Minor Pokemon Type Standards Revision

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Not attempting to change much here on this, so im just going to cut to the chase. The standards for Pokemon Typing need revising, because some of what's allowed from pokemon typing is straight up nonsense.

Now, for the most part, the type standards are fine. For us to be equalizing resistances to things like fire type moves as resisting fire and heat manipulation, water type moves being a resistance to water manipulation, or electric type moves as electricity manipulation, they are not an issue. Some of it is pretty straightforward. The real issue, however, is the type immunities and the relationships between them. And the immunity that needs to be removed from every Pokemon page that has it, are flying type pokemon resisting earth manipulation because of their "immunity" to ground type moves.

And I put quotations around "immunity" because this is, in fact, not a real immunity or resistance like the other typing's provide. Simply put, its a result of game mechanics. The resistance doesn't exist for flying pokemon in the first place outside of in-gameplay, meaning? It's not a real resistance. This is something that has come up before in the past, but the only actual reason why Flying Type Pokemon are considered "immune" to ground type moves is strictly because flying type pokemon are not in contact with the ground. They are in mid air, so they are out of a ground type moves range of effect, which makes them "immune". But this is not an actual legitimate immunity or resistance in the sense that the flying type was actually hit with the attack and resisted it. Even when looking at one canon source when it comes to this, there's a plethora of evidence that shows this immunity is only because of being aerial.

In the games, we have a number of things proving being aerial is how flying types are "immune" to ground type moves.

• The ability Levitate, used by some pokemon like Gengar, negates ground type attacks by floating in the air.
• Magnet Rise, a move that grants the user "immunity" to ground type attacks by rising into the air.
• Items like the air balloon, which allows the user to be "immune" to ground attacks by floating in the air.
• Items like the iron ball, which makes the user vulnerable to ground type attacks by making them incapable of flying while holding it.
• Gravity, a move that increases gravity to make flying type Pokemon grounded by making them incapable of flying, making them vulnerable to ground type attacks.

All of these show that an immunity to ground type moves only exists because of not having contact with the ground, and the fact that being grounded to restrict flight or having contact with the ground literally makes you susceptible to them, is even further evidence for this. Otherwise, being forced to remain on the ground wouldn't negate something thats supposed to be a natural resistance. Unless of course you want to consider things like Gravity as some kind of resistance negation, which is just ridiculous. Even non-flying type pokemon like Gengar or any Pokemon holding an item that lets them fly like the air balloon get the "immunity" to ground moves, proving further that this immunity is simply avoiding it by being in the air. It is not a real immunity and thinking it is is just nonsensical.

In addition to that, another damning piece of evidence to debunk this resistance being a thing is the fact that, even by Pokemon's weird typing relationship rules, a flying type pokemon is somehow supposedly "immune" to ground attacks......yet they are considered weak against rock type attacks. And yes, im arguing against ground and earth being somehow considered 2 different typings. There's literally no explicit difference between rock and ground, they're literally the same thing. Why should we consider these 2 as two distinctly different types all because Pokemon mechanics dictate so? Both types are plainly associated with manipulating the ground and earth. This case is not the same thing as like with Water and Ice types where, while ice is technically the same attribute as water, it counts as different because it's a different form of water and has different effects. Rock and ground have no such relationship like this, thinking they do just because of a mechanic separating the 2 into types is baseless and just genuinely stupid.

"B-but flying type pokemon have been shown perched to the ground before and still haven't gotten effected by ground type moves!"

Avatar misrepresentation, and a blatant abuse of in-game mechanics to a stupid degree, incase this comes up. Flying types appearing they're "perched" on the ground when in battles is largely because of the sprites in-game not being animated like they have been in recent gens. Do you seriously think a flying type sits in a stationary position facing their opponent, only flies when using a move, and then goes back to that position when not attacking or when they're getting attacked? That is text book turn based play. Even the opening of Red and Blue Version showed two Pokémon dodging attacks and moving around more than the avatars do.

On top of this, not only are flying type pokemon more consistently animated to be flying rather than just "sitting" on the ground, but appearing to just be "standing up" doesn't mean they're grounded. It's like saying Pikachu in Brilliant Diamond / Shining Pearl has damage transferal because he can damage you using double kick without actually being shown kicking you. Instead. he jumps up and down in the same spot he's in instead of physically going to the opponent and kicking them. But that doesn't mean anything, and neither would this point on being perched.

Everything so far is just from what the games have provided us too. This gets even more damning if we include the anime, where flying types like Ash's Charizard gets effected by magnitude by Gary's Golem, or when Ash's Staraptor gets effected by toxic spikes from Paul's Drapion. And why? Because both were in contact with the ground to receive the effects of both moves. Arguing against the idea that flying types don't have an actual legitimate resistance requires you to take the in-game treatment of Pokemon types to a very big degree and ignore a plethora of proofs, even from in-game, that prove the resistance is something born from a game mechanic in the first place itself.

TL;DR- The type standards for the most part are fine, but flying types being considered in having a resistance to earth manipulation is not. There is no real resistance at all, so any Pokemon pages like Charizard that have resistance for being a flying type need to get it removed.

 

[Sniper670]

After reading it.... Yeah I'm fine with this. It was head scratching when I joined the wiki and saw that

 

[Pikaman]

There’s quite a lot wrong with this thread and some of it is blatant headcanon at a glance, I’ll go more in depth later but I strong disagree for now

 

[Pikaman]

Anyways the following staff voted for these standards to initially be used, they should probably be contacted (I already contacted FinePoint on their wall seeing as they made the standards in the first place)

SamanPatou, Elizhaa, Colonel_Krukov, ElixirBlue, KingTempest, GyroNutz, Psychomaster35, DragonGamerZ913, Amelia_Lonelyheart, Antoniofer

 

[Bobsican]

I also agree with the OP.

 

[FinePoint]

There is a lot of inconsistency if you consider the anime, such as all the famous examples of Ash's Pokémon damaging Ground Types with Electric Type moves. The games are the primary canon, and they demonstrate universally that outside of special exceptions, even Ground Type moves which shoot a projectile (Mud Shot) have no effect on flying types, whether they're literally flying or not.

I'm sorry, but I simply don't agree.
There is way more evidence for resistance than for not, and those other items don't really debunk anything.
Everything in Pokémon attempts to explain itself in some logical way, that does not mean we can simply discredit the fact that outside of the anime where PIS is rampant, Ground Type moves never harm a flying type unless they're a special move like Thousand Arrows or some other special effect is in play.

 

[Pikaman]

Using Anime evidence is also a bit disingenuous since inconsistencies like the one mentioned above are being used as evidence to split profiles for Game/Anime/Manga, of course they’re lacking in consistency with the game

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

There is a lot of inconsistency if you consider the anime, such as all the famous examples of Ash's Pokémon damaging Ground Types with Electric Type moves.

This was addressed multiple times already, its a non argument. This only happened in the anime as back as the first 2 seasons when the anime was super gag like and wasn't taking itself seriously. This was retconned out of the anime for decades now. Ground type immunity to electric moves is blatantly existent in the anime.

The games are the primary canon, and they demonstrate universally that outside of special exceptions, even Ground Type moves which shoot a projectile (Mud Shot) have no effect on flying types, whether they're literally flying or not.

And in that very same primary canon, flying types lose this so called resistance when literally losing their ability to fly and become grounded. Notice how you only brought up one single move, while every single other ground type move works perfectly when this happens.

Not to mention, since it's a projectile, that makes it just as easy for flying types to avoid this by being in the air as it's not a ranged move.

There is way more evidence for resistance than for not, and those other items don't really debunk anything.

One move potentially working while literally every other move failing, and items that enable that exact same "immunity" by flying, is not "way more" evidence of the resistance being a thing.

Everything in Pokémon attempts to explain itself in some logical way, that does not mean we can simply discredit the fact that outside of the anime where PIS is rampant, Ground Type moves never harm a flying type unless they're a special move like Thousand Arrows or some other special effect is in play.

The anime doesn't even need to be used, the game by itself debunks flying types having this supposed resistance. Ground types never harm flying types because of them not having contact with the ground, simple as that.

And thanks for mentioning Thousand Arrows, which is the only ground type attack that is specifically mentioned to be able to hit flying types. Looking at the depiction of the move that it literally shoots the attack into the sky, hitting ungrounded pokemon that fly makes sense.

 

[Bobsican]

I mean, the games also have status effects being unable to stack and Miltank being faster than Dialga and Necrozma.
Especially for a turn based RPG series, it's quite blatant that Flying types being "immune" to Ground type moves is just based on them dodging the move, which is just broadened to virtually all moves of that type for the sake of gameplay, especially with how that's about the only typing viably holding back Ground defensively in competitive, let alone how any moves that "remove" this "immunity" clearly relying on making the opponent becoming grounded.

 

[FinePoint]

(Argument)

Well, I think you make good points, but I ultimately feel like you're still relying on speculation.
We have evidence that ground type moves don't work on flying types from the primary canon.
We have evidence from the non-primary canon that sometimes they do.
We have evidence that certain items or effects cancel this immunity, which I simply view as irrelevant.

While I find myself not entirely convinced, it is not strongly so, so I suppose you can consider me neutral for now.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well, I think you make good points, but I ultimately feel like you're still relying on speculation.

Im not seeing whats speculative about what certain moves and items are confirmed to be able to do to get flying types hit by what theyre supposed to be immune to.

We have evidence that ground type moves don't work on flying types from the primary canon.

We know they don't work on them in the games, the point is going deeper to discover why they don't work.

We have evidence that certain items or effects cancel this immunity, which I simply view as irrelevant.

It's not even canceling an immunity. It's just knocking them to the ground so that they can be hit.

 

[FinePoint]

Im not seeing whats speculative about what certain moves and items are confirmed to be able to do to get flying types hit by what theyre supposed to be immune to.

We know they don't work on them in the games, the point is going deeper to discover why they don't work.

Yes, and that is the part which requires speculation.
I can see the logic behind your reasons, but the possibility that those items negate resistances is also possible, even if more abstract.

 

[Ayewale]

Not attempting to change much here on this, so im just going to cut to the chase. The standards for Pokemon Typing need revising, because some of what's allowed from pokemon typing is straight up nonsense.

Now, for the most part, the type standards are fine. For us to be equalizing resistances to things like fire type moves as resisting fire and heat manipulation, water type moves being a resistance to water manipulation, or electric type moves as electricity manipulation, they are not an issue. Some of it is pretty straightforward. The real issue, however, is the type immunities and the relationships between them. And the immunity that needs to be removed from every Pokemon page that has it, are flying type pokemon resisting earth manipulation because of their "immunity" to ground type moves.

And I put quotations around "immunity" because this is, in fact, not a real immunity or resistance like the other typing's provide. Simply put, its a result of game mechanics. The resistance doesn't exist for flying pokemon in the first place outside of in-gameplay, meaning? It's not a real resistance. This is something that has come up before in the past, but the only actual reason why Flying Type Pokemon are considered "immune" to ground type moves is strictly because flying type pokemon are not in contact with the ground. They are in mid air, so they are out of a ground type moves range of effect, which makes them "immune". But this is not an actual legitimate immunity or resistance in the sense that the flying type was actually hit with the attack and resisted it. Even when looking at one canon source when it comes to this, there's a plethora of evidence that shows this immunity is only because of being aerial.

In the games, we have a number of things proving being aerial is how flying types are "immune" to ground type moves.

• The ability Levitate, used by some pokemon like Gengar, negates ground type attacks by floating in the air.
• Magnet Rise, a move that grants the user "immunity" to ground type attacks by rising into the air.
• Items like the air balloon, which allows the user to be "immune" to ground attacks by floating in the air.
• Items like the iron ball, which makes the user vulnerable to ground type attacks by making them incapable of flying while holding it.
• Gravity, a move that increases gravity to make flying type Pokemon grounded by making them incapable of flying, making them vulnerable to ground type attacks.

All of these show that an immunity to ground type moves only exists because of not having contact with the ground, and the fact that being grounded to restrict flight or having contact with the ground literally makes you susceptible to them, is even further evidence for this. Otherwise, being forced to remain on the ground wouldn't negate something thats supposed to be a natural resistance. Unless of course you want to consider things like Gravity as some kind of resistance negation, which is just ridiculous. Even non-flying type pokemon like Gengar or any Pokemon holding an item that lets them fly like the air balloon get the "immunity" to ground moves, proving further that this immunity is simply avoiding it by being in the air. It is not a real immunity and thinking it is is just nonsensical.

In addition to that, another damning piece of evidence to debunk this resistance being a thing is the fact that, even by Pokemon's weird typing relationship rules, a flying type pokemon is somehow supposedly "immune" to ground attacks......yet they are considered weak against rock type attacks. And yes, im arguing against ground and earth being somehow considered 2 different typings. There's literally no explicit difference between rock and ground, they're literally the same thing. Why should we consider these 2 as two distinctly different types all because Pokemon mechanics dictate so? Both types are plainly associated with manipulating the ground and earth. This case is not the same thing as like with Water and Ice types where, while ice is technically the same attribute as water, it counts as different because it's a different form of water and has different effects. Rock and ground have no such relationship like this, thinking they do just because of a mechanic separating the 2 into types is baseless and just genuinely stupid.

"B-but flying type pokemon have been shown perched to the ground before and still haven't gotten effected by ground type moves!"

Avatar misrepresentation, and a blatant abuse of in-game mechanics to a stupid degree, incase this comes up. Flying types appearing they're "perched" on the ground when in battles is largely because of the sprites in-game not being animated like they have been in recent gens. Do you seriously think a flying type sits in a stationary position facing their opponent, only flies when using a move, and then goes back to that position when not attacking or when they're getting attacked? That is text book turn based play. Even the opening of Red and Blue Version showed two Pokémon dodging attacks and moving around more than the avatars do.

On top of this, not only are flying type pokemon more consistently animated to be flying rather than just "sitting" on the ground, but appearing to just be "standing up" doesn't mean they're grounded. It's like saying Pikachu in Brilliant Diamond / Shining Pearl has damage transferal because he can damage you using double kick without actually being shown kicking you. Instead. he jumps up and down in the same spot he's in instead of physically going to the opponent and kicking them. But that doesn't mean anything, and neither would this point on being perched.

Everything so far is just from what the games have provided us too. This gets even more damning if we include the anime, where flying types like Ash's Charizard gets effected by magnitude by Gary's Golem, or when Ash's Staraptor gets effected by toxic spikes from Paul's Drapion. And why? Because both were in contact with the ground to receive the effects of both moves. Arguing against the idea that flying types don't have an actual legitimate resistance requires you to take the in-game treatment of Pokemon types to a very big degree and ignore a plethora of proofs, even from in-game, that prove the resistance is something born from a game mechanic in the first place itself.

TL;DR- The type standards for the most part are fine, but flying types being considered in having a resistance to earth manipulation is not. There is no real resistance at all, so any Pokemon pages like Charizard that have resistance for being a flying type need to get it removed.

Seems fine. Shouldn’t this wait until the other CRT is accepted/denied?

 

[ZetaMarishi]

Agree with OP, this has always been a bit weird to me considering stuff like Air Balloon exists and gives the same immunity to ground type moves.

 

[Sniper670]

I mean, Bone Club, in a practical scenario will do some bad things to flying types

 

[Bobsican]

Most blatant case of the Ground "immunity" being by being airbone (and thus just dodging than a real resistance) comes with Telekinesis, as the move just forces the opponent to be airbone to be easier to hit, which in itself would raise even more questions if it was a real resistance and such mons couldn't be hit by stuff like Bonemerang and Mud Slap even in otherwise more favorable circumstances.

 

[FinePoint]

So, I went through all the moves and found this.
The following is Ground-Type moves which should logically harm flying types, but do not:

Bone Club, Bone Rush, Bonemerang, G-Max Sandblast, Headlong Rush, High Horsepower, Mud Shot, Mud Bomb, Mud-Slap, Sandsear Storm, Scorching Sands

And I don't follow the argument that "well flying types can't be attacked because they can dodge easily", because this is directly contradicted by every normal and flying-type move that can hit them.

In reconsideration of this evidence, I will again have to move to a strong disagreement.

 

[Sniper670]

This will be easier if we could find a ground type vs flying type scenario in the anime or manga

 

[Antoniofer]

With most of nonsense typing in Pokemon I'm kind of suprised that peopple didn't take flying pkm being immune to ground attacks far-fetched; like, there're even few ground attacks that are projectiles and such, how is a bird inmune to a flying bone boomerang but then severely injured by a flying rock?

 

[FinePoint]

With most of nonsense typing in Pokemon I'm kind of suprised that peopple didn't take flying pkm being immune to ground attacks far-fetched; like, there're even few ground attacks that are projectiles and such, how is a bird inmune to a flying bone boomerang but then severely injured by a flying rock?

Because one is using energy from Arceus's Stone Plate, while the other is using energy from Arceus's Earth Plate.

 

[Antoniofer]

Then why, when suddely a pkm is dragged to they ground throw Gravity or Smack Down, suddely affected normally by ground-type attacks?

 

[FinePoint]

Then why, when suddely a pkm is dragged to they ground throw Gravity or Smack Down, suddely affected normally by ground-type attacks?

Pokémon moves do a lot of weird things, and negating resistances is one of them.
They're all somewhat thematic, I don't think that's cause for us to assume they're perfectly normal phenomenon when we know for a fact they all draw from supernatural energy, even the Normal Type moves.

 

[Antoniofer]

So pkm that are grounded suddely have their resistance to ground suddenly negated because the the attack that drag to the surface conveniently possesses Immunity Negation? Is it not more reasonable to say they turn vulnerable to ground attacks because they are within reach now?

And what about the move Magnet Rise and the item Air Ballum? They do not only grant the capability to elavate through the ground but also grant immunity to an specific type of energy?

 

[FinePoint]

So pkm that are grounded suddely have their resistance to ground suddenly negated because the the attack that drag to the surface conveniently possesses Immunity Negation? Is it not more reasonable to say they turn vulnerable to ground attacks because they are within reach now?

And what about the move Magnet Rise and the item Air Ballum? They do not only grant the capability to elavate through the ground but also grant immunity to an specific type of energy?

Well, friend, how does wearing a sash allow you to survive a hit no matter what?
Why does wearing a vest not allow them to use status moves?

Pokémon gain special abilities from a lot of random items. Again, I don't think the thematic aspect should discredit how it's clearly demonstrated to work in-verse.

We do not make a distinction between rocks and ground, but Pokémon does, and their distinction of the elements is more important than ours.

 

[Chariot190]

Well, friend, how does wearing a sash allow you to survive a hit no matter what?

Because that's what that item does, that's the power it has. Just like how every other item does what it does.
The items listed above simply make things heavy so they get grounded, or float as that's what they're said to do, nothing more, nothing less. They don't do what you're saying they do lad.

 

[FinePoint]

Because that's what that item does, that's the power it has. Just like how every other item does what it does.
The items listed above simply make things heavy so they get grounded, or float as that's what they're said to do, nothing more, nothing less. They don't do what you're saying they do lad.

They do, though. I can prove it.
Equip a Pokémon with an air balloon, and it will be immune to ground type moves that should logically hit something in the air.
I have evidence, and you do not. You are making assumptions, I am not.

 

[Chariot190]

They do, though. I can prove it.
Equip a Pokémon with an air balloon, and it will be immune to ground type moves that should logically hit something in the air.
I have evidence, and you do not. You are making assumptions, I am not.

Ok now find a statement that says that, because nothing says that, implies that, and what not. That isn't evidence either tbh, if anything I'd argue that's a blatant case of arguing game mechanics. The game is programmed so flying types don't get hit by ground moves, simply because that's how the type system is implemented and coded, it's not like they check off a box for each ground type, hell it took them like ten years to implement the special/physical split at that, they have a precedent for just kinda simplifying shit.
And to corroborate that, it's the exact same thing with levitate. Levitate, the mere ability of just levitating, nothing else, merely becoming airborne. Makes the mon in question completely immune to all ground type moves, precisely because it's above ground, not because it has flying type energy.

Also I'd ask you to cut it the **** out with lines like "you are making assumptions, I am not".

 

[Antoniofer]

Magnet Rise and Air Ballum do not makes you flying type, it makes you fly/levitate, so is not "flying types are immune to ground energy", but rather "people flying are immune to ground energy"; that is an awfully specific weakness for ground energy, or that flying types are immune to ground type just because they are out of reach. Moves like Bonemerang and Mud Bomb not affecting flying types despite being ranged attacks are more a concequence of Game Mechanic not reflecting the "reality" of the world good for the sake of balancing.

 

[FinePoint]

I do not think it's game mechanics.
It would be extremely trivial to implement a mechanic for all ranged ground moves to hit flying types, and the code already exists in Thousand Arrows, they could literally just copy-paste.

 

[Chariot190]

Also, if memory serves, isn't there ACTUALLY moves, abilities, and items that can change the type of the mon? If those items did that, they literally would. There's also moves that get rid of typings, like soak, yet Gravity doesn't remove the flying type? It just makes them grounded, everything else still in play like flying STAB and other weaknesses?

Also roost.

 

[FinePoint]

Also, if memory serves, isn't there ACTUALLY moves, abilities, and items that can change the type of the mon? If those items did that, they literally would. There's also moves that get rid of typings, like soak, yet Gravity doesn't remove the flying type? It just makes them grounded, everything else still in play like flying STAB and other weaknesses?

Also roost.

Well, removing flying type has consequences beyond ground-type interactions. Gravity doesn't, for example, change how effective electric is. Just removing the flying type also wouldn't account for levitate.

Also I'd ask you to cut it the **** out with lines like "you are making assumptions, I am not".

No. I will not change my argument for your sake.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

So pkm that are grounded suddely have their resistance to ground suddenly negated because the the attack that drag to the surface conveniently possesses Immunity Negation? Is it not more reasonable to say they turn vulnerable to ground attacks because they are within reach now?

Exactly the reason why im not seeing much of a counter from those moves.

So, I went through all the moves and found this.
The following is Ground-Type moves which should logically harm flying types, but do not:

Bone Club and Bone Rush are easily explainable. Since they're signature moves of the Cubone line, pokemon who don't fly, these are moves that are out of range with flying types who are in the sky and don't have the range to hit them. Same thing with Boomerang.

Headlong Rush is also the same thing, as the only pokemon who use them, Torterra and Ursaluna, who cannot fly or reach flying types wouldnt be able to hit them. The move is a physical tackle, something easily dodgeable by an aerial opponent.

High Horsepower is the same thing.

The only ones that make some amount of sense are the projectile type ones like mudslap or mud bomb, but that too can be summed up to the moves simply not having the range to hit flying types who are able to simply fly out of their range and dodge them easily mid air.

Something else to consider is that Thousand Arrows, a projectile ground type move, is the only one out of these projectile ground moves that is confirmed to have the effect of effecting flying types, and considering the depiction of it is to fire them into the sky, this can be argued for T.A. to have better range than the former projectile attacks.

And even then, at the worst, these clash of moves show how remarkably inconsistent the flying type's resistance to ground is.

 

[FinePoint]

And even then, at the worst, these clash of moves show how remarkably inconsistent the flying type's resistance to ground is.

That this is all very inconsistent is not something I will argue against, friend.
That is why I think it's safer to follow the evidence directly presented, especially since it's supported by the idea that Ground Type moves come from the Earth Plate.

If we start trying to interpret the moves literally like that, you run into even more massive inconsistencies with the plethora of normal and fighting moves which hit flying types despite having no logical reason to if they are flying high up.

 

[FinePoint]

Also:
Doduo

It does not fly nor levitate, but is immune to Ground type moves.

 

[Chariot190]

I do not think it's game mechanics.
It would be extremely trivial to implement a mechanic for all ranged ground moves to hit flying types, and the code already exists in Thousand Arrows, they could literally just copy-paste.

trivial implementation.

Yes, Game Freak not implementing things they should, next question.

And no, because that'd invalidate that move, and would **** with the already massively established formula that's existed since day 1, nerf flying types an uneeded amount, buff the already strong ground type by invalidating one of its counters, hell dude I could go on.

Matter of the fact is, they're immune, contextually and functionally, as corroborated by every single item, move and so on that manipulates being airborne withing altering types or energy, being they above ground.

No. I will not change my argument for your sake.

It was more me saying cut it out with the remarks, I didn't ask you to change your argument.
But I am now, your argument is wrong, objectively, sorry, you're making numerous wild speculative assumptions here. The things you claim do not transpire, you can say they do but matter of the fact is they do not. This is directly corroborated by numerous items, abilities and moves. And given you've argued that "thousand arrows does this, they could just copy paste the code", I'll take that to mean you don't mind if I point out the fact there's moves and what not that DO manipulate typings and it would be easy for them to have the items and moves and what not effect the flying type in question as well, by removing or adding it to the effected mon instead, right?

Well, removing flying type has consequences beyond ground-type interactions. Gravity doesn't, for example, change how effective electric is. Just removing the flying type also wouldn't account for levitate.

Nah, you can't have your cake and eat it too, you're cherry picking. And so? You're arguing that gravity effects the typing as a whole? It shouldn't matter if it has effects beyond ground type moves being effected like lightning and bug moves or what not, because your argument is that gravity effects the flying type, if that's what the moves does, then it has to actually showcase that yeah?
And what does it matter what Levitate does? By your argument, Levitate should have built in flying energy too, which is why it's immune to ground moves that also hit airborne stuff.

 

[Chariot190]

Also:
Doduo

It does not fly nor levitate, but is immune to Ground type moves.

Take that back right this instant.

 

[FinePoint]

Take that back right this instant.

Outside of using the move Fly, lol.

 

[Chariot190]

I'd argue that's being semantical. You know well why Doduo is immune.

Regardless, you haven't actually countered any of the above. I'm willing to say like 20+ corroborating items, moves, abilities, all of which explicitly do not alter the typing itself of the afflicted mon while having explicit usages and effects explained through blatant text, outweigh funny meme bird go brrrr. Honestly, I'd argue it could happen with like five more flying type mons too and it still wouldn't be enough.

 

[FinePoint]

Nah, you can't have your cake and eat it too, you're cherry picking. And so? You're arguing that gravity effects the typing as a whole? It shouldn't matter if it has effects beyond ground type moves being effected like lightning and bug moves or what not, because your argument is that gravity effects the flying type, if that's what the moves does, then it has to actually showcase that yeah?
And what does it matter what Levitate does? By your argument, Levitate should have built in flying energy too, which is why it's immune to ground moves that also hit airborne stuff.

I was just replying to the implication that Smack Down and Soak were basically the same thing, when they are not, so I don't see the point in comparing them.
Levitate does not have flying energy. It's an ability, which do all sorts of illogical things. I could give you a very long list.

I don't follow this "Gamefreak would if they could, but they don't, despite having the code, because they're bad developers, and this is well known." It's all just so much speculation about intentions you have no way of knowing. What we have for a fact is what's in the game, and it's not this theoretical you're pushing.

 

[FinePoint]

Anyways, I sense this argument becoming repetitive.
I will stop replying and wait for more input.