to Country to Planet Level. So, how powerful is it? It is just noted to be so poisonous you die. There are Dozens of them, all with varying powers and Resistances. Only true Scaling seems to be Tiamat here, since Basmu is a child of her. But Tiamat is 5A, which I rather doubt Basmu is. So I'd put True summoned Basmu somewhere between High 7C and 6C, to make it kinda fair.

I'd however doubt that Conquerors Haki will work on it, since it seems to not work on people close or equal to your own power.

Magic: No clue how to write that up. She can harm people with B Magic Resist. How good is that? Well, as far as I know, it's "nullify anything below 3 verses and weaken anything above". Eh. Does not really help to quantify how much stronger her Magic would be on Luffy instead of on Mordred. Considering however, that they did mentionable damage to Mordred, I'd say they will do mentionable damage to Luffy and again, unlike her, he has no Armor or MR to shield him from the Damage.

Her chains are extremely fast, able to blitz Mordred. Luffy is faster, at least in Gear 2, than Mordred, so I would say they do not Blitz, but should be capable of at least chasing and harming.

She can also generate thousands of Minions with her Dragon Fang Warriors.

Lastly, her Barriers. They have shown to Block Clarent Blood Arthur, which is above 7A and as it seems, Rider's Pegasus, which is solid 7A. So I'd reason they can block Luffys Gear attacks.


And that pretty much summs it up for me. I just do not think Luffy will win while impaired with poison. Without it, it would be a whole other buisness. But his impairment will only get worse the longer the fight lasts and Semiramis will have a incresingly easier time to hit him.

Again, sorry if I was a jerk about my arguments before.

 

[LordGinSama]

1: Yeah no I doubt that's gonna pass as Concept Manipulation, even if it does that'd be very poor concept manipulation. I doubt it'd be helpful in combat.


2: That wasn't my point, point was Luffy is physically superior to Mordred so restraining him and blocking blows from him are gonna be harder as opposed to block hits from Mordred. He has higher AP and durability than her. That was my main point.


3: Not gonna debate this we'll just move past this to save time for the both of us.


4: Well from what I've heard from Repp Basmu is around High 7-A creating a stomp thread therefore it has to be restricted, otherwise we need to give Luffy Gear Fourth to balance things out ( which doesn't work.)


5: Lol it's cool nothing personal.


6: Well as I've shown Luffy took multiple hits from Magellan in Impel Down before going down and only got knocked out. Said Poison should have killed him and Luffy regained himself soon afterwards but was still incapacitated, had to endure Freezing Hell while being severely poisoned, afterwards he had to go through a 10 hour surgery with Ivankova. It took 10 years off his life span and well Post Time Skip shouldn't have too much issues with poison anymore. I won't argue over who has more potent poison anymore. But I'd like to point out Magellan also has Hydra Poison and every other poison as the Doku Doku no Mi user.


7: Read 4, if Basmu is that strong it's automatically a stomp. I don't really need to explain why. Conquerors Haki might work seeing as how Luffy made the Kraken his alley but I won't get into that.


8: Luffy has his Busoshoku Haki which can act as an armor. However you are correct about the Magic Resistance thing but Busoshoku gives the user resistance to elemental attacks so there's that if anything.


9: Speed is equalized we probably shouldn't be talking about speed right now.


10: Yeah those Minions are getting knocked out via Conquerors Haki. They can bother Servants in large numbers but nobody Semiramis fought could knock out weaker foes with a thought and knocked out thousands with it.


11: 7-A is a wide tier, and CBA isn't above 7-A. It's still 7-A just to a higher degree just like Luffy's Gears.


Well it seems we have different views on this match since I still think Luffy can win for the reasons I've already made. Now let's just agree to disagree and move on. Lmao it's fine no hard feelings.

 

[Heilergott]

Yeah. Thumbs up buddy. This Matchup turned way harder to vote for than I thought.

 

[LordGinSama]

Indeed. But I must say I did enjoy having a good debate instead of the thread ending in 10 comments lol.

 

[Heilergott]

I do, too. Most people just read once through the biggest Walls of Text and then write FRA...