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Medaka Kurokami vs Ashen

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Not really going by the Medaka Box standard of one. Superhuman Weapon Mastery like Unzen has is a skill, but the weapons are not. Ashen may be good at combat, but I would argue that even Unzen's squad have better weapon mastery then she does, and they are only Specials. Same with the members of the student council like Zenkichi (before he obtained his abnormalities). Zenkichi can ******* take apart a weapon nigh instantaneously and he doesn't even qualify for a skill.

If she saw the bullets, it may be possible for her to deduce, but she won't. She will only see the gun, and the gun is a normal ass 18th century pistol
 
TO be fair someone pulling a musket out of their pocket is pretty weird. I feel like a bullet that can kill futures of individuals on such a scale would qualify as abnormal enough for it to notify her analysis on some level. Pointing the barrel at her gives her line of sight to the bullet, but I don't know if her analysis works on that much of a twitchy level.
 
Going by what other people have said I assumed it was the moment they left the barrel, but judging by the profile it seems to be on hit. It doesn't change the result here, but someone who knows for sure should clarify for future matches where it might make a difference.
 
I was under the impression that the moment the primer is sparked death is set in stone? If it's on hit medaka can dodge though, which would contradict what we've been going by the whole time.
 
Apparently the bullets have some sort of auto-tracking, where they won't fail to hit their target so just dodging won't work. If the future destruction is on hit it still negates AF but Encounter might work...if only it could redirect damage of that level. Sadly it's showings aren't high enough for us to assume it could stop the effect of the Golden Bullets here. I'm still fairly confident that Medaka wins, but if it is only on-hit then it's another opportunity for her to either erase the bullets or destroy Ashen. Again, Medaka won't take the opportunity, but it might be useful information for future matches with the character.
 
Its more once the bullet gets activated that every single future dies, and its due to that that the bullet always strikes the heart basically. Technically the wording by the gunsmith who crafts the bullets implies it is either as soon as the bullet is crafted, or as soon as the primer is sparked, that all the "wrong" futures are eliminated but I went with the latter since it made more sense given how Ashen and The Captain carried out the mission to kill G
 
So it's closer to the firing of the bullet than the actual hit. That makes it much harder for Medaka to win, but still not technically impossible. Even so, I'm sticking with Ashen for my vote.
 
Wokistan said:
TO be fair someone pulling a musket out of their pocket is pretty weird. I feel like a bullet that can kill futures of individuals on such a scale would qualify as abnormal enough for it to notify her analysis on some level. Pointing the barrel at her gives her line of sight to the bullet, but I don't know if her analysis works on that much of a twitchy level.
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I was more joking on the "18th Century Pistol" thing, because the guns are heavily mixed and the Pistol that Ashen uses is iirc more along the lines of a revolver. The game actually has an extremely mixed weapon arsenal, because of how weird the setting is. The Noddy Doctors use lazer guns and electrical strikes, several characters use canons and gattling guns, The Threaded use Harpoons and cursed weaponry, Warlocks use magical attacks, etc.

I mean that is assuming she would even point it directly at Medaka, because she wouldn't need to. She could dead ass fire it at the ground and it would still end up in Medaka's heart. We don't actually know how she uses the guns because she never actually uses them on screen, we just know that she has several on her and has used them before to kill people. She ends up handing her revolver full of them to the protag since They know G personally

Also, side note. Not gonna claim that her analysis wouldn't work on the bullets if she saw them, because she would at least know the bullets have her name carved in them like a billion times and know something was up. I just wanted to through it out there that the gunsmith said these weapons were no big deal on his world and that basically every weapon worked by the same method and every weapon maker knew how to make such weapons. Just wanted to toss that out there because it blew my mind when i learned that
 
Yeah you know just your average everyday seemingly 2-A bullets no big deal here

Does ashen k ow that she has a silent aimbot on? Because if so, I'd have to go for her since it wouldn't surprise me for them to just fire it in their holster to negate the time loss of drawing. If she has to draw though I would still have to go for Medaka, because she can see in to the chaimbers and this analyze a strange bullet and at least get curious enough to punch the person who seems to have bullets made just for her.
 
Voting on that logic is still too speculative for me, seeing as we're not certain she can analyse it at all. At most she'd see it as someone using a weapon that shouldn't be able to hurt her at all.
 
Keep in mind, im not saying she goes straight into AF and bookmaker or something crazy, just that she hits the person who seems to have a weapon tailor made for her once and in the process incaps.
 
I kniw right lol. granted, in The House they trade higher dimensional objects like some slightly decently expensive collectors item, so I guess this world is ****** in more then one way kek

She does, cuz she specifically went to the gunsmith who made bullets like this. If she didn't know they did that before (maybe she just heard he was a great gunsmith), then she definitely did after because both the protag and her where there when he explained them. I honestly don't know if she could fire it while its still in her holster, but it seems fair
 
I know, I'm just saying she isn't guaranteed to be able to analyse the gun or bullets at all, seeing as last I checked it was only shown to help her understanding of how skills worked, and allowed her copy ability to function far better as a result. Saying "she can analyse skills, therefore she sees that the bullets are special and decides to stop the weapon holder" is based on the assumption that she'd be able to analyse the bullets at all. I find it more likely for Medaka to allow herself to die, not knowing it cannot be avoided or undone. As stated before, the bullets guarantee she will be hit so dodging also isn't an option.
 
Side note, if anyone has any good matches for this other A House of Many Doors character I'd love to see em. You've seem bullets that erase futures, now get ready for becoming an abstract song, weaponised partying, a shit ton of resistences, and a library of souls to manipulate. Lucetta Quetzl is her name, and good news, she actually looks like a women this time
 
  • Cal intensifies*
I mean, if she's aware that her bullets are dumb like that, guess I'll concede that as she's more likely to just fire whenever as opposed to actually aiming in a way that let's Medaka glimpse them, and her in character mindset sucks when you have people who actually have ways to permanently hurt the girl.

If you get into 4-C or B try the Deathsinger twins.
 
Taurus Aldebaran, cause it'd be at least the third time he punctured his own eardrums to avoid sound-based attacks, only for it to more than likely not work.

I only remember him doing that twice, but I don't doubt the massive amounts of Saint Seiya lore and media I am not privy to.
 
For deathsinfers? I don't think you really need to "hear" their deathsongs considering the whole killing abstract concepts deal.
 
Didn't see that rip

If you actually know somebody who may work feel free to tell me on my wall or something. Doing it here is derailing, unfortunately.
 
@Lapitus Against your character it'd be kinda like this match, where he either atomizes her instantly or she haxes. Aldebaran might actually stomp considering he's lightspeed and more than willing to destroy someone. I haven't kept up too well with SS lately so maybe not.
 
Deathsinger twins are The Daughters of Oryx. If you think they're a fair fight for your character then go for it.
 
Yeah,that's fine. I may go to sleep in a bit though.
 
I only suggested him as a joke honestly, sort of an in-joke for SS fans. Not particularly hard to get though, anyone whose read up to the Hades arc of the original manga would probably get it. It might be fair but I'd have to check their profile and his for a bit.
 
This was done even though no one even bothered to counter All Fiction eh?

You guys do know for the futures to "stay" gone the bullets would have to literally overpower all fiction right? And i literally see nothing here for that to happen.

All Fiction will just undo reality, there was a reality where Medaka had futures, we'r going back to that reality. For the bullets to work they would need to:

1. Overpower All Fiction (which ain't exactly happening as the bullets work on a "weakness" basis which doesn't exist for All Fiction).

2. Be immune to the laws of causality/flow of time. Which they are not.

3. Null All Fiction (which won't be happening due to the resistance)

Unless you can do either of those then keeping the futures gone ain't happening. @Iap you need to tell me which of these applies here.

@Vindictive I already explained Non Fiction is already part of Medaka's arsenal. And i already explained Causality Erasure and Existence Erasure don't work on the same level. Causality works on the whole timeline, while Existence Erasure does not, it's pretty easy to undo EE. Either way Medaka can deal with it. And again she doesn't need to erase the erasure, she just needs to erase the "firing of the bullet" which is merely an action.
 
Your evidence that AF is causality eraure that erases something from every instance of time it existed in before is weak at best. There are no actual statements or showings of it doing so aside from throwaway lines like Kumagawa saying things "never existed", which could be a translation error or a character bluffing/misunderstanding their own power. Saying that because Kumagawa sometimes says things he erased "never existed" means they actually literally never existed by the mechanics of his power is a stretch when it doesn't actually change anything else. Them remembering because "the skill name is all fiction therefore it's just making them fictional, so everyone magically remembers this thing that never existed" doesn't fix the problem that erasing something, even assuming everyone remembers it existing, would have a massive effect on the present.

You have no concrete evidence AF works the way you say, and Medaka doesn't know that timelines have even been destroyed here so why would she know to remove the cause of them being destroyed in the first place? And please actually prove that Medaka has Non Fiction, aside from just saying "well she must've copied it at some point". Kumagawa has been confirmed to never use it, as every person he makes the offer to refuses. He only seems to come up with the name after leaving, meaning she didn't hear that to copy it either. So, at what point during the story did she copy it? If your answer is "she could have heard of it from someone else after he left" isn't good enough.
 
Ok so first about the causality manipulation. It was explained in the databook thingy and also by Ajimu in the series. That All Fiction screws with the laws of causality (that's literally what she said). And in the databook thingy it said the same thing. And Kumagawa's saying throughout the whole series of "never happened" only complements the explanations. Also there is the fact that All Fiction has already been accepted by the wiki as causality manipulation so yeah. There goes that point.

About Medaka i already said Medaka's The End copies something perfectly, that is literally what The End does. Copying All Fiction at it's best/perfection means you also have access to Non Fiction because Non Fiction is literally something that comes out of "perfecting" all fiction (like Kumagawa did).
 
Just gonna toss this out there, Non-fiction isn't technically the same power as All Fiction cuz it was modified by Ajimu iirc. Its a modified version, similar to how theme song is a modified version of Unknown Hero or how Altered War God Mode is a modified version of Parasyte seeing, or how Medaka combined theme song into her war God Mode to create new forms
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
Just gonna toss this out there, Non-fiction isn't technically the same power as All Fiction cuz it was modified by Ajimu iirc. Its a modified version, similar to how theme song is a modified version of Unknown Hero or how Altered War God Mode is a modified version of Parasyte seeing, or how Medaka combined theme song into her war God Mode to create new forms
Click to expand...
No. It wasn't modified. All Fiction was just able to undo any of it's actions (which is not a big deal rly). No one ever said it was modified, besides Kumagawa had gone missing and Ajimu was not confirmed to be back so neither Shiranui nor Ajimu could have been the cause.

And again causality erasure =/= existence erasure.
 
What do you mean waiting? This match is already over, and your points have been addressed, but simply not to your liking. This should have been closed already, and we are under no obligation to humor you any further. However, I will add one last thing so you get some sense of closure

It doesn't matter whether All Fiction could undo the bullets or restore the futures or not, because All Fiction won't. The futures where All Fiction would have tried to undo the bullets do not exist. All Fiction works retroactively, as you have said, and there is no way to stop the bullets unless you do it proactively. Weighted Words or Scar Dead would have been a better choice. Even if you claim that All Fiction could somehow make the bullet miss Medaka's heart, that doesn't matter. We know Medaka can survive normally with without a working heart due to her style

Another thing you have claimed quite a bit is that, because the futures existed at one point, they can be restored. Here is the thing, even if she can somehow "Unfire" the bullet, those futures don't come back. Ashen is a Perennial, and Perenials cannot leave The House, so the fight must take place there. Fate exists in The House, and time is cyclical. Those futures never existed as soon as that gun was shot. Unfire the gun, and Medaka still dies in that exact same moment; none of her abilities can save her unless she never fires the gun to begun with. All Fiction will not save her, no kind of causality manipulation will, because she will drop dead anyway even if it is not by the bullet. All fiction may be able to erase an erasure, but it cannot erase a retroactive and proactive erasure that stops the erasure from ever being erased
 
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