Metroid V: To Infinity and Beyond

[JJSliderman]

Then they literally dont matter?

It matters cuz the Phazon actually reached the Chozo to begin with; so it’s a feat for the Phazon.

So? You should know by now phazon isnt a universal amp that just gives everything.

Sure but if Samus is literally using the Phazon from the Leviathan to fight with, and the Leviathan Phazon is what triggered it, then Samus should get it.

So? As above, and, it didn't even suck all of it, not even close actually, it's why the planet is dying off.

It was the initial burst of Phazon that triggered the feat, so I imagine it would end up having enough regardless.

Because it would literally have to to reach bozos in a higher-D plane? You CANT reach HDE via physical 3D movement, ya realize that yes?
There was 100% some weird fucky inter-D hax going on, otherwise it'd have never reached them even if it WAS infinite.

Okay then it’s immeasurable instead of infinite via Phazon just transcending the concept of time.

Dude it could be repeated 100 times, it'd be an outlier because she just like, isn't? Consistently THOUSANDS of anti-feats.
Gameplay, lore, even plot, everything ever enforces she's explicitly finite, and you're arguing nah she's infinite due to a vague feat that's almost 100% just range that she scales to because she just so happened to have a suit formed by a negligible infinitesimal amount of that same substance. Who then goes on to fight the very much finite Meta Ridley.

Bro come on man....

I mean sure, I guess you can argue that only Samus when boosted by Leviathan Phazon directly is scaling to bypass the Meta issue. Either way, fraction of infinite/immeasurable is still infinite/immeasurable.

Phantoon also isn't infinite, and hyperspace is super ultra not infinite (takes about 2h to warp to Zebes, from the same galaxy).

Phantoon by virtue of being an entity whose body cannot fit inside infinite 3-D space is infinite by default.

But the hyperspace aspect is another reason why I’d still argue this key has merit, Chozo Ghosts would upscale any hyperspace feats by virtue of them treating space and time as an illusion they transcended the need of, so they and Leviathan Phazon boosted entities would scale to all the hyperspace ship feats.

Yeah, via her beam? if you picked up a handful of phazon, and didnt instantly die to omega space aids, and tossed it, would that toss be infinite? No, obviously.

Her beam is shooting out Phazon, it’s called Hypermode. Like the Hypermode in corruption that was Samus shooting out Phazon. Plus, Samus could react to Metroid Prime’s essence that was overloaded with Phazon.

That's EXACTLY the problem, why does one adhere but NOT the other? They should both be a straight line, but charged isn't, and if charged breaks that rule, that tells us non-charged being straight, isn't because it's light, but just because that's how the beam fires, while also being a knock against actual light given, well, they're the same thing, both need to qualify, if one breaks rules then both break rules because it's the same.

And yet ultimately the charged variant goes at exactly the same speed and still moves forward straight if uninterrupted.

The LoA my dude, is everything BUT actual light.

The LoA also gives you the ability to ride along light beams for fast travel, is that not “actual light”?

Yeah except the game describes a bunch of stuff as light that isn't photons, in fact, the fact it energizes the light crystals, which isnt actual light might be an issue.

It’s, crystals? Like a prism? The light refracts through the crystal prism to create the light shield.

Fyi im not saying it isnt light, im saying we need more proof still, just being called light will never be enough unless we see that shit come from a real light source.

A source like, the light of Aether, which provides actual sunlight equivalents to the planet?

 

[Yasuda_144]

Phantoon by virtue of being an entity whose body cannot fit inside infinite 3-D space is infinite by default.

That's just not how higher dimensions work though, and it's been like years since we've treated them that way. It'd be like saying I'm infinite since I can't fit within infinite 2D space.

It's just higher dimensional range and nothing more, if a 2D substance could somehow affect a 3D object it self-evidently doesn't have to cross infinite 2D distance or anything analogous to do so. The same applies to higher dimensions as well.

 

[JJSliderman]

Sure, but in this case Phazon would probably at least exceed the speeds achievable in hyperspace due to transcending the concept of space-time and tagging the Chozo who had also done that, when hyperspace is still abiding by some conventional space/time/distance rules.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So, what general tiering are we expecting for Samus now? Tier 7 to 6?

 

[Armorchompy]

Tier 6 for the stronger keys (6-B probably but chariot hasn't finished the calc for that yet), tier 7 for in-betweeners like legendary power suit probably, tier 8 for the weakest ones (like the pre-gravity suit fusion keys, I've got a High 8-C calc for the BOX and an 8-A one for Nightmare), 4-C for white holes. ZSS is probably 9-B physically, scaling off Joey's feats, there's a possibly 9-A one but I'm not sure how to handle it since it's sort of indirect in how he tanks it

 

[Yasuda_144]

Would the "10% battle capacity" statement be usable for saying that Basic Fusion Suit = 1/10 of Legendary Varia suit or is it too vague?

Iirc the difference between the Legendary Power and Varia suits isn't ever displayed in any quantifiable way besides "it's stronger by a vague but significant amount", ditto for the Power Suit and the Fusion Suit (excepting the statement itself).

Even with no upgrades beyond just the Missiles, Fusion Suit Samus managed to beat Arachnus X, who's stronger or at least equal to the one that somewhat threatened Power Suit Samus in Samus Returns, so it wouldn't be too farfetched.

 

[Armorchompy]

Would the "10% battle capacity" statement be usable for saying that Basic Fusion Suit = 1/10 of Legendary Varia suit or is it too vague?

Iirc the difference between the Legendary Power and Varia suits isn't ever displayed in any quantifiable way besides "it's stronger by a vague but significant amount", ditto for the Power Suit and the Fusion Suit (excepting the statement itself).

Even with no upgrades beyond just the Missiles, Fusion Suit Samus managed to beat Arachnus X, who's stronger or at least equal to the one that somewhat threatened Power Suit Samus in Samus Returns, so it wouldn't be too farfetched.

I think there's an argument but personally I don't really agree, Fusion Sam is canonically threatened by low tier enemies (both ADAM and the manga one-shot confirm this, latter says she's unlikely to survive certain areas of the ship, latter just shows her getting hurt by them) and them scaling to 1/10th LS Varia is a bit weird. The 3x Super Missile bit also would imply she's at 30% of her full power when she gets it, but even as she grows much stronger than that by the mid/late game she can't ever scratch the SA-X until she gets what, Plasma Beam? so that's weird too.

The Samus Returns Prima guide says Arachnus was empowered by the Spring Ball, however that works, so if you wanna take that into account it might've been stronger in that game. It's also worth questioning if he was even a challenge to Samus, especially considering that back in Metroid II he's not even a boss, just some weird one-off enemy.

 

[Yasuda_144]

Also, just to be sure, Zero Suit Sam is gonna be scaling to the Paralyzer in terms of dura, given she can take hits from standard Space Pirates that are barely even affected by its fully charged version, right?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Also, just to be sure, Zero Suit Sam is gonna be scaling to the Paralyzer in terms of dura, given she can take hits from standard Space Pirates that are barely even affected by its fully charged version, right?

She can also survive being hit by it due to the Chozo ghost thing reflecting it back at her.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Hey guys, I came back from Vacation and from taking a break from Metroid. Just completed Metroid Prime Remastered on hard mode and I loved the entire journey...except for Meta Ridley's stupid ass tackle attack, ***** so dumb.

Also, since Metroid Prime absorbs the Phazon Suit into itself at the end of Prime 1, could one argue that Prime 2 Dark Samus' AP could be Metroid Prime + Phazon Suit Samus' AP combined, or nah?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Hey guys, I came back from Vacation and from taking a break from Metroid. Just completed Metroid Prime Remastered on hard mode and I loved the entire journey...except for Meta Ridley's stupid ass tackle attack, ***** so dumb.

Also, since Metroid Prime absorbs the Phazon Suit into itself at the end of Prime 1, could one argue that Prime 2 Dark Samus' AP could be Metroid Prime + Phazon Suit Samus' AP combined, or nah?

I mean, possibly? Metroid Prime was basically on death's door there so it's possible that it also acted more like a revival catalyst to help her stay alive rather than amp herself.

 

[Armorchompy]

Also, since Metroid Prime absorbs the Phazon Suit into itself at the end of Prime 1, could one argue that Prime 2 Dark Samus' AP could be Metroid Prime + Phazon Suit Samus' AP combined, or nah?

The MP2 description for DSam 1 says that she's just got an enhanced version of the Varia suit going on, so I dunno. It's not impossible but we don't know enough about the process of the resurrection

BTW calcs are going alright, we've done most of them, all that's left is a few LS ones and one speed feat from Joey that should scale back to ZSS. Don't think anybody was asking but I thought i should give an update since it's been a while, don't want people to think the revisions are cancelled

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

The MP2 description for DSam 1 says that she's just got an enhanced version of the Varia suit going on, so I dunno. It's not impossible but we don't know enough about the process of the resurrection

BTW calcs are going alright, we've done most of them, all that's left is a few LS ones and one speed feat from Joey that should scale back to ZSS. Don't think anybody was asking but I thought i should give an update since it's been a while, don't want people to think the revisions are cancelled

Can't wait to start making matches with them.

 

[Yasuda_144]

I'm guessing that pretty much everyone who's currently 5-B is gonna be 6-C, possibly Low 6-B based off of the explosion feat Chariot calculated, right? And Power Suit Samus and those on that level would scale to the 7-C volcano feat.

 

[JJSliderman]

Yeah, for now.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I think we're only waiting on one more calc to be figured out before the next CRT is made.

 

[Keeweed]

Dang I thought she would be 6-B, I know barely any 6-Cs. Though that’s just me musing, it’s so strange to see Samus brought down to earth in terms of her stats after all this time.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I actually prefer it this way since most of the verses I rep are in this ballpark of power.

 

[Keeweed]

That’s good to hear on your end. Look forward to the matches you make then.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Yoo finished Metroid Dread a couple days ago and damn did they freaking cook with this game, arguably the most refined game in the entire and if someone said it was their favorite, I would fully understand. Honestly loved how Samus felt when controlling her, the smoothest she's ever been, and I really like the combat and moveset available. Honestly the only issue I had with the game is that it sort of feels linear at times (with how they limit what you can do or where you can go) but as the game progresses and you gain more and more power ups that slight linearity goes away. God this franchise cooks so hard...how do they do it..

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

I found it funny how the Wave Beam was the last beam you can gain in Dread while in almost all other games it's one of the first.

 

[Chariot190]

Yoo finished Metroid Dread a couple days ago and damn did they freaking cook with this game, arguably the most refined game in the entire and if someone said it was their favorite, I would fully understand. Honestly loved how Samus felt when controlling her, the smoothest she's ever been, and I really like the combat and moveset available. Honestly the only issue I had with the game is that it sort of feels linear at times (with how they limit what you can do or where you can go) but as the game progresses and you gain more and more power ups that slight linearity goes away. God this franchise cooks so hard...how do they do it..

Dread actually has a lot of early sequence breaks but they kind of hard to do, but, theyre intentional. Kraid has two quick kill methods if ya get bombs or flash early as the obvious one.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Dread actually has a lot of early sequence breaks but they kind of hard to do, but, theyre intentional. Kraid has two quick kill methods if ya get bombs or flash early as the obvious one.

Oooh

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

Oooh

You can also obtain the screw attack early, which makes the Escue fight trivial as it's vulnerable to it.

 

[TyphonEX]

How is it an outlier if the Chozo being beyond space and time was repeated 3 times and we have confirmed higher dimensional entities like Phantoon and hyperspace in other parts of the franchise. And like, yeah Samus is firing Phazon at Metroid Prime’s essence to kill it, Metroid Prime’s own Phazon actually.

Isn't that from the non-canon retconned version of Chozo lore that contradicts current lore in multiple instances?

I think there's a 6-B-ish (yet to be calced, could be higher or lower) feat in S&J where she tanks a massive nuke, so that at minimum.

Do we have any finished Metroid calcs right now for AP?

 

[Armorchompy]

Do we have any finished Metroid calcs right now for AP?

I'm actually working on the thread to apply all of them right now, I'll post it whenever the last few of them are eval'd.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I'm actually working on the thread to apply all of them right now, I'll post it whenever the last few of them are eval'd.

Based.

 

[TyphonEX]

I'm actually working on the thread to apply all of them right now, I'll post it whenever the last few of them are eval'd.

What tier are those calcs?

 

[Armorchompy]

See for yourself

Metroid - Applying new feats & calculations

It's been a while since the last thread, but we got all the feats approved and so we can finally start applying the downgrades that happened a few months ago. In this thread we'll be replacing basically every feat, and then in the next one we'll do Samus' updated P&A- to then finish things with...

vsbattles.com

obligatory @JJSliderman @DarkDragonMedeus @SomebodyData tags since they might want to comment

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

See for yourself

Metroid - Applying new feats & calculations

It's been a while since the last thread, but we got all the feats approved and so we can finally start applying the downgrades that happened a few months ago. In this thread we'll be replacing basically every feat, and then in the next one we'll do Samus' updated P&A- to then finish things with...

vsbattles.com

obligatory @JJSliderman @DarkDragonMedeus @SomebodyData tags since they might want to comment

Just a minor note, SomebodyData has officially confirmed he is retired and would prefer not to get involved in any future VSBW related topics for the verse unfortunately.

 

[Armorchompy]

My apologies, I didn't know that.

 

[TyphonEX]

See for yourself

Metroid - Applying new feats & calculations

It's been a while since the last thread, but we got all the feats approved and so we can finally start applying the downgrades that happened a few months ago. In this thread we'll be replacing basically every feat, and then in the next one we'll do Samus' updated P&A- to then finish things with...

vsbattles.com

To be honest, I disagree with the country level durability calc. Is it OK if I comment in here?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

To be honest, I disagree with the country level durability calc. Is it OK if I comment in here?

It's a CRT, not a Staff Discussion.

 

[Armorchompy]

To be honest, I disagree with the country level durability calc. Is it OK if I comment in here?

sure, I suppose

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So what's next to do aside from apply the new abilities? I hope it's fixing the X Parasite Profile.

 

[Chariot190]

So what's next to do aside from apply the new abilities? I hope it's fixing the X Parasite Profile.

uhm, idk. We got the rel upgrade, abilities and stuff I dont think been updated yet. We gotta do Ridley and Kraid. If X is that dogass, i could maybe do it when I have time if Armor isn't. We should have all the scans, and I know there's a MHS movement feat for them too.