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Megami Tensei General Discussion Thread

I have a question, when Lucifer said that his power was equal to God's in Apocalypse, was it an exaggeration? It seemed a little weird for him to be equal to God when the main party struggled a lot more against YHVH compared to Lucifer. Idk if this is explained in some blog I don't want to get spoiled for other games I haven't played yet
We don't take that statement literally, as it's heavily contradicted by most other entries. You can read more about it here, though that thread does contain heavy SMTV spoilers.
 
I have a question, when Lucifer said that his power was equal to God's in Apocalypse, was it an exaggeration? It seemed a little weird for him to be equal to God when the main party struggled a lot more against YHVH compared to Lucifer. Idk if this is explained in some blog I don't want to get spoiled for other games I haven't played yet
I believe it just referring to yhvh manifestation head or whatever it call, not quite reffering to yhvh true form. Same as krishna statement aswell. Hence how he can equal to yhvh while himself just part of satan, and also satan just mere aspect of yhvh.
 
low 1-A must necessarily transcend a high 1-B cosmology, and 1-A must be greater than low 1-A

And here is an explanation that low 1-A handles a transfinite number of layers
 
low 1-A must necessarily transcend a high 1-B cosmology, and 1-A must be greater than low 1-A

And here is an explanation that low 1-A handles a transfinite number of layers
Yes, but basically if a verse gives enough context that some structure is infinitely transcendent above the rest of the cosmology no matter how "layers" are put one atop the other, this too qualifies for 1-A and don't necessarily the verse needs a High 1-B structure. That's the case for SMT because in Digital Devil Saga novel the protagonist states that he reached the Atzluth after he "gained so many dimensions that he eventually transcended the concept of dimension".
 
No, in the scan it says Serph uses only 3 dimensions as an example saying that it is beyond the concept of dimension, I agree with being "beyond the concept of dimension" being a 1-A feat because concept is everything we define, the description itself, so if something is beyond the definition of dimension it should be 1-A, but on the wiki this rule does not apply and the verse must necessarily describe that the character exists beyond infinite dimensions even though it does not exist on the verse, as in case of warhammer 40k where the realm of chaos is described as a non-geometric space so that it cannot be defined by a finite or infinite number
 
No, in the scan it says Serph uses only 3 dimensions as an example saying that it is beyond the concept of dimension, I agree with being "beyond the concept of dimension" being a 1-A feat because concept is everything we define, the description itself, so if something is beyond the definition of dimension it should be 1-A, but on the wiki this rule does not apply and the verse must necessarily describe that the character exists beyond infinite dimensions even though it does not exist on the verse, as in case of warhammer 40k where the realm of chaos is described as a non-geometric space so that it cannot be defined by a finite or infinite number
SMT is safe to keep it's 1-A rating for now according to the wiki standards.

I dunno anything about Warhammer 40K tho.
 
No, in the scan it says Serph uses only 3 dimensions as an example saying that it is beyond the concept of dimension, I agree with being "beyond the concept of dimension" being a 1-A feat because concept is everything we define, the description itself, so if something is beyond the definition of dimension it should be 1-A, but on the wiki this rule does not apply and the verse must necessarily describe that the character exists beyond infinite dimensions even though it does not exist on the verse, as in case of warhammer 40k where the realm of chaos is described as a non-geometric space so that it cannot be defined by a finite or infinite number
There isn't something about this in the Tiering System page, however if you go to the Tiering System FAQ page, you will see that they permit just what I have said in my comment.
 
No, in the scan it says Serph uses only 3 dimensions as an example saying that it is beyond the concept of dimension, I agree with being "beyond the concept of dimension" being a 1-A feat because concept is everything we define, the description itself, so if something is beyond the definition of dimension it should be 1-A, but on the wiki this rule does not apply and the verse must necessarily describe that the character exists beyond infinite dimensions even though it does not exist on the verse, as in case of warhammer 40k where the realm of chaos is described as a non-geometric space so that it cannot be defined by a finite or infinite number
Make a CRT then.
 
After this has concluded, I think the wording on profiles should change so it includes the context that it transcends any dimension no matter how high it is
I didn't read the whole CRT but I saw someone else explaining it didn't, but it would still transcend any number of hierarchies
The evidence referenced is insufficient to establish that they transcend any dimension no matter how high it is.
 
I have a few questions

I noticed that SMT if lacks any profiles. From what I understand when looking at the profiles, both the protagonist and Hazama would scale to 1-A (according to current profiles) because of Angra Mainyu / Ahriman being the penultimate boss, right? Hazama also defeated Zurvan, who is more powerful than Angra Mainyu according to Zurvan, who stated that Angra Mainyu looked to rule time as well, and he described himself as the God of Time.

I also notice that Nyarlatothep appears as an enemy in the final dungeon of SMT if. I assume there would have to be a different key for it than the Nyarlatothep from Persona, right?

Ringo from Soul Hackers 2 would also be 1-A because of Sandalphon, and later Shiva and Parvati (and Ardha), right?

Lastly, are there any plans to cover Last Bible or Demi Kids?

I know the Megami Tensei verse is in current revision which may affect the tiers afterwards but I wanted to ask since I was curious if I am understanding the scaling properly
 
Seeing that this verse is getting looked at and revised, my question might be seen as stupid, but here goes
Because a lot of complicated stuff flies over my head, would anyone be able to explain why SMT (and by extension, Persona) is so comfortably set in 1-A, in a simplistic as way possible?
God damn, is this verse confusing (also sorry if im potentially necro-posting lol)
 
Seeing that this verse is getting looked at and revised, my question might be seen as stupid, but here goes
Because a lot of complicated stuff flies over my head, would anyone be able to explain why SMT (and by extension, Persona) is so comfortably set in 1-A, in a simplistic as way possible?
God damn, is this verse confusing (also sorry if im potentially necro-posting lol)
As per this CRT, there are 1-A realms in Megami Tensei. Certain characters scale directly to or above those realms. Other characters scale to or above those characters.
 
Been playing nocturne pretty fun. Gonna get to Persona 5 Royal after although I heard I'd be pretty disappointed with the combat going into it straight after nocturne.
 
Ok so I rage quit SMT Nocturne not because of difficulty but because apparently there was free DLC that was important to the game while I was like 12 hours in and made me lose motivation. Decided to refresh myself with Persona then get back and start a new game on nocturne with the DLC. 27 hours in and Persona 5 has been wonderful and really enjoying the confidant system which makes the game IMO what it truly is.
 
Ok so I rage quit SMT Nocturne not because of difficulty but because apparently there was free DLC that was important to the game while I was like 12 hours in and made me lose motivation.
yeah if you actually want to actually access the stuff everyone raves about, the dlc is mandatory. Cause it's an either/or choice between Dante and Raidou, but both include the stuff needed for extras. At least one of them is free.
 
Beat the game
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Can someone please explain to me the deal with the CU and Mementos?

When Yaldabaoth merged Mementos, Azathoth states that the sea of hearts and reality have become one. Is Mementos the CU? Did both Mementos and the actual CU get merged at the same time?

At the end of P2: IS, you create an alternate timeline by using Cognition from the Sea of Souls (a figurative name for the CU), which is indistinguishable from what Maruki did with manipulating cognition using Mementos. This again brings up the question is Mementos the actual CU or did Maruki also take over the Sea of Souls?
 
Can someone please explain to me the deal with the CU and Mementos?

When Yaldabaoth merged Mementos, Azathoth states that the sea of hearts and reality have become one. Is Mementos the CU? Did both Mementos and the actual CU get merged at the same time?

At the end of P2: IS, you create an alternate timeline by using Cognition from the Sea of Souls (a figurative name for the CU), which is indistinguishable from what Maruki did with manipulating cognition using Mementos. This again brings up the question is Mementos the actual CU or did Maruki also take over the Sea of Souls?
Mementos is a realm within the collective unconscious (P5 calls it the "Metaverse.")

Mementos is also Yaldaboath's domain, so when he fuses reality with the sea of souls he would reasonably do so within said domain, which in this case is Mementos.
 
Is EMMA demiurge above maruki ? It was a threat to even the velvet room and was merging tree of knowledge with the world
 
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