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I mean Basalt gets higher results I guess, and can be done in game...
I'm kinda against using the dragon destroying blocks altogether, since we don't have a clue what the method is so can't reasonably make a calc on it.
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Minecraft Low 7-C Downgrade
- Thread starter Starter_Pack
- Start date
- Status
I'm kinda against using the dragon destroying blocks altogether, since we don't have a clue what the method is so can't reasonably make a calc on it.
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True tbh it’s a weird method of getting their Ap.
I would much rather powerscale to find a reasonable way to scale the ender dragon and not try to calc weird feats.
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I'd say At least Building level, possibly City Block level works for boss durability.
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Can you explain your reasoning?
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,594
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Shouldn’t they be at least Large Building level? Since (In Hard) The Wither can take ~10 Regular Creeper explosions and The Ender Dragon can take ~13 Regular Creeper explosions
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Good point. Quite frankly, "Building Level, possibly Large Building Level" actually seems pretty reasonable, given that Steve can still damage The Ender Dragon, but Creepers also don't nearly one-shot them and chip damage on a High 8-C Durability individual is hardly the most absurd thing I've seen.
Who wants 8-C Durability for bosses, who wants 8-C, possibly High 8-C, who wants 8-C, possibly 8-B, and who wants 8-B?
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In terms of Creeper scaling, note that the damage that Creepers are stated to deal as a maximum on the wiki is really more theoretical, as you'd have to essentially be inside the mob itself for the attack to deal that much damage. I've tested this more than I'd like to admit, and I could consistently get Endermen to survive Creeper explosions, with a little bit of health remaining, despite the fact that Creeper explosions are supposed to do 43 damage to an Enderman's 40 HP. That was when a Creeper + Enderman were within the same block too, so I doubt they could get physically any closer. It's a similar case for charged creepers, where they can't do their maximum theoretical amount of damage even when in point-blank range to the opponent, and another reason why hit point scaling is wack. Also, the Ender Dragon takes essentially 1/4 of the damage dealt if hit anywhere except its head, which means Ender Dragons should be able to take multiple Charged Creeper and even Wither explosions without dying.
In terms of Ender Dragon AP, I feel like the argument for using Netherite blocks was missed. The Ender Dragon is programmed not to be able to destroy End Stone, Obsidian and Iron Bars because these are blocks native to the main end island. Netherite Blocks, being a block that is as durable as Obsidian (or at the very least capable of tanking charged creeper explosions like Obsidian) can be destroyed by the Dragon. There's other examples of this too - it can destroy Iron Blocks but not the far less durable Iron Bars. End stone bricks, which should be comparable to end stone both in terms of the time it takes to mine and common sense, can be destroyed by the Ender Dragon.
If people have problems with using Basalt for the calcs, which would probably invalidate 8-B results, then that's a separate problem. However, I see no problem with the theory of the previous boss scaling.
In terms of Ender Dragon AP, I feel like the argument for using Netherite blocks was missed. The Ender Dragon is programmed not to be able to destroy End Stone, Obsidian and Iron Bars because these are blocks native to the main end island. Netherite Blocks, being a block that is as durable as Obsidian (or at the very least capable of tanking charged creeper explosions like Obsidian) can be destroyed by the Dragon. There's other examples of this too - it can destroy Iron Blocks but not the far less durable Iron Bars. End stone bricks, which should be comparable to end stone both in terms of the time it takes to mine and common sense, can be destroyed by the Ender Dragon.
If people have problems with using Basalt for the calcs, which would probably invalidate 8-B results, then that's a separate problem. However, I see no problem with the theory of the previous boss scaling.
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Agreed. Too many assumptions to be made here, especially when The Ender Dragon doesn't actually hit nearly as hard as even an uncharged creeper, much less a charged one.
8-B Durability, I don't personally believe, but I'm willing to compromise with since I can see the logic behind it and it makes sense.
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Ender Dragon's calcs aside, it can destroy blocks that charged creeper explosions can't. And saying that the Dragon has some sort of passive hax that destroys all blocks it comes into contact with sounds like far more of an assumption than the Dragon destroying blocks through strength.
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I know this, I've not been on the side of the dragon being higher than charged creepers for a while now AP-wise?
We have absolutely no idea what kind ofndestruction the Dragon performs, so the feat is unquantifiable.
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I feel like I'm speaking out of turn as I'm not a Minecraft specialist by far but...
1. What about Minecraft Dungeons? Do we consider it canon to the base game? If it is, there are some things that are worthy of consideration. I have some links, if it helps!
2. I always felt that the Silverfish feat isn't 9-A. The way I look at it from what I remember playing, the entire block is changed by the Silverfish living within. It felt like it had, in previous times and over an unspecified period, dug into the block and made its lair within. The block's structual integrity would have been already compromised, so I'd be hesitant to consider it 9-A. It probably wouldn't change much as there are other 9-A feats, I think, but...
1. What about Minecraft Dungeons? Do we consider it canon to the base game? If it is, there are some things that are worthy of consideration. I have some links, if it helps!
2. I always felt that the Silverfish feat isn't 9-A. The way I look at it from what I remember playing, the entire block is changed by the Silverfish living within. It felt like it had, in previous times and over an unspecified period, dug into the block and made its lair within. The block's structual integrity would have been already compromised, so I'd be hesitant to consider it 9-A. It probably wouldn't change much as there are other 9-A feats, I think, but...
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From what I've heard in this thread I'm unsure, but I believe they're separate continuities or such.
As for the silverfish point, I believe that's been brought up in the last, I can remember what the conclusions on those discussions were tho.
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I'd like to add- if other people haven't already- that the Ender Dragon can't destroy Endstone, even though regular TNT can, meaning the Enderdragon's block deletion is probably not AP related
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They are likely similar in size to Ghast fireballs, to my knowledge. More support for 8-C.
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They're exactly the same, in fact (minus the fire)- a power of 1
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Okay. I do remember seeing some 7-C stuff on Minecraft Dungeons from bosses and specific items, so if you guys want it, I can later post the relevant stuff.
The main problem I see is that it is an assumption. Imo, a logical one, but still an assumption. Still, I think it is a good thing to consider.
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if im remembering correctly vaporization was used with the enderdragon because it completely destroys water
the enderdragon being unable to destroy end stone, obsidian, and iron bars is game mechanics, they made it so it couldn't destroy those since if it could it would destroy the whole end island, im pretty sure it just phases through them
I dont see how calcing the enderdragon destroying blocks not from the end is a problem
I would like to see these 7-C Minecraft dungeons things
the enderdragon being unable to destroy end stone, obsidian, and iron bars is game mechanics, they made it so it couldn't destroy those since if it could it would destroy the whole end island, im pretty sure it just phases through them
I dont see how calcing the enderdragon destroying blocks not from the end is a problem
I would like to see these 7-C Minecraft dungeons things
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The method is completely unknown, it could be hax for all we know
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what? why would it be hax? so should the enderdragon get touch based existence erasure and everything in Minecraft that can survive at least 1 hit from it get resistance to existence erasure
thats a joke if you couldn't tell
thats a joke if you couldn't tell
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Would you like me to quote calc group members to you on this?(Yes, Mr._Bambu is one)
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sure?
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Just that, thought this was discussed more but hey, I only skimmed through
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that doesnt mention the water stuff, I dont really know if destroying water without a trace is enough to justify vaporization but I think that was the reasoning
though its at least pulverization (blocks the dragon destroys dont drop right?)
though its at least pulverization (blocks the dragon destroys dont drop right?)
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Hmmm, might work
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What we know about the Ender Dragon: It is from the End, a separate dimensional space from the overworld and home to the teleporting Enderman. It flies around a particular island, and can apparently phase through the material present on the island. Whenever it moves through materials not native to the island, it disappears.
Would BFR not be a feasible explanation for this behavior?
Would BFR not be a feasible explanation for this behavior?
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I guess that would work but thats also just a theory with no backing
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actually, that doesnt work, because thats objectively not what happens, thats not implied anywhere or programmed into the game in any way, you cannot find blocks the dragon destroys in the end, all we know is that the dragon can destroy any block without a trace except the ones that are in the end because mojang realized if it could then the final boss fight wouldn't work, it probably counts as game mechanics that the enderdragon cant destroy the island, especially since it phases through iron bars but can destroy any other form of iron
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Yall, the game mechanics part is how the Ender Dragon destroys overworld blocks, not how it doesn't destroy Endstone and Iron Bars. (Although technically, both are game mechanics if you want to be semantic about it, but the point is that the Ender Dragon originally did not destroy blocks, but it does now because it makes code easier. It's to prevent folk from locking the dragon in place.)
From the Minecraft Wiki: (here)
From the Minecraft Wiki: (here)
From TVTropes: (here)
Eden_Warlock99
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Eh, not really a discussion, so I think this could be closed, but I'm still puzzled by the Silverfish thing I commented on earlier.
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The changes still need applying, so I suppose we can wait until those are done to close this.
The Silverfish thing makes a certain amount of sense, there are gameplay features which could disprove stuff regarding integrity and stuff like this I suppose, I believe Silverfish Stone has the same hardness value in the game, and may take longer to mine too (Or it may take less time lol, I know that it's different in some way). There's also the small point of graphics, stone looks the same whether the silverfish is in it or not, it would have been simple to give the block a slightly different texture once a silverfish enters it, granted this would ruin the surprise element.
I personally believe that the silverfish calculation is fine as it is.
The Silverfish thing makes a certain amount of sense, there are gameplay features which could disprove stuff regarding integrity and stuff like this I suppose, I believe Silverfish Stone has the same hardness value in the game, and may take longer to mine too (Or it may take less time lol, I know that it's different in some way). There's also the small point of graphics, stone looks the same whether the silverfish is in it or not, it would have been simple to give the block a slightly different texture once a silverfish enters it, granted this would ruin the surprise element.
I personally believe that the silverfish calculation is fine as it is.
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
VS Battles
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Silverfish stone takes longer to mine. I don't like the whole "integrity" argument since like... Silverfish can just burrow into normal stone, iirc, in like a second, and leave immediately afterwards.
Silverfish are fine.
Silverfish are fine.
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Oh, I didn't know about that of the hardness staying the same, I thought it became harder to mine by pickaxe but easier by hand, which would imply some change in the block physiology (As it would imply it was easier to dig it out by the hands than by pickaxe, similar to how, say, wood is easier to cut with an axe than with a pick), but if it isn't the case, and even it was, Silverfish still being able to do the feat almost instantly... It should be fine, then!
Thanks for answering. It was something that was bugging me for awhile.
Thanks for answering. It was something that was bugging me for awhile.
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