Minor Lancer of Black Revision

[Yobo_Blue]

The true effect of the ability is not to "create stakes", but rather that the Noble Phantasm itself is "stakes stabbed into the enemy." Once the enemy has received an attack within his territory, it matters not how much the body of the enemy is fortified because the stakes manifest in the state of "already having pierced the enemy." Originating from the enemy's heart and piercing outward, there is no way to avoid them with speed because the attack manifests as "already ending."

Wouldn't this give Lancer Causality Manipulation and Durability Negation as they start as having "already pierced the foe" and "have already ended"?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Causality i'm unsure, dura negation yeah kinda agree about it.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Seeing as it took thousands to scratch Karna through his armor and Vlad just shish kebab'd him with three piercing the armor with ease, I agree on the dura neg for sure. Causality should be fine as well since it is worded the same as Gae Bolg.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Durability negation seems fine, I think Emiya Alter has durability negation for a similar reason.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Agree with both.

Surprised dura negation wasn't already on the profile, though Causality manip is understandable.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

""You don't fear facing my country by yourself, as expected of a hero—I have already punished you three times over for that arrogance. Yes… My stakes have pierced you three times in total. Therefore, you will die here."

"—!?" Feeling dread suddenly hit his body, Lancer of Red immediately attempted to jump back—but it was no longer an issue of being slow or fast. It was already in the past. The attack was already ending…!

"You guessed quickly. Yes, my Kaziklu Bey: Lord of Execution isn't a Noble Phantasm that creates stakes. It's the 'stakes stabbed into the enemy' themselves that are the Noble Phantasm. As long as you're within this territory of mine, no matter how much you fortify your body, if it is a fact that you have received an attack from me—"

Within Lancer of Red's body, something was swelling up with violent force. Hard, sharp, repulsively cold, it was—

"Stakes, huh…""

"The golden armor that clad Karna's body could protect against stakes, blades, hammers, or any kind of attack regardless of whether it was physical or magical. However—attacks from within his body were a single exception. Furthermore, these stakes were manifesting in the state of already having pierced him...

Blood trickled down from the three stakes stabbing into him very quickly. This was probably Karna's first experience of receiving damage while clad in that armor. (Fate/Apocrypha: Volume 2 - Chapter 3-5)"

Yeah this sounds about right.

 

[John985]

Yeah agree with durability negation. Well the wording of causuality is almost the same as Gae Bolg.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Agree with both Dura Neg and Casuality.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I agree with both

 

[Yobo_Blue]

So, I assume this can be added?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

This would also apply to Berserker as well, right?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Berserker's works differently doesnt it

 

[Yobo_Blue]

We could add a "possibly"

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Yeah, that seems fair

 

[Yobo_Blue]

So this could be added?

(I assume this applies to Fate/Extra Vlad in the same manner as Berserker)

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I will add this if there are no issues then.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I've updated the pages.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Also, I'm fairly certain all three should have Danmaku

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I agree with that. You should go ahead and add it

 

[BLACKWATHERRR]

No, he doesn't have Durability Negation

It's more like a figure of speech that no matter how fast you are, as long you are in Romania territory you guaranteed to get stabbed

His ability that Pierce Karna armor has different mechanic and method

"Though the power of each individual stake is low, they deal additional continuous damage through "penetration" for some time after even one of them is stabbed into the enemy. Furthermore, if his spear hits the enemy even once, it will cause stakes to be created from within the enemy's body and pierce them from inside out. When this happens, nothing can be done, and the enemy will end up suffering in excruciating pain until they die."

Which mean he need to hit his enemy with his spear first to activate this effect.

Also it's only work on Karna because his armor only protect from outside. Servant like Heracles or Achilles will not be effective

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Attacking from the inside ignores durability.

Where did you get that quote from? it contradicts what happened in the original work I am pretty sure.

Hercules' protection is also only on the outside

 

[BLACKWATHERRR]

The reason why it can penetrate karma's armor is because that its weakness. It can only protect Karna from the outside not inside.

Fate/Apocrypha Material

Heracles's protection is his whole body. His very own body is blessed (cursed) with invulnerablity. Unlike Karna who is wearing a skin armor

"The immortality obtained by means of the blessing (curse) of the gods. It transforms his body into a robust armor." (FGO material book I)

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Godhand is bound to the skin tho. Don't forget that a similar thing was done to bypass Godhand's addaptive immunity. Archer used his sword blast while it was still within Herc's body to take out all of his remaining lives at once

 

[BLACKWATHERRR]

Any attack with A rank can bypass it. Also his addaptive immunity only work against an attack he has experience, which mean even with the same weapon you can still bypass it as long you use different kind of attack (Ex. Shirou in Heaven Feel manage to kill multiple Life Heracles with the same weapon via Nine Life) Also, in any material it's always stated that his whole body gain immunity. I mean if that not the case, Cu won't have to buff his Gae Bolg to A rank just to kill him.

Kinda OOT and that case is different than this discussion.

What I'm trying to said just because Vlad can penetrate Karma's armor from inside doesn't mean he has Durability Negation.

It like saying "Excalibur has Durability Negation because it can bypass Achilles's Andreias Amarantos" or "servant with A rank STR has Durability Negation because that servant can bypass Heracles's Godhand invulnerablity".

Any attack come from inside out can harm Karna

 

[AnonymousBlank]

The argument isnt that it dura negs because it pierces KK, its that it dura negs since it attacks the organs directly and ignores any outward durability.

Even the piercing of KK can be argued since it still pierces the armor. That statement just means it can bloack any attack from outside but cant from the inside since the attack doesnt need to interact with the armor. The armor would still have the 90% DR though, meaning KB just ignored its dura and conceptual hax.

 

[BLACKWATHERRR]

The argument isnt that it dura negs because it pierces KK, its that it dura negs since it attacks the organs directly and ignores any outward durability.

Even the piercing of KK can be argued since it still pierces the armor. That statement just means it can bloack any attack from outside but cant from the inside since the attack doesnt need to interact with the armor. The armor would still have the 90% DR though, meaning KB just ignored its dura and conceptual hax.

Ohh, I'm sorry. I guess I misunderstood it. I thought DurNeg is something like it ignore any defensive ability (like it ignore God Hand or Andreias Amarantos invulnerability regardless of any situation). If that not the case, then I guess I agree Vlad has that ability

But according to Apo Material, he need to hit his opponent first with his spear (not stakes) to active that ability

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I agree with OP on both

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I always thought of it more like a Conceptual Weapon than causality tbh. Conceptual Weapons in nasuverse apply a concept to the enemy and the description of the ability made me think the concept being applied to them here was "impaled"

 

[Yobo_Blue]

It's entirely possible for a power to be considered more than one ability.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Also, based on the quote, it was partially the fact that the stakes came in from the inside, but based on the quote's wording Karna would have been impaled anyway because of the spear's properties.