Minor God of War Removal

[LordGriffin1000]

We are not told how he lost his legs. Just that, at some undefined point is his life, he loses his legs,

We're only really told that he would've died violently and Atropos changed that to him living a full life with a healthy mind but no legs.

So, I guess my next question is, how have their other hax work in visuals before or after this moment. Like if they fated someone to be set on fire, did that person get set on fire by another/possibly act or magically set on fire? Like how do their powers kick in because if they've spontaneously happen regardless of an act then I'd say biological manipulation is more than possible.

I guess for an example from a verse I know, Belioune from Okage Shadow King has Classification which dumbed down allows him to manipulate the fate of others. He Classified a vampire to have his power cut in half and at the final moment in battle, his power immediately got cut in half without any warning, no logically action from another was needed to cut his power, it just happened. So I'm asking, when they use their fate hax, "can" things spontaneously happen.

 

[KLOL506]

So, I guess my next question is, how have their other hax work in visuals before or after this moment. Like if they fated someone to be set on fire, did that person get set on fire by another/possibly act or magically set on fire? Like how do their powers kick in because if they've spontaneously happen regardless of an act then I'd say biological manipulation is more than possible.

I guess for an example from a verse I know, Belioune from Okage Shadow King has Classification which dumbed down allows him to manipulate the fate of others. He Classified a vampire to have his power cut in half and at the final moment in battle, his power immediately got cut in half without any warning, no logically action from another was needed to cut his power, it just happened. So I'm asking, when they use their fate hax, "can" things spontaneously happen.

Yeah, they can. The Sisters can sink continents just for the hell of it. They can kill someone instantly just by stroking a Thread of Fate, without even having to snip it.

 

[Quibster]

I think Fuji's skepticism is justified to an extent.

We're only really told that he would've died violently and Atropos changed that to him living a full life with a healthy mind but no legs.

I think it's a slippery slope to assume that because he lived a healthy life after losing his legs, that it would be attributed to some form of Bio Manip and not just, living as a disabled individual? I genuinely don't understand the connection to Bio Manip in this instance, but such is debating.

Edit: Are there any other instances of Bio Manip occurring that could serve as support for this rating?

 

[KLOL506]

I think Fuji's skepticism is justified to an extent.



I think it's a slippery slope to assume that because he lived a healthy life after losing his legs, that it would be attributed to some form of Bio Manip and not just, living as a disabled individual? I genuinely don't understand the connection to Bio Manip in this instance, but such is debating

The Sisters dictate how mortals live from being in the womb to the very end of their lives. It wouldn't be out of the ordinary for them to deem a baby having disabilities. They can sink continents on a whim as part of their jobs.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

The scan makes it seem like the legs magically disappeared. Disagree FRA.

Also, it being Fate Manipulation wouldn't even exclude it also being Biological Manipulation.

 

[Deagonx]

We're only really told that he would've died violently and Atropos changed that to him living a full life with a healthy mind but no legs.

No, she did not change that. The "full live with healthy mind and no legs" is the violent fate. Read the text again:

Her finger stroked the thread of destiny attached to the young king that had caught her eye before and produced a violent fate for the mortal affixed to the far end.

Atropos plucked at the thread so expertly that a huge ripple followed it. She smiled at the desired fate delivered to the young ruler. He would reach old age, yes, with all his wit and intelligence, but her single design dictated that he would do so without legs. Exploring his character now would certainly break the sameness of their woven fates. It was good to pioneer new destinies for mortals.

She never undoes the violent fate. She says earlier that the inescapable fate she had in store for him was "war" and that was his "new path to destruction." She starts out the chapter expressing concern about his life getting cut short due to slacked thread, and says of mortal destinies "I worry about the length I afford them. It always seems so limited."

He did have a violent destiny and path to destruction, but his life was not cut short by that because she tired of giving them short lives. She was very clear that he could not escape his fate/path to destruction of "war" which means him losing his legs is best interpreted as being from the war, not a random unmentioned magic spell that removes his legs without some causal factor in his actual life/destiny removing them. They're plucking strings on a weave of destiny, why wouldn't we interpret this as being part of how they manipulate the direction of his life, and choose instead to interpret it as Atropos just crudely removing his legs herself wholesale? That runs contrary to the basic concept involved, and there's nothing in the text to support it in the first place.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

So, I guess my next question is, how have their other hax work in visuals before or after this moment. Like if they fated someone to be set on fire, did that person get set on fire by another/possibly act or magically set on fire? Like how do their powers kick in because if they've spontaneously happen regardless of an act then I'd say biological manipulation is more than possible.

I guess for an example from a verse I know, Belioune from Okage Shadow King has Classification which dumbed down allows him to manipulate the fate of others. He Classified a vampire to have his power cut in half and at the final moment in battle, his power immediately got cut in half without any warning, no logically action from another was needed to cut his power, it just happened. So I'm asking, when they use their fate hax, "can" things spontaneously happen.

I'd ask that you read Deagonx's breakdown, posted above, since I think it explains the feat much better.

Anyways, there is no consistent depiction of how long their powers take to affect a person. Sometimes it is immediate, other times it can be years in advance. We are not given a timeframe for this particular instance (just "before old age", I suppose).

The Sisters dictate how mortals live from being in the womb to the very end of their lives. It wouldn't be out of the ordinary for them to deem a baby having disabilities. They can sink continents on a whim as part of their jobs.

This goes against your statement to LordGriffin, where you postured that their decreed fates take place the very instant they are woven and not years ahead of time. Obviously, dictating the end of someone's life while they aren't even born yet would be planning ahead of time, so we can't just assume "everything they do happens the very instant they choose to make it happen" (especially since uh, that's not really how fate works most of the time).

We have no timeframe here, so don't assume one. That said, I think Deagonx's reading of the text makes far more sense here.

 

[BlastX]

There's more support for this in the same chapter hilariously enough.
https://imgur.com/gallery/xSamqQW

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

There's more support for this in the same chapter hilariously enough.

https://imgur.com/gallery/xSamqQW

https://imgur.com/gallery/xSamqQW

This isn't bio hax. This is making people fall in love and then toying with the fates of the children they have.

 

[Planck69]

This isn't bio hax. This is making people fall in love and then toying with the fates of the children they have.

She's talking about how they breed improbable lovers together, like a demigod and a living cloud having offspring.

That same chapter, she turns a single conception into twins.

 

[KLOL506]

This goes against your statement to LordGriffin, where you postured that their decreed fates take place the very instant they are woven and not years ahead of time. Obviously, dictating the end of someone's life while they aren't even born yet would be planning ahead of time, so we can't just assume "everything they do happens the very instant they choose to make it happen" (especially since uh, that's not really how fate works most of the time).

The Sisters of Fate can do literally anything with the Threads of Fate, they can change your Fate from what was decreed to whatever they want. You act like the Threads being conceived is where their Threads have the Fates written in stone, when it's not.

 

[CloverDragon03]

She's talking about how they breed improbable lovers together, like a demigod and a living cloud having offspring.

That same chapter, she turns a single conception into twins.

Yeah uh...

That's pretty clear Biological Manipulation ngl

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

The Sisters of Fate can do literally anything with the Threads of Fate, they can change your Fate from what was decreed to whatever they want.

I uh, never disagreed with this?

She's talking about how they breed improbable lovers together, like a demigod and a living cloud having offspring.

There is, again, no evidence of biological hax at play here. Just bringing an unlikely couple together. There's not even an implication that they somehow warped the biology of these two characters so they could have children (don't gods in GoW have shapeshifting, anyways?)

That same chapter, she turns a single conception into twins.

Is there a source for this or nah

 

[Planck69]

I uh, never disagreed with this?

There is, again, no evidence of biological hax at play here. Just bringing an unlikely couple together. There's not even an implication that they somehow warped the biology of these two characters so they could have children (don't gods in GoW have shapeshifting, anyways?)

Is there a source for this or nah

....Them specifically making it so a demigod and a cloud having kids is not tampering with how that would normally work? Or animals and humans? Not at all?

The same chapter as the above, if just a few paragraphs below it, hang on, I'll post it in a few minutes.

 

[Deagonx]

So, I guess my next question is, how have their other hax work in visuals before or after this moment. Like if they fated someone to be set on fire, did that person get set on fire by another/possibly act or magically set on fire? Like how do their powers kick in because if they've spontaneously happen regardless of an act then I'd say biological manipulation is more than possible.

I guess for an example from a verse I know, Belioune from Okage Shadow King has Classification which dumbed down allows him to manipulate the fate of others. He Classified a vampire to have his power cut in half and at the final moment in battle, his power immediately got cut in half without any warning, no logically action from another was needed to cut his power, it just happened. So I'm asking, when they use their fate hax, "can" things spontaneously happen.

In this case, Atropos says that the ruler can't escape the destiny she has in store for him, and Clotho asks if its a disease. This is the next line:

"War," insisted Atropos. "I have found a new path to destruction that is fitting for this particular character."
"She smiled at the desired fate delivered to the young ruler. He would reach old age, yes, with all his wit and intelligence, but her single design dictated that he would do so without legs. Exploring his character now would certainly break the sameness of their woven fates."

It's very obvious, IMO, that he loses his legs in war. I don't see how she would describe it as a "design" "path to destruction" or "woven fate" if it was just her directly cutting his legs off rather than a war he fights in at some point during his life.

That same chapter, she turns a single conception into twins.

That's pretty clear Biological Manipulation ngl

That's not what occurred.

"She worked on a dozen new threads, weaving them together and splitting another to birth twins, only to separate them, with each string going onto a different spool."

The "twins" are threads, thats what the entire sentence is about.

....Them specifically making it so a demigod and a cloud having kids is not tampering with how that would normally work? Or animals and humans? Not at all?

Nephele is a goddess, and in Greek mythology she is portrayed as a woman. Ixion and Nephele having kids is very much bog standard greek mythology.

 

[SYPHe5D]

Cook more

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

That's not what occurred.

"She worked on a dozen new threads, weaving them together and splitting another to birth twins, only to separate them, with each string going onto a different spool."

The "twins" are threads, thats what the entire sentence is about.

...Okay, nevermind what I asked, because this is very straightforward.

 

[KLOL506]

That's not what occurred.

"She worked on a dozen new threads, weaving them together and splitting another to birth twins, only to separate them, with each string going onto a different spool."

The "twins" are threads, thats what the entire sentence is about.

Bruv, that is blatant AF that a single conception is being turned into twins here. Each thread represents a mortal, how did you still not get this.

 

[Planck69]

Here ya go. Also, another scan for how they make animals and humans breed for amusement in there as well.

Edit: Mega ninja'd lol.

 

[CloverDragon03]

That's not what occurred.

"She worked on a dozen new threads, weaving them together and splitting another to birth twins, only to separate them, with each string going onto a different spool."

The "twins" are threads, thats what the entire sentence is about.

Judging by KLOL's and Planck's responses, that's... pretty evidently not the case. I'd be inclined to disagree with your interpretation here

 

[Quibster]

What

How did we get from "hey a king lived a normal life after atropos chopped his legs" to "nuh uh, the sisters made TWINS, see?" That isn't combat applicable at all??

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Also, another scan for how they make animals and humans breed for amusement in there as well

Edit: Mega ninja'd lol.

That doesn't really require bio hax lol, that's just uh... something that tends to happen in mythology. Hell, I'm pretty sure them making Pan irresistable would be an example of this, given how satyrs are depicted.

Bruv, that is blatant AF that a single conception is being turned into twins here. Each thread represents a mortal, how did you still not get this.

"She worked on a dozen new threads, weaving them together and splitting another to birth twins" the sentence is about the threads. What exactly is unclear here.

In any case, "can create twins" would just be an extension of their ability to create new life, no? Even then, it'd probably make their bio hax non-combat applicable, since uh... can't really imagine a scenario where making a pregnant woman have twins instead of just one child would be useful in a fight (unless Kratos was pregnant?).

 

[Planck69]

What

How did we get from "hey a king lived a normal life after atropos chopped his legs" to "nuh uh, the sisters made TWINS, see?"

We didn't. That first part I still stand by but BlastX brought up further support which we're discussing.

 

[KLOL506]

That doesn't really require bio hax lol, that's just uh... something that tends to happen in mythology.

The novel pretty much makes it blatant that the human-fish offspring happened because of them. Just because it's common in mythology doesn't mean it happens here in this scenario.

In any case, "can create twins" would just be an extension of their ability to create new life, no? Even then, it'd probably make their bio hax non-combat applicable, since uh... can't really imagine a scenario where making a pregnant woman have twins instead of just one child would be useful in a fight (unless Kratos was pregnant?).

They can weave threads to have any effect they want on their victims, like killing them instantly or making continents sink to the bottom of the ocean, WDYM this is combat inapplicable

 

[Deagonx]

Bruv, that is blatant AF that a single conception is being turned into twins here. Each thread represents a mortal, how did you still not get this.

No, it isn't. Not only is it not blatant, it's very clearly not what is being said at all.

Also, another scan for how they make animals and humans breed for amusement in there as well

Dictating a man's fate such that he ends up procreating with an animal is not biological manip unless you're suggesting that they personally are responsible for making it possible for hybrid man-animal offspring to be possible. But since this is greek mythology, with centaurs and satyrs etc, there's no reason to think that this is something they personally made possible rather than just being how the world works. It's greek mythology, it's not like they are constrained by human science.

Judging by KLOL's and Planck's responses, that's... pretty evidently not the case. I'd be inclined to disagree with your interpretation here

The sentence is describing the weaving of threads, not child birth. Every single other component of the sentence directly speaks to the manipulation of threads, and even the mention of "twins" is immediately spoken about in terms of how they are threads. It's a far fetched interpretation and nothing else in the text supports it. This is, just as in the Atropos case, a situation where we're interpreting something as an ability for the sake of giving someone an ability. The fact that we're talking about the textile metaphors of the Fates weaving destinies in terms of "biological manipulation" just means we've lost the thread, no pun intended.

 

[Deagonx]

They can weave threads to have any effect they want on their victims, like killing them instantly or making continents sink to the bottom of the ocean, WDYM this is combat inapplicable

She sunk a whole continent using war, she says this directly. She didn't just cast a "contintent sink" spell.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

we've lost the thread, no pun intended.

that was 100% intended

 

[Planck69]

Tbh yeah, we really should circle back to the first part.

The scans are good support to talk about but I'd rather we vote on the main thing before talking about the rest.

 

[Pepsimanslover_69]

Saying that "this is how Greek myths work" is a self contradicting argument, As the sisters of fate decide all things and how they work, the world works like this because the sisters decreed so, Not that it was innate.

In fact, We already see how a world without the sisters of fate looks, it'd be our world. Kratos literally saw world wars, Nukes and guns.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Saying that "this is how Greek myths work" is a self contradicting argument, As the sisters of fate decide all things and how they work, the world works like this because the sisters decreed so, Not that it was innate.

In fact, We already see how a world without the sisters of fate looks, it'd be our world. Kratos literally saw world wars, Nukes and guns.

That would be law manipulation, not biological.

 

[SYPHe5D]

This is slowly turning into an upgrade thread lol

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

This is slowly turning into an upgrade thread lol

way more accurate than slapping biological manip through massive extrapolation

 

[Planck69]

That doesn't really require bio hax lol, that's just uh... something that tends to happen in mythology. Hell, I'm pretty sure them making Pan irresistable would be an example of this, given how satyrs are depicted.

"She worked on a dozen new threads, weaving them together and splitting another to birth twins" the sentence is about the threads. What exactly is unclear here.

In any case, "can create twins" would just be an extension of their ability to create new life, no? Even then, it'd probably make their bio hax non-combat applicable, since uh... can't really imagine a scenario where making a pregnant woman have twins instead of just one child would be useful in a fight (unless Kratos was pregnant?).

I'm not even sure what to make of this, given it doesn't.... address anything? We know this is mythology based but the novel itself says that these are improbable unions that they make happen anyway.

Unless we're assuming that either mortals can just do this for reasons or that the Fates made it so mortals can interbreed with anything, given everything that ever happens is due to them.

 

[Pepsimanslover_69]

That would be law manipulation, not biological.

I get that, I simply brought it up as the argument against bio manipulation was that the world worked like that innately, I simply stated it to not be the case.

 

[SYPHe5D]

way more accurate than slapping biological manip through massive extrapolation

We are so back ong

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Anyways, there is no consistent depiction of how long their powers take to affect a person. Sometimes it is immediate, other times it can be years in advance. We are not given a timeframe for this particular instance (just "before old age", I suppose).

I'm not talking about timeframe, I'm taking a about the depiction.

He did have a violent destiny and path to destruction, but his life was not cut short by that because she tired of giving them short lives. She was very clear that he could not escape his fate/path to destruction of "war" which means him losing his legs is best interpreted as being from the war, not a random unmentioned magic spell that removes his legs without some causal factor in his actual life/destiny removing them. They're plucking strings on a weave of destiny, why wouldn't we interpret this as being part of how they manipulate the direction of his life, and choose instead to interpret it as Atropos just crudely removing his legs herself wholesale? That runs contrary to the basic concept involved, and there's nothing in the text to support it in the first place.

Technically in verse like God of War, I could easily believe that during the war he was in, she'd actively have his legs just be removed just like that. However, you make a fair point.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I get that, I simply brought it up as the argument against bio manipulation was that the world worked like that innately, I simply stated it to not be the case.

Their overall point was to show, they don't need to literally manipulate their biology to make them breed, as that takes more leaps than just seeing how the world and what it's based on already works with supernatural shit. They don't literally need to manipulate their biological functions to make them conceive, these elements are already present. They are simply dictating their actions (making them breed) and seeing what results from there, finding it amusing.

 

[Planck69]

Saying that "this is how Greek myths work" is a self contradicting argument, As the sisters of fate decide all things and how they work, the world works like this because the sisters decreed so, Not that it was innate.

In fact, We already see how a world without the sisters of fate looks, it'd be our world. Kratos literally saw world wars, Nukes and guns.

I will say that the visions Kratos had could very much just be what the Fates would've had in store had they let him remain a god.

We do see what happens in the novel when they're distracted. The world spins away into chaos and disorder without them maintaining order.

 

[Deagonx]

This really shouldn't be the subject of controversy. Atropos says (paraphrasing) "I have a fate in store for this mortal that he can't avoid. War." Then she complains about mortal lives being short, and plucks the string to give him a violent fate (the war she just mentioned), smiles at the fate she gave him and the narration notes "He'll reach old age, but without legs."

The obvious and straightforward interpretation is that he loses his legs in the war. Shunting in an awkward and context-ignorant manual removal of someone's legs to prevent this downgrade is not a good use of anyone's time. We shouldn't be abusing ambiguity in literary writing styles to give characters abilities they don't have.

The pivot to "Well what if they are personally responsible for humans and animals being biologically capable of breeding, and this isn't just an inherent aspect of the magical world where goddesses dictate people's lives by weaving threads?" is strange and borderline derailing.

Technically in verse like God of War, I could easily believe that during the war he was in, she'd actively have his legs just be removed just like that. However, you make a fair point.

I am sure she could have in the sense that she is powerful enough to do so, and the text does not give us enough information to say definitively that it did not occur, but that just plainly doesn't mesh with the narrative background of the Fates and the theory alone that this could've happened isn't enough to give this ability. Not saying you're taking that stance, but I think people in general get too caught up on possibility without keeping in mind that we're supposed to have good direct evidence.

 

[CloverDragon03]

It's neither strange nor borderline derailing to bring up potential other instances of Biological Manipulation in a thread trying to remove the ability, no.