Monika BDE removal

[Phoenks]

I played DDLC quite a long time ago and I can't remember all of it, my apologies. Well, yeah we deleted her file but since all of this is fiction and all we're not going by conventional reality logic here. After all, BDE would sound more like an extrapolation than resistance.

???

She very clearly didn't resist anything if we can see the file get deleted as we delete it from the game storage.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Could've been a hidden resistance where the player thought she was deleted from the exterior, but she still covertly existed after that.

@DontTalkDT Your input here would be appreciated.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

According to the Beyond-Dimensional Existence page, "Beyond-Dimensional Existence on this wiki refers to the state of being of characters who exist outside, and are independent of, space and its dimensions.". Despite Monika being affected by the player erasing her character file, which deletes characters from the DDLC universe's space, time and all the in-setting cosmic data that the level of reality was comprised of, Monika was still able to function independently of those factors that sustained her existence and her world's existence, thus indicating that Monika's "Nonexistent state" most likely qualifies for having Beyond-Dimensional Existence. I disagree with the revision proposal.

 

[GarrixianXD]

According to the Beyond-Dimensional Existence page, "Beyond-Dimensional Existence on this wiki refers to the state of being of characters who exist outside, and are independent of, space and its dimensions.". Despite Monika being affected by the player erasing her character file, which deletes characters from the DDLC universe's space, time and all the in-setting cosmic data that the level of reality was comprised of, Monika was still able to function independently of those factors that sustained her existence and her world's existence, thus indicating that Monika's "Nonexistent state" most likely qualifies for having Beyond-Dimensional Existence. I disagree with the revision proposal.

And nothing really implies that they exist beyond space-time. Her sustaining her existence could've just been resistance or not only existing as a file, and not necessarily existing beyond dimensional existence.

 

[Phoenks]

And nothing really implies that they exist beyond space-time. Her sustaining her existence could've just been resistance or not only existing as a file, and not necessarily existing beyond dimensional existence.

You've yet to prove why it would be a resistance.

You're literally just making baseless claims at this point.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Because simply having the ability to "exist“ after being erased along with the timeline doesn't actually concretely qualify for existing above space-time?

 

[Phoenks]

Because simply having the ability to "exist“ after being erased along with the timeline doesn't actually concretely qualify for existing above space-time?

Again you are misunderstanding what BDE1 is even though I and others have provided you with the definition multiple times.

Type 1: Characters whose nature is defined by lacking spatiotemporal features without necessarily being superior to any of them.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

And nothing really implies that they exist beyond space-time. Her sustaining her existence could've just been resistance or not only existing as a file, and not necessarily existing beyond dimensional existence.

The entire DDLC universe, as in the in-setting location and not the whole work of fiction by Team Salvato in our real life perspectives, was a digital universe. Files and code were what this digital universe was made of, encompassing space, time, the script, et cetera. The character files were like the essences of the characters that made them compatible with the world and its concepts. Monika sustained her existence within DDLC past no longer being part of the system of files and all that they encompass, meaning that she had no logical reason of being within and compatible with anything in DDLC at that point if she was completely bound to its rules. This is why, to a limited extent, she's regarded on the VS Battles Wiki as not being bound to its rules, in the form of Beyond-Dimensional Existence.

The justification for Beyond-Dimensional Existence comes from Monika being affected by the player's erasure, so not resisting it, yet being able to function to a limited extent after that given the context in the previous paragraph. It's highly unlikely that what happened was as simple as Monika having a resistance to an ability.

I do think that Monika's profile could do a better job at explaining the somewhat special way that the DDLC cosmology works. If not that, then an explanation blog post would be even better. I'd be willing to help with improving the explanations that the VS Battles Wiki provides, but I still disagree with your revision proposal.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Monika didn't resist the deletion. And she doesn't need to be beyond space-time to qualify for type 1, lacking the features would be enough. So the way things currently are, she meets the criteria.

But I will say that BDE's type 1 has enough of an overlap with the characteristics of her NPE that it's understandable how this breeds confusion.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Could've been a hidden resistance where the player thought she was deleted from the exterior, but she still covertly existed after that.

She literally says that being deleted is painful and her feelings are even hurt from this.

At this point you're literally saying she wasn't even erased, but "secretly" resisted it when that doesn't even make sense with the story.

But honestly, I might ask, did you click on any of the scans me and @Phoenks linked, or just went on guesswork and headcanon yourself? From how you speak you didn't even check her profile despite you've linked it, really.

 

[StrymULTRA]

This is off-topic; I'm talking about BDE here not erasure from space-time and history. And I cannot find DBE on Lavo's page.

Btw it's on the Dream Devourer tab.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I do think that Monika's profile could do a better job at explaining the somewhat special way that the DDLC cosmology works. If not that, then an explanation blog post would be even better. I'd be willing to help with improving the explanations that the VS Battles Wiki provides, but I still disagree with your revision proposal.

There's already the old CRT I made by the way.

Plus the MES page needs updating regardless, that profile is grossly outdated lol

 

[Shmooply]

Yeah the OP really isn't making any good counterarguments, so I disagree.

 

[Planck69]

Good lord the amount of guesswork in this thread is insane.

Anyway, this is a weird case largely because Nonexistent Physiology and Beyond-Dimensional Existence (Type 1) overlap massively. By all accounts Monica should keep it.

 

[Guileal]

Taking advantage of the theme, would a character who exists before the concept of space-time and created it gain BDE?

 

[Makunoichi]

Taking advantage of the theme, would a character who exists before the concept of space-time and created it gain BDE?

Type 2?

 

[Guileal]

Type 2?

I think so, I remember at the end of the work that the character is mentioned as having transcended existence

 

[GarrixianXD]

Aight, I issue my concession and admit I was a dumb ****. Sorry guys.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Aight, I issue my concession and admit I was a dumb ****. Sorry guys.

Making a mistake, realizing it and correcting it is a method of gaining experience, so it's not dumb and you don't need to apologize. Now you'll have an easier time identifying when a character has beyond-dimensional existence to the standards of the VS Battles Wiki.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Aight, I issue my concession and admit I was a dumb ****. Sorry guys.

No one can know everything or be right every time, no need to say that you're dumb. Glad that we're all clarified on this.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Aight, I issue my concession and admit I was a dumb ****. Sorry guys.

Glad you realized you were wrong.

An advice is to read things properly before making arguments on those, as otherwise you'd look like a fool like it happened here.

Anyway asking for closure.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Also I'll take advantage of the delay of the thread's closure to promote my new DDLC CRT.