MH Monsters Ability and Tier Revision

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

New Abilities and Key additio

Everyone:

Resistance to Disease Manipulation (Every monster has a power to overcome frenzy virus)

Sound Manipulation (Via very powerful roars)

Rage Power (One of the main characteristics of the large monsters is that they get stronger when enraged)

Tetsucabra:

Oil Manipulation (The scales of a Tetsucabra is used mainly for camouflage inside caves and on them is a special oil that holds heat)

Resistance to Heat Manipulation (Able to hold heat using an oil)

Lagiacrus:

Status Effect Inducement (Can induce blights like thunderblight)

Jade Barroth:

Pain Manipulation (The claws of Jade Barroth can induce very severe pain)

Brachydios:

Resistance to Explosion Manipulation (His armored shell is built to protect himself from his own explosive blasts)

Resistance to Heat Manipulation (His skin protects himself from extreme heat and cold)

Raging Brachydios:

Longevity (Immortal Reactor keeps him alive for longer amount of time than other monsters)

Deviljho:

Enhanced Senses (Has a good senses to compensate his poor eyesight)

Heat Manipulation (His body secretes very high body heat)

Pain Manipulation (The damage and pain further increases the muscle strength)

Absorption (By cannibalism, they can absorb other Deviljho's dragon energy)

Rathalos:

A new key. Destruction Wyvern Rathalos. It will be comparable to regular Rathalos.

Dreading Rathalos:

Resistance to Light Manipulation (Shown to be resistant to flash bombs)

Zenith Rathalos:

Light Manipulation (Can create light using their scales)

Diablos:

Regenerationn (High-Low; Able to grow their horns back to normal)

Massacre Diablos:

This should be changed to Bloodbath Diablos. That's the official name.

Thunder Lord Astalos:

The name is wrong again. It's Boltreaver Astalos.

Dalamadur:

Large Size (Type 3; The skeleton seen in Rotten Vale covered the whole ecosystem)

Lifting Strength Revision
Rathalos has shown to lift Anjanath, a Class 25 feat. I believe every middle-high/top of the food chain should be scaled to this. Non-Elder Dragons of course. Likes of Diablos, Zinogre, Gore Magala and other formidable foes alongside heavy hitters like Uragaan should scale.

At the bottom however, should scale to Great Jagras who can lift himself after swallowing Aptonoth whole, which is a Class 10 feat. Great large monsters and bottom and middle of the food chain should scale to this.

ED-Level however, I can't find one, but I think they are definitely stronger than Rathalos, so I think they are At least Class 25.

Dangerous First-Class Monsters should be Class T. Dire Miralis can sink an entire island with its strength.

TL;DR:

Bottom of the food chain: Class 10

Middle/Top of the food chain: Class 25

ED-level and EDs: At least Class 25

DFCMs : Class T

Small Monster Tier and ED-level monster scaling discussio
Small Monster like Ukantor and future small monsters are currently 10-B. I think this is wrong. Likes of Jaggis can easily bite down and suck newborn hunter's blood. They are also shown to have Peak human Physical Characteristics like Ukantor who can dig and throw rocks at high speed. I believe they are 9-C at least.

Kirin's thunderstorm is calc'd at 7-A and every ED should scale to it. 7-A is pretty consistent lore-wise, Dalamadur can erase mountains with power alone but the problem is, Kirin is minor ED. He can be even fight against in Low-rank in the latest entry and generally treated like the worst of the bunch. Major EDs like Ceadeus has a better feat, destroying an island by using horns alone and Dalamadur who can create crustal movements. True EDs like Kushala Daora are said to create hurricanes, which is a 6-C feat at least according to other profiles. Not to mention there are two major ED monsters currently in 6-B I believe we need to split the scaling from Minor EDs and ED-level monsters like Molten Tigrex, Deviljho, Rajang, Kirin and possibly Vaal Hazak to Major and True EDs like Teostra, Kushala Daora, Nergigante, Ceadeus, Dalamadur and Chameleos. It should be:

Minor and ED-level: At least 7-A, likely 6-C

Major and True EDs: At least 6-C, likely higher/6-B

Discuss!

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Tetsucabra's boulder, which it can pick up with its mouth, is Class 100. I'd say Jaggi are 9-C to 9-B, also. Finally, Elder Dragons being "At least 7-A, possibly 6-C" is fine with me (though baseline Kirin stays at 7-A for obvious reasons).

Also, what is the 6-B calc for the major Elder Dragons?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Lol, I was about to comment on how that new type of Rathalos looks just like Acnologia but then I saw that they were doing a collab with Fairy Tail and it was intentional.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

No, just Dalamadur and Zorah alone. No one is 6-B besides them. Though The Hunter (Monster Hunter) can possibly scale to the High-rank key.

What are 9-B feats of Jaggis? I can only see 9-C.

Class 100 for Top, 10 for bottom then.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Jaggis harming baseline Hunters at all. Hunters can tank hundred meter+ falls and walk it off.

Tetsucabra is fodder tier though?

We probably shouldn't scale off of Zorah because we don't actually kill him. Dragonator weapon, should it get a page, could probably be Country level though since it harms Zorah a fair amount.

Dalamadur... what is their 6-B feat?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Crustal movements, huh. I guess that's good enough for 6-B. Dalamadur being bigger than any other ED might make that non-scalable though.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Bottom: Class 100

Top: At least Class 100

ED: At least Class 100, likely far higher

I think this should do.

So fodders like Ukantor, Jagras and Jaggis are 9-B.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yeah, that'll do.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Lol, I was about to comment on how that new type of Rathalos looks just like Acnologia but then I saw that they were doing a collab with Fairy Tail and it was intentional.

LoL there's Diablos collaboration with Gilgamesh and Brachydios with Evangelion. Monster Hunter loves crossovers.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I fought Behemoth from Final Fantasy a few days ago before a dog literally destroyed my PS4

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

They're going to collaborate for more. And don't forget to teach that dog a lesson.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That dog's owner is fixing the PS4 or getting a new one so I assume they're handling it

No amount of new PS4 is gonna bring back all of my Monster Hunter and Bloodborne saved data though so fml

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Well, you need to git gud then. Good luck restarting that to farming and ****-you bosses ovo

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

The justification for Brachy's resistance to Explosion Manipulation seems questionable. Like, it can clearly tank its own explosions, but other explosions caused by weapons and barrel bombs still notably hurt it.

I am reluctant on the Resistance to Disease Manipulation because there are many monsters that don't actually overcome the Frenzy Virus, but are instead infected with it and can no longer control themselves. The only monster that can control it/overcome it are those that have "Apex" variants. Elder Dragons are totally immune to the Frenzy Virus from what I remember, however.

How would we go about figuring out what the "minor Elder Dragons" are? All we really know is that Kirin is one of them, and most others seem to not be "minor Elder Dragons". Oddly enough, Oroshi Kirin has a 6-C calc lol

Friendly reminder, we still need to calc that Kushala Daora feat where it disperses a massive snow storm that spans the horizon in roughly a single second.

Also damn Mr. Bambu, sorry to hear that.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

inb4 MH and DBZ crossover with a Shenron skin for Dalamadur and a Super Shenron skin for the variant of Dalamadur

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Oroshi Kirin is a deviant, which are encountered later. Not a minor ED. (I did the 7-A Kirin and 6-C Oroshi Kirin calcs myself).

Could you also bring me that Kushala feat in like video form? Can't remember if you did before, I can probably get that done rn.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

[[1]] Here it is again

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Everyone has power to overcome frenzy virus by attacking, the infected and died are those monsters that are not Savage enough to overcome it. That's the reason why apex monsters exists and hunters can overcome it as well, it has effect on you when you don't act and overcome it if you can.

I'm actually not sure how one can classify as minor ED actually. We all know that Kirin is one of them.

I think I saw that the parts that have chemicals are the ones that are resistant. That is why he can punch explosion without hurting itself.

I'm outta here for few hours. I'm gonna grind for accessories.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Alright, fair enough. I suppose it is fine then.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Welp.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Welp.

That should scale to True Elder Dragons, mainly Chameleos, Kushala Daora, Teostra and Lunastra. It's also possible to put Nergigante there since he has turf war with Teostra, ending in tie.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

(Vaal Hazak too boyo, he's in the trio with Teostra and Kushala in the new title) Though actually that might be a supporting feat in of itself. Rotting Vale is a country sized area and Vaal Hazak is attributed with putting the Effluviam there.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Possibly. Nergigante and Vaal Hazak should be possibly Low 6-B for this.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Should be noted that I THINK I once read something about Rajang being able to go up against Kushala Daora? If I can find that statement, I'll post it here.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Found it.

[[1]] According to this, Bazelgeuse and Deviljho possess the power to fight back against Kushala Daora, and Kushala is even threatened by Rajang at times.

Although, in fairness, this ALSO says that Tigrex can occasionally threaten this monster, which makes no real sense since it is not an Elder Dragon Level Monster lul

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Guys who can fight True EDs and dragons who can fight that monster will create a chain scale. It's pretty nice to see Low 6-B Rajang. It can only be said canonically or ecologically though unless something like turf war is involved. Unless it's not ED-level.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

So wait, question

If Rajang DOES scale to this based off of the information that Rajang and Deviljho (Rajang's rival) can fight back against and hurt Kushala Daora… why doesn't Kirin scale to this in some degree for hurting Rajang in that cutscene I posted? The gap in their power is even greater now, and it would be unlikely for Kirin to really hurt Rajang if their gap in power was that great.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

That's why the major EDs are At least 6-C, possibly Low 6-B. Kirin should be At least 7-A, likely 6-C. They're both at 6-C, but they have other tiers in them. Also it's possible to scale Molten Tigrex for Kushala calc.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Now that I think about it, Rajang shouldn't scale. It can only hurt Kushala but not able to threaten its position on the food chain. Goddamit, scaling is getting tricky.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

If Rajang is capable of hurting Kushala (Which it and Deviljho are basically stated to be capable of), that should be plenty justification to scale Rajang to Kushala. It doesn't have the threaten its position on the food chain iirc

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

So I messaged Darkanine about this, and he seems to be in favor of scaling Kirin directly to Kushala Daora and Rajang (Meaning 6-C and/or Small Country Level+ Kirin), regarding the 7-A calc that Mr. Bambu did as more of a supporting feat rather than a display of Kirin's max power.

I could ask him to comment on here though, if everyone would like that.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I would, purely because Kirin is consistently shown to be the bottom rung of the game as far as EDs go. I'll be away all day, though.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

I mean even if it is the weakest Elder Dragon, it is still referred to as being just as powerful as other Elder Dragons, as I've mentioned before. But I will ask Darkanine to give input though.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

You can still be weaker than someone and still hurt/stagger them. It means you're still in their rough level of power, but still weaker. I think it could scale but not all the way, unless the evidence of it being ludicrously weaker is far more consistent and blatant than the examples of it being roughly in the same league.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

[[1]] On here it says that Kirin's power is on par with other Elder Dragons, indicating that it is as powerful as Kushala Daora and other Elder Dragons (who now scale to a Small Country Level+ feat).

If Kirin is Mountain level, like Mr. Bambu claims, then it would be equal to 0.01251063829787234% of the Small Country Level+ power that scales to Rajang, as Rajang is able to threaten and harm Kushala Daora and would therefore scale to roughly the same level as it.

Even if we went to the Island Level result for Kirin, and compared that to the new and current Small Country Level+, that would only be roughly equal to .08% of the Small Country Level+.

I'd assume that this is too huge a gap in terms of power considering that Kirin was able to harm and stagger Rajang faster than a Hunter, and yet Hunter gets scaled directly to these feats whereas Kirin has not been scaled to them.

Suggesting that Kirin is that much weaker goes against a clear lore statement and makes no sense imo.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Wait, so all of the EDs are going to be Low 6-B?

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Honestly though, did we ever come up with any other Elder Dragons besides Kirin that would be counted as one of these "lesser Elder Dragons" and thus be set at 7-A? Because to me it really just seemed like Kirin was the only monster that was gonna get this treatment.

Regardless, Kirin should be at Low 6-B alongside other monsters such as other Elder Dragons, Deviljho, Rajang and Bazelgeuse (Also Hellbalde, since Hellblade Glavenus is a rival to Rajang and Deviljho, plus its mountain vaporizing feat is casual as it could do so with a single swing of its tail).

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

I think At least 6-C, possibly Low 6-B is fine for all EDs if Kirin is there.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Honestly I'm more in favor of simply keeping them at Low 6-B since they don't overlap with clearly stronger monsters, and their 6-C feats are largely extremely casual (Hellblade vaporizing a mountain in one swipe, the 6-C calc that Mr. Bambu made, Ceadeus being able to sink islands by merely rubbing its horns into them).

Although if the majority are in favor of At least 6-C, possibly Low 6-B, then I'll go with that I suppose.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

At least 6-C, possibly Low 6-B should be in effect. Disregarding any of the weird scaling in the verse, we have multiple 6-C feats and one Low 6-B feat.