MCU Tier 6 Upgrades?

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

The 72 gigaton Roche limit end was the accepted one although that was just the KE

 

[KLOL506]

The 72 gigaton Roche limit end was the accepted one although that was just the KE

I see

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

The 72 gigaton Roche limit end was the accepted one although that was just the KE

What was his durability in that calc for iron man?

 

[Newendigo]

It would be higher, as Oxygen and Nitrogen are both heavier than carbon, but we don't know percentages

What, why it would be higher?

The mass/weigh of the element doesn't really partake to its strength, it really all comes down to molecular bonding and geometry.

The fact that the Tesseract is a compound of three (gaseous) elements would actually make it weaker than most solid metals.

 

[KLOL506]

What was his durability in that calc for iron man?

AFAIK surface area knocked it down to something like 7-B but then DontTalkDT said this:

"I mean, on the stuff exploding directly into ones face thing I can't say anything helpful and not really put anything helpful on the page either.
That is a decision so ancient that even I barely remember.
Guess it goes in the same vein of us not really subtracting environmental damage from the power of an attack when we determine durability and that it is not too far of the actual result anyways. Basically another simplification for scaling.

As for the meteor thing... it kinda depends IMO.
If the meteor breaks apart on impacting the character and the parts that don't hit the character aren't slowed then yes.
If the meteor hits the character and its KE is mostly cancelled out on impact then the entire meteor should scale on the other hand.

In a case where the meteor stays intact on impact and the KE doesn't visibly get cancelled out things get difficult. In that case, the surface area isn't really what matters IMO. The impact energy isn't really "missing" the character, which is the idea we usually use for inverse-square rulings. Like, in an idealized scenario where the character stands on an indestructible floor it would need to take 100% of the impact, as the parts of the meteor that don't hit the character can't fly past it without the meteor breaking apart.
With a destructible floor, things get more difficult. The impact would press the character into the earth and then the impact is split between it and the earth that gets hit. If this were real-life physics I would say calculate the energy to cause the displayed amount of destruction to the floor, subtract it from the meteors KE and the result is the difference that the character being there made. However, in fiction, we have the trouble with the AoE not reflecting power.
So that makes that difficult. Personally, I would say that by The Rules of Fiction™ the character is probably comparable to the attack's power. Similar to how we would scale a character that gets hit by an energy beam and flung out of its path without absorbing 100% of the beam to the attackers AP. Maybe err on the side of caution and downscale a character by a tier if the AP was close to baseline.
That's my take at least."

So you'd need to calculate the destruction caused by the meteor. Then subtract that energy yield from the meteor's KE and the final result is what Iron Man tanked.

 

[Revan_Laha]

Also in Eternals: 500 Year War, a baby dragon restrained a Deviant which Ikaris couldn't kill. The same Deviant easily smashed a Tao Mandala too

 

[Revan_Laha]

Shang-Chi killed a much larger dragon, and WoG says that Shang-Chi can fight with MCU top tiers

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Just because it's a much larger dragon doesn't mean it's stronger. Are they even the same species? And can you prove them being larger equals stronger?

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Also in Eternals: 500 Year War, a baby dragon restrained a Deviant which Ikaris couldn't kill. The same Deviant easily smashed a Tao Mandala too

Said baby dragon was getting its ass kicked by that thing and only got the chance to attack after a holding back ikaris(didn’t want to destroy the wall or hurt the people) had an opening for it and then essentially pulled a kamikaze immediately and still couldn’t put it down. So this is kinda sus

 

[Hellbeast]

Huh dope
Also is there anything else from that Eternals comic?

 

[Dalesean027]

WoG says that Shang-Chi can fight with MCU top tiers

This isn't the case they don't outright say this at all and the only time he's been "put" on thier level was in a promotional trailer for the movie that hyped him up as being stronger than Endgame Thor and the other top tiers something which I'm pretty sure I don't need get into to explain especially when he strongest feat is low tier 7 as of rn

 

[Hellbeast]

This
It's like the situation with DCEU Shazam

Like ok sure, statement exists but he has no solid scaling to the top tiers yet

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

At best all he should get is possibly higher

 

[Dinobot1996]

I'm sure Shang-Chi will get better concrete scaling soon enough anyways.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

AFAIK surface area knocked it down to something like 7-B but then DontTalkDT said this:


So you'd need to calculate the destruction caused by the meteor. Then subtract that energy yield from the meteor's KE and the final result is what Iron Man tanked.

I mean the destruction part is kinda hard due to cinematic reasons, otherwise the whole battlefield would have been nuked and ruined the fight.

 

[KLOL506]

I mean the destruction part is kinda hard due to cinematic reasons, otherwise the whole battlefield would have been nuked and ruined the fight.

Eh, you can try your luck determining the mass compressed by the meteor via pixel-scaling, try your luck using compressive strength values or the KE via figuring how much distance the mass was compressed in, subtract it from the meteor's KE and then get the yield tanked by IM like that.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

The whole battlefield wouldn't necessarily be nuked because Iron Man tanked most of the energy.

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

via figuring how much distance the mass was compressed in, subtract it from the meteor's KE and then get the yield tanked by IM like that.

What would this even yield. would it be able to subtract even a megaton hell a kiloton?

 

[KLOL506]

The whole battlefield wouldn't necessarily be nuked because Iron Man tanked most of the energy.

Aye

 

[Qawsedf234]

Aye

The issue is that Thanos didn't throw just a single meteor. He threw thousands, plenty at the exact same speed of the Iron Man one with similar size.

Yet the battlefield wasn't nuked.

If you're trying to get KE from the meteor because Iron Man absorbed it all then you have to acknowledge that every single meteor should have enough power power level everything but didn't.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Eh, you can try your luck determining the mass compressed by the meteor via pixel-scaling, try your luck using compressive strength values or the KE via figuring how much distance the mass was compressed in, subtract it from the meteor's KE and then get the yield tanked by IM like that.

Yeah idn how to do any of that. I was just saying the meteor's impact destruction was small most likely for cinematic reasons. If you could direct me to someone who would be willing to calc it that would be great.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

At this point we should just give up on Tesseract crush feat since no calc members wanted to do the recalc

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

So what calcs besides Ikaris' cloud moving feat are good?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

At this point we should just give up on Tesseract crush feat since no calc members wanted to do the recalc

Pretty much (not to mention the feat would still be controversial even with a new calc I think)

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Alright, we can finally dropped out Tesseract crush feat 1000%

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

noooooooo

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Alright, we can finally dropped out Tesseract crush feat 1000%

The pain

 

[Newendigo]

So what are the rest of the feats that haven't been regarded?

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

The issue is that Thanos didn't throw just a single meteor. He threw thousands, plenty at the exact same speed of the Iron Man one with similar size.

Yet the battlefield wasn't nuked.

If you're trying to get KE from the meteor because Iron Man absorbed it all then you have to acknowledge that every single meteor should have enough power power level everything but didn't.

I don't think all of those meteors were similar size, when you see Spider-Man's meteors they were all his size, same with many of the meteors in Iron Man's shot. Plus, many of the later meteors are nowhere near as fast as the original one.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Bump

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Bump

 

[Newendigo]

So what are the rest of the feats that haven't been regarded?

Unless we start checking the validity of the rest of the feats, this thread won't go anywhere and will just be forgotten as another failed atempt at an upgrade.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

yeah but no one wants to do that

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Bump. Which feats have been agreed to use?

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

The Ikaris cloud feat I think?

 

[Hellbeast]

Yeah that seems agreed
So that and the WOG could mean we backscale the Avengers top tiers from Ikaris?

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

So the other feats are not valid?

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Hey lets take what we can get, higher into 6-C is still good. Also is their any reason we can't scale any characters to Surtur destroying asguard? I don't see how thats an outlier considering Thor can casually shake asguard with taps from Gungnir.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Shaking is far weaker than destroying

 

[KLOL506]

Also is their any reason we can't scale any characters to Surtur destroying asguard? I don't see how thats an outlier considering Thor can casually shake asguard with taps from Gungnir.

Destroying >>>>>>>>>> Shaking. The 6-B bust whacked Surtur.