Metroid V: To Infinity and Beyond

[JJSliderman]

Then they literally dont matter?

It matters cuz the Phazon actually reached the Chozo to begin with; so it’s a feat for the Phazon.

So? You should know by now phazon isnt a universal amp that just gives everything.

Sure but if Samus is literally using the Phazon from the Leviathan to fight with, and the Leviathan Phazon is what triggered it, then Samus should get it.

So? As above, and, it didn't even suck all of it, not even close actually, it's why the planet is dying off.

It was the initial burst of Phazon that triggered the feat, so I imagine it would end up having enough regardless.

Because it would literally have to to reach bozos in a higher-D plane? You CANT reach HDE via physical 3D movement, ya realize that yes?
There was 100% some weird fucky inter-D hax going on, otherwise it'd have never reached them even if it WAS infinite.

Okay then it’s immeasurable instead of infinite via Phazon just transcending the concept of time.

Dude it could be repeated 100 times, it'd be an outlier because she just like, isn't? Consistently THOUSANDS of anti-feats.
Gameplay, lore, even plot, everything ever enforces she's explicitly finite, and you're arguing nah she's infinite due to a vague feat that's almost 100% just range that she scales to because she just so happened to have a suit formed by a negligible infinitesimal amount of that same substance. Who then goes on to fight the very much finite Meta Ridley.

Bro come on man....

I mean sure, I guess you can argue that only Samus when boosted by Leviathan Phazon directly is scaling to bypass the Meta issue. Either way, fraction of infinite/immeasurable is still infinite/immeasurable.

Phantoon also isn't infinite, and hyperspace is super ultra not infinite (takes about 2h to warp to Zebes, from the same galaxy).

Phantoon by virtue of being an entity whose body cannot fit inside infinite 3-D space is infinite by default.

But the hyperspace aspect is another reason why I’d still argue this key has merit, Chozo Ghosts would upscale any hyperspace feats by virtue of them treating space and time as an illusion they transcended the need of, so they and Leviathan Phazon boosted entities would scale to all the hyperspace ship feats.

Yeah, via her beam? if you picked up a handful of phazon, and didnt instantly die to omega space aids, and tossed it, would that toss be infinite? No, obviously.

Her beam is shooting out Phazon, it’s called Hypermode. Like the Hypermode in corruption that was Samus shooting out Phazon. Plus, Samus could react to Metroid Prime’s essence that was overloaded with Phazon.

That's EXACTLY the problem, why does one adhere but NOT the other? They should both be a straight line, but charged isn't, and if charged breaks that rule, that tells us non-charged being straight, isn't because it's light, but just because that's how the beam fires, while also being a knock against actual light given, well, they're the same thing, both need to qualify, if one breaks rules then both break rules because it's the same.

And yet ultimately the charged variant goes at exactly the same speed and still moves forward straight if uninterrupted.

The LoA my dude, is everything BUT actual light.

The LoA also gives you the ability to ride along light beams for fast travel, is that not “actual light”?

Yeah except the game describes a bunch of stuff as light that isn't photons, in fact, the fact it energizes the light crystals, which isnt actual light might be an issue.

It’s, crystals? Like a prism? The light refracts through the crystal prism to create the light shield.

Fyi im not saying it isnt light, im saying we need more proof still, just being called light will never be enough unless we see that shit come from a real light source.

A source like, the light of Aether, which provides actual sunlight equivalents to the planet?

 

[Yasuda_144]

Phantoon by virtue of being an entity whose body cannot fit inside infinite 3-D space is infinite by default.

That's just not how higher dimensions work though, and it's been like years since we've treated them that way. It'd be like saying I'm infinite since I can't fit within infinite 2D space.

It's just higher dimensional range and nothing more, if a 2D substance could somehow affect a 3D object it self-evidently doesn't have to cross infinite 2D distance or anything analogous to do so. The same applies to higher dimensions as well.

 

[JJSliderman]

Sure, but in this case Phazon would probably at least exceed the speeds achievable in hyperspace due to transcending the concept of space-time and tagging the Chozo who had also done that, when hyperspace is still abiding by some conventional space/time/distance rules.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So, what general tiering are we expecting for Samus now? Tier 7 to 6?

 

[Armorchompy]

Tier 6 for the stronger keys (6-B probably but chariot hasn't finished the calc for that yet), tier 7 for in-betweeners like legendary power suit probably, tier 8 for the weakest ones (like the pre-gravity suit fusion keys, I've got a High 8-C calc for the BOX and an 8-A one for Nightmare), 4-C for white holes. ZSS is probably 9-B physically, scaling off Joey's feats, there's a possibly 9-A one but I'm not sure how to handle it since it's sort of indirect in how he tanks it

 

[Yasuda_144]

Would the "10% battle capacity" statement be usable for saying that Basic Fusion Suit = 1/10 of Legendary Varia suit or is it too vague?

Iirc the difference between the Legendary Power and Varia suits isn't ever displayed in any quantifiable way besides "it's stronger by a vague but significant amount", ditto for the Power Suit and the Fusion Suit (excepting the statement itself).

Even with no upgrades beyond just the Missiles, Fusion Suit Samus managed to beat Arachnus X, who's stronger or at least equal to the one that somewhat threatened Power Suit Samus in Samus Returns, so it wouldn't be too farfetched.

 

[Armorchompy]

Would the "10% battle capacity" statement be usable for saying that Basic Fusion Suit = 1/10 of Legendary Varia suit or is it too vague?

Iirc the difference between the Legendary Power and Varia suits isn't ever displayed in any quantifiable way besides "it's stronger by a vague but significant amount", ditto for the Power Suit and the Fusion Suit (excepting the statement itself).

Even with no upgrades beyond just the Missiles, Fusion Suit Samus managed to beat Arachnus X, who's stronger or at least equal to the one that somewhat threatened Power Suit Samus in Samus Returns, so it wouldn't be too farfetched.

I think there's an argument but personally I don't really agree, Fusion Sam is canonically threatened by low tier enemies (both ADAM and the manga one-shot confirm this, latter says she's unlikely to survive certain areas of the ship, latter just shows her getting hurt by them) and them scaling to 1/10th LS Varia is a bit weird. The 3x Super Missile bit also would imply she's at 30% of her full power when she gets it, but even as she grows much stronger than that by the mid/late game she can't ever scratch the SA-X until she gets what, Plasma Beam? so that's weird too.

The Samus Returns Prima guide says Arachnus was empowered by the Spring Ball, however that works, so if you wanna take that into account it might've been stronger in that game. It's also worth questioning if he was even a challenge to Samus, especially considering that back in Metroid II he's not even a boss, just some weird one-off enemy.

 

[Yasuda_144]

Also, just to be sure, Zero Suit Sam is gonna be scaling to the Paralyzer in terms of dura, given she can take hits from standard Space Pirates that are barely even affected by its fully charged version, right?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Also, just to be sure, Zero Suit Sam is gonna be scaling to the Paralyzer in terms of dura, given she can take hits from standard Space Pirates that are barely even affected by its fully charged version, right?

She can also survive being hit by it due to the Chozo ghost thing reflecting it back at her.