Momoshiki possible upgrade?

[BMWFanboy]

So in Boruto Episode 55, Urashiki tells Momoshiki the basic tale of Kaguya and her sons, how she gave birth to them and got sealed by them. He also mentions how she was afraid of them and was creating living weapons to counter them. This is supported by a statement where it is indicated Kaguya was supposed to bring the chakra of Earth to Momoshiki.

At the end, Momoshiki says he's grateful to the vulgar creatures for having dealt with Kaguya, sparing him the time to punish her himself. Note that this is Kaguya after consuming the chakra fruit and becoming a God. Does this mean Momoshiki > Kaguya? Will he be upgraded?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Hmm. This is interesting.

Though I don't think this means Momoshiki would be beyond the power of her ETSB. It might be too vague or speculative.

Maybe at best an "At least low 5-B" for being beyond normal Kaguya?

 

[Mindovin]

After their fight against Naruto and Sasuke they be revised accordingly. Also this arrogance, overconfidence, ignorance or simple truth nobody could know for ceartin.

 

[Kepekley23]

Any further context? He said himself that Naruto and Sasuke dealt with Kaguya despite being weaker. Sealing Kaguya doesn't require fighting her, sort of.

 

[BMWFanboy]

Well it's nearly 1 AM where I am but I can get more scans by tomorrow, and I'll post them here

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

In the discussion thread, someone said Momoshiki referred to Kaguya as an insect, and that the Ōtsutsuki know everything that happened on Earth with Kaguya and Hagoromo, and they still consider her to be weak.

But in any case, the best he can get is at least Low 5-B.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

As said already, At least Low 5-B at best.

Even if they consider her weak, doesn't mean their above her best move, look at Kabuto vs Naruto.

Guess we play the waiting game.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah agreeing with above. Being weaker doesnt mean her best move gets surpassed and by "insect" it could have been Kaguyas nature and personaility that made the clan disgusted with her.

Either way, at least low 5-B im good to agree with, but thats it.

 

[DodoNova2]

there is also an interesting Speed Feat in the episode

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@DodoNova2

You should make a different thread for that and get said feat calced. Or calc it and get it evaluated.

 

[DodoNova2]

Alright

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Watch the episode and scene in full. Momoshiki was Ignorant about Kaguya and Naruto's world until Urashiki said something. And this is the guy who is implied to be reporting back to the main clan regularly as he told Kinshiki to report back to the clan earlier.

It's seriously disgenuine to judge Kaguya by Momoshiki's statement when the dude didn't know shit about her or the world, post Kaguya intially coming.

On top of this, Momoshiki's feats across all mediums pretty much negate anything about him being > Kaguya. No upgrade here, Momoshiki is simply talking a big game.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Yep i agree with TFO

 

[Omimi]

Momoshiki called Kaguya an insect even thou base naruto rasengan >>>>>>>>>>>> Momoshiki

Lol

 

[TheFinalOrder]

At best we know Base Momoshiki > Kaguya (Prior to her eating the Fruit).

 

[LucyyXNyuXHana]

Nope. Momoshik is just talking a whole lot of smack.

But the amount of visual cues of planetoids makes me think we miiight get a legit planet busting feat somewhere in this arc.

 

[BMWFanboy]

Urashiki is well aware of how Kaguya got sealed by Hagoromo and Hamura, this was after she ate the fruit, and he didn't bother to comment on her power even then. Neither did Momoshiki and Kinshiki.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Urashiki is well aware of how Kaguya got sealed by Hagoromo and Hamura, this was after she ate the fruit, and he didn't bother to comment on her power even then. Neither did Momoshiki and Kinshiki.

Because they didn't know what her power is. For gods sake, A amped Momoshiki get's cucked by a exhausted Naruto.

 

[BMWFanboy]

How would they not know her power yet know what all happened to her AFTER she got that power?


So? Do you mean to say Naruto didn't get ANY stronger at all?

 

[TheFinalOrder]

How would they not know her power yet know what all happened to her AFTER she got that power?


So? Do you mean to say Naruto didn't get ANY stronger at all?

Knowing her story doesn't equte to knowing how strong she is. Period, this isn't even up for debate. A lot of people know about Naruto and still don't know exactly how strong he is in his own verse.

As far as Naruto getting stronger goes, there is no proof he got stronger. Saying he's stronger is an assumption based on other assumptions.

 

[BMWFanboy]

How would they not know her power yet know what all happened to her AFTER she got that power?

So? Do you mean to say Naruto didn't get ANY stronger at all?

Knowing her story doesn't equte to knowing how strong she is. Period, this isn't even up for debate. A lot of people know about Naruto and still don't know exactly how strong he is in his own verse.
As far as Naruto getting stronger goes, there is no proof he got stronger. Saying he's stronger is an assumption based on other assumptions.

So they know what happened to her, which is a tale no one except Naruto, Kakashi, Sasuke and Sakura knows, but they won't know how strong she was when she got sealed. Smh

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Momoshiki is definitely far superior to Kaguya this is mentioned

in the anime

Manga

Databooks

and countless novels


People need to understand Kaguya isn't god tier anymore, the further we get to the story the more we learn she was pretty much a criminal on the run from a Clan full of characters much stronger than her.

However

This doesn't make Momoshiki 5-A, as 5-A Kaguya was only able to get that via absorbing the chakra from the world. yes, its' true that all that chakra once belonged to Kaguya..it was also mentioned before that Chakra can be cultivated and grown so the chakra she absorbed is likely far more than it once was.

Momoshiki should be at least low 5-B via being superior to Kaguya.

Ok let's knock some questions some might have out the park

1. Momoshiki doesn't'''' know about post eating Fruit Kaguya

A: Momoshiki makes it clear in one of the earlier episodes that the Clan has been watching earth for thousands of years, they know about Kaguya, Hogoromo ect, them not knowing about the fruit would just be insulting as they reference a shit ton of events, including the Last Naruto Fight.

2.Momoshiki cant Be as powerful as Kaguya anyway as she ate the divine fruit so they likely talking about base Kaguya.

A: Doesn't Matter when Momoshiki has done the same thing...multiple times... in fact Momoshiki wiped out an entire civilization and the fruit that ate on that planet which also had a divine tree was merely "adequate this time around" implying his had more than one before

3. If Momoshiki was really that much more powerful than Kaguya then Naruto and Sasuke would not have beat him because they were struggling with her

A: Well they could have just gotten simply stronger since then?, Naruto is a Shonen..in fact it's a battle manga which falls victim to the power of escalation effect, where threats constantly get stronger and the heroes need to aswell to match them, if you have watched any shonen power manga that's not One Piece then you know what I'm talking about.

4.But Shadow. Naruto isn't like other Shonen, they rely on abilities, not power.Naruto doesn't have power of escalation stuff.

A: Hahahahah...i think someone missed the last 40 percent of naruto or the fact that Naruto's base mode went from town level to small country level in two years.

5. But Shadow Kurama stated that Naruto got rusty

A: He was talking about his Battle Awareness... your chakra cant get rusty.. even so, everything that we've seen is contradicting this statement anyway... base naruto was able to for a few seconds keep up with Momoshiki anyway, Feats>Statements. also there is the fact that Kurama could have just been pulling Naruto's Leg as later on Naruto says the same thing to kurama, its friendly banter.

6. But Naruto got stabbed by a sword ,he must be weaker.

A:Ohh you never heard of the secret Ninjutsu ability called plot no power no jutsu?


In conclusion Momoshiki is indeed more powerful than Kaguya but doesn't scale to her 5-A feat as that feat was done via absorbing everyone's chakra, while you could say that Momoshiki has eaten far more fruits and could have more Chakra than Kaguya but as we talked about before that Chakra doesnt always mean AP, its a case to case basis thing and ontop of that it would lead us to more speculation than i like as speculation can lead to inflated results and scaling

 

[BMWFanboy]

Momoshiki is definitely far superior to Kaguya this is mentioned
in the anime

Manga

Databooks

and countless novels


People need to understand Kaguya isn't god tier anymore, the further we get to the story the more we learn she was pretty much a criminal on the run from a Clan full of characters much stronger than her.

However

This doesn't make Momoshiki 5-A, as 5-A Kaguya was only able to get that via absorbing the chakra from the world. yes, its' true that all that chakra once belonged to Kaguya..it was also mentioned before that Chakra can be cultivated and grown so the chakra she absorbed is likely far more than it once was.

Momoshiki should be at least low 5-B via being superior to Kaguya.

Ok let's knock some questions some might have out the park

1. Momoshiki 'doesn't' know about post eating Fruit Kaguya

A: Momoshiki makes it clear in one of the earlier episodes that the Clan has been watching earth for thousands of years, they know about Kaguya, Hogoromo ect, them not knowing about the fruit would just be insulting as they reference a shit ton of events, including the Last Naruto Fight.

2.Momoshiki cant 'be' as powerful as Kaguya anyway as she ate the divine fruit',so' they likely talking about base Kaguya.

A: Doesn't Matter when Momoshiki has done the same thing...multiple times... in fact Momoshiki wiped out an entire civilization and the fruit that ate on that planet which also had a divine tree was merely "adequate this time around" implying his had more than one before

3. If Momoshiki was really that much more powerful than Kaguya then Naruto and Sasuke would not have beat him because they were struggling with her

A: Well they could have just gotten simply stronger since then?, Naruto is a Shonen..in fact it's a battle manga which falls victim to the power of escalation effect, where threats constantly get stronger and the heroes need to aswell to match them, if you have watched any shonen power manga that's not One Piece then you know what I'm talking about.

4.But Shadow. Naruto isn't like other Shonen, they rely on abilities, not power.Naruto doesn't have power of escalation stuff.

A: Hahahahah...i think someone missed the last 40 percent of naruto or the fact that Naruto's base mode went from town level to small country level in two years.

5. But Shadow Kurama stated that Naruto got rusty

A: He was talking about his Battle Awareness... your chakra cant get rusty.. ev,en so, everything that we've seen is contradicting this statement anyway... base naruto was able to for a few seconds keep up with Momoshiki anyway, Feats>Statements. also there is the fact that Kurama could have just been pulling Naruto's Leg as later on Naruto says the same thing to kurama, its friendly banter.

6. But Naruto got stabbed by a sword ,he must be weaker.

A:Ohh you never heard of the secret Ninjutsu ability called plot no power no jutsu?


In conclusion Momoshiki is indeed more powerful than Kaguya but doesn't scale to her 5-A feat as that feat was done via absorbing everyone's chakra, while you could say that Momoshiki has eaten far more fruits and could have more Chakra than Kaguya but as we talked about before that Chakra doesnt always mean AP, its a case to case basis thing and ontop of that it would lead us to more speculation than i like as speculation can lead to inflated results and scaling

This

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I agree with Shady here.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

How would they not know her power yet know what all happened to her AFTER she got that power?

So? Do you mean to say Naruto didn't get ANY stronger at all?

Knowing her story doesn't equte to knowing how strong she is. Period, this isn't even up for debate. A lot of people know about Naruto and still don't know exactly how strong he is in his own verse.
As far as Naruto getting stronger goes, there is no proof he got stronger. Saying he's stronger is an assumption based on other assumptions.

So they know what happened to her, which is a tale no one except Naruto, Kakashi, Sasuke and Sakura knows, but they won't know how strong she was when she got sealed. Smh

Yeah, that's exactly it. I don't really care for the skeptism to be honest. Same reason how everyone could know Madara's story and still not know how strong he is proof enough.

Or, you want me to poke a hole in your belief that the Otsutsuki know everything. How the **** are they gonna know everything that happened to Toneri yet NOT know where to find him? Cpome on dude, you don't have to know how strong someone is to know their story. Period.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I can't deal with this right now. You want to believe Kaguya isn't the strongest thus far, be my guest. You're entitled to your own opinion. But the fact still remains:

• She's stronger than Naruto and Sasuke still

• It's an assumption that Naruto and Sasuke got stronger

• Momoshiki isn't really a match for Naruto or Sasuke (Especially in Base).

The feats prove this. Everything else should be taken with a grain of salt.

Kaguya > Momoshiki, even without ETSB.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

No its not

its been clearly shown that post time skip they have gotten stronger

every word of god states that Momoshiki is superior, guidebooks , novels ect

just because momoshiki didn't pull a 5-A attack doesn't mean much when that said attack wasn't even Kaguya's own natural AP in the first place

it's a solid and very reasonable assumption to make that they have gotten stronger.. or become a higher level of low 5-B when every one of their other forms have aswell.

Also, Kaguya wasn't that much superior than them with out ETSB

her tactics relied on mostly BFR and Ash bones, something that ignores durability in the first place.

also, Naruto has on two occasions traded blows or outright damaged kaguya on his own.

even if Kaguya is superior it's not nearly as much as you think.

ontop of that a far inferior form is legitimately a few digits off of being as powerful as their previous most powerful form.

so yes...they have gotten stronger

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I will say this to be fair.

We shouldn't automatically assume Naruto is stronger than Momoshiki ,from how he beat him in the movie, in the same way in the anime. The anime already has performed notable differences from the movie (Urashiki's existence differs from the movie), so because of all these changes there shouldn't be a 100% guarantee things will end the same way as before.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Isn't Teenage Naruto>his adult incarnation?

 

[BMWFanboy]

Huh? How is Teen Naruto stronger than Adult Naruto lmao

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Teen has TSB,more chakra,other Bijuus and their jutsus,like steam release,magnet release,lava release etc.He is obviously stronger than Adult who lacks all of this.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Shadow

The two things that make your argument completely invalid are:

• Saying they've gotten stronger

• Saying WoG says Momoshiki is stronger

Both of these are verafiably false. Momoshiki is never directly compared to Kaguya strength wise and there is no proof Naruto and Sasuke got stronger. You are assuming with no proof to back up said assumptions!

What makes with worse is Momoshiki's feats. Without being fused .He gets bodied if Naruto and Sasuke went all out. Even being fused, he got bodied.

The FACTS sorely state otherwise and prove Kaguya, Post Coming to Earth, is stronger.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

that's just bad reasoning

that's like saying Raditz is weaker than Piccolo pre timeskip because he never blew up a small country.

i just proved they've gotten stronger by feats... saying they haven't is blatantly false

Momoshiki is constantly compared to Kaguya..thats literally the only thing we have on him when it comes to strength.

his constantly stated to be superior to Kaguya in every medium he has appeared in ontop of him knowing all about Kaguya and stating himself to be superior.

also, Momoshiki's feats make this worse? Kaguya doesn't have anything that's put her above Momoshiki besides her ETSB somethings thats, not even her normal power.

not only did Momoshiki hold his own for a short amount of time against a stronger naruto and Sasuke, yes stronger.. because feats say so. but they had physically joined forces into their Kurama Susanoo form to take him down where as naruto trading blows and cut off her arm all on his own/

WOG Feats and Lore all place Momoshiki above Kaguya

Kaguya isn't anything special anymore stop trying to act like she is.

as a fan of Madara Uchiha I'm pretty salty about it aswell but I'm not going to ignore the facts and try and find convoluted ways to dismiss something when the obvious answer is right in front of us and gets repeated non stop

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

anyway, I've said what I wanted too, take that as you want. I won't be answering after this because threads like these lead to me and FinalOrder having long ass arguments or debates over stuff I feel like we shouldn't, also I don't like it as I think @FinalOrder is awesome guy and stuff like this can create toxicity among members who are passionate about the stuff they talk about.

so with that you can agree with me or disagree that's fine, I'm not insisting what I say is the absolute truth and nothing but the truth as its mere fiction and can be interpreted in different ways.

so sayonara for now!

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Shadow

Likewise, man. Everytime we get in threads like this, I feel like it's Captain America Civil War.

 

[Lord_Hades_Prince_Of_Darkness]

What if Momoshiki absorbs both Kinshiki and that other guy. Would that be enough to put Momoshiki at- at least low 5B?

 

[TheFinalOrder]

What if Momoshiki absorbs both Kinshiki and that other guy. Would that be enough to put Momoshiki at- at least low 5B?

He stil gets offed by a Weakend Nauto's Rasengan. I mean, all things Considered, Momoshiki is just comparable to Naruto and Sasuke going all out while fused.

 

[AstralKing7]

i agree with Shady here ive also read the manga and Light Novel and they both describe Momoshiki as being stronger than Kaguya and Sasuke has even commented on how dangerous Momo after he absorbed a star.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

i agree with Shady here ive also read the manga and Light Novel and they both describe Momoshiki as being stronger than Kaguya and Sasuke has even commented on how dangerous Momo after he absorbed a star.

LMAO! How many times do I have to tell you that it NEVER describes Momoshiki as stronger than Kaguya?

 

[AstralKing7]

bruh lol i read the light novel and i dont feel like arguing hehe come on i know what i saw.