[MCU] Surtur

[Marvel_Champion_07]

• Depowered Surtur shouldn't scale to Pre-Awakening Thor in speed. He got utterly blitzed and couldn't land a single blow on Thor. There was no "keeping up" throughout the whole fight, so Depowered Surtur's speed should just be Unknown
• For his AP and LS, Depowered Surtur should only have an "At most" rating, since he was barely pushing back Thor and he easily overpowered it seconds later. His Durability can stay as it is
• Eternal Flame Surtur shouldn't scale to Hela's speed since he didn't react to any of her attacks and didn't blitz her. He does have a statement of swimming his sword at Mach 40, so he can be High Hypersonic instead
• I don't know how reliable this is, so I don't expect this to get accepted, but Surtur claims that he cannot die until he fulfils his destiny of destroying Asgard at Ragnarok, which might be Immortality Type 8

EDIT:
After some discussion, another option for Depowered Surtur is to just reword the justifications of his AP, LS and Speed ratings:

Country level (His fire blast slowly pushed back Pre-Awakening Thor, who noticeably struggled and put in significant effort to overpower it)

Massively Hypersonic+ combat and reaction speed (Although significantly slower, he could still somewhat react to attacks from Pre-Awakening Thor)

Unknown physically, at least Class M with Fire Manipulation (His fire blast slowly pushed back Pre-Awakening Thor, who noticeably struggled and put in significant effort to overpower it)

Plus, Self-Sustenance Type 1, Magma Manipulation and Explosion Manipulation have no justifications and should be removed if Depowered Surtur have no feats of such. Though Eternal Flame Surtur could still have Vibration Manipulation for causing a fiery shockwave after driving his sword into Asgard

 

[LordTracer]

• Depowered Surtur shouldn't scale to Pre-Awakening Thor in speed. He got utterly blitzed and couldn't land a single blow on Thor. There was no "keeping up" throughout the whole fight, sos Depowered Surtur's speed should just be Unknown
• For his AP and LS, Depowered Surtur should only have an "At most" rating, since he was barely pushing back Thor and he easily overpowered it seconds later. His Durability can stay as it is

Looks good.

I don't know how reliable this is, so I don't expect this to get accepted, but Surtur claims that he cannot die until he fulfils his destiny of destroying Asgard at Ragnarok, which might be Immortality Type 8

Eh, I don’t think that’s enough to qualify.

 

[RoTt35]

The changes in speed, AP and LS are fine, I also think that his Eternal Flame key shouldn't scale to Hela's Relativistic+ speed since he didn't really react to any of her attacks and didn't blitz her like his profile states, she just rushed him but she had nothing to do. Neutral on Immortality

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I also think that his Eternal Flame key shouldn't scale to Hela's Relativistic+ speed since he didn't really react to any of her attacks and didn't blitz her like his profile states, she just rushed him but she had nothing to do

Added to the OP

 

[RoTt35]

Added to the OP

He could be High Hypersonic based on this statement from a VFX article that says he can brandish his sword at Mach 40

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

• Eternal Flame Surtur shouldn't scale to Hela's speed since he didn't react to any of her attacks and didn't blitz her. He does have a statement of swimming his sword at Mach 40, so he can be High Hypersonic instead

Big disagree with this

Hela was unable to get out of the way of a sword strike from him even when she knew it would be fatal to her

That constitutes as some degree of relativity to me otherwise she would have dodged it to save her life

Also Surtur DOES straight up dodge an attack from Hela

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Also Surtur DOES straight up dodge an attack from Hela

That was because the knockback of Hela's previous attack, not because Surtur reacted to it

 

[RoTt35]

Hela was unable to get out of the way of a sword strike from him even when she knew it would be fatal to her

That constitutes as some degree of relativity to me otherwise she would have dodged it to save her life

Hela reacted to the attack, she simply had nothing to do since Asgard would be destroyed along with her anyways even if she dodged the attack

Also Surtur DOES straight up dodge an attack from Hela

Surtur dodged that by accident by brandish his sword, he didn't react to the attack

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

That was because the knockback of Hela's previous attack, not because Surtur reacted to it

Watching frame by frame you can see it was directly aimed at his head

Even if you don't want to say that he did visably react to the attack and move in tandem with it

Hela reacted to the attack, she simply had nothing to do since Asgard would be destroyed along with her anyways even if she dodged the attack

Why would she not want to save herself in that scenario?

Why is the default assumption "She didn't react because Asgard was going to be destroyed, so she just decided to die" instead of "She didn't react to the attack because she couldn't react to the attack"

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Watching frame by frame you can see it was directly aimed at his head

Ah, I see what you mean. In that case, I'm neutral and will wait for other staff votes

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Also even if we did say he's slower, which the scene does imply, It still shows Surtur being somewhat relative to Hela's blades while they're moving

Aint no way in hell a High Hypersonic character is doing that to Relativistic+ attacks, the worst that happens is he downscales

Also same thing goes for weakened Surtur, though he was getting dogged on he still managed to react to a degree to the attacks and even attempted a sword strike during Thor's supposed "Blitz"

I see no reason to list it as unknown since we do have a degree of certainty of where it stands, that being below Thor but still able to react and attempt attacks against him, which is grounds for downscaling in my opinion

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

As for AP and LS for Weakened Surtur being at most?

I disagree as well

We see Thor struggle to a noticeable degree against Surtur's fire attack, in no way is it something he "easily overpowers"

Thor had the upper hand in speed and agility which was the main factor in the battle not that he had a massive AP advantage

Why would Surtur be weaker in AP than his own durability when that is the norm assumed for most characters?

The rating should stay as is IMO

 

[LordTracer]

Why would Surtur be weaker in AP than his own durability when that is the norm assumed for most characters?

AP doesn’t scale to durability by default, and that assumption shouldn’t be made unless the character has feats to suggest that it’s the case.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Why would Surtur be weaker in AP than his own durability when that is the norm assumed for most characters?

What LordTracer said. There are various characters that have higher Durability than AP

The rating should stay as is IMO

At the very least, the currently shit justifications should still be changed to something like this:

Country level (His fire blast slowly pushed back Pre-Awakening Thor, who noticeably struggled and put in significant effort to overpower it)

Massively Hypersonic+ combat and reaction speed (Although significantly slower, he could still somewhat react to attacks from Pre-Awakening Thor)

Unknown physically, at least Class M with Fire Manipulation (His fire blast slowly pushed back Pre-Awakening Thor, who noticeably struggled and put in significant effort to overpower it)

Also, Self-Sustenance Type 1, Magma Manipulation and Explosion Manipulation have no justifications and should be removed if Depowered Surtur have no feats of such

 

[Excellence616]

• Depowered Surtur shouldn't scale to Pre-Awakening Thor in speed. He got utterly blitzed and couldn't land a single blow on Thor. There was no "keeping up" throughout the whole fight, so Depowered Surtur's speed should just be Unknown
• For his AP and LS, Depowered Surtur should only have an "At most" rating, since he was barely pushing back Thor and he easily overpowered it seconds later. His Durability can stay as it is
• Eternal Flame Surtur shouldn't scale to Hela's speed since he didn't react to any of her attacks and didn't blitz her. He does have a statement of swimming his sword at Mach 40, so he can be High Hypersonic instead

I agree with this

• I don't know how reliable this is, so I don't expect this to get accepted, but Surtur claims that he cannot die until he fulfils his destiny of destroying Asgard at Ragnarok, which might be Immortality Type 8

Neutral

 

[Excellence616]

Also, Self-Sustenance Type 1, Magma Manipulation and Explosion Manipulation have no justifications and should be removed if Depowered Surtur are no feats of such

I agree with this too

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

AP doesn’t scale to durability by default, and that assumption shouldn’t be made unless the character has feats to suggest that it’s the case.

Which Surtur does

What LordTracer said. There are various characters that have higher Durability than AP

At the very least, the currently shit justifications should still be changed to something like this:



Also, Self-Sustenance Type 1, Magma Manipulation and Explosion Manipulation have no justifications and should be removed if Depowered Surtur are no feats of such

Agree with this rewording

 

[Syncornize]

• Depowered Surtur shouldn't scale to Pre-Awakening Thor in speed. He got utterly blitzed and couldn't land a single blow on Thor. There was no "keeping up" throughout the whole fight, so Depowered Surtur's speed should just be Unknown
• For his AP and LS, Depowered Surtur should only have an "At most" rating, since he was barely pushing back Thor and he easily overpowered it seconds later. His Durability can stay as it is
• Eternal Flame Surtur shouldn't scale to Hela's speed since he didn't react to any of her attacks and didn't blitz her. He does have a statement of swimming his sword at Mach 40, so he can be High Hypersonic instead

seeme fine

• I don't know how reliable this is, so I don't expect this to get accepted, but Surtur claims that he cannot die until he fulfils his destiny of destroying Asgard at Ragnarok, which might be Immortality Type 8

The MCU's Ragnarock should have the same concept as the real Ragnarock. A necessary and inevitable event, the prophecy that all gods fear.
(If there were statment or WOG to support this I would say it's perfect, but without that I would say it is a "maybe"or a "is likely")

The concept of Ragnarock is that even the gods are forced to face the fact that they cannot escape their fate. Despite their divine properties , they are indeed subject to the same fate as human beings: they too must die.
Surtur in particular embodies "the end" for Asgard. As long as Asgard exists he will inevitably be the one who brings it to its undoing.

Odin did,'t kill Surtur because he was unable to (he ripped him to pieces) but because he could not, Surtur was "protected" by prophecy. All Odin had left was to take away the eternal flame ( his true powers) from Surtur. No Asgardian god (Except Odin) can rival his true destructive power.

in case "possibly" immortality via Ragnarock or something like this should work?!

 

[Gasper]

Heavily disagree with immortality type 8, he died to thor and needed to be resurrected by the flame.

 

[Syncornize]

Heavily disagree with immortality type 8, he died to thor and needed to be resurrected by the flame.

I think you misunderstood. Surtur would have a certain kind of immunity until the fulfillment of a certain event in Ragnarock, as the "concept" to which he is bound ceases to exist.
Surtur's existence cannot be erased, as long as Asgard exists Surtur will also exist. Surtur can be "killed" that is, stopped in a conventional way. No matter what happens, he will erase Asgrad.

 

[Gasper]

I think you misunderstood. Surtur would have a certain kind of immunity until the fulfillment of a certain event in Ragnarock, as the "concept" to which he is bound ceases to exist.
Surtur's existence cannot be erased, as long as Asgard exists Surtur will also exist. Surtur can be "killed" that is, stopped in a conventional way. No matter what happens, he will erase Asgrad.

You can say that to all characters who have a destiny. Which we don't.
It's the same as "i can't be killed unless with this specific dager".

 

[Syncornize]

You can say that to all characters who have a destiny. Which we don't.
It's the same as "i can't be killed unless with this specific dager".

puppet argoment, the destinies that I have mentioned many times are figures of speech or events that can be modified/changed. Ragnarok is an event that cannot be altered in any way. Mine too was a rhetorical figure.

the comparison with danger is unclear

I simply meant that if it is provable that Surtur is linked to Asgard, it is valid

 

[RoTt35]

I don't know if it helps, but Odin stated that the universe forever moves toward Ragnarok, this being its nature. Although in the movie it was retconned to just Asgard being destroyed

 

[Eseseso]

Shouldn't Eternal Flame Surtur scale above the Tesseract since Hela indicated that the Eternal Flame was above the Tesseract?

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Shouldn't Eternal Flame Surtur scale above the Tesseract since Hela indicated that the Eternal Flame was above the Tesseract?

There's a different CRT for this. Imo, he should. But his death to Asgard's explosion (which is High 6-B at worst and High 6-A at best rn) is currently being used as a cap for most MCU characters

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Neutral on the Immortality, but Eternal Flame Surtur should still be relative to Hela speed-wise for reasons above.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Updated the OP with some more stuff

After some discussion, another option for Depowered Surtur is to just reword the justifications of his AP, LS and Speed ratings:
Plus, Self-Sustenance Type 1, Magma Manipulation and Explosion Manipulation have no justifications and should be removed if Depowered Surtur have no feats of such. Though Eternal Flame Surtur could still have Vibration Manipulation for causing a fiery shockwave after driving his sword into Asgard

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The OP looks good to me.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I've applied the changes, so this can be closed

 

[LordTracer]

Closing.