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This is extremely vague, unless you have more context.This is a nice information
I got this screenshot on telegram, so i can't really tell you the exact context or whatsoever. I know it's from the last chapter of the game, though.This is extremely vague, unless you have more context.
Do you know the name of the chapter, at least? There's just not a lot that this screenshot gives us inherently.I got this screenshot on telegram, so i can't really tell you the exact context or whatsoever. I know it's from the last chapter of the game, though.
YesMaybe a question with an obvious answer, but are Another Bible and Last Bible Special considered canon / part of the cosmology?
So the one who would get affected the most in that hypothetical would be primal satan and Nahobino.1. Well, if apocalypse YHVH was no longer the Great Will, I think there wouldn't be any distinction between the SMT II and SMT IV YHVH (correct me if i'm wrong). This would mean that Aleph would scale to Nanashi, and Nahobino would be the absolute strongest SMT protagonist.
2. Stephen still vastly outscales Mater Lucifer because the latter is still tied to the Mandala System and the infinite cycle of transmigration.
3.SMT V's Satan would become the strongest SMT demon fr.
I tried searching online, but I couldn't find anything. I also asked on Telegram, but the best result I got is that the statement comes from the latest chapter that was released a few days agoDo you know the name of the chapter, at least? There's just not a lot that this screenshot gives us inherently.
Tbf that was the theoretical version. As far as we know, the Great Will is still the same as Nocturne and IV A.So the one who would get affected the most in that hypothetical would be primal satan and Nahobino.
I forgot Stephen literally graced the existence of the great reason. So no change would allow matter lucy to be on the same level.
It’s wild to think the hierarchy extends so much higher than Yhvh, the most prominent and involved god in the verse.
He is a demon after all, a very powerful demon, but nonetheless not different from the other godsThat aside, it's weird to think he's below so much in the current cosmology. Nyx, Philemon/Nyar for example.
His Covenant lets him remain at the top tho, but even that can be undone. I forget just how high in the hierarchy that makes him.He is a demon after all, a very powerful demon, but nonetheless not different from the other gods
Yeah as the great will of the universe YHVH is virtually untouchable. There are only few entities that scale above One true God YHVH iirc.His Covenant lets him remain at the top tho, but even that can be undone. I forget just how high in the hierarchy that makes him.
I think I know you from somewhereJust wanted to say that I'm very glad the first thread of the revisions (at least, the update of the 1-A justifications) has been published. I just got into Tsumi no Batsu a few days ago so it was coincidental to see arguments taken from that manga right as I was reading it x)
I'm glad the thread also addressed supposed anti-feats. I assume that the upcoming threads are going to do the same
Question: What is the mandala system really?
I made an imgur link.does anyone have a link to the scans that imply that inner universe = Monado Mandala (or inner universe = collective unconscious)? I've been looking for pictures or footage but I haven't been able to find it
(this is regardless to whether or not the interpretation is correct, I just want to see the statement itself)
No, there's really no basis. I don't even know of an actual Greek or Roman conception of "Chaos" which even remotely resembles The Great Reason.Genuine question: In megami tensei, could the Greek figure of "chaos" be compared to the great reason?
Understandable. Thank youNo, there's really no basis. I don't even know of an actual Greek or Roman conception of "Chaos" which even remotely resembles The Great Reason.
andAll of this is to ascertain if man’s souls, riddled with contradictions as they are, can evolve into something whole. You all showed that potential. If there were more like you, man could someday reach a perfect state than understood its purpose” - Philemon, Innocent Sin
And yet...“Thy reflection on the water’s surface: that is thy Brahman, the truth of the universe, which is in turn thine Atman. Thou thyself art the universe, and thine self is itself the light that illuminates the soul” - Virochana, Eternal.
Exactly, personas usually disappear after their users defeat. However A”k was just like….yeah, i was going to bring up "didn't maruki get absorbed by adam kadmon?" because i remember that we're supposed to be fighting full-powered adam kadmon himself and not just maruki with adam kadmon as his persona by the end of the game, so whether or not maruki had reached enlightenment was ultimately irrelevant
Firstly we have already seen what happens when the full potential of humanity faces Nyx(Makoto and the other protags reached this perfect state.),
Your response overlooks the main argument of the post and completely misses the point. Many people tend to power scale Maruki without fully considering his character or looking at the fightBiggest problem I have with people saying Maruki needing to attain enlightenment to summon Adam Kadmon is that simply is not how personas operate. People use the requisite of individualization to debunk Adam Kadmon off the premise that Maruki himself hadn’t obtained it.
That’s like saying in order to summon a death god (persona) you have to die, it’s simply not necessary to attain a persona’s state of being to summon it. If anything, it makes sense why Maruki would have to surrender himself to his persona to unleash its full potential. It’s because Maruki didn’t reach enlightenment that he couldn’t use A”K’s full power, which is rectified by fusing with him.
Tl;dr Maruki doesn’t need to reach enlightenment to summon A”K because that’s something inherent to the persona.
That’s like saying in order to summon a death god (persona) you have to die.
“Hence in its scientific usage the term “self” refers neither to Christ nor to the Buddha but to the totality of the figures that are its equivalent, and each of these figures is a symbol of the self.” - Psychology and Alchemy.
Makes sense that he wouldn’t be fazed, he’s already enlightened and transcendent. Also Joker did NOT “metaphorically” gain the universe arcana. It just didn’t make much of a difference because joker was already OP. He took the damn role of administration from Yaldabaoth and even gave it away. (Albeit subconsciously)
Dunno about everything else, but the Yaldy part is outright wrong. Maruki is stated to be beyond anything the Thieves have faced up to that point, and that was just with Azathoth.Maruki realistically isn't any stronger than Yaldy, especially not Nyar and even more so Nyx.
Live Thermite Reaction:Your response overlooks the main argument of the post and completely misses the point. Many people tend to power scale Maruki without fully considering his character or looking at the fight
Let's look at what actually happened in the fight.
He lost... Not only did he lose to a human, he lost to people who have not even found the Answer life. That's is quite literally step number one of achieving the universe arcana and obtaining the Potential of humanity.
Not to mention he gave it his all. Maruki realistically isn't any stronger than Yaldy, especially not Nyar and even more so Nyx.
No this is quite literally something entirely different and I'm not even implying that. I'm saying to achieve enlightenment you must go through the process of individuation and become an archetype of self, there are no short cuts through Personas. We have seen personas who should realistically be an archetype of the self, who aren't.
And lets play into your game, shall we? If Personas are your true self, then why didn't Maruki obtain enlightenment after fusing with A.K? Well it's simple, he didn't actually become enlightened nor did fusing with A.K make him an enlightened figure. His nature as an Archetype who exhibits a mythology makes him speak metaphorically, not factually.
Expect that didn't make Joker the world nor universe arcana, It made him the fool. As for why I say he obtained it metaphorically, It's because he never once used the world nor did he ever use in any future installments (Which Yu has done).
I know Maruki is stronger, but to say much stronger or second to only the Axiom is just wrong.Dunno about everything else, but the Yaldy part is outright wrong. Maruki is stated to be beyond anything the Thieves have faced up to that point, and that was just with Azathoth.
His character is irrelevant to him summoning A”KYour response overlooks the main argument of the post and completely misses the point. Many people tend to power scale Maruki without fully considering his character or looking at the fight
I mean, ok? Him losing isn’t an anti feat against him but a feat of the PT. By your logic Philemon and Nyarlathotep shouldn’t have lost because they are the creators of human thoughts and thus “encompass” any feat of human thoughts. How did that go? It’s for damn sure never stated you needed enlightenment to summon A”K.Let's look at what actually happened in the fight.
He lost... Not only did he lose to a human, he lost to people who have not even found the Answer life. That's is quite literally step number one of achieving the universe arcana and obtaining the Potential of humanity.
That’s just wholly false. A”K should be at the very least multiplicatively stronger than universe arcana Makoto. Considering the former is “all human evolution” and the latter is just 1.Not to mention he gave it his all. Maruki realistically isn't any stronger than Yaldy, especially not Nyar and even more so Nyx.
Can you show me proof saying attaining enlightenment is required to summon said personas? You even quoted Vairocana, who can be summoned by the p2ep cast. Who was stated to not be enlightened yet. When was it stated you needed enlightenment to use A”K?No this is quite literally something entirely different and I'm not even implying that. I'm saying to achieve enlightenment you must go through the process of individuation and become an archetype of self, there are no short cuts through Personas. We have seen personas who should realistically be an archetype of the self, who aren't.
Don’t know, don’t care. Find me a scan saying it’s required to attain enlightenment to summon A”K and your argument would actually stand. That’s literally all I ask. A”K is enlightened, he could summon him. Vairocana is enlightened, P2EP cast could summon him. None of these humans were enlightened so it’s safe to say it’s not a prerequisite.And let’s play into your game, shall we? If Personas are your true self, then why didn't Maruki obtain enlightenment after fusing with A.K? Well it's simple, he didn't actually become enlightened nor did fusing with A.K make him an enlightened figure. His nature as an Archetype who exhibits a mythology makes him speak metaphorically, not factually.
Ah, that cool scene with Sataneal, absolutely wonderful.Expect that didn't make Joker the world nor universe arcana, It made him the fool. As for why I say he obtained it metaphorically, It's because he never once used the world nor did he ever use in any future installments (Which Yu has done).
His character is irrelevant to him summoning A”K
I mean, ok? Him losing isn’t an anti feat against him but a feat of the PT. By your logic Philemon and Nyarlathotep shouldn’t have lost because they are the creators of human thoughts and thus “encompass” any feat of human thoughts. How did that go? It’s for damn sure never stated you needed enlightenment to summon A”K.
That’s just wholly false. A”K should be at the very least multiplicatively stronger than universe arcana Makoto. Considering the former is “all human evolution” and the latter is just 1.
Hmm... I see nothing in you... It seems you no longer need your fortune told... All potentials are within you... You can go
anywhere, become anything... The universe is within you... And
you are within the universe... You and the universe are one and
the same... That is my belief... - Fortune-Teller
Can you show me proof saying attaining enlightenment is required to summon said personas? You even quoted Vairocana, who can be summoned by the p2ep cast. Who was stated to not be enlightened yet. When was it stated you needed enlightenment to use A”K?
Don’t know, don’t care. Find me a scan saying it’s required to attain enlightenment to summon A”K and your argument would actually stand. That’s literally all I ask. A”K is enlightened, he could summon him. Vairocana is enlightened, P2EP cast could summon him. None of these humans were enlightened so it’s safe to say it’s not a prerequisite.
All of this is to ascertain if man’s souls, riddled with contradictions as they are, can evolve into something whole. You all showed that potential. If there were more like you, man could someday reach a perfect state than understood its purpose” - Philemon, Innocent Sin
Here’s joker gaining the world arcana BTW. How often he uses it is irrelevant.
By your logic Philemon and Nyarlathotep shouldn’t have lost because they are the creators of human thoughts and thus “encompass” any feat of human thoughts. How did that go? It’s for damn sure never stated you needed enlightenment to summon A”K.
where the arguments originally come from isnt a rebuttalReddit debunk time.